An Exceptional Entrepreneurship Playbook | Jack Delosa

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If you want to be exceptional, then by definition, you have to be the exception. And you can't be the exception while fitting into average concurrently. They're incompatible. If your day-to-day life or behaviors or habits ever look like everybody else's, then that's a sure signal that you need to change something. If and it is a big if, if you want to be exceptional. Great entrepreneurs are great entrepreneurs because they assume full self agency. There is no excuse. I started the Entourage in 2010 and

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became a college and entered that space so incredibly successfully. The Entourage has become Australia's largest education institution community of entrepreneurs. And by 2015, we had a community of about 300,000 business owners. Our growth curve was almost vertical. The government put a wrecking ball through the the the private space in education in Australia. Overnight, you know, 80% of our revenue stops coming in. >> How did you survive that? Like what was the next step out of that? I remember

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sitting there and I just said to myself, I do not accept this reality. You're an institution that supposed to help businesses succeed so you can't fail. >> If everything I'd ever learned was an inverse pyramid and it all rested upon one particular principle, what would that be? If everybody watching and listening to this just does this one thing, it will take them 30 seconds. it will improve their business 10x for the entirety of 2026. Let's go. This episode is brought to you by Wick

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Studio. Here at the agency podcast, we're building a community and we would love for you guys to be a part of it. So, we would love to hear from you. What are you enjoying the most? What would you like to see more of? And what do you think might be missing? Drop a comment. Make sure you subscribe. And now, on with the show. Jack, welcome to the Agency podcast. >> Thanks for having me, Dan. Good to be here, man. >> Dude, I'm excited to have you here. You excited to be here. >> Blown my mind for for for many years

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now, and it's it's a pinch myself moment to be able to sit here and uh finally get to pick your brain on all the crazy stuff that you've been able to accomplish. >> Straight back at you, brother. I love the office and the outfit and the team you got here. It's incredible. >> Thank you so much, man. It's been fun hanging out with you out there and cracking jokes and jamming. And um >> Toffee was definitely a highlight. Little >> Yeah, he's our new CEO.

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>> Nice. He's definitely in charge. >> The hairiest I've ever had. >> He's calling the shots. >> Yeah. We'll put a photo of top you up here so you guys can see. >> So Jack, you define identity as the story we tell ourselves about ourselves. >> When you look back at your career, what was the story you were originally telling yourself and what might that be now? >> I was fortunate enough to have parents that had a very empowering view of the

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world. My mother was a teacher. Um, and when I was about 5 or 6 years of age, my parents ran a not for-p profofit organization called Breaking the Cycle. And so they take long-term unemployed youth, like youth at risk off the street, out of jails, out of abusive homes. They put them through a 3-month training and personal development program, and then they'd facilitate them into employment. And so, because they could only see a finite number of young adults every year, they deliberately choose those from the most challenging

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of backgrounds. And even though they choose the most challenged kids, uh they were the best job placement agency. They were a lot more than that, but that's a kind of technical term. They were the best job placement agency for youth at risk in Australia. And so they were very, very good at what they did. Dad was the managing director. Mom was the head teacher. And so, you know, dude, I was like wagging primary school and high school to sit in mom's classroom. Um and as she taught personal development

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skills and employability skills and all of that kind of stuff. And so what I saw at a very young age was people coming into these programs sometimes literally half dead and from extremely traumatic pasts and then within a month or two uh you'd be looking at a a much more developed human being. And so it kind of taught me at a very young age that the traditional system doesn't work for the vast majority of us. You and I are definitely included in that. Um, and that it doesn't take much to encourage

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somebody to become the best version of themselves. And so that was the that was the very it was a very formative period for me and it really established my blueprint. Breaking the cycle was a not for-p profofit. And so when the Victorian government changed uh they changed the way they issued capital out to not for profofits, breaking the cycle was un unsuccessful in g gaining capital under the new regime. Uh and so the organization collapsed. And so I think that's where I get my commercial side

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from. I've always wanted to build businesses and organizations that make a meaningful difference. But I learned at a very young age, it better be financially sustainable. And and and it's best if it's really profitable because then you can spread your message and you can attract great talent and you're not relying on government handouts or anything. And I don't have anything against not for profofits today, but the path that I always chose was um to to build highly successful

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businesses in their own right while doing our best to make a positive impact. And so that's that's been the the kind of story that I've been telling myself and kind of I suppose hopefully demonstrating since a very young age. Man, >> when you when you think back of maybe that first moment when you realize what was maybe a key unlock for people that perhaps grew up with an underprivileged situation, what were some of the things that you realized and at what point did you really understand the the true

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intrinsic thing that needed to take place for someone to change their life? When I was about 28, I' just been listed on the it was BRW back then, I think. BRW Young Rich List. Today it's the AFR Young Rich List. And my high school invited me back to come and speak to the year 12s and students. And then ABC News ended up coming. And so it kind of became this whole day of me going back to my high school. And and they said they asked me that question and and I said to them, I don't have the answer.

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And I literally spent the next 3 or 4 days thinking about it cuz the way I was thinking about it is like if everything cuz I've I've you know from breaking the cycle and for the last 32 years I've obsessed about personal development. I've obsessed about human psychology about why we do what we do about why some people fulfill their potential while others don't. I know you're much the same, right? We we just obsess about why we do what we do. And and so the way I kind of view it is like is if if

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everything I'd ever learned was an inverse pyramid and it all rested upon one particular principle, what would that be? And my answer to that today is very clear. And it is uh the principle of cause and effect which is the most fundamental principle I believe for a human being needs to adopt if they want to take control of their life and particularly improve their life and improve their business or improve their career whatever it is they're doing is are you assuming that you're at cause

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for what's going on within you and around you or are you at the effect of what's going on within you and around you. And so somebody who's at the effect of what's going on inside of them will say things like, you know, I woke up today and I was just in a bad mood. And it's like, well, that's an interesting decision. You could choose to not be in a bad mood if you wanted to be. You know, your emotions, they feel like there's something that happened to us, but really they're just patterns that

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we're rehearsing. Um, or, you know, I'm at the effect of what's going on around me in terms of I'm in a bad mood because he did this or she made me feel this way or my boss looked at me like that or and so that's that's what being at effect looks like. And unfortunately, most people live their life at effect. And so being at cause is to say, I am causing what's going on inside of me. I'm I'm I'm the one driving the bus. I determine how I think. I determine how I feel. I

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determine how I react and respond to what's going on around me. And so it really, you know, the most fundamental principle is personal agency. And by the way, interestingly, this is also the number one determinant in the level of confidence that one feels. Confidence is not some like ethereal random thing that like you get occasionally. You know, confidence comes down to one thing. Do you feel like you are influencing your environment or do you feel like your environment is influencing you? Because

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if you can feel like you are influencing your environment, again, it's just a story we tell ourselves, right? It's just what's constructive. Um then by definition, you will be confident. I I you raise a distinct memory I I had when I when I first was um doing multi-level marketing way back. A friend of mine, Madison, she was sharing books with me about NLP. >> Yes. >> And there was a book she shared with me called uh NLP demystified which talks about some of this concept.

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>> Nice. >> And I remember her being in the office. I was having a bad day one time and she would just yell from the back of the office, are you being at cause or are you being in effect? And I was like, oh. Oh, but when she would say that to me, it would just aggravate. >> Yeah. Don't you hate it when people pull you out with your own [ __ ] >> Yeah. But she was really good at calling me out of my [ __ ] and I was like, man, she's such an [ __ ] >> I love it.

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>> But, uh, you know, looking back at it, it's a funny thing, but in the moment, it's hard to hear that. So, when you think about >> Well, just on that, Dane, this is the other thing, right, is that, >> you know, I I often have this conversation with with with my circle and and even my team in the entourage, which is like When someone's going through something and they've got a problem or they got a challenge and they're not feeling good, of course you want to empathize with

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them and you want to validate how they're feeling and and you want to you want to give them some emotional support, but you also want to help them get to cause. All therapy is, well, let me rephrase that. All good therapy is is taking somebody from effect to cause. And so unfortunately what we've got is we've got a culture where when somebody has a problem all anybody's doing is just em just just offering them emotional cushioning. It's fine. It's his fault. It's her fault.

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It's not your fault. You deserve that. But you didn't you know and it's all just emotional cushioning. But unfortunately all it does is get somebody more entrenched in effect and more entrenched in victimhood and actually doesn't help them improve their situation. And so I I love the anecdote and and I can kind of see where you're going with it. But it's it's a really important thing that, you know, I do my best to practice. And sometimes for, you know, the untrained eye, the untrained

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ear, it can come across as unsupportive. But I would rather be honest with somebody and help them get to cause to help them change their behavior going forward so they can get a better outcome than just offer them emotional cushioning. It's easier for for you as the talker to offer emotional cushioning. You know, they they'll like you for it, they'll hug you for it, all that. It's it actually takes bravery to sit there and go, "How did you attract this?" >> Yeah.

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>> You know, cuz my principle is anything that happens in my team, in my businesses, in my life, the question I ask myself is, "What did I do or not do to cause this to happen?" And because it's only when one is at cause that they have any influence or any power over themselves or anything else. Sorry, that was a full sidet track cuz I'm very interested to hear how this story finishes. But but it's a it's a it's a it's a I think it's an important thing. I think we need to be more honest

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with with each other, right? >> No, you raised a really good point there cuz I would get annoyed with my friend and then I would go find validation from another friend and then she called me out on that. >> She would be like >> she was ruthless. >> Yeah. She's like, "Hey, I noticed you went to your friend to get validation, but like you're still not dealing with the issue." >> Yeah, right. Um, dude, what's her name? >> Madison. >> Yeah, I love Madison already.

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>> Yeah, she's >> Madison's my G. >> Yeah, >> she I'll send her this clip. She'll love it. But, um, but yeah, she was right there kind of at a a key point in my life. And you raised a really good point about how it's important to not cushion people. It's important to help sometimes maybe mirror where where >> what's happening to them, where that was >> originated from and how you can kind of maybe rewind the tape and go back and do

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something about it. >> So, if someone were to be listening to this and asking themselves the question, well, I don't know if I'm living >> at cause or an effect. How could someone selfidentify? >> Easy, man. >> Where they're at. Think about right now if you're watching or listening to this podcast, think about the areas of your life, whether it's money, relationships, career, hobbies, social life, romance. Think of the areas of your life where you're happy and fulfilled and you're

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doing really well. In those areas, you are at cause in those areas you believe you can influence them. and therefore the behaviors that you demonstrate and therefore the habits that you've developed are in line with influencing them for the better because you've assumed control for lack of a better word over those areas of your life. And then if you think about the areas of your life where they're not the way that you want them to be where again whether it's health and fitness or finance or

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business or career or relationships in those areas at some level you believe you are not at cause. You believe you are the victim to someone or something else and therefore you're not taking the behavior. you're not developing the habits to influence those outcomes as best as you could be. >> If I were to highlight maybe some key ones I'm seeing right now in life in founders, um I'm hearing a lot of conversation about it's the government, it's our tax structure. Uh you don't

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understand the economy right now. The clients are, you know, not willing to buy right now. When you hear about these uh maybe common zeitgeist problems as an entrepreneur, how much should someone be conscious of this rhetoric and whether they deflect it or live into it? Zero. No great entrepreneur worries about the government. Like if you're in Australia or any free democratic nation on the planet, you spend zero time thinking about the government. And if you want to be fully at cause and you truly believe the

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government is the reason why you're not crushing it right now, move [ __ ] countries. Go find a different go find a better government. But great entrepreneurs are great entrepreneurs because they assume full self agency. There is no excuse. I'll give you an example. So my inner circle clients last year, I helped them generate about a billion dollars in sales. And so I've got a unique vantage point. You know, each every month my content reaches about six million business owners. And you guys are

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absolutely crushing it on the content front as well. I've got an interesting vantage point in that I've I I see so many businesses. I see so many business owners and I see inside so many businesses. And so what happens when you have that kind of vantage point is what arises is patterns. Patterns in how people think, how people win, how people lose, what keeps people stuck. The patterns emerge, right? And one thing I can tell you is I've been doing this for 20 I've been in business for 20 years. Been investing in

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advising businesses for about 16 17 years. I've never seen businesses improve so much as to when they did in co because what happened is overnight particularly like bricks and mortar businesses but like overnight the world shut down and everybody starts freaking out and I [ __ ] love it because I know that the harder the circumstance the better and more proactive the entrepreneur is going to build their business. And so counterintuitively and I can give you like like Cocoa 88, there's a chocolate company here in

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North Sydney, bricks and mortar during co the world is shut down. So 100% of their revenue is gone. We pivot them online which is something they always wanted to do but never got around to doing started running ads. The month they thought they were going to die, they did $100,000 in revenue, which is more like significantly more revenue than they'd ever done before. And so that I know that's only one kind of isolated example, but I but I could give you thousands of them to say that it's

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never what it's never what goes on out there. It's what goes on in here. It's never about environment. It's about execution. It's never about circumstance. It's about strategy. And so is that to say that bad things never happen? No. Like like like like the world is a pretty unfair place, right? Life is a pretty unfair game. And so we've got two choices. We can sit around and [ __ ] talk about that it's unfair and put ourselves at the effect of it or we can choose to respond differently.

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But, you know, if if I could like instill one thing in in in people listening, it would be even even the most challenging circumstance you are in right now, it's probably not fair. And I know that it's [ __ ] hard. And I know that it feels like you are powerless, but you're not. And in fact, you're the only one with the power to truly and constructively improve that situation for yourself. If you want to grow your agency, you need more than just a website builder. You need Rick Studio,

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in effect. Do you have an example of where you switched to cause and what happened to you? I started the Entourage in 2010 and so for context for those of that don't know me today we're Australia's largest growth agency. So I've got you know group of businesses across AI, digital marketing, digital media and strategy. uh started that in 2010. By 2015, we had a community of about 300,000 business owners. Uh the business was val valued at 50 million, but not just on paper. We're actually transacting and raising

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at 50. And we had a line out the door of like parents and high school kids being like, you know, little Julie finishes high school next year. Can she come and study at the Entra? And we're like, well, not really. because we help we help business owners that have kind of started and you know they've today it's probably like it's generally like half million or more than a million a year and those are the businesses that we specialize in helping today but back then it might have been you know

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businesses doing over 200k a year and so it's like unfortunately we can't really help Julie and so eventually and it almost comes back to breaking the cycle is eventually I got to a point where I was like let's just start a college and so which is which is so much easier said than done in Australia, the the vocational education space is the second highest regulated industry, second to aviation. And so becoming a college is a long and tedious and difficult pro and expensive process. And but we you know

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we went through that process and um and became a college and entered that space so incredibly successfully. like we were like our growth curve was lit like almost vertical and and then you know we had plans to become a higher education provider. So, as a as a college, you can offer diplomas and advanced diplomas, but then if you become a higher education provider, it's kind of like the next level of um accredititation. You can offer master degrees and bachelor degrees, and we're going to do that. We're entering the

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Singapore market. And we had this whole kind of growth trajectory. Um after being in that space for a little while, the government f the first thing that they did was said if you if you if you're a new entrance into the space over the last two years, we're not going to pay you. And because how those things work is it's just like university. If you think of like hex debt, the government pays the provider and the student pays the government back when they start earning over a certain amount. And we were in the case of the

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entire like you guys are best in class. Like our student completion rates were 10x the industry average. Like we were we were doing a very good job not just in growth but qualitatively for the students. We're crushing it. Um and they stopped paying everybody. And so you you've still got the students. you know, I had I had a team of 90 people, big premise in um Permont down near UTS. Um and so overnight, you know, 80% of our revenue stops coming in. We were rec you recognizing the revenue in the P&L,

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you're just not getting the cash. And so that that went that was supposed to go for 6 months, it went for about 9 months for us. That was a cumulative cash gap of about $5 million. So I just had to like raise money for and raise debt for and sell a bunch of my own stuff and prop up the company and did all that. That was easy relative to what came next. What came next was they essentially put a the government put a wrecking ball through the the the private space in education in Australia because they wanted to push everybody

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back to university in TA which is definitely not a direction that I would have suggested they go in but that's what happened. Um and so we were at that time we were losing about half a million dollars a month and we were about 3 months away from losing $800,000 a month. I had to go from 90 people to 40 people in like a matter of days and that didn't solve the problem. That just bought me two weeks to try and solve the problem. I I reckon I had about a 10% chance of survival. I was meeting with liquidators. I was meeting

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with administrators. They're all saying the same thing. They're like, "You you can't trade out of this." Like, "You're gone." Cuz not only was I in like $4 million worth of debt, I was losing like 600 grand a month, which is not good. And with no viable business model cuz the government had just [ __ ] put a wrecking ball through. And so I'm sitting there, man. I'm 27 28. This also comes back to the story you ask yourself like what's the story the question you

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asked around what's the story you used to tell yourself first what's the story you tell yourself now and so the other piece that was true then was we're in a building where the landlord was not maintaining the building because we were going to be coming up to the end of our lease and they wanted UTS to take over the building and so there's like cracks in the roof and all this sort of [ __ ] and so one day I'm sitting there we've just gotten the news $4 million in debt I'm going be losing a hell of a lot of

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money every month. I'm sitting in my office alone and in the corner of my office cuz it's like pouring with rain that day, there's like this waterfall coming through the the corner of my office because the building that I'm in is literally falling apart. >> These things aren't bad enough, >> dude. Exactly right. And so I remember sitting there and it's and and again like man I can tell myself you know well the government did this and the landlord did this and um we were doing good work

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and that you I could convince myself to really be entrenched in victim and and and don't get me wrong I definitely was until I was sitting there and this [ __ ] waterfall was coming through the roof and I got the [ __ ] newspaper in front of me talking about what's what's changing and I just said to myself I do not accept this reality. I'm going to change it. I'm going to choose something different. >> I got goosebumps you just saying that, >> dude. And then I tell you the other

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interesting thing about that is that is exactly what happened to breaking the cycle when I was 12. Government pulled the funding. >> So you repeated what your parents had gone through. >> Yes. Yes. But this time we survived. >> How did you survive that? Like what was the next step out of that? You made this decision. You said that out loud. Then what? >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But yeah, that's that's the real pivotal moment right there. It's like it's just I just refuse

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to accept this as a reality. I truly believe we create our reality. I truly believe that on some level I must have created all of that. And so I'm going to choose to create something different. And so it's almost like a higher it's almost like a spiritual level of assuming you're a cause, right? Um and so we chose to fight. And it was not easy. It was it what followed was the hardest four or five years of my entire life and like I've had like you know my brother's passed away and you

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know none of us have had an easy run. U but you know that that that was probably you know up there were the hardest four years of my entire life because you're in so much debt you're losing money. Um therefore when you can't pay people everyone starts suing you. So you f you know it's like five different lawsuits at once. Um, you're an institution that supposed to help businesses succeed so you can't fail. It's pretty serious, man. And so what we such a contradiction cuz you're there to

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help people win. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and that was my my GM at the time kept saying that. It's like we have to keep fighting because if we don't like if we let this knock us off then everybody that looks to the entourage or you know perhaps ourselves as as for inspiration when they're going through hard times like they'll be left a little bit despondent you know and so and so yeah and so we chose to make it work and so I mean strategically and tactically we pivoted back to our

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unacredited model just helping business owners grow businesses which we're incredibly good at. Um, and then the rule when you're distressed in business, the overarching principle is kick the can down the road. And so what that means is any cash that's going out, delay it for as long as possible and don't delay it by not paying people or ignoring people. Communicate with your creditors to explain to them honestly what's going on. Explain to them you've got a plan. Um, and you know, you're

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insolvent when you cannot pay your bills as and when they fall due. And so if you if you renegotiate as and when they fall due, then you're not insolvent. And so, >> oh, I see. >> And so, it's it's it's a communication game, man. It's a leadership game. It's just about most people when they're going through a challenging time want to bury their head in the sand and, you know, put the blanket over their head and wish it away. And particularly if you have a distressed business, if you

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do that, the business will 100% die. You have to like, you know, and we owed the ATO money, we owed the banks money, we had invoice factoring, I had like 20 investors. And so I had a lot of stakeholders to manage and you just have to do that proactively because if anybody chooses to put a bullet through you then it's game over. And so that's so you kick the can down the road. Any any any money going out you you try your best to negotiate the delay of it. Any cash that you're able to bring in, you

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you bring it in as quickly as possible. And so you're essentially trying to survive until such a point where your revenues exceed your costs. Then you're a profitable business again. then you're pretty safe thereafter and that's when you start paying back the debt. And so between 2016 and 2020 all I was doing was that trying to get back to profitability and then into profitability but any profit that we generated was paying back the debts that enabled us to survive 2016. when you're

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in that situation, and many people are, um, you know, one one thing we identify and I've I've learned recently is that a lot of business owners have an appearance they try to upkeep and under the hood, it's a different story. It's uncommon for people to deal with that. And I've learned through plugging people I found in that situation into others, they're like, "Ah, I'm not alone. This is this is not uncommon." Yes. >> When someone's in that cycle, what are

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some key things that they should keep front of mind? obviously kick the can down the road is one of them. What are some other things that they should continuously keep top of mind to stay at cause? >> Yeah, it's a it's a it's a really good question. What what comes to mind for me, Dane, and I I'll come back more directly to to the question that you're asking, but you know, we spoke before we started shooting about ego death. And it's it's it's such a painful thing,

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but it is absolutely the best thing that can happen to anybody. And this comes back to the whole like, you know, sometimes the things that feel warm and fuzzy aren't actually the best things for you. And so like you know from 2016 to 2019 because of that fight and because of that mountain I had to become and we had to become as a team significantly smarter, significantly wiser, significantly more realistic. I needed to become a better manager. I needed to become a better leader because I'd

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always led through growth. I hadn't led through distress before. And so that's a whole new lesson in like just be [ __ ] honest and keep showing up. Um, I I had to become a better friend. I had to become a better partner. Um, it just it was because prior to 2016, for for many many years, we've been growing so steeply and so well and and so publicly in some senses as well that my whole sense of self was like the successful dude that grows at this amount and employs this many people and

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is on these lists and all. And then literally overnight the front page of a newspaper, boom, all gone. And so it's like, who the [ __ ] am I without all of that? And so for me, it was it was a process of removing all of the scaffolding that we erect around ourselves, that we tell the world, that we show the world what we are. Um, and and really coming back to self. And so on the other side of that, um, you know, one of the things my wife often kind of reflects back to me is I don't oscillate in the slightest on other

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people's opinion anymore. And so I could get a whole bunch of compliments or I could I could do the presentation in front of a large audience and have it be well received or whatever. And um, I enjoy it. It's good, but I don't think I'm any better afterwards. I I certainly don't think I'm any better than anybody else cuz when you've had, you know, when you've been beaten up a few times, like it gives you humility that never leaves. >> Gary Vee has a really great quote around

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this. He said that at some point you have to learn how to listen or stop listening to the booze and the cheers. >> Exactly. >> Cuz if you if you listen to either side, you're going to be manipulated. >> So, I 100% agree with that. And so my ego doesn't get inflated with the good stuff and my ego doesn't get deflated with the bad stuff. Like there's always going to be people who don't agree with what you put out on social media or an unhappy client every now and again or

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whatever it might be. And so I think one of the really brilliant things about an ego death is you learn to come back to your true self and you learn to develop any sense of self and sense of confidence from internally rather than rising with the cheers and getting deflated with the booze and also rising with as the growth of your company rises and then feeling bad about yourself when you like dude I just don't give a [ __ ] particularly when you become a parent right like it's like your your your

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entire world becomes loving and looking after and keeping your family healthy and that's what truly matters. The rest is just a game that isn't worth tying up your selfidentity in. >> Many entrepreneurs chase success out of security or insecurity should I say or revenge. You call this dirty fuel. What do you mean? And what's what's clean fuel as an entrepreneur? >> Entrepreneurship is a trauma response. >> I agree, dude. >> Isn't it? >> Yeah. >> Isn't it?

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>> We start businesses cuz we got a [ __ ] chip on our shoulder. >> Someone pissed us off at some point and told us we couldn't do something and kick dirt in our face and we go, we're going to show the [ __ ] world and we go and start a business. Entrepreneurship is a trauma response. And so what's driving us all by the way all like every every entrepreneur in this in the beginning what's driving us is anger angst I will prove you wrong um a need for significance which is born

00:32:39

out of a feeling of insignificance I'll show them right and that's really useful fuel because you wouldn't get started if you didn't have it getting started is so [ __ ] scary that if theter alternative isn't more scary, then you'll never do it in the first place, right? And so, you need that kind of dirty fuel. You need that trauma response in order to in order to propel you into the game. It ju you just get to a point where you get sick of being [ __ ] angry and egotistical and

00:33:09

operating out of angst all the time and you're like, hm, I wonder if there's a smarter way. And so like you know in 201 18 and 19 and everything you know I was I was burnt out in 2015 and what followed was not like a holiday. What followed was 2016 and 5 years of [ __ ] no holiday. And so come 2018 like the trick for me was working out how do I keep going kind of I needed to integrate self-care into my everyday rather than like going on a retreat for 3 months type thing. Um at one point I went to

00:33:40

India for a week and you know surrounded myself with with really intelligent wise people and that's where I kind of learned the importance of adopting a better fuel for what was driving me. Again the previous fuel is great to get you started but you kind of burn out eventually. Um and it's not a very pleasant inner experience either. And so the questions that you know I was asked when I was in India and you know I really kind of took to heart is like what if what was driving you was not

00:34:19

anger but was inspiration. Dude, I reckon you are a really good example of everything I'm about to say. By the way, what if what if what was driving you wasn't that you're not good enough? What if it was that your cup was so full it was overflowing? What if what was driving you wasn't to prove you were better than anybody else, but was to actually lift others up? And and if you practiced coming from that space, how would your daily experience of life be different? Because our experience of life is our state.

00:34:53

Like your state of being is how you experience life. That's why you can have like billionaires on yachts in Monaco that are depressed because it's their it's the in you can be doing the funnest [ __ ] in the world but if internally you're not enjoying yourself then in you know your internal state is your experience of life and so and so it was a call to no longer be driven by like angst but like what if you could be driven by like creativity and inspiration and possibility and so since

00:35:18

then I've practiced my best to to really come from a very different fuel source to the one that was very useful in getting me started. >> When you think back at the dirty fuel source, you know, that anger, uh, that warlike mentality that some entrepreneurs stick to, >> was there a fear of letting go of that like a subconscious concern that if you're able to survive and keep your head above water by feeling pissed off? >> Will my drive dissolve? >> Will your drive dissolve? and and and is

00:35:50

there a subconscious fear that if you change the fuel it's all going to go uh sideways >> 100%. And that's the main question that comes up and so and so that was that was the question I was asking myself is I was like oh man like if I've got all these drivers which I definitely do uh and I get rid of the drivers then won't I lose my drive and so the thought experiment for me in India was all right let's reflect in when 2016 happened obviously we handled it well and it took

00:36:22

5 years but in the end we won and so it's it's a good news story, right? But having said that, if I wasn't so distraught and wasn't going through all of these ego deaths and didn't have so much shame like burying me every [ __ ] day, would I have made better decisions or worse decisions? It's like, of course, I would have made better decisions. Would have I had more energy or less energy? Of course I would have had more energy. Could I have led my team even better? Of course. And so there's this whole thing

00:36:59

around like as entrepreneurs, we believe that because this particular fuel source has been our fuel source that if we don't have that as a fuel source, then we won't have a fuel source. And it's it's entirely [ __ ] You make better decisions when you are rested. You build a better business when you are fulfilled. The science [ __ ] proves this conclusively. And I tell you why. When one is in pain, and I'm talking about like emotional pain, right? So, you're angry or you're pissed off or

00:37:28

you're burnt out or you're feeling empty, you're unfulfilled, or you haven't seen your family, whatever it is, you will every decision you make will be made to eliminate or reduce immediate pain as opposed to making decisions that are best medium and long-term for your business, yourself, your family, your clients, and everybody in your world. And so we all know this experientially like you know if if you go away for a weekend and you spend a weekend with your family and you actually get some rest and you and you

00:37:59

put your phone away for a couple of days and you come back on the Monday are you a better leader? It's like dude unquestionably. And so we've all experienced it. And so for me it was just about like really getting honest with myself around that. It's like, so I can still do everything that I was doing, but probably be showing up as a a better human being both outside and inside. And so it's like if all you have known is drive from dirty fuel, then I would suggest that you actually don't

00:38:32

know what real drive is. >> Wow. How many people do you experience that are in this situation that don't realize this? >> Most of the planet. >> And >> I I was >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I've I've been there recently. >> Right. Right. >> And I think that when you're running a if we're talking about dirty fuel and clean fuel as energy. >> Yeah. >> They both have potency. Uh they both get the job done. >> One leaves maybe the engine feeling a

00:39:07

little bit more pristine and maybe one gets a slightly higher level of performance. Would you say that they're equal or would you say that one has strengths over the other? And are there times where you still need to reach back and pull that energy forward? Whatever energy source you use will work. There's lots of really successful billionaires that are seriously pissed off. What I'm not talking about is feeling anger and pretending like you're not. We all get pissed off. We all get

00:39:37

angry. Like that's human condition. It happens to us all. It's about what's the default fuel source you're using all of the time. >> Oh, I see. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And so >> it's it's and again, this comes back to like some of the cultural stuff we're talking about before. Part of I think the problem a lot of the time is that people are angry and they don't express their anger. >> And it's and it's suppression rather than expression. Is you're feeling it,

00:39:59

you're acknowledging it, you go, how do I channel this as constructively as possible? And then you channel it into mission and you get [ __ ] done. And so that's very different from anger being your primary driver 365 days a year just because you've never gotten conscious you just because you never consciously inquired within yourself. I had an extremely big week this week. I bought an AI company yesterday. >> Wow. >> And um on top of every like I was going to have you know we're back in Australia

00:40:25

for four weeks. I was going to have uh an extremely busy 4 weeks and then this acquisition comes out of nowhere and you know most people do an acquisition like this in 3 to 4 months from conversation to deal done I did it in 10 days and um and on top of everything else that needed to be done as well and so it definitely wasn't anger that was pushing me through it but it was there was a definite feeling of right now it is everything all at once everything is happening and I'm required in a hundred different places and so it

00:40:58

required a level of focus and getting in the zone similar to what you described to to to get everything done. >> What are those key drivers that you see that are different between someone beginning and someone who's wellversed? >> Without question, the number one is signal to noise. And so there are thousands of things that you could do in business, but there are only a few things that move the needle. Exceptional entrepreneurs have developed through trial and error and experience

00:41:31

a relentless obsession with signal and the ability to block out all noise. Whereas often when one is starting out in their journey of entrepreneurship or really any endeavor, you you you don't know yet because you don't have any reference points. You can't distinguish signal from noise. Great entrepreneurs spend all of their time on things that matter. Most entrepreneurs spend all of their time on things that don't. >> How do you know what's the difference between signal and noise?

00:42:02

>> Couple of things. The first question is, are you spending your time reactively or proactively? And so, a lot of entrepreneurs have entrepreneurial ADHD. In fact, I'd go as far to say we all have entrepreneurial ADHD until we learn to channel it and manage it, right? And so, like most people come into the office, they open up their computer or, you know, at home, wherever they are, they open up their computer and what's the first thing they do? They open their >> emails. Emails. And so your emails are a

00:42:33

list of other people's priorities for you. Your emails is other people's to-do list for you. And that's where most people start their day. But then more importantly, the rest of the day follows that same trend is they're reacting and responding to notifications. They're reacting and responding to the fire that the team needs them to help put out. They're responding and reacting to what's going on on Instagram. They're responding and reacting. And so they spend their entire days reacting. And if

00:43:02

all you're ever doing is reacting to the immediate stimulus in your environment, I can guarantee you, you are not working on signal. You are being drowned by noise. And so that's why so many business owners feel really busy day in day out, week in week out. And you get to the end of the year and you go, I I didn't achieve what I wanted to achieve. What did I did I even achieve anything? And often it's no, we we felt busy because we spend our days chasing dopamine and reacting to everything

00:43:34

that's going around us so that we can feel like we're being productive. But it's not really hard work. It's just like comfort with a busy calendar. And so the first way to go from noise to signal is like, dude, Dane, I can if everybody watching and listening to this just does this one thing, it'll take them 30 seconds. If they just do this one thing, it will improve their business 10x for the entirety of 2026. And you can do it in the next 30 seconds. >> Let's go. >> What I want you to do is open up your

00:44:07

calendar and for 2 hours a day, 3 days a week, schedule deep, uninterrupted work. That's all I want you to do. For me, I do that between kind of like 4 or 5 a.m. and usually like 1 or 2:00 p.m. And I do it 5 days a week or six days a week. Just do it 2 hours a day, 3 days a week to start. And then what you're going to focus on in that deep work time period is the number one constraint in your business. What's the number one constraint in your business? Ask yourself this question. What's the

00:44:46

biggest challenge that if solved would make the biggest difference? What's the biggest challenge that if solved would make would make the biggest difference? And if you're the [ __ ] CEO, then you need to be monoomaniacally focused on that until it's solved almost to the detriment of everything else. And so 2 hours a day, three times a week, the only rule is done by 1. So it has to be done before 1 p.m. because the vast majority of us, our brain and our energy is so much fresher in the

00:45:12

morning. I encourage you to do it straight up when you get up if you can. >> So get it done by one. >> Done by one. And then and then if you if you do that, I think it's worth examining why do we love the emails and the notifications and the reactiveness verse why why don't more people do that? Like if it's so simple and and like dude, it this is like the number one strategy if you want to improve your business and your life. Why don't more people do it? And the reason is is when

00:45:38

you're responding to emails and chasing dopamine, it feels exciting. We're chasing the next shiny thing. Our entrepreneurial ADHD is like pinging. Like it's just, you know, we're it's like it's like entrepreneurial heaven. >> Drug addicts. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly chasing the next hit. That's exact. >> Where's that next email at? >> Where's the next [ __ ] problem? I got some text messages. >> Yeah. Just it's dopamine constantly.

00:46:02

It's so emotionally um it's not fulfilling. It's more shallow than that. It's emotionally fun even if you feel busy and stressed. And then here's the thing. If you put two hours of deep uninterrupted work in your calendar for tomorrow, so phones off, out of Slack, out of Instagram, anything that isn't required to do the project that you're doing is off and distractions are out. And so, let's just go through what that would feel like right now. And and people that are

00:46:32

watching and listening are already feeling into this. And so, like, I'll I'll I'll answer it for them. It's like you sit down at your desk. And by the way, the number one constraint in your business, why is it the number one constraint in your business? because it's your biggest weakness, >> right? >> I guess it's a reflection of of who you are >> 100%. And so I'm encouraging you to sit down for two hours with no distractions. And you might not even be able to start

00:46:57

working on it straight away because you don't even have the skills or the knowledge. And so maybe the first few weeks of doing this, those two hours are just going to be on learning the thing that you need to learn so that you can eventually do the thing or hire the person to do the thing. But if you imagine that you're sitting down for 2 hours with no notifications, no interruptions, how do we and and all you got to do is work on one thing that by definition is challenging. How do you feel? Okay, you feel stupid. You feel

00:47:22

inadequate. You feel how the [ __ ] have I not solved this already? You feel overwhelmed. Your brain starts making up. I need to go pee. I need to go eat. I need to go feed the dog. I need to go. And and and so there's it's it's incredibly emotionally uncomfortable, which is why nobody does it. It was Henry Ford that said thinking is the hardest thing to do and that's why nobody does it, right? To sit there in an empty room and just think and do and work on the biggest challenge is [ __ ] hard, man.

00:47:53

Like you particularly if you write a book, >> how hard is it to sit down like six, eight hours a day like commit yourself to actually writing? >> That was painful. It's that's that's the word. It's painful. Whereas, you know, just chasing shiny things all day is very pleasurable in the immediate term. >> And so that's that's what you need to do is is spend less time reacting to dopamine and [ __ ] spend more time confronting the uncomfortability of working on the things that are actually

00:48:19

going to move the needle which you know the the the only three things that move the needle in a business uh generating leads converting sales and delivering better to your customers at scale so that you can extend LTV one of your constraints is going to fall within those three things and that's where you need to focus I'd like to talk about this because so many conversations I have are you know potentially entrepreneurs who are working with us on their strategy Y and they might be fixating on the wrong things. Yes. When

00:48:47

we talk about brand strategy, we always talk about, hey, like it's the art of communication through through your verbal and visual design >> and it should be pointed at getting the money. >> When you think about entrepreneurs that aren't quite where they need to be, >> how often do you find that their problem is straight up attention leads conversion? >> Attention as in you're talking about social media attention. >> Yeah. like top of funnel, not necessarily not necessarily top of

00:49:13

social media. It could be uh I guess the activity that leads to conversations that leads to >> Yeah. >> uh transactions. >> Got it. Most people think they have a market problem. Most people think they have a lead problem. Most people think they have a client problem. They don't. They have an attention deficit problem in terms of where is their attention going. really they have a discipline problem because we are spending all of our time on [ __ ] that doesn't matter rather than

00:49:45

focusing on unlocking the core constraints which are going to enable your business to grow. >> When you really confront people with that, what tends to be their reaction? Honestly, a reluctant acceptance. What does that look like? >> It's like, [ __ ] you're right. [ __ ] because you realize that you're wasting a lot of time. >> Let me put it even more bluntly. You you realize that you've wasted a lot of time, >> which is which is which is both incredibly frustrating and incredibly

00:50:19

empowering. >> So So would you say that um a lot of entrepreneurs are living a an illusion of being productive because of how busy they are versus um being effective and actually solving problems? 100%. 100%. And that's always the first constraint, dude. You can if if if all if the only change an entrepreneur makes is spending their time more proactively on core constraints and the core needle movers. Um if that's all they do and they've never done that before, they'll three, four,

00:51:00

5x their business in a year. Un like unquestion. Like I I see this to me it's it's like almost routine. I see this every day, right? I'll give you another example. The the biggest practical constraint that I see inside of businesses is that the entrepreneur is spending all of their time in delivery. So delivering the product or service. And the reason why we do that is because we assume before you start a business that doing a business is about doing the thing that the product or service does.

00:51:29

And we get to a point where you realize that, well, hold on a second. I'm really good at this thing, but the business is plateauing. And the reason for that is that all growth is sales and marketing led. You can have the best product or service in the world, but if nobody knows about it, nobody can buy it. And so, if you're spending all of your time in delivery, I would argue that you do not have a business, you have a job. And so, our job together is to help you backfill your roles in delivery to the

00:51:57

extent that is possible. Now uh so that you can spend more time as a growth focused CEO. Um in terms of driving growth, there are three things that drive growth. Number one is generating leads. Number two is making sales. And number three is recruiting or training people to generate leads and make sales. And so money making is preceded by money-making activities. If you're not spending your time on one of those three things, you're not going to make more money. If someone's listening to this and they're

00:52:28

asking themselves the question, okay, well, I want to make more money. Um, I don't have the resources to hire people. >> What should I do? >> Yeah, that's a really good question because that's the main scenario particularly in the entourage and any investe companies that we invest into. That's the main thing that the ma the the most common starting point is like I want to get my time back but I don't have the cash flow to employ other people to get my time back. And so the

00:52:58

question in that instance is how do I generate more revenue and free cash flow net positive cash flow um without working harder. The first key is raise your prices. As entrepreneurs, we are so good at undercharging and it comes from a place of imposter syndrome. If I took an entrepreneur out of their business, put them in a competitive business and said, "You're selling the same thing but for 40% more," they would do it without a problem. But in their business, in our own business, we know the operational

00:53:31

gaps. We know that a key person might be leaving in a month's time. We we we addressed the client complaint last week and we so we know the imperfections that exist in our business. And so that places a downward pressure on the value that we place on ourselves and that manifests as your prices are too [ __ ] low. The reason why price is such an effective profit driver is every dollar from a price increase falls where straight to profit, right? Straight to the bottom line. And so let's say you

00:54:01

sell sell you sell a thing for $100 and at the end of the year your net profit like the profit you get to take home out of you know your entire business for the year is uh 20%. So you're operating on a 20% profit margin. If we take your price from $100 to $110. It's like oh yeah cool. You know 10% price increase. It's like no no that $10 falls straight to the bottom line. That's a 50% increase in profit. That's a 50% increase in net cash flow. >> Wow. >> You haven't spent any money on marketing

00:54:32

yet, just in this scenario. You're not making more sales. You don't have more customers. All we did was we um delivered a price increase. And now you have more revenue and more free cash flow. And and generally what we help people do is we don't help them raise price by 10%. It's usually between like 30 or 100% type thing. Then the next thing the the next kind of lever to play with in terms of like this stuck position of like I need more money but I don't really have a lot of time. The

00:55:02

next best area of asymmetry is sales conversions. if you are currently converting at 30% of your leads. Um, and through developing a better, you know, you're obsessed with communication, right? Developing a better sales process where we ask better questions, tour the solution more effectively, enroll people more effectively, maybe build relationship upstream through content. Um there's a bunch of things we can do to increase like improve the quality of the sales process which increases the

00:55:38

perceived value of the solution. Um and then your sales conversions go from 30% to 50%. Again it sounds like you know okay cool 20% increase in sales. It's like no no it's a 66% increase in sales conversions and you just increased the revenue of that business by 66%. You didn't generate any more leads in this particular scenario. You didn't have any more sales conversations. you're not even doing any more work. You same degree of work, but you're getting 66% uplift because we improved the sales

00:56:09

process and you're getting greater sales conversions. And and then the third thing would be find ways to generate more qualified leads in a systemized way, but that can sometimes take a little bit of time as you know better than anybody. Um, but the but my point is is man, an entrepreneur's worst enemy is a blank piece of paper. If you're just sitting there trying to figure [ __ ] out by yourself, it's too [ __ ] hard. You and I wouldn't be where we are if we didn't have the mentors and the

00:56:37

blueprints and the coaches and the consultants. I between now and the end of the financial year, I was spending half a million dollars on coaches and consultants to help me unlock my constraints and get better. And so that's the accelerant is um there are things that can help you unlock your constraints right now. And the reason you don't know them is because they're blind spots for you. And so just get around people that can help you identify them and say, "Hey, that's easy. Just do

00:57:02

A, B, and C and then you do A, B, and C and you grow into bigger and better problems." So when you think about creating these unlocks in the situation in businesses and then the cash flow starts coming in. Yeah. >> Then what what should you do then? Like let's say you're able to >> see a gradual increase in conversion. You're able to >> periodically increase your your total price point. You're able to >> fine-tune and get more leads in. Are there any other things that we can do as

00:57:28

entrepreneurs to create more leverage or to multiply that impact? >> 100%. Every dollar that you reinvest back into the business should do one of two things. It should make you more money and that's usually lead genen sales or extending LTV, lifetime value of your clients. Or it should get your time back. I firmly believe that if you are making over $200,000 a year, you should not be doing laundry. You should not be doing grocery shopping. You should not be doing the cleaning. Unless you enjoy any

00:58:00

of that, then do it. But if you don't, then you're spending your time on $50 tasks where if you reallocated that time elsewhere, the arbitrage that you'll be able to generate from that is $500 or $5,000 or whatever your time is worth. And so I see this all the time. It comes back to the signal to noise conversation we were having earlier, but you know, I've got a couple of um clients who run an incredible business and they're just the best humans and the best entrepreneurs and they've built this

00:58:28

online business where they um it's a community of artists and they sell um courses around art and things like that. and they've grown this business $8 million a year and good margins like and just incredible humans, three kids and they're obviously super busy during the week and then on Saturday and Sunday they were doing things like shopping, laundry, uh the father was spending the Sunday mowing the lawns and so you see this at every level of business whether it's a million, 8 million, 100 million and so

00:59:04

the the first area of leverage. And this is going to sound a little bit counterintuitive because we're talking about business, but I'm now talking about getting your time back at home, which is the the easiest leverage point to start to get your time back. Delegate that stuff. Have somebody part-time that can do the chores at home that you don't need to do anymore. And I want to be really clear, particularly with this particular couple, and and for myself included, you don't get your time back

00:59:36

to reinvest all of that time into making money. Sometimes there's things that are more important than that, such as spending time with your kids, such as resting on a [ __ ] Sunday so that when you come back on Monday, you're better. And so, you know, people always say to me, it's like, Jack, you know, you run a bunch of companies, you're always traveling. I take my wife on a date every week. I take my three-year-old, almost three-year-old daughter on a date every week. Um, and they the question I get

01:00:04

asked more than anything is, "How do you do it all?" And the answer is, "It's not what I do, it's what I don't do. I don't open my [ __ ] emails when I get into the office. I don't manage my calendar. I don't run errands. I don't remember important dates. I don't line up in cues." Now, all of this is going to sound like really like arrogant to some people, and I'll come back to that in a moment, but the point is is that your life expands in proportion to what

01:00:38

you remove. It's not what I do, it's what I don't do that enables me to focus on signal. The biggest push back I get from that sort of stuff is, as I said a moment ago, a lot of people go, "But who am I to not do the laundry or do the whatever?" like like it feels a bit you know people will say to me it feels a bit like almost like pompous for me to and my answer to that is this. It's like often our self identity lags behind what's going on in our world, particularly if you're a high growth

01:01:09

entrepreneur. And so, yeah, there was a time where you were growing up and you know, you were from Tazzy or Dandong, wherever you were from, and you needed to do all of that stuff and and so it's relatively entrenched in you. But right now, if you delegated that stuff and you used that time to rest, spend time with your kids, or when you chose to to to spend time on meaningful work that you enjoyed and that moved the needle, would it make your family better? Yeah. Would it make your business better? Yeah.

01:01:37

Would it make you more happy and fulfilled? Yeah. Would you be less stressed? Yeah. It's like, okay. Well, then if you want to be a business owner or you want to be a leader of any sort in your business to your family, to your friends, then who the [ __ ] are you to keep playing small, letting your self-identity keep you caged in old patterns and old habits just because it feels safe? Who are you not to elevate how you operate to get your time back to be at your best? Because pe people work

01:02:09

for you. They depend on you. Your kids depend on you. And so your biggest obligation is to be at your best. And to be at your best, you need to stop doing things that your old that were a match for your old identity, but have no place in your current and future identity. If we could really help listeners today put a bullet in this for themselves. >> How radical are we talking here? Like if someone is, let's say, on a trajectory where they're like, I'm all in. >> I'm building this app and launching it.

01:02:39

I'm building my agency and scaling it. If they're like, I'm all in. I got to maximize what I have. >> Yeah. >> How crazy should people get with delegating their home life? >> As crazy as they choose. It's signal verse noise, right? And so this is where your personal values need to be the guiding stuff. >> My my top three values are three Fs, right? The three Fs. >> Yeah. Family. So Panda and Ariela. Um fitness because if I don't have energy and health, then I can't contribute to

01:03:09

anybody. And the third one is finance, which to me I more think about as like mission and creativity, but that doesn't start with F, so I call it finance. And so here's the thing is like there's so much talk of like personal values and intention and goal setting in today's [ __ ] culture where it it starts to sound like rainbows and Skittles and unicorns and it's like it's not that. What it is is it's about cutting off everything that isn't in your core values, which is actually really

01:03:35

challenging to do particularly for an extended period of time. And so occasionally I will add on another three Fs. Uh the first one is um fun. The second one is French wine. The French make freaking amazing and we drink very infrequently but when we do probably because we drink infrequently. We love to drink good French wine. And the sixth one is I don't really want to talk about because I'm from Melbourne uh is footy and I don't want to talk about it because I'm a Carlton supporter in the

01:04:04

AFL. That's that's that's a whole podcast in and of itself. >> Yeah. But like >> my brother-in-law has it tattooed on his heart. So, >> right. >> Yeah. >> Colton. >> Yeah. >> Oh, dude. Him and I need to hug. And uh so uh so it comes down to I pretty much don't do anything that isn't that. That's how I choose to live. To many that might seem imbalanced. It might seem uni-dimensional. Um, but you know, I think that I spent a lot of time living kind of the opposite

01:04:36

to that and a lot of freedom and and all of that kind of stuff. And I find that for me, life gets richer and better when I commit to particularly, you know, with Panda, like when I can commit to one person and commit to being the best dad and commit to a particular path around mission and commit to building an empire together and I and I can just focus on being really great at the things that are really important to us. That's when I'm happiest and that's when life is um at its richest for us. And so that and

01:05:05

so that's what I do. >> You define extreme ownership as radical acceptance of blame and responsibility. >> What do you mean by that? >> Everything is my responsibility. Nothing is my fault. And so everything is my responsibility comes back to being at cause that we spoke about before. And so whatever is going on inside of me, whatever is going on around me, I choose to adopt responsibility for that so that if I want to, I can do my best to influence it. The reason I add the second part,

01:05:40

nothing's my fault, is when you say that to people, they start to beat themselves up cuz they're like, oh, cuz it is true, everything is your responsibility. Um, they go, well, oh [ __ ] oh yeah, I actually did cause that. And then they start to beat themselves up. So, it's like, "No, no, no, no, no. It's not it's not a game of beat yourself up. There's no fault. We don't do fault. We don't do blame." Um, it's just pure I am choosing to accept that I am creating this and

01:06:07

therefore I have the ability to choose something different if I'd like to. Um, and so it's it's just about choosing to accept that you are at cause, but not using that cause to beat yourself up because then in a very meta way, you're actually using the principle to be at the effect of the principle. I remember I I had a conversation uh with Cohen Ray about this >> and he shared a metaphor with me and he said, "Imagine you have a bedroom and it's messy as all hell and it's just a

01:06:36

pile of shit." He's like, "Then you realize at some point, oh, I created this pile of shit." >> He's like, >> "Kay man has a way with words, didn't he?" >> He's he's a poet. And uh he's like the second you stand in front of that giant pile of [ __ ] and just go I created that. He's like there's a moment where you kind of get a little empowerment cuz you're like man if I created that pile what else can I do with that energy?

01:07:01

>> So he's like it's it's like an acceptance of I put energy there. Can I just move the energy? >> Yes. >> And that's where I had a for me personally I had a bit of a revelation cuz I was like >> oh yeah like you don't have to be a victim. No. >> And you don't have to beat yourself up. You just have this revelation that you just need to shift your energy. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. >> When you think about energy, how how do you liken it to entrepreneurship? How do

01:07:23

you how do you visualize it in your mind and and and what's something that you could give people to help identify how they could channel their energy differently? >> Taki Moore is a good friend of both of ours and uh >> he'll be here tomorrow. >> Dude, I love him. >> I love Taki an inappropriate amount. Um, he he's just he's such a good human and he's and I I really respect the way he goes about business and friendships and I got so much love for Taki. Taki says

01:07:50

something. He says, "Your mojo is the most important asset in your business." >> Your mojo is your most important asset. >> Yeah. Isn't that cool? >> What does he mean by mojo? >> Your personal energy. How vibrant you are, how happy you are, your your your electricity, you know, your your personal energy is the most important asset in your business. The first time he said that I'm like, "Fuck, he's right. True. It comes back to that like dirty fuel source versus clean fuel

01:08:13

source thing we were talking about before. Like when you're vibrant, when you're fulfilled, when you're filled up, um your business pumps, man, because you because you're showing up and then your team is showing up, you know, there's there's a huge flow on effect. And so I it comes down to um what we were saying before in terms of like your energy will really drive and determine how well your business flourishes. What I think a lot of people sometimes misunderstand particularly in the beginning of our

01:08:42

business journeys is, you know, I got asked this on Instagram last week. It's like, what's more happiness, personal success? Sorry, personal happiness or success? >> What's what's more beneficial? Personal happiness or success? >> What's more important, personal happiness or success? >> And I responded by saying, "Personal happiness creates business success." >> Personal happiness. Really? >> Yeah. because it gives you your mojo. And so I'm a big believer in living your

01:09:12

life to the best of your ability right now is not the reward for building your empire. It's the fuel to build your empire. The happier you are, the more fulfilled you are, the better the better entrepreneur you will be and the better leader you'll be and the better manager you'll be and the better decisions that you'll make. Wh why is this the case? Because it sounds simple. It comes back to what we were talking about before in terms of when you're operating from that angst or that anger. We make very

01:09:41

short-term decisions based on pain removal and pain elimination as opposed to making decisions that are in the best interest for us and everybody else medium to long term. And so we again we we all know this, right? We've all experienced it. When you're on fire and you're showing up with energy, your team lifts, your clients are happy, your customers are happy, the whole business lifts. And so, yeah, your mojo is the most important asset in your business. >> What do you think more?

01:10:09

>> What do you think it is that makes up your mojo? >> Dude, that's a great question. Woo! [ __ ] I've never been asked that before. Um, the most persistent feeling I've had in my entire life is kind of that like feeling of deep inspiration and fire in my belly. It's just been there for from as long as I can remember. It's still there today. It doesn't go away. Sometimes it's super annoying, but most of the time it's really good because I'm just always creating because I'm it's I

01:10:42

don't know where it comes from, but that's like the most persistent feeling of my entire life. Um, today, you know, my mojo comes from primarily Pander and Ariela. We have, man, like Pander and I are very, very, very similar. Very values aligned, very similar. And we're both like naturally by default quite happy and this is going to sound so sloppy and so I apologize in advance but like we're very happy joyful people and so our home is very happy joyful you know there's singing there's

01:11:14

laughing there's dancing and therefore Ari who's you know coming up to three now just completely kind of emanates that energy and so there's a real um loving energy about our home and our family that's a little that that's natural and organic, but also is by choice. And again, Pander and I are very similar in that regard. And so so much of my mojo and um my sense of love and happiness, I suppose, emanates from that environment today. Very different, you know, five or 10 years ago, but that's definitely true

01:11:53

for me today. Um, and then in the business sense, doing work that I love with people that I love. And so in business, we are very good at complicating [ __ ] And at one point, well, at a couple of points, the entourage has become too bloated, too many business units, too many people, too much operational drag. And it gets to a point where I'm like, I'm not enjoying this. Or like, you know, between 2020 and 2023, I had a CEO in place and I was very operationally removed. and I needed to come back in in

01:12:26

2023 to kind of correct performance and it was just it like when I came back in I'm like this isn't a business that I own much less want this isn't a business that I want to own much less want to run and so I had to cull and simplify and bring the business back to what we're great at which is also your point of greater scale your point of greater scale um and so it's it's it's healthy from an economic standpoint but I more do it just for my own sanity and so I believe that great businesses are simple

01:12:55

businesses. I believe that AI is going to make that only truer in the coming years. I believe that big inflated companies will collapse under their own weight and simple businesses that really deliver something magical to the customer or the client uh will find through AI ways to scale infinitely and really well. And so for me it's like doing the things we're great at, keeping things as simple as possible, making sure the team are focused on like 99% signal and [ __ ] any noise and [ __ ] any

01:13:25

drama and any of that kind of stuff and and building a really strong a team that I love working with every day. And then the other thing with me, man, is like it's probably similar to you in that, you know, your office here is like beautiful and your team is beautiful and there there's an energy to it. Um, it's it's the same with us. Like I I invest a lot of money in a really really nice office. Like you know, it's it's it's a big space. It's overlooking Darling Harour. It's way more space than we

01:13:55

need. But um I enjoy it and that's important cuz your mojo is the number one asset in your business. And so I'm not suggesting you be wasteful or um you you don't be frugal in business. But again, it's about knowing what's your signal and what's important to you and not being afraid to invest and make decisions around really nailing down on the things that are important to you. >> I I love what you're saying there about trying to make sure everything remains simple. Yes. and is in alignment with

01:14:26

how you like to operate. >> Yes. >> When you think about entrepreneurs and how they relate to their teams, how do you ensure that you can operate as a beacon of vision? Um, you can also provide structure, you can develop relationships, but not so much so that you become so close to your team that they start to disrespect you. What what's that balance around how you bring the right people around you? Or do you disagree with the whole notion that you can't be friends with your team? I

01:14:56

disagree with that notion because people say to me, you can't be friends with your team because then you can't have hard conversations. I don't understand that. If I have a strong relationship with you and it's like a genuine relationship, not frivolous and surface level, that should enable us to have more honest conversations. And so I only want to work with people that I have a deep respect and admiration and love for. Um, in the vast majority of interest, uh, the vast majority of, um, instances,

01:15:34

I'm really good friends with my team. And the reason why that never crosses into disrespect either way is I'm unrelenting on boundaries and standards. But that's not in opposition to being kind. I I honestly view it as being part and parcel of being kind. If I choose to put my need to be liked by you ahead of my need to make you better. So, so I say say what's nice rather than holding a standard or holding a line and communicating honestly with you. That's the most selfish thing I can do. And

01:16:14

this is what culture's got it [ __ ] up. It's like you got to be nice and you know it's all rainbows and butterflies. It's like, no, that's a really selfish thing to do because you're robbing the other person of um potentially fulfilling more of their potential if they just got more honest feedback from people that really cared about them and had really good intentions for them. And so, the relationship should provide the bedrock and the foundation for honest conversations. And, you know, I've been

01:16:41

in business for 20 years now. It's been a long time. I think that um the one of the most common things I see business owners doing is and and I did this for a very long time is not having the hard conversations and not enforcing the standards and not upholding boundaries. And if that happens then yeah whether it's your team or anybody um it will foster an environment of disrespect because you should be the person that's that's instilling all of that. Um I'm I'm I'm very different today in that not

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only do I do it unapologetically. Um but I I have seen time and time again that it is genuinely best for the individuals for me to do that. And when I don't do that, I'm being selfish. Some founders perhaps feel that with where they're at with their team, it's too late to maybe enforce or foster some of that. If a founder is thinking to themselves as they're listening to this, how do I foster uh healthier relationships with my team >> uh when they currently feel somewhat

01:17:45

disrespected? >> Yeah. >> And unsure how they can start to create these healthy boundaries. Whenever you're going to change anything in your business, you have to proactively communicate it to your team because if you don't proactively communicate it to your team, they interpret change as threat because their livelihoods are on the line. Even if the change is super positive, they will interpret it as threat unless they know what's going on. So you have to communicate proactively.

01:18:11

The second thing is is never make it their fault. And the third thing is is always tie it to future vision. And so what that sounds like is something like this. Hey Dane, uh I need to have an honest conversation with you. Have you got 5 minutes and you got the capacity to have that conversation now? Yep. Cool. Um, I've been letting you down and I've been selfish. I've been selfish because I see areas where you're not fulfilling your potential right now and I'm letting them slide because we have a really good

01:18:42

rapport and I really like you. But if I'm honest with myself, that's me not being the leader that you're here for me to be. And up until now, we've done everything right because everything we've done got us to where we are. But right now, we're here and we're going here. And if we're going to go there, then some things need to change. You know, we need to start maybe measuring more KPIs. We need to have more accountability. We need to start adhering to the vote, whatever the changes are. And in order

01:19:15

to help us go on that journey, I have to stand up and be the leader that is required for everybody. And so going forward, so you'll notice that I'm not asking, by the way. So going forward, uh, I just wanted to flag with you that you may notice that I'm upholding standards and holding everybody. This isn't just a conversation I'm having with you, holding everybody accountable because I'm really serious about getting where we're going. And I know you have the potential to be one of the people

01:19:41

that is still here when we get there. And if I let you down by not having those conversations with you, then I'm failing both of us. Is that cool with you? Yeah. I'm imagining sitting in front of you hearing that. I'm like, I can't say no. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because And that's that's genuinely the position that I'm coming from, man. If if we've all done it. We've all we've all failed to step into our true leadership power and potential for years and years and years

01:20:08

and years and years. And that's not their fault. That's your fault or my fault, I should say. And um uh we need to have an honest conversation because what we're trying to do is re-calibrate expectation. By the way, when you have that conversation, two things are really important. Number one, you then need to start actually having the conversations that need to be had as they arise. So you can't flake on it after that. If you have that conversation and nothing changes, you've

01:20:38

really shot yourself in the foot because it's really hard to reset expectations from that point onwards. The second thing that will happen is um they will still require a transition period. It will still be jarring for them at first. They're not going to go give me feedback and you know it's it it will require an adjustment period. And whenever you're the pace setter, whenever you're the change maker, and this goes for anything, it's like you start eating healthy or you stop drinking alcohol,

01:21:07

there's always a lag period where everybody around you kind of doesn't get it. and maybe you've said to them before that you were gonna start eating healthy and a week later you weren't and so they're like oh it's just another thing that you know Dne's telling us he's gonna do right and so um you you you need to stick to it and understand that for everybody else there's going to be a lag period and so by you doing in this instance holding people to account and

01:21:33

reinforcing the standards compassionately respectfully but most importantly consistently within 3 months of doing that it will be reset. And so it's not a silver bullet that just makes everything perfect straight away. You still have to anticipate the lag period. >> Yeah. That lag period, you're saying it's about 3 months. >> Two to three months for most people. >> Why does it take that long? >> Because you've told me you're going to change in the past and I've watched you

01:22:01

fail. >> Yeah. >> And so I'm just like, oh, you know, it's like that whole like someone gets up and these are the company values. It's like, yeah, but are they? >> Yeah. I'm just going to embellish you for now. >> Yeah. >> And then back to reality. >> Yeah. >> Cuz I've had that look before in meetings where I'm trying to improve myself and I'm pulling my leaders up and I'm like, "Hey, this is what we're going to be doing going forward." And you can

01:22:21

kind of see their faces try not to look at each other and they're like, "Yeah, okay." You know, and then and then the next week they're like, "Oh, he's serious this time. >> There you go. There you >> and then and they don't change anything, but it clicks and then you start to see the change." >> And they say the next week and then the next 100%. And so you have to communicate it up front. But the real communication, >> the communication that gets received

01:22:45

>> is the behavior. >> If you want to be a leader, you have to live your life as if everybody is taking their queue from you. >> Because they are. Yeah. I'm just getting chills. That makes total sense. >> Totally. >> Yeah. for you, what was a moment where perhaps you weren't in the greatest of headsp space and maybe you let your team down? How did you proactively win them back? >> I think it was pre20 2016, man. I think um I was, you know, in 2016 I was 28 or

01:23:24

29, so so very young. Um, and I knew how to use success to drive success, but I didn't want to deal with any of the other stuff. >> So, you could leverage your profile of like, look how great I am. >> No, I'm more mean internally leadership and management of my team. >> I trusted you cuz you were crushing it. >> Well, I just I don't I if if I'd point out all of the wins, but I wouldn't address underperformance headon. >> Oh, you'd be like, "Look at all the

01:23:54

great stuff we did." >> Yeah. Trust me. And and and by the way, that works. That works. But you but you but you want and need to be able to do both. Meaning when you're overperforming, your team need you to tell them that they're doing a [ __ ] great job. And if and where possible, reward them for that. Even if the reward is just a public acknowledgement, but equally, you also need to be able to address underperformance, which is sometimes metrics driven, but it's also sometimes somebody's just not living up

01:24:21

to one of our particular values. You have to be able to address that as well. obviously in private one-on-one. Um, but yeah, I and again my story is mirrored in what I see in a lot of business owners in that they'll they want to do the high stuff, they want to do the positive stuff, but they don't want to address the negative stuff. Um, what you find and what really gets you addicted to um more proactively addressing the negative stuff is it actually builds a performance culture more so than

01:24:49

acknowledging the positive stuff. You have to do both. But if you build a culture again that's honest and compassionate and respectful but truthful then everybody understands what they're signing up for every day and those that aren't play aren't a players that want to float around in an environment that doesn't discuss any underperformance they will leave and that will be the best thing that will happen to your culture. Why does the culture require positive and negative reinforcement?

01:25:23

>> You It requires positive because I need to know that if I'm doing a good job, it is seen and recognized and most importantly, it's appreciated. Or else there's a kind of sense of like, well, [ __ ] why bother? And then you need to also address underperformance because a lot of the time if you don't, performance will slip. people will start to question whether you're actually a high performance organization or whether you just want to use the words because it sounds cool.

01:25:53

>> There's a quote uh I heard recently from Jooko Willink. He was referring to uh a military general from World War I who went through to World War II. >> Mhm. >> And he was training the next generation of troops. So for example, what are the lessons we can learn from the previous war to prepare for the next? He wrote in there that the troops will only do that which you check. >> Yes. >> Meaning if you don't check their boots, they won't >> change their boots. You don't check

01:26:23

their socks, they won't change their socks. You don't check their rifles, they won't check their rifles. >> Yes. >> Which sounds like micromanagement, but what he's trying to highlight is >> they at least need to know that you will check. >> Yes. >> And if you're calling out these negative uh performance things and meetings and so forth, you're saying it's like, I'm keeping an eye on this stuff. >> Yep. 100%. You have to inspect what you

01:26:44

expect. >> Okay. >> And if you don't, the expectations will not be met. >> You said being weird is often just making choices that others don't have the discipline >> to make. >> When I hear weird and disciplined, I can't connect the two. What do you mean? >> Fundamentally, if you want to become wealthier, you need to be weird. Our brain is wired not to make us happy, not to make us successful, but to keep us safe. Our brain is wired for survival. And the main way that it does that is as

01:27:22

human beings, the human psyche scans our environment and looks to acclimatize to the people that are around us. >> Right. Fit in. >> Fit in 100%. Yeah. We have a natural um instinctual need to fit in. What happens is when you're scanning your environment and acclimatizing to that level, you're literally acclimatizing to average. If you want to be exceptional, then by definition, you have to be the exception. And you can't be the exception while fitting into average concurrently.

01:28:02

They're incompatible. And so when I say to be wealthier you need to get weirder, what I mean is if you are acclimatizing to what the tribe tells you is normal, then you will by definition be average. And by the way, average isn't like average is worse than most people think. Average is you're significantly in debt, you're significantly unhealthy, you've probably got three divorces. Like like average is not a fun place to be. And so a lot of people and I I think sometimes just

01:28:35

having the understanding of the conversation that we're having now is enough to kind of get somebody to be a little bit braver around not fitting in is just the fundamental realization that I cannot be exceptional and not be the exception. I cannot be exceptional and keep everybody else happy. I cannot be exceptional exceptional and use average as my barometer to acclimatize to. And so if you're ever if if if your day-to-day life or behaviors or habits ever look like everybody else's, then

01:29:10

that's a sure signal that you need to change something. If and it is a big if, if you want to be exceptional. >> I I love I love where you're going. It uh it reminds me of something I read in a book. It's Grant Cardone's book, Be Obsessed or Be Average. >> Yes. And he lists out the four levels of action. >> Yes. >> Level one, do nothing. >> Level two, retreat. Level three, normal. And level four, massive action. >> Love it. >> He stated in the book that normal is the

01:29:43

most dangerous. >> Yeah. >> If you're going to run away or do nothing, that's one thing, but to play normal >> Yeah. >> is the biggest one. Cuz it's seemingly safe. >> Yes. >> But he describes it as the most dangerous. >> Yes. Do do you mind just like really unpacking this for people? >> Yeah, I really agree with that. I've never heard it put that way. That's that's really powerful because good is the enemy of great. If you have a good enough job, you'll

01:30:14

stay there. If you have a bad job, you'll leave and you'll probably well, you at least have the opportunity to go and find a great job, right? And so good is the enemy of great because it keeps people stuck. M >> but the fundamental um realization that one needs to make is I need to understand and connect with at a deep level what's important to me personally what's important to my family like what what what am I what are our shared values um and then live unapologetically

01:30:45

according to that. >> The fastest way to please nobody is to try to please everybody and that's what everybody's trying to do just trying to please everybody. And so, um, and and here's the thing, man. Nobody's [ __ ] thinking about you anyway. Like, everybody's like, "I wonder what people think of me." They don't. >> Yeah. >> They're thinking about themselves and what people think of them. >> And while you're thinking about what

01:31:09

they're going to think of you, you're thinking of yourself. >> Exactly. >> Which is exactly what they're doing. >> Exactly. If you think about like one really practical thing for for the people watching and listening is think about where you have let the opinions of others or sometimes it's even the anticipated opinions of others like if I do this then I anticipate I will get this opinion where have you let the opinions of others keep you trapped and play with that boundary go do

01:31:42

whatever that weird thing like dude we Dane and I just had a Kit Kat. It's the first piece of chocolate I've eaten in 8 weeks. That's pretty weird. Like because I'll be at a dinner or something. And so a lot of the time from my my own health and fitness journey, I'm trying to either lose or maintain fat while gaining muscle. And so what that usually means is that I'm on a calorie deficit of about 600 to a,000 calories a day. And if you want to lose fat or maintain fat and gain muscle, you really only

01:32:16

need to do two things. You need to be in a calorie deficit while getting enough protein. And you need to lift weights. You don't like that's it. And like this is the other principle that I'm trying to get across is often getting outcomes is far simpler than people think. It comes back to the signal noise conversation. Like that's the signal. Like you can drink all the lemon water to reactivate your metabolism and you can do all of these fad type things, but if you just if you're in a calorie deficit and you get

01:32:46

enough protein and you lift weights, you will lose fat and you will gain muscle and that's all that needs to happen. But what that means often is that um you know I'll have a dinner with maybe you know VIP clients or close friends or whatever and often I'll be the one organizing the dinner but I'll eat before the dinner and I'll get to the dinner and I won't eat. That's weird. I need to be okay with being weird in order to get the outcomes that I want to get. >> I was I was having this conversation

01:33:15

with Ellie, my partner, and we were talking about how uh our daughter feels like she's getting some pressure at school. She's five. >> Mhm. >> And we were teaching >> from other kids. >> Yeah. From other kids, like you should do things this way. Mhm. >> Um, and our lesson to her was, "Hey, look, when someone else is requesting that you participate with them, they're trying to get validation from you, >> uh, that what they're doing is the right

01:33:39

thing." When you think about weird there, there's always that moment as an entrepreneur where you start to realize your old life is kind of fading away. You're starting to get quite disconnected from your old circles, if you will. And then you hear those phrases like you've changed, man. >> When you start to get this push back, not just in an event, but kind of your entire real reality or social environment. >> Yeah. >> That can be painful. >> Yeah. >> Uh how should people really think about

01:34:12

how they could protect the fact that they're growing and that people might start to ridicule them for so much change? >> Anticipation. Just know that it is absolutely inevitable if you're a high growth person. you've changed is the biggest compliment you can get. And this is why I say often being weird is just having the discipline to do things that others aren't willing to do, like going out less or drinking less or eating healthy or whatever it might. When you step into your power, your strength will show

01:34:40

people where they're weak. When you are living in your truth, that will show people where they are living a lie. When you are shining as brightly as you possibly can, it will show people where they are dimming their light. And that will trigger the [ __ ] out of them. >> Yeah, I've seen it. >> Right. Yeah, it will trigger them because the because again it comes back to the tribal thing, right? The most threatening thing that can happen as a human being is we get left behind the

01:35:05

tribe. So the tribe moves on. We don't keep up. And 10,000 years ago and our human brain has not evolved in 10,000 years. That meant that you got eaten, right? And so we equate being left behind with death. And so, uh, when you step up and grow quicker than somebody else, they will feel rejected. And, and you know, if you want to see somebody be nasty, find a rejected person. And so, you have to anticipate if you're a high growth person and you're committed to growing. And and I keep saying that but but I but I really

01:35:47

mean it because you do have choice in this. If you want to be a high growth person then this is what will happen. But if you don't you you are within in every right to just go you know what I just want to chuck it on cruise control and I just want to be normal. I mean most people like us it's kind of not not an option because we don't have it in us. But we could choose that if we wanted to, right? And so you know you're growing at the right rate when you're embarrassed by who you

01:36:14

were last year. And you know you're growing at the right rate when the peer group you used to hang around with says you've changed. Be alienated. What will naturally happen is one will elevate to, you know, the next level of growth or maybe the next size of business or whatever it is. And by doing so, by stepping into that new identity, you will attract new friends at that level. All that's happening is you're attracting friends at the level that you're at, but then you're elevating to

01:36:46

the next level, and some people aren't elevating with you. But at that next level, you will attract like-minded, like-hearted people. In the middle, you will be al alienated. That's part of the price. But again, it comes back to this whole like, are we going to be dictated to by short-term emotional whims or are we just going to accept that there's consequences of being a high growth person and do it anyway? Do you think that belonging is the enemy of selfactualization? >> No, I I see it as the opposite. Like as

01:37:17

I as I kind of feel into my own journey, I feel like I'm trying to grow into the place of best belonging and like the highest level of belonging. >> What is the highest level of belonging? >> I suppose meeting your best self. That's where that's where we all belong. And so I'd much rather aspire to that ideal than to belong in a peer group that requires me to shrink myself just to fit in. It feels like almost everything today is at odds with that. Broadcasting, media,

01:37:57

press, religion, politics, you know, some religions maybe not. It does feel like it's difficult for someone to meet themselves. >> Talk to me about that. >> If you think about entrepreneurship >> early on, you're you're looking to adopt things from others. >> Yes. >> And especially for my first few years, I was like, what are other people doing? What are the silver bullets? How do they operate? How do they work? >> There is a moment when you start to step

01:38:27

back and go, >> what would I do? >> Yes, >> it's not in a book anywhere. Might not make sense. Yes. >> You might share it with a friend and they might not engage with it, >> but you're like, "No, this is right." >> Yeah. >> How do you >> Dude, I love the way you put that. >> Yeah. How do you How do you start that journey? >> Let's say you're a young musician, you when you start off, you start off playing other people's music.

01:38:54

And if you're on the piano, you're playing chopsticks. We all played it as a kid, right? And then you continue to play other people's music, but it's somewhat more sophisticated, more detailed music. And eventually you might get to a point where you're like playing Mozart, but you're still playing somebody else's music. And you get to a point where you become really good at that, but your soul yearns to create your own music. And so at some point, you start writing your own music, and then you become

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increasingly proficient at that. life is that business is that in the beginning and and not even in the beginning at each stage you want to kind of start with somebody else's music because that helps you learn the rules but eventually you'll master the rules and then you're able to break them in the right way and that's where originality comes from. You want to have other people's music but you also want to get to a point where you're able to write your own. I think that's where you get to a point where

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business becomes a vehicle of self-expression. question we ask everyone at the end of the show is um the whole reason we created this show was I'm a guy who runs an agency who just loves people who take high agency. Um when you think about the concept of taking agency over one's life, what does that mean to you? >> It's so much easier to live on autopilot. I call it living by default versus living by design. It's harder to live by design than it is by default. Why? Because firstly you need to take

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honest stock of where you are today and just doing that is uncomfortable and confronting then you need to go to the pains and troubles of identifying okay this is how everything is now how do I actually want it which is challenging to your point earlier it's really challenging to cut through all of the noise and the propaganda and the advertisements and the peers groups and the parents and what the teachers taught me and and so and so you need to be able to weigh fade through all of the noise to get to your

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signal, which is like your heart, right? And it's like, what do I actually want? That's hard. And so, firstly, you've had to objectively look at your life, which nobody wants to do. Secondly, you need to determine what you actually want. And then you actually need to start taking, you need to have the humility and modesty to take the small steps required to start. And that's where it gets even harder because you now need to have the conversations and make the decisions and take the actions to create the life that

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you want to. And so to me that's agency. And often when one starts to take agency things will get more difficult before they get better. But that's the price tag for claiming your potential and the life that you know I believe that you're truly here to live. You're probably, all of us are probably three to five real decisions away from living our dream life. Do you think it's that simple? I think it's that simple and that difficult. I think the difficulty is in the simplicity. You get a little stoic here.

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That's the hard thing, right? It's like um I'll end it on one more stupid quote. Um >> these are good, man. >> Yeah, I shared this one recently. People like this one. So, do you know Jim Ran? >> Yeah. >> He had this funny quote and he's like, "Uh, life's pretty simple. Um, and the best advice is on the back of your shampoo bottle." >> And he said, "It just says rinse and repeat." >> Yeah. >> So, he's like, "When you're in the

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shower tonight, just remind yourself. >> Rinse and repeat." >> Rinse and repeat. >> Yeah. >> Uh, Jack, it's been a pleasure, >> dude. That was amazing. Thank you. >> Got to have you back, man. This is a ton of fun. >> Yeah, I would love to. >> Yeah. We We won't promise a Chucky break next time, but um I don't want to break your diet again. And I like it that I like that you're weird. So, >> thank you. Preserve the weirdness.

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>> I appreciate it, man. Thank you so much, >> Dane. And uh, man, thank you for everything that you're putting out in the world, brother. You're such a you're such a bright light for so many people, and it's it's an absolute honor to be here. It was a great conversation. >> Thank you, man. I'll take that. Thank you so much.

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