Micro-Tribes vs. Massive Creators: Which Wins on LinkedIn?

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There is a zero correlation between followers and leads, and a zero correlation between views and leads. None. Nothing. So, the only thing that matters when it comes to content lead generating is that you're creating content that has high [music] tribal recognition. Does someone recognize themself in it? Mr. Beast goes to Mar- Mars with Elon Musk and they fly there on their turbojet in 3 seconds. It doesn't compare. Nothing compares with your childhood home. If I saw that home, and there was a photo inside the

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house and we had the blue couches, everything, ah, that's my brain is there. There's kind of three different [music] types of tribes that you can actually market to. The first type of tribe is what's called a chosen tribe. It's where you elect to be part of that. Like a mom [music] who finishes at 3:00 p.m. every day, who does one post, 20 likes, 20 inbound leads. She sells to rural agricultural [music] farmers. The chance that they stop and look at it is 100%. People who have 150,000 followers, they make no money.

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Because the tribe that they chose to market to was Earth. in butter, and like they just make it over and over and over and over, and you keep perfecting the recipe. Yeah. That's like a skill how you think about it. And so, like here's the greatest butter of all time. Where AI gets crazy is then when you put in multiple skills together. So, I spent a lot of many hours creating a a niche tribing scoring mechanism. Like if you're kind of like below 150 out of 1,000 in the nichen scoring thing, it's just impossible your

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inbound leads leads will never work. An impossibility. >> Yes. This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio. Here at The Agency Podcast, we're building a community and we would love for you guys to be a part of it. So, we would love to hear from you. What are you enjoying the most? What would you like to see more of? And what do you think might be missing? Drop a comment. Make sure you subscribe. And now, on with the show. Now, Matt, last time you were here on the show, we discussed LinkedIn fundamentals. Okay. Now, I want

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to go a little deeper. You started to do some pretty interesting and fascinating stuff together with AI and technology. How exactly has the platform changed and what should we think about when we think about LinkedIn? Algorithms are changing and have changed based off AI. Ever since like the TikTok-ification of algorithms, algorithms are now interest-based over social-based. What do you mean by the TikTok-ification? So like TikTok comes out and like most of the content that you saw on the platform wasn't someone

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you followed. It just got served to you. And then the same with your Instagram Reels now. So you open up Instagram Reels and you're looking at it. You're not really looking at any content by someone you followed. So, you know, back in the day like, you know, it was right in the beginning it was purely social, popularity. But now the follower number doesn't really matter. It's more about what are you interested in and so the algorithms are working out, you know, what do you give a [ __ ] about and I'm

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going to show you that because then you're going to stay on the platform more cuz that's how they make money. It's just like your eyeballs on the platform. And so over time as these algorithms get better and better, they get to know you more and more and more. And what I've found out from looking at data cuz I work with clients and we see both their LinkedIn views and their leads. So like LinkedIn itself doesn't know how many leads people get. They have no idea because all they have is

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views, connection requests, maybe they can read your DMs and make assumptions, maybe they're running AI algorithms for that. But they want people on the platform. They don't really They care if people are getting leads, but they care if they're like making money and getting attention selling ads. I think it's like a third of their money comes from ads from their $17 billion in turnover. But we have the lead side, so I get to look at the data. And so what I've found from the actual data is that there is a zero

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correlation between followers and leads and a zero correlation between views and leads. None. Nothing. What do you mean by zero? So it has no implication? Pretty much zero implication. So if you the only thing that matters, so I found after working with like 2,100 people, if someone doesn't market to tribes, it is impossible for their content to work. It's actually impossible. It it can't work. The only way they can actually make the platform work is through the DMs and prior relationships. They cannot

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market to a cold lead and bring them into their world and convert them because people are so used to getting the best content now that's exactly for them right then and there, they disregard the five mindset hacks of whatever. They don't give a [ __ ] about it unless someone like a massive brand actually says it. It's the only thing but there's only a handful of these massive brands. Like if Elon Musk says something, whatever he says we're going to listen to whatever he says kind of

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thing whether you agree with him or not, it doesn't matter. But what I found is like I've looked at the data and like you know, I worked with people who have 2,000 followers, like a mom who finishes at 3:00 p.m. every day, who does one post, 20 likes, 20 inbound leads. And she sells to rural agricultural farms. No correlation between the views at all. Meanwhile, I've worked with people who have 150,000 followers, they make no money. Because they're only they're not actually marketing to tribes. So no one

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actually sees themself in the content. So it's been pretty pretty wild couple of months realizing this and building AI. And I've been using AI agents like analyze this on like why it occurs. And so I've just been like looking at actual data that actually matters. But LinkedIn doesn't have the data of leads. They've only got your like and view data. When we have data from 2,100 people from their content but also the leads and money making. So I get to see from both sides and it's impossible unless you

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market to tribes to get inbound content to work. There is a belief that if you have just have 10,000 followers or 100,000 followers or even a million potential subscribers on your channel, if you could just get the subscribers or followers, that would automatically equal a successful personal brand that is able to monetize themselves, but you're saying that's entirely not the case. No, completely incorrect. So then if we're looking at content that will generate leads, what's the difference

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between content that will get followers on a platform and then content that will generate leads? >> I'll give you kind of like an example. So, imagine there's two pieces of content, right? And you're scrolling past two. One piece of content and the hook is, "Mr. Beast and Elon Musk fly to Mars." And they review Elon Musk's new $10 billion mansion on Mars, right? That's number one on the left. On the right is your childhood home. Which one, if you look at both in a

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split second, are you going to look at? Your childhood home, immediately. Doesn't matter if Mr. Beast is going to Mars. If you look at those two images together, your brain goes towards that one, like pre-verbal, before you think about anything, before a thought goes to your mind. So, the only thing that matters when it comes to content lead generating is that you're creating content that has high tribal recognition to someone. So, that content, or whatever it is in that content, has a high amount of meaning to them and their

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life and their lived experience. And I can go deeper into that, but like, think about the craziest hook you've ever seen in your life. Nothing competes with your childhood home. If if I saw my childhood home, I grew up in the street, Samuel Street in Minneola. If I saw that home, there was a photo inside the house and we had the blue couches within the thing, uh that's my brain is there. Or Mr. Beast goes to Mar- Mars with Elon Musk and they fly there on their turbojet in 3 seconds, it doesn't

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compete. So, like, the craziest hook doesn't matter. The thing that actually matters is whatever you're putting out there, does someone recognize themself in it? Like, does it have some level of meaning or correlation to their life? And human beings, like, biologically, we think within tribes, and so it has to have some tribal recognition within it. Okay, so I understand the concept of extreme familiarity. So, if I saw my childhood home, subconsciously, your brain is lured to it because you're like, "This is

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familiar. I live there. This is very close and probably emotional." Yes. Uh in a sense where you have memories attached to seeing that image. Beyond that, when you're talking about tribes, I need to connect the dots between how me seeing something I'm familiar with versus me seeing myself as a part of a tribe, how that how you see the difference between that. Cool. So, we'll just use an actual example. So, let's pretend you've you've gone to the gym. You've injured your shoulder.

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Sure. You've hurt your shoulder. Um I can't remember what gym you go to cuz like let's say I'm I'm just guessing maybe you do bodybuilding. You're doing bench press, right? You've hurt your shoulder. And then you see on the There's an ad, right, that comes up and it's literally like uh physio um physio for men. Um come and we'll do your work for you, right? See how that Okay, that made me pretty cool. But if it's like uh physio for men in North Sydney who go to

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X gym, whatever gym you go to, uh who've been doing too many bench press and they screwed their shoulder and you got to work around the time between your kids. Yeah. Like Super specific to my scenario. It's exactly specific and if uh you describe North Sydney cuz like the office is here and you live near here, you so much of your life is experienced here that you have a level of meaning attached to that. So, wherever you go, whatever you use within your life, like it has a level of meaning attached to that thing.

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And if in your content, if you can put words or images that someone has a high level of meaning within their life, it means they have a way higher recognition level and they assume that you must know them in that world just by the words that you use within the content. If you think about the notion that they're a part of something. So, when I think about tribes, I think about I'm trying to signal to the world that I belong in this cohort or this group. How else do you expand it out from just the

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hook, right, that gets their attention into the next component which then turns them into a lead that sends them down the funnel to buy something? >> Definitely. So, I don't even think you need a funnel or anything for LinkedIn. I think you need nothing. I think you just need to put tribal content out there and then your ideal clients will just connection request you and message you. And I've seen it like in In past week, I've had like a financial planner, just got on LinkedIn

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6 weeks ago. Started the platform, not a content person, went through our tribe stuff and did tribe content, got 100,000 views on his post. Views don't mean anything, but he got 60 inbound leads. Like from a post. He's like a financial planner cuz he puts tribal language in it. He wrote something about NHS consultants in the UK and how much tax they can save and he used some word called DHRS or something like that in there, which is like a very specific tribal thing. So, you don't even need

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funnels or anything when it comes to LinkedIn genuinely. Like you just need to be putting something out there that's so specific that the other human being is like, you must totally understand my life. You know exactly what's in my life. You know what's there and they've described it from being inside the world because 99% of the content is just crap. It's like everyone goes through five mindset hacks to do this. The eight things the richest people in the world do. [ __ ] all this [ __ ] and you're

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like, you know, they got a Warren Buffett quote with Warren Buffett there and it gets 10,000 likes. There's no correlation between you and that content. That's not going to sell you anything. Like I've worked with those people who get 10,000 likes. They make no money. Like one of one of the people I work with, like if they if she puts out content about rural Australian agriculture, like she put out a newsletter the other day. It got like 120 likes. All from her ideal clients and she gets

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like 20 to 30 leads because everyone within that space of recognizes that thing. And so, the propensity for leads, so like the like to lead ratio is way higher because when someone reads it, they stop. It has a huge amount of meaning to them in their life. I I would agree with that. I think we tend to look for things that are familiar to us. Before we get a bit deeper into the nuance around how to build a tribe, let's first talk about how people identify finding their own niche. A common problem that people have with

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their content on LinkedIn is what's my niche? What should my niche be, how should I niche down? People talk about finding a niche all the time. How do you define what a niche is? Definitely. So, I think the whole entire concept of niches just dumb. >> [laughter] >> Like, the whole entire concept of ICP is stupid. What's an ICP and why is it stupid? >> Ideal client profile or ideal client persona, whatever you want to call it. There's many definitions. What that is is that was like a marketing lens where

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someone would go into LinkedIn Sales Navigator or whatever tool and be like, "Okay, we need to find people 30 to 40, this industry, this job title, this role." And they're like they you artificially create segmentation to target these people. But, the issue with that is it's okay for when you're like outbounding people. I would say it's not really, but you can. It works. But, you're self-selecting these people and putting them together, but they don't identify as that.

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Like, they don't say, "I'm a this." They don't say, "I'm a 34-year-old operations manager of whatever." They don't They don't say that. And so, they don't identify with it. So, when you make a post saying something about operation manager, they don't see the post and see a high level of recognition. But, if you are marketing to someone and you decide I'm going to market to a CrossFitter, like, then all you do is you say, "Oh, did Fran last week and I got a 2:57 time

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with kipping pull-ups like Miko Salo." Every single CrossFitter, especially men, who've been doing it for a while, will stop and read that. Because every single word in that sentence has a huge level of meaning for them. And by me saying those words, it shows that I'm inside the world. It's like if you unless you've done CrossFit for a while, you wouldn't know what I said. It's like I'm speaking a different language. >> right over my head. Exactly. So, every

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tribe has a language attached to it. We all say we're all here speaking English right now, but if me and you started speaking about North Sydney, we could speak the language of North Sydney. And no other one would else really know what we're actually talking about. Yeah. I could say, you know, it's so annoying how on Mill Street, like, why are those bloody old Telstra building empty for 2 years? Like, they should literally just build outdoor patios and stuff there cuz like who cares about the road anyway?

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And so, you would be like, "Oh, yeah. I know that cuz I walk past there and I feel that and then it's really stupid." And so, you'd have a high level of meaning. Every tribe has its own language, but the traditional niche niching or ICP is like you are self-selecting people, but they don't select themselves like that. Mhm. So, that was like prehistoric days when there was no interest-based algorithms with content. Nowadays, like, if you open up Instagram, if you have a dog,

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like me and my partner have We've got two dogs. We see dog content. You know what I mean? Cuz like that's our tribe. We're dog people. You will go to the dog St. Leonards dog park up there. You see the dogs. You hang out with the dogs. And so, your algorithm is pointing to you. So, what you want to do for it to make LinkedIn or content work LinkedIn content is don't create a tribe. Just select ones that exist. Yeah. Just select tribes that actually exist and just create the tribes that

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already self-select. So, you could choose um dog owners in North Sydney who own golden retrievers. I don't know. That's They're three tribes. There's golden retriever content, dog content, North Sydney content. But if you do the three things that are in those tribes together, it means that someone who has a golden retriever in North Sydney who goes to that dog park if you do a piece of content, they're going to be like, "You must be the best person to be the vet for my dog. You must be because

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thinking to themselves, I would like to sell a product, for example, what are things that they can do to make sure that they're selecting the right tribes to target? Definitely. So, with LinkedIn, I usually work with businesses that sell a service or something expensive. So, I don't know too much with e-commerce product marketing. It might be very different. Uh but if you're selling some type of a thing where you coach someone or you help someone do something, like you want to there's kind of three different types of

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tribes that you can actually market to. And so, you want to select one of each of these to make it easier. And so, I can go through very simply. So, the first type of tribe is what's called a chosen tribe. So, a chosen tribe is where you elect to be part of that and you have sacrificed to be in that tribe. So, CrossFit is a chosen tribe. Like I've got calluses on my hands, although they're not big right now, but like calluses on my hands, I've got the Olympic weightlifting belt, the Nano

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shoes, um I've got a certain amount of logins on my CrossFit app saying what wod times I've done. I've done this many CrossFit Opens on the website. So, I have like paid to be in there. And so, because of that, chosen tribes are like paid to be in there. Also, some types of industries like a recruiter is a chosen tribe. Someone will say, "I am a recruiter." Or I am a CrossFitter. or I'm a financial planner cuz they need accreditation, they go to certain things. So, chosen tribes are like the

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first type of tribe. It's kind of like a subculture. You could be Did you Were you ever a gamer? Yeah. What games? Uh a lot of games. COD, uh Counter-Strike. >> Modern Warfare 2 back like 15 years ago? >> Yeah. Yeah, did you play right shields rust only? Yeah. Yeah, and you just have each other and someone would pull out a thing. Yeah. Yeah. So, we're speaking tribe language. Yeah, we're speaking the language now that no one else will understand. But like I used to go to

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City Hunter in Chatswood with like 15 mates at midnight, and we'd play till dawn, and we'd just be right shields rust only and Mountain Dews all night. It was the greatest time ever. But you would get that cuz you're like I have a level of meaning cuz I remember playing with my mates and we were chatting and like that has a high level of meaning. So, that's a tribe that you selected. And to be part of that, well, if I'm saying right shields and rust only, the only reason my brain would remember that

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if I experienced it. Mhm. And I actually did it. So, chosen tribe is like one type of tribe. It's where someone elects to be part of that tribe. They've had to sacrifice to get in there. Uh the second tribe that actually exists is is like a place tribe. So, a place tribe is either somewhere that people congregate, or where they live, or where they congregate digitally. So, being on LinkedIn is a place tribe. So, people are on LinkedIn, they understand the LinkedIn lingo. They're on the platform. It's a it's a place,

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but it's digitally. So, there's nuances about that tribe. If I say AI comments, everyone on LinkedIn will be I know what you mean there cuz they've like seen so much viscerally. Or if I say, "How [ __ ] is LinkedIn sales now? You can barely do anything. It's prehistoric." They'll be like, "Yep, I feel you." cuz it's a it's a place. But a place can also be Hugo's restaurant in Manly. Like everyone who's gone to Hugo's, it's been the same menu for 10 years. They

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don't change it, but for some reason we don't care. And they're still There's still the people who work there who are super up themselves, even though they're working in a cafe job. Like everyone knows that, and it's really weird. And it's like this the whole situation feels like you're in a place that's too cool, but it's just a place on Manly. It's like, if I said Hugo's and someone's been there, they're like, I know what you mean. Cuz like, I've been there and

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I've experienced that. Like, every guy gets the steak and chips. It's like 65 bucks. That's what everyone gets when they go to Hugo's. And like, so there's kind of congregations, or there's also where you've lived. So like, if I I've lived in North Sydney, Crows Nest, Mona Vale, I grew up in the Northern Beaches. So I have a affiliation between these places. So you've got to pick some type of place or where people congregate cuz they have things in common. It's it's very easy to

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connect with people. So that's the second type of tribe. The third type of tribe is like what's called a circumstance tribe. So it's where you've just like gone through something. So like, we all went through COVID as a thing, and so we can all make like COVID jokes how we went to our Sydney Olympic Park, and we weren't seeing a festival. We're all going there to get vaccinated. Like, as a weird thing as it is. Or it's like, you've experienced graduating school. So you

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went through school with someone, you graduated together, graduated university. They experience or circumstances that like happened that formed a bond. Like, um have you watched the TV show Survivor? Yeah. Me and my wife watching at the moment. We're like, in 13 seasons deep in 7 weeks. It's so [laughter] good. Like, I've shown it to her, but like, watching that, like the people on the show form the craziest bonds because they're thrown into the craziest circumstance together. Like,

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it's insane, and it caused the craziest bonds. It's like, when you were younger and you go to like a music festival with your mates. And like, you'd be drinking out till like 3:00 in the morning. You create create a crazy bond due to this circumstance you're put in that's really random. And so, the trick to it is picking one of each of these, but then blending them together. Because if you pick one, if I pick CrossFitters that I'm going to market to, that's pretty good. It's a pretty

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good niche. I can talk about what AMRAP, Murph, EMOM. Every CrossFitter knows what I mean. But if I pick CrossFitters on Sydney's Northern Beaches, I can talk about the B-Line bus, the the yellow double-decker bus. I can talk about Pittwater Road, you know, I can talk about different things there. And then if I talk about circumstance, I could talk about someone who's a new parent. Mhm. And so because a new parent, like I know you're a parent, I'm not, but like I'm watching my brother raise our nephew

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now or my nephew now, but like he has language and things that he's learned now that only parents know. And so if But then if you pick the combination of like, okay, I'm a physiotherapist, I want to sell to CrossFitters on Sydney's Northern Beaches who are new parents. If I write a post and I just say, "5:30 a.m. wod, B-Line Pittwater Road, four times last night woke up." Every single parent who's a CrossFitter will read those three things and they'll an image will come in their mind of

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their life. And then they'll stop and read the content. Yeah. >> So if you put those three words or you put "Mr. Beast and Elon Musk fly to Mars in 3 minutes to review their $10 million house." They'll look at the other one. Because that one is their actual experience of their life. So if you're a physio and you want to market to them, if you pick the three tribes, the the chance that they stop and look at it is like nearly 100% because you're just describing their life. It's like

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you're painting their house. It's like if you're scrolling through social media, the number one thing you're going to look at is your house. Mhm. If you scroll through everything, but then there's your house and then there's your bedroom and your laundry room, you're like you just can't even deal. And so that's the best lead generating content where it's like someone's seeing into their own life, but someone else is putting it out there and has a high level of

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recognition. There was um one thing you said there about um in the experience tribe, so we had Jordan Schmidt on the podcast and he's been on Survivor and he said to us something quite unique was you're out in nature with the same group of people for more than like a month. Yeah. Then you come back to society and stimulation hits different. >> Oh, would be good. said that beers feel different, technology feels different. So serotonin and dopamine feels different because you've detoxed it for so long

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that when now you put it back into your body it floods your endorphins. >> Yeah. What what he said to me though was it's hard to get other people to understand that unless they've also been guests on the show. Yeah. >> So you have these micro tribes inside of tribes as well, I imagine. Now, my curiosity is that is there anti-tribe language? Meaning, for example, I've had people who are not parents try to give me parenting advice and nothing could be more repulsive. So there is probably

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language that would push people away as well. >> Definitely. It's It's just when you're not inside the world. Right. >> That's the That's the whole thing. And so >> You're not one of us. >> Yeah, you're not one of us. You're not inside the world. You haven't been through it. There There is a fourth type of tribe. You don't have to select this, but it's useful in knowing. There's also intimate tribes. So these three types of

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tribes sit together. There's intimate tribes. So me and my wife have an intimate tribe together. So we will talk about ordering We're like, we'll just type to a Giovanni's, question mark. And that means we're going to order a barbecue chicken pizza, a garlic prawn pizza with extra prawns. We're going to sit in and watch a movie with the dogs on the couch with that certain blanket. So she just says one thing Yeah. >> from our intimate tribe or if I message my sister and I say something or me, my

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brother, and my sister together, [clears throat] there's intimate tribes and intimate tribe dynamics. And so like that comes confidentially >> So when you mentioned like Survivor, right? They join they'll join the blue tribe. And so they have an intimate tribe there. And then they get together as another tribe when they're they do the merge. There's another intimate tribe. And so intimate tribes are also It's you just can't market to an intimate tribe because you I don't you

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don't know the dynamics of a partner's relationship, but you know, people who do market to intimate tribes are like dog memes. You know what I mean? It's like me and my partner like we're hanging out with our dogs this morning on the balcony like funny moments. And then she'll see a dog meme and she'll send it to me but like they're marketing to our intimate tribe of who what we're doing so they're like that's one other thing I just wanted to talk about there but yeah when

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it comes to the anti language you have to show within the content that you produce that you're actually an insider in the world cuz like why would you listen to a non-parent on parenting advice? Why would they haven't lived and experienced it? It's the same as someone who does CrossFit would never listen to someone's advice. They would never listen to a physio who's never done CrossFit who doesn't understand it because that the person will be like you can never keep on the bar over again and

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I'll be like that's the entire thing. It's like what are you talking about? But then a physio who's done that and who's experienced it would be like look I know you want to keep your elbows in the bar because you're aging stuff in your shoulder just do it once uh every 2 weeks you should be doing more strict and so they can actually understand the world so there is yeah it's it's are you inside the world? Like are you actually inside the world? So if you're not a parent I probably

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wouldn't sell to Yeah. Like if you're trying to market to it. I mean I've just experienced it and it's always it's always a a moment where you're like hang on a second you're not a parent. >> Yeah what's happening right now? >> No offense to people who aren't parents. Um so then in in the case of the tribe language and the communication and the elements of it what are some of the ingredients to make sure we get the messaging right in a situation where

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we're a business and we're trying to promote products or services to another business? >> Yeah definitely. It's just it's first understanding like are you even marketing to a tribe? So a lot of people will be like yeah this is a tribe but it's actually not. They might say something like well we market to everyone. Then LinkedIn will never work for you. Like it's just like [laughter] it's impossible. Like I've literally I've tried to beat it. Like I've tried. You it doesn't work. Let's

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pretend that there's two LinkedIn posts that are out there. So the first post says five mindset hacks of high achievers. The other one says five mindset hacks of for high achievers right? One of them is you. One of them is Steven Bartlett. Who is everyone going to read? So, myself and Steven hypothetically post the same piece of content with the same headline. Same headline, same everything. Well, he's always going to win. No matter what. And that's that's the problem with generic content because

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only the people who can post generic content and it works is Simon Sinek or Steven Bartlett. They're the biggest brands in the world. Like and they post generic stuff. But they can because their personal brand is so large that it's going to capture everything. And so the problem is when you post generic content, you compete with Steven Bartlett. Mhm. You're Everyone's only got a certain amount of brain space. So, if you say the 10 hacks to the 10 mindset hacks to to sleep better, right?

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Steven Bartlett does a podcast with the best sleep scientist in the entire world. 10 mindset hacks to sleep better. You only have 3 hours of content viewing time. Well, I'm going to consume Steven Bartlett's content. So, people become desensitized to generic advice when it's not from someone with a high personal brand. It's like the person who's non-parent giving parenting advice. You're not You're not within the world. You don't have that ability to say it, but like I work with someone

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who's a who's a sleep scientist. And so, he can compete with Steven Bartlett. What he says is 10 mindset hacks to sleep better from an actual sleep scientist that works for the NHS and who has sleep apnea. So, if he says that, that's very different to Steven Bartlett. So, you have to if you go with broad content and try to market everyone, you're playing a You're trying to play a volume game. So, you're trying to compete against Alex Hormozi. Alex Hormozi will put a video out being like,

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here's how to win at business. And it's like, cool. Half a million people watch that. But that's cuz it's him. Yeah. Like it it's so you you can't have to His tribe that he's marketing to is like young hustler bro men. That's That's his entire tribe. And so, in order for it to for you to win, you just have to pick a smaller tribe to market to because if you pick the language within that content, then these people will actually I won't watch the Alex Hormozi one. I'll I'll look at this

00:28:53

one because it seems like it's more suited for me. And so and that's how it works cuz the algorithm is so good now, it just points to the right people. Okay, so a couple things here I want to make some distinctions on is when you say generic content, I believe a lot of people don't fully understand what this means. How do you define generic content in all of its glory and then how do people make sure that they do anything but? Could anyone read it and understand it? That's like the definition of generic.

00:29:19

Can your mom understand it? So there's a there's this big fallacy within marketing advice. I think it was true 20 years ago. I think it was true back when Gary Halbert was writing books on copywriting and how you know headlines and all this kind of stuff and he's like, you know, does your parents understand it or is it is it like a children's book? Generic content is when anybody can read it and they understand what is happening. But niche specific content or tribe specific content

00:29:42

purposely excluding people. But that's good because then the algorithm is going to know, okay, well, who do we point it to? So the algorithm doesn't know where to point your generic based stuff to. Now, generic based stuff in total isn't really bad. If you post about being a parent, life experiences, struggle through life, that's fine cuz that's trying to elevate your personal brand so people see something in you cuz if they find out you know, Dane someone's working with you, but if they find out

00:30:07

you're a parent as well as this person, oh, well, that's like a cumulative thing that actually matters. But where it gets people get caught is they don't have any tribe specific content and so they'll just build these like big personal brands. Everyone's heard of the Instagram people, 5 million followers, no money. They just built these like big brands and then they just can't monetize it because the tribe that they chose to market to was Earth. >> [laughter] >> I think the whole concept of

00:30:31

building a personal brand to then monetize it, it doesn't make sense. Like it doesn't It's just It's being famous for famous sake, which is some people It's cool for some people. If you want to do that, that's fine, but the the money, the likes to leads doesn't have a correlation. Like Like the people who I know who make the most money on LinkedIn, they they don't even have that many followers, because it it it doesn't matter. It just matters that the person who reads your content is from this very

00:30:56

very specific tribe. And I found like the smaller the tribe you market to, obviously there's a cutoff, the smaller you try to market to, they'll get every post you've ever done. Like ever. Like I work with a guy who is a career coach for Indian origin IT people in Australia. Every Every single person in that nation knows who they are. And they'll that someone someone one of his people he works with texted him the other day said, "Oh dude, Ethan, you're a celebrity now." And he's like, "What do

00:31:25

you mean?" She's like, "I've seen all your content all day every day." But it's because he's posting about, you know, grow immigrating to Australia. He's posting about WhatsApping his parents back home. He's posting about, you know, Harris Park being little Little India in Australia. So, he's posting about all this stuff the person's feed is like, "Oh, well, you're just a celebrity because like I'm seeing So, you're trying to become

00:31:45

I thought about this concept is like you're trying to become a nano celebrity. Right. To these people. Not even micro, a nano celebrity. To a specific group who will then pay their disposable income to you, because you become the only option. There's no other options. Yeah, reminds me like a clique at high school or in a workplace. There's a very specific taste or vernacular to how people see the world. >> Yeah. This reminds me of I was in Brisbane one time in my youth. I think I

00:32:09

was 19 at the time. And it was in the evening and a friend of mine said, "Hey, let's go get coffee." And I was like, "Dude, it's like 8:00 at night. [laughter] What are you talking about?" And he goes, "There's this epic cafe on the other side of town called Death Before Decaf." And you walk into this cafe and there's a Wu-Tang table, they're blasting hip-hop, the guy behind the counter has like long dreads. And my friend said to me, "If you order decaf,

00:32:31

they'll tell you to get out." The point is, he was obsessed with this place and they even had a a cappuccino on the menu called a nightcap. Mhm. To me, that's the definition of tribe language for those that think it's rad to drink coffee at night. How can people better identify or understand how they can niche down? Yeah, so Right? So so when you're writing the language, I think some people find it difficult to connect the dots of where to start. It's pretty simple. It's like you want to use this

00:33:00

thing I just it's called the five-word test. So, can you write five words that only that tribe will understand? Only that tribe. Like Cole Mozi has a very big tribe. Yeah. So, if I just said $100 million office, people know what that means. If I say um Guinness World Guinness World Record um of 3 days live event, people would know what that is. If I said Mozi Nation, everyone would know what that is. If I said uh 6:00 a.m. in the morning, Right. So, everyone knows that his like thing is like 6:00 a.m. in the morning of

00:33:33

uninterrupted work. I can give you some for me, for example, for agency owners, right? You probably You and I probably have this in common. So, let's say uh I'm going to charge this client idiot tax. Cool. Perfect. It's very very specific to my inner circle tribe of brand agency owners, which sounds horrendous. Cool. Yeah. It just means that the client's going to be difficult, therefore you should charge them extra. >> need to charge more cuz you know you're going to have three times as meetings.

00:33:56

It's going to happen, so you got to quote up. So, this is a very like micro niche term inside my world. >> I I don't know what [clears throat] that means. I can guess, but I don't I don't know the meaning behind it. the full breadth of it. Yeah, I don't know the full breadth of it. And if you said that in a one sentence to a group of agency owners, they're like, Okay. But if you said that to me, I'd be like, I don't really know what that It's a It's a a for lack of a turn of a phrase

00:34:17

loaded with a ton of baggage. A phrase or a word? Even even better, so CrossFit will say wod means work out of the day. So, it just means what is the workout you're doing that day. So, it's a word. So, the deeper you go into a tribe, the more there's language associated with it's one word, but it's like when you're putting the content out there, it's putting out the content that it could be a word, but it's more the combination of words within the hook. So, whether you

00:34:42

do a one or two-line hook, the combination of those words, the human being reading that is like you are from an insider in my world. And it's pre-verbal. When you market to specific tribes, you can make a very good guestimate about the experiences that they've had and the meaning associated with it. So, you can create a reaction in their body that they don't control. Right. So, they're scrolling through their feed and then they see the tribal language, they have a physiological psychological

00:35:10

response immediately before they even have a thought come to their mind. Then what happens? Why is this the required mechanism to successfully market on social media? So, I've an example came to my mind then. If you did a post saying, "I just used ChatGPT to work out the math. I've been through 2,643 hours of of my kids' tantrums." So, if you if you did ChatGPT, which is a brand that people have association with, and tantrums, >> Yeah. you get parents who are using ChatGPT. Well, I even had someone said

00:35:39

to me recently, a friend of mine, Tyson, who said to me, "Hey, I recently started using ChatGPT to learn how to parent. I know it sounds crazy, but it helped a lot." I was like, "Say more. Like, this is interesting." >> is an amazing hook. Yeah. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> It got my attention. It got my attention. Yeah. I was like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait. You're you're improving your fatherhood with ChatGPT?" He's like, "100%." >> ChatGPT and parent, but I'll I have you

00:36:02

What would be better if you like, "I have the best ChatGPT prompt to stop my child's tantrums." How long or how many words or how many phrases should people tend to try to use in their piece of content to get their tribe? >> that many. Like, I've seen people who market to specific tribes like two words. Okay. >> matter. Like, the the person that that recently did a post, you know, got like 100,000 impressions, 60 inbound leads. They just wrote The only tribal language

00:36:26

they used in it was NHS consultants. So, I don't know what that is. It just said four NHS consultants. So, someone who is that has a correlation. They used pounds in the dollars sign instead of dollars because they're marketing to the UK. And they used another word called the DBSR or something like that. That was the only three. And so, because of that, the person who's an NHS consultant cuz it was talking about how if you're a doctor in the UK about like how if you get 10,000 pounds raise, you might only get

00:36:55

2,400 pounds in your pocket and here's kind of why. And I was like, this is the reasoning. But because they used the pounds and everything, like the people who are like, oh, wow, this I got to know about this. So, it's like it's like it's news to you when it comes up. But even though and so, you just have to use a couple of phrases inside. It doesn't even have to be massive. Sometimes it can be one word. Like it doesn't actually have to be a whole bunch. It but you just have to use some

00:37:17

tribal specific words within it that describe something that has a lot of meaning. Now, with all this being said, how do we prove that niching down and creating a tribe set of language is the only way to win? I've used dozens of AI agents over like probably hundreds of hours to analyze 2,100 people's profiles that I've worked with and just have found that the ones with like they probably have like a 20 times inbound lead ratio. So, each view is worth about 20 times the correlation between inbound

00:37:48

leads. So, the same amount of work, 20 times as many inbound leads? >> About 20 times, sometimes even more. And there's also a gap where there's an actually an impossibility. An impossibility? >> Yes. So, I created this like tribe so I spent many hours doing this creating a a niche tribing scoring mechanism. So, it scores someone's tribe out of a thousand, but I didn't do it from like my own knowledge. I did it from like frameworks that I've used but just real data. I pulled out like every Zoom call

00:38:16

I've ever done, whole bunch of people's LinkedIn profiles, all their content, all their results, and all their wins. And so, when you see outliers within content, you want to know like why it worked and you want to study it. So, I studied like the outliers compared with the people that haven't done well. And there's kind of like, if you're kind of like below 150 out of 1,000 in the nichening scoring thing, it's just impossible your inbound leads these will never work. It would just It would never

00:38:38

work. But, there's obviously the personal brand effect, which plays into it. And a lot of people might say, "No, but like I don't have a tribe, but it's worked for me." But, it's probably cuz they've been in the industry for 25 years. They built all these relationships just by putting things out, someone's like, "Oh, I remember you exist." And then you start talking to them in the DMs. But, if you really want to convince someone through your content, it has to be tribal-based

00:38:57

content. Okay. What's the danger then of looking at someone who's famous and got it all figured out and replicating their type of content? You You don't see the behind the scenes of what occurs. So, like you don't know, if you watch an Alex Hormozi video, like how many hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of hours of his own entire team that's gone into it to produce the thing. It's kind of like a Dyson vacuum cleaner. Like, you know Dyson one time brought out washing machines. I had no

00:39:21

idea. >> Yeah, so the guy Dyson, I think it's Jamie Dyson. Yeah, James Dyson. He He has I remember listening to him on a podcast, he still has it at his house. The washing machine. >> [laughter] >> But, like they only make a couple of things. Cuz it And then you you buy a Dyson, you're like, "This is amazing. This is I'm never changing vacuum cleaner." Cuz it's It's so hard to make that thing. And so, you don't want to try and replicate. Like, just cuz the

00:39:40

end thing looks good and polished and everything, you don't know like the layers of depth that go into the thing before you actually do it. So, like if you're trying to copy like the biggest people, that's the worst thing you can do. Like, the best thing to do is like finding a tribe where you have some experience in and where there's like there's no where where you mentioned the idiot tax. Like when I used to work in software sales, like a strategy that I had was I just actively targeted the

00:40:06

[ __ ] industries that no one went after. So, manufacturing, logistics, like rural regional Australia. No one targeted them. And so, because of that, their skill level was here with tech. But a lot of people were targeting the SaaS companies. They're really smart. Why would you target the smart and thrifty people? You can only make this much margin. Like economy's built on like What is it how how much margin you can make or how much gain you make? So arbitrage. So I want to arbitrage like

00:40:32

everything. And so if you're trying to like do what Mr. Beast does and Alex Hormozi does, you're trying to like fight with this much like arbitrage. You don't have that. It's better to go to a place where there is no competition. And so like you don't actually have a good enough skill as long as you get from here to here, that's fine. Like you don't need to get all the way over here. And so like you don't want to come up against those types of people. They're

00:40:52

just in a different league. And so why would you try and compete with someone in a different league? An example in my space might be a lot of people try to compete for brand identity agencies around e-commerce, fashion, beauty, things like that. But there's not a lot of it around like construction and things like that. So there are, but I I see what you're saying. You're >> They're not sexy and because they're not in your everyday thought process, you don't think about them. You don't

00:41:17

They don't exist. And so because like you know, most I would guess most people in the agency land are thinking about, yeah, e-commerce this like that's like the cool sexy thing that I want to use. But like you go to the one that like, you know, they've been with an agency for 10 years and the person's just doing their Google Google Map thing. Like that's the work they're doing and they're charging them like a five grand a month retainer. Replace that person. Like don't try and fight for like the

00:41:40

people who are like really good. You want to You want to So why I like LinkedIn, it's like you want to be a big fish in a little pond. Like why would you go to somewhere where there's the best fighters? Obviously you're going to level up faster, that's great. But like you want to go like if I'm going to play like soccer and I want to win and I'm in year 12, I'm playing with the year six kids. Like why would I go play with Why would I go play with the 30-year-old men? I'm

00:42:02

not doing that. Like I'm going to play with the people who suck. Like if you're trying to create content like Hormozi, you're trying to play soccer against Messi. When you never going to win. Like [laughter] impossible. Like it's it's impossible. But just because you can tactically see the content, you can't see the complexity that goes behind it. The same as when you watch Messi playing soccer. If a non-soccer player watches him, why is he so good? You know, if my mom is watching he's like, "Why is he so

00:42:27

good? They're just kicking the ball around to each other." But if you're a soccer player who even played when you're growing up and stuff, you'd watch him be like, "This is crazy." So, like until you get into the depth of something, you don't even know. Like you realize when you go into it and you're like, "I know nothing." Yeah, I was watching Formula 1 recently and my partner appreciates Formula 1 but doesn't understand the nuance technically. And I was watching the TV

00:42:51

and I was fascinated with this one corner that everyone was taking and they were doing extremely fast. And I said to her, "I can't believe how fast people are taking this corner." She's like, "What do you mean?" And I was like, "The wind conditions of that corner on that particular track." And she's like, "I don't have the understanding of what you're talking about." It's it's confirmation bias. Like I know a lot more information about

00:43:11

that specific component. To her, it just looks like cars going around a track. >> And that's it's it's what's really hard with AI right now is because unless you're an expert at something in the thing that you do, you don't actually know how good it is. But but you also don't know when you produce something how good that other thing is. So, it's it's I see with content all the time. This is like very content and DMs. Someone's like, "Oh man, that looks better than I could have

00:43:36

wrote." It's still really bad. Like it's still horrid. Like but you don't know that it's horrid. I think one of the hardest things with content is that most people start with a blank page. It's it's really difficult to start with a blank page cuz if the only people who can start content from a blank page are artists. So, you're a phenomenal content writer and copywriter. You can start from a blank page. You do this as a job. Like I can do it cuz I I do it as a job. But

00:44:02

people, you know, can't do that unless they're an expert. So, the easiest way to actually think about content and do content through content formats. So I brought in my new favorite book that I said. >> [laughter] >> So when I'm thinking about content like and I don't want to start from a blank page. If I start from a blank page it's like only an artist can do that. So they have to be the real professional. When I'm producing content, what you really want to be doing is you want to be using

00:44:28

content formats. Formats are really key. You had Frank Greif in here, didn't you? Correct. Twice. >> So I was at a conference or at a mastermind where Frank spoke the other week. So him and his team get 20 million impressions per month on all platforms, which is massive. One of the big rules that him and his team do is they only produce content that's in a format. So I like to think about a format. The easy way to think about that is if you find someone's content that's online,

00:44:56

whether it's Instagram, but I'll talk from the LinkedIn context. If I go to an expert's profile who markets to someone and I scroll through their stuff, if I see outliers of their content, I know that that is a format that works really well. >> Can you define exactly what a format is? A lot of people struggle with this. A format. So if I watch Survivor, every episode is exactly the same. It It's a specific way that thing goes and human beings love predictability and we love formats. It's why we watch the same

00:45:29

TV shows all the time. It's why I've watched Gossip Girl with my wife six times. Like it it it feels good when you're watching it. It's the same as music. It's a format you're used to, you can predict it, you trust it. So when you find someone else's format online that's worked and it's an outlier. Let's say they usually get this much engagement and now they get this much engagement and then there's a binary here I want to talk about in a second. But like this much engagement, so 10

00:45:53

likes versus 300 likes. Well, you know that that format that was in that post works really well. So what you want to do is take the format or save how it looks, so the image of it, and then with the words and how it's structured, you save that, and then you just put your content into that format. >> Mhm. Like you put it into it. So, if you go through this book, like every single page you see, it's like a different area of a different word. So, what you're doing with the format is you just get a

00:46:19

page, and then you just color it in. And so, the coloring in is just your ideas. And so, you have something that looks similar to the other person, but it's your own ideas inside it. It's the easiest way to create content. Finding outliers, and then just coloring it in with your ideas. Yeah, so an example of this might be there's a trend happening on social media where people are judging their favorite books >> Yep. from S tier through to D tier, >> Yep. and then someone behind the camera

00:46:44

says, "What about this book?" And they're like, "That's an S tier for this reason." That's a structured format that's replicatable, usable from other people, >> Yep. but you fill in the blanks by referencing your own point of view, or your own subject matter. Definitely. And so, where the binary lives in that, where the ones and zeros is, for LinkedIn, the only formats though that you can pick is you cannot pick the format of someone who just goes viral all the time

00:47:10

for the 21 best AI tools, the Warren Buffett quote, the eight mindset hacks of successful people. Those are not formats that are niche specific. You need to find someone who maybe is a career coach to certain people. They sell commercial investing for US home buyers. They sell They're doing something for a tribe, and you take their format. Cuz that's one that actually produces lead generation. You can't take the Warren Buffett quote and change that into a format that works. So, if we're doing the book one that you

00:47:44

used as a suggestion, I would have to talk about books and specific things that are in the tribes that I am. So, if I was going to sell to CrossFitters, and I was the physio, I'm going to say, um A to A to whatever tier, the best CrossFit Games finals. And that would be something Right. that people would actually resonate >> That you're putting your POV into it. >> It And it has to be what your tribe cares about. >> Yeah. It has to be but it's really key to If you just find people that go

00:48:11

viral, if I get Steven Bartlett's post and just try to use his format, maybe his hook and his copy is quite good. But what you're trying to do is you're trying to find a format like the person who is the who I've worked with, the financial planner, she's like four NHS consultants, this thing and then he used this other thing. If I just take his format and then I plug in instead of for NH- NHS consultants, if I say for NDIS owners in Australia, it works the same because you can

00:48:40

replace one of the tribe words with another tribe word. But if I take Steven Bartlett's post, there's no tribe words in it. And so it can't put in tribe words, which makes it really difficult. So from a binary, you know, the archeology's whatever format, but like You you don't know I'm going to put in things that actually attract the tribes. Is there any fear people typically have around this from a sense of I'm stealing from someone else and I'm taking >> Oh, definitely.

00:49:05

>> their format? Definitely. It's >> It's not big on YouTube. Everyone steals everyone's format on YouTube. So it's a massive [laughter] thing. It's fine. I I steal people's stuff. People steal my stuff. LinkedIn, it's it's a thing though. Like Instagram is not a thing. I I don't Oh, I'm not really Actually, I'm not part of the Instagram tribes, so I don't really know. It happens everywhere. I think. >> Yeah, it happens. But for LinkedIn,

00:49:24

yeah, people get really upset. But that's how the best content creators do stuff. They find formats and then they inject their own stuff into their own formats. Why is this better than trying to stare at a blank page and write your own stuff? You're not Picasso. Like you're not a painter. Like you're not someone Like so you can't Like anyone can open this book and make it look somewhat good. Anyone can do it. A child can do it. I don't think that some people should ever try to do it from a

00:49:52

blank page. It's not required. Like it's just they just shouldn't try. Some people I've coached for 6 months, never. They just they just don't it's not within their personality. They also don't like in order to be good at say copywriting or just anything, you have to love it. Like if you don't love the thing that you're doing and have a lot of fun. Like if I sat there and writing all day and writing copy, I'm like giggling to myself writing it cuz it's funny. Right.

00:50:14

Like I enjoy it. I'm I'm having a good time. But for someone that really dislikes doing it, they're not going to do it. >> All right. Now, be honest with me. When I'm talking to founders and I agree with you on this point, if they don't enjoy the process of making content, I don't believe they'll ever get any good at it. You can't make good video content unless you love the process cuz people just pick the energy up on the screen. Like they just they just energy flows

00:50:37

through. Like it's subconsciously it's the same as you know, if I showed you Mr. Beast and Elon Musk flying to Mars or if I showed you a family house. You go to the family house, there's like an energy attached. There's an energy on the other side of the camera that people pick up and like their brain is like looking at subconscious signals and things throughout and they can pick people's mannerisms, what they're doing. And like our subconscious things do things to our body that we can't

00:50:59

actually control. Like we don't control everything. And so if someone's like showing up and they're really energetic and they're like really enjoying it, it like comes through to you. It's why there's a lot of people who, you know, have you heard of like, you know, creative burnout? Like it's a big thing. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's like usually when the person's just faking it. Like if they just if they can't be themself, like I watched this one episode of Chris

00:51:21

Williamson's podcast and he was interviewing someone. I won't name who it is, but like the person was like it's like a therapy session. And he was chatting with the person. The person was like, "Yeah, I'm like having burnout because I'm just the content I'm making it's not even me." Like it's literally not even me. And I'm like, "Oh my this is like the worst life ever." So I think you have burnout if you don't get to be yourself. So if

00:51:38

someone is coming behind camera and like putting on an act, it's like you will burn out because like if you just have to like if like you're in a relationship with someone or a friend with someone and you're just like not being yourself, well eventually you're just like not going to enjoy it. And so and that comes through. Do you think people can genuinely learn to do something they hate with some sense of fun or passion? Yes, I think so. If that thing that they're doing is correlated

00:52:05

with an identity that they want to achieve or they want to get to. Can you give me an example? >> Yeah, so myself. So I used to hate public speaking. So I was like terrified. When I went to school, I used to like purposely miss the presentations cuz I was so nervous and so scared. But like because I like wanted to become the person and so like for my life kind of trajectory I was like, well I want to do this and become that. So like I have to get good at this thing. So I'm just going to I'm I have to adapt my identity

00:52:34

to love it. And so like first time I started presenting was when I went to a group called BNI, which is a networking event. And every time I used to get up my heart would beat a million miles an hour. But I just I knew that in order to get to the place that I wanted to get to, I was like, well I I have to fall in love with this. Like it has to occur. And what I wanted the other thing I wanted it so bad that I was like, well this this must happen. And I think identity realignment and change is is

00:52:57

really powerful. And it's like the best habits you can keep is just when it aligns with your identity. It's why it's why I enjoy say CrossFit or people you know, people who do Hyrox is another thing or they're runners. Like if they're a runner, like they just I'm a runner. I wear my Garmin, I do my thing, I post my thing on Strava. When it becomes part of your identity, I think it's easy and some Some people do start hating it, but I think when it aligns to a further meaning, you can overcome it.

00:53:21

Okay, so Matt, I want you to take me through the meticulous detail of how someone can, for example, go on LinkedIn, find a piece of content that they would like to replicate for themselves >> Yep. as a format, and then find a way to fill in their own tribe language over the top. One caveat here is if you're uh listening to this episode, I strongly suggest for this part of the episode, uh watch what Matt is about to do. We're going to share screen what he's working on on his laptop right now, so you can see for

00:53:50

example for yourself step-by-step on how you can do this on Claude and LinkedIn yourself. Easy. So, I'll go through it super slow. So, I'm opening up Claude. So, just $20 a month Claude account. That's all you need. Um I prefer Claude over ChatGPT at the moment, but these language models change all the time, so maybe by the time this video comes out, ChatGPT will be better. But, for writing, I found that Claude's a lot better. Okay. But, anyone could use any platform they so choose and do

00:54:17

the same process? Yeah, definitely. You can do the same process with any of the LLMs. I just I'd probably say Claude at the moment as at the 14th of April as right now to use Claude cuz I think it's better for writing, but can change in the future. So, all I'm going to do is I'm just going to open up regular Claude and I'm going to open up a Claude project. What a project allows you to do is it allows you to preload information into it like a brain. Okay. So, like Claude has like a memory

00:54:49

of who you are. It keeps a very small memory, but within Claude projects, you can upload I don't know how many words, like hundreds of thousands of words of information, so Claude can like retrieve it. So, like if you say maybe you've done a whole bunch of Zoom calls with clients or maybe you've got like proposals or stuff like that for your business, you can upload these into a project, and that means when you speak to Claude, it can go and it can go and find it. And so, for this instance, I've

00:55:17

uploaded like the Niche Scoring Bible, which is like a LinkedIn book that I put out, and what's called the Tribe Dossier document. And so, I'm going to add those in the link below so people can do this. They can add it to the project themselves. And what we're going to do is we're going to use these because it can retrieve it to like use the tribal language because the problem with AI is that it doesn't know the nuances of details and specifics in industries. So, you need to give it the instructions,

00:55:44

but if you just say to a regular LLM, "Write the content." it's it's going to do it from broad internet knowledge. Right. It's like getting an intern at your company in the first day in the first meeting and having them run an entire department. Exactly. >> Kind of difficult without some training. >> Exactly. But like you can if you with AI if you give them all the information, they can become like the CEO with CEO ability like that as long as you give them the right information. So, I'll

00:56:11

talk about this later the concept, but when you're using AI, think about it like cooking. Like when you cook, you've got two things. You've got Oh, you've got really got three things. You've got the ingredients, of cooking it, you've got the recipe, and you've got the person making it. It doesn't matter how good the chef is or the utensils or the recipe if you have terrible ingredients. It doesn't matter. It's going to taste terrible. And so, it's the same with AI. If if

00:56:38

it's doesn't If you're not giving it the right data and information, it'll give you a very bad output. Like if I try to make you know, like if I try to make avocado toast with black avocados, it it's not going to look or taste good. >> [laughter] >> Like it's it's it's just doesn't matter. Like you just can't and so >> No matter how much seasoning, it's still going to be terrible. >> seasoning. Like it's [laughter] Maybe there's going to be some sadists that

00:56:57

like it, but that's that's the issue. So, people are using data that's not good quality ingredients. >> Okay. And so, you need to make sure like cuz the AI is the chef. And so, and this and what you're telling it the prompt is the recipe. Mhm. >> So, you're you're telling it the recipe. It's the chef. It's a it's the it's the best chef. It's whatever I can't remember all the best chefs. Like Gordon Ramsay plus all the other ones combined together. So, it's those,

00:57:22

but like if you don't give it the good raw ingredients and a good recipe, it can't make anything. So, that's why AI really is up to whatever you can think of. >> Okay. So, in this in this scenario, does that then mean the documents you're feeding into it are the ingredients. Yes. You're the person writing the recipe. Yes. And then it's cooking some kind of response. It's just It's really important because if because what also matters if you're an expert in what you do, like

00:57:45

you won't know what to ask if you're not an expert. You won't even know. And so that's why being an expert is so key when you're building. You need to say the things that an expert would say, which is pretty cool. But the way I use AI now is I don't actually type anymore. Which is pretty crazy. So there's this tool called WhisperFlow, w i s p r flow. And I can actually just pull it up here and show it to you. WhisperFlow. This is a separate piece of software. Yep. Okay.

00:58:12

>> So separate piece of software called Whisper Pro. Um I speak at 187 words per minute. And I've put in 410,000 words in 34 days. Wow. I speak about, you know, four to five times as fast as what I type. And also when I speak I'm unfiltered. And that allows AI to get more data. Yeah, I guess when you're typing something you're trying to be efficient, whereas when you're vocalizing things you can go on tangents and speak almost at the speed of thought. Whereas typing is

00:58:42

eight to 10 times less effective. So typing >> how do you integrate the Whisper uh piece of software into Claude, ChatGPT, or whatever you're using? >> So Claude or whatever you've got, even your iPhone, like you just download it and it's just just a shortcut button. Okay. So all I do is I just click function twice. That's my shortcut. >> Right. So when you download WhisperFlow, you create a shortcut function, then when you go into Claude you just tap that button. And then start speaking.

00:59:06

Yeah. So if I tap If I tap function twice, well okay, I'll do now, it'll come up with this little thing down the bottom. Viewers might not be able to see it, but it's a little microphone thingy. Yep. And then it does It It lets you speak. And then at the end it actually formats it and makes it look nice. Amazing. So this allows you to voice prompt your laptop, your device, whatever you're using. Yes. And so even iPhone. So when you're like walking you can voice prompt, but it doesn't just

00:59:30

voice prompt with like the It's like a big thing. It does the paragraphs, it does the numbers, it does everything. It's beautiful. Emails, you do it for everything. Okay. It's brilliant. So, I'll say now, hey, uh So, we're back So, just for context, we're back on Claude now or we're about to use the Whisper flow. So, back on Claude, I click function twice. And so, I'm just going to dictate to Claude and have this conversation. So, hey Claude, I'm on the Agency podcast right now

00:59:55

recording with Dane. So, if you look up what that is, it's pretty cool. Uh and what we're going to do now is we're going to be creating a piece of content. So, I'm going to be giving you You've got to look in the Tribe Dossier document and the Niche Scoring Bible. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you Michael Subota a profile in here and then I need you to analyze his tribes and who he's marketing to. He sells to IT companies or they're called managed service providers in Australia.

01:00:20

And then I'm also going to give you a piece of outlier content and you're going to use the coloring input module to essentially recreate this post of Michael's. And so, the post I'm going to put in is by a guy called Dan Genzel. He markets to commercial people who want to get into commercial real estate in the US. So, Dan's had a post that's gone really well compared to all these other posts. So, we want to be like, "Okay, Michael wants to use his post, but he put his tribe language into it." So, can

01:00:47

you first just go in and understand the context of what we're doing? Then I will paste in the information so we can actually create it. So, then I just hit function again and then it comes up. Wow. So, it's pretty crazy. That's terrifying. I This [laughter] isn't even like And then I'm just going to hit enter. And then what it's going to do is I'll move this out of the way. It's going to like look inside the files and read and understand it. Okay. So, right now it's thinking.

01:01:17

>> And you've preloaded these as PDFs for it to understand the nuance in the context of the phrases you just mentioned. >> Yes. I want you to go look into this document, read this, apply this to the piece of content. So, if I see on the screen here, if I click this thinking button, you can see what it's doing. Yep. And do you want to explain to us what you think it's doing right now? So, it's going through the context of like reading and understanding everything of what's happening. And it's going to I've

01:01:41

also created Michael's so it responds as me. So, it uses my tone of voice when it responds cuz I give this access my clients have access to match GPT. So, they have access to this same thing. So, you'll see it says, "Yo, got it." I don't even know who I know said that. It also swears so hopefully it doesn't come up here cuz I know this is a no swearing episode. >> [laughter] >> It said, "Yo, got it. We're doing tribal content alchemy, take Dan Genzel's

01:02:06

structure, and inject Michael's specific language into it. The post should read like it was written by someone who lives in the Australian IT services world, not generic LinkedIn coach shit." >> [laughter] >> I'll read the tribe dossier, analyze Michael's tribal markers, take Dan's post structure, and rebuild it. So, I just looked up the Danes uh the agency podcast Dane Ryan runs it focusing on this. Makes sense you're on there talking content. Sweet. Paste Michael's profile and Dan's post

01:02:35

whenever you're ready, and I'll map the tribes first, then I'll rebuild it. So, it's got enough context there now. And so, what I might get it to do is I'll go over to LinkedIn, and I'll open that up, and then I'll grab the other content and the post. I'm just going to open up so Michael's about his profile. Yep. And so, you don't need to give AI things in a neat package. You just give it to like the and it can make sense of it. So, all I'm going to do for Michael's profile is

01:03:02

I'll scroll down. I'll make sure that this about me section is opened up. So, it's like the AI can see it. And I scroll down a little bit more, and I'm just going to make sure that his company profile and stuff is there. Cool. So, all I do is I just hit command A to just select the entire screen or command or control A on a Windows. I hit command C, and then I'm just going to go back to the other page and just paste in the entire profile. Wow, okay. Simple. So just yeah, the whole profile. Super

01:03:30

easy. Then I'll go back to Dan's like outlier post. And so we can see here it's an outlier because this one got, you know, 400 likes and 429 comments. And if I go to the one after it was 45 and 15 comments, and the one above that was 15 and one. So Dan markets to a niche, so binary this works. But this is the post that work has worked really well, and so we want to take this post of Dan's, and so that Michael can use it. Right. Now, as you're doing command A, command copy and command paste,

01:04:05

I I don't imagine the images are coming across though. >> Yeah, so I'll screenshot that. Okay, so you'll screenshot the images separately, um, but yeah, you're showing us how to copy and paste the text. >> Yeah, I'm just going to copy and paste Dan's one. So I don't want to grab the entire thing, so I'll just copy and paste this. And then what I'll do is I'll take some screenshots of this. So I might zoom out just so I can take a full screenshot of

01:04:28

what's going on. So I'll go here. I've got a tool on my computer called CleanShot. CleanShot. >> like 20 bucks, and it just allows you to take really easy screenshots. What's the difference between a standard screenshot and Honestly, I have no idea. I just found this is really easy to use. Okay. So I just bought it for 20 bucks. I asked my business partner who's a bit of a tech guy, and Steve's like, "Dude, you should just buy CleanShot." And I was like, "Okay." He's already researched it, so I

01:04:53

just bought it. So then all I do is I just scroll them and put them in >> Oh, I see how it's different. You don't have to go to your desktop, you can just click and drag from the screen. >> Yes. Fast. It's really And then all I do is I just hit enter. Yep. And then away you go. The AI is going to think. So I've made sure that down And I've got extended thinking on. Mhm. So, it's going to think for longer than normal. I didn't know that was a feature. Yeah, it's uh This is like

01:05:19

I feel like I'm going back in time. Like the other stuff I'm doing now I show you off camera is like crazy. [laughter] But this is like it's it's crazy. Yeah. So, then it's it's reading the tribe dossier to understand the context of everything. Okay. It's going here. It's going through and it's like perfect. I've got the full framework loaded. Now, let's map Michael's tribe objects and rebuild Dan's post structure with pure MSP language. So, what a tribe

01:05:47

object is is it something that only people in that tribe would know and understand. So, if I'm doing CrossFit shoes called Nanos, that's something. I'm wearing like Jordan shoes now. So, people who kind of in this tribe would kind of know what that is. You know, if someone's behind a camera they would know what a Sony A7 is. So, it's trying to pull out words and things that only this tribe would understand within what they're actually doing. And so, it's saying, you know, Michael's

01:06:14

tribal objects from his actual content. Now, a key thing with AI is that it always tries to get a shortcut answer. You always have to say, "No, you can do it better." Like I chatted to a guy who was a professor of cybernetics in the US and he's been using AI for a long time. He said He said, "Always ask it to us." Always ask it to do it twice because it always tries to shortcut the answer. So, the key is like, "No, it's not good enough. Now, it's good enough." Cuz I'm

01:06:40

looking through these tribal objects now and thinking, "They're okay." Mhm. Like they could be better. And so, he's using say cultural register, you know, what are cultural words they say. Dan's structure mapped out. And then it start it it wrote a post. So, instead of how to value a commercial property in 20 minutes, it said how to value an MSP in 25 minutes. Then it's like, "Most MSP owners think evaluation is complicated. It's not. You need six numbers for initial buyer underwriting.

01:07:06

That's it." Right. So, this is its uh first attempt on recreating that piece of content. >> Yes, exactly. Okay, so this is first attempt one for creating the piece of content. But what I do from this is then I'm going to go like further to go to niche down even further, to go deeper in the tribe. >> All right, let's go. So this is where I describe more. Be like, this All right, this is great. But the issue with the post is that, you know, words like MRR stability and EBITDA, they're

01:07:34

used in SaaS businesses and they're used in any businesses. Like you need to mention things like specific software that Australian managed services providers use. What are specific events that they go to? You know, you need to use Australian slang and Australian language like, you know, my mate down the road. Like things like that in the actual post itself. I also need you to put together the image of a realistic valuation of a managed services provider business in Australia and in the format

01:08:00

that if they were looking at valuing in their business, they would actually see it. So you're just trying to recreate and paint their entire world as if they see this and they're like wow, you actually totally understand my entire life. Wow. And so [laughter] I asked it that and let's see what you can come up with. We'll do this as a first pass, but think super deeply onto this and imagine the words like you know, let's really think about it. Cap rate NOI, purchase price like or recurring

01:08:25

revenue percentage client concentration. They're even used within SaaS businesses. Like so we need words that like only this avatar would understand in like Australian tone of voice. You're trying to just get really precise with the language. And you're trying to instruct it key one I found using AI if you're trying to create stuff and you're an expert you know the meaning behind things, but the AI doesn't. So you have to describe things in a way like every tiny little piece of detail. Like everything and

01:08:55

probably in ways that you haven't thought about describing it because you don't really need to when you do your work. Mhm. [clears throat] Mhm. So So, have to like pull out words and things that you're saying like all the time that you're like, "Okay, how do I actually think about this? Like, how do I actually break it down?" And you've got to describe it in a way that's like so the AI swearing. I know this is a no swearing episode, but it said said F word, "You're absolutely right. I

01:09:20

went too generic. EBITDA and MRR are used by every SaaS company. That's not tribal. That's category language." So, you have to recheck it because in Claude, there's only a certain amount of juice that it has. So, like imagine you're call imagine Claude is a Ferrari. Imagine you can drive the Ferrari, but like it's only got like 200 mils of petrol in it. That's when you use Claude in the interface. Like, it it only goes so far and then it tries to get lazy and it stops. If you use like Claude code,

01:09:49

which we won't cover now, the juice can go for like half an hour, hour, 2 hours. So, you can just drive the Ferrari flat. So, the problem is it gets to the end and it's like, "I'm going to get lazy." Why is that the case? Cuz it's only got a certain context window of things it can remember in its brain and on the other side of things like, I would guess that Claude as a company, you know, if it runs like full cycles of computer each time, it costs more money. And so, like, you know, they're trying

01:10:15

to be There's a balance between do I give them a right answer or the really right answer? >> [laughter] >> And so, that's that's the difference of using Claude in the interface like this or using Claude code in a terminal, which we won't cover. >> the company behind uh Claude obviously are incentivized to use as little power as possible to process the information. Yes. >> But you're trying to max what you can get out of it by prompting it this way. >> Yes. And you're trying to prompt it and

01:10:41

that's why you want to use project files and and you're trying to be efficient with the tokens. So, token efficiency is a big thing. A token Think about a token as just a word. Like, if And so, Claude has a I think currently right now a 200,000 word token window. Let's just pretend it's 150,000 words. I'm also not technical, so I could be butchering a lot of stuff, and I'm trying to think of it in like, how do I conceptualize this? It only has like this much like working memory or

01:11:08

RAM. So, like when you run a computer, like when you're trying to run a video game, like if you're using a video game in your computer that's like too good for the computer, the computer goes starts glitching. Yep. It's like it's like it starts glitching and then it like forgets things and stuff, and so you've got to like keep re-correcting it. So, sometimes you need to go this prompt, this prompt, this prompt, like step by step through everything cuz you don't want to throw too much at it.

01:11:28

>> with too much. And this is why we get things like hallucinations. I don't know like exactly the term, but I would say yes. Yeah. Like I that would be my guess cuz it's just it's overloaded. And so if you use, say, and it's getting better, but if you use like this versus Claude code in your terminal, like that and a lot of people will be scared to use that, but they can just go explore it and they probably start using it. It's like that doesn't lose as much context window cuz it has a

01:11:54

1 million token context window, and it can run a lot of juice through it. So, I just think about the amount of juice that it has. And so if you're trying to run a really big video game on a really bad computer, like it you just can't do it. It's a glitches. Yeah. So, it and so you've got to Yeah, so you cuz like if you ask Claude the craziest questions ever, it's only it only runs for a certain period of time. It's like, "Okay, this is what I found." And it stops. Okay. And so it's not

01:12:16

giving you the answer. It's It's I only try to work out that answer for 2 minutes. But like sometimes you might Let's let's do it 10 more times. And then it will go deeper, deeper, deeper. And so it's just doing it more and more and more. Okay. Now, what's the next step from here? So, we've gone here. It said, "Okay, let me go deeper into the Australian MSP world." So, actual MSP software, ConnectWise, AutoDesk, Datto, Enable. I know from chatting to Michael that ConnectWise

01:12:41

is like the CRM that these people use. And so like I only know that. I don't know any history. We You probably don't know what this is. There's Dicker Data, Ingram Micro, Ripe. So, these are words per seat per device. I've heard of per seat in managed service provider companies cuz I used to sell telecommunications, so you'd sell per seat. So, these are words where it's like I wouldn't understand. Like what these mean put together, but that person would be like, "Oh, that's me. Like,

01:13:07

that's my stuff." So, we've changed the post now to how to value your MSP in 25 minutes. Most MSP MSP owners I meet reckon valuation is complicated. Just using the word reckon >> Yeah. is Australian. >> It's Australianism. It that like just from seeing that, the person will subconsciously be like, "An Aussie wrote this." >> Yeah. Reckon. Or if you said uh It feels less like AI wrote it and more like a human wrote it. >> Yes. And so, we could even come up with

01:13:34

a a better hook here where I could say I actually think a better hook might be something like, you know, how to val- how to value an Aussie MSP in 25 minutes, you know, you're not just asking what what what you make down the road got for his one or something like that. So, you can you give me another couple of hook variations that might actually work for this that are like pure 100% Australian. >> Mhm. So, I can ask it to come up with more variations, but I'll go through this post. So, as it calculates it, I'll

01:14:01

go back up to the beginning of the post and we'll look at it. >> Right. And so, it says here, you know, you need six numbers, that's it. Here's how I evaluate any Australian MSP in 25 minutes. Now, I'd read that. I'd probably say Aussie MSP. I wouldn't use Australian cuz Aussies say Aussie. And so, you you'd let it know, and then after a few rounds of juice, it will start understanding. And then I it says So, even though that the the nuance of what you're just saying is a little

01:14:26

annoying going back and forth, you're saying it helps by training this project for when you're making not just this piece of content, but what future content? Yes, all content. So, what >> would come back to the same project time and time again? >> in this chat window, I'd like work out, "Okay, I've spent a lot of time like talking about my tone of voice and my Australian stuff. Maybe I'll make a tone of voice document. And then you'd make a tone of voice document and then you'd

01:14:53

put that in the project so it's got that as the juice. Yeah. So it's got your like tone of voice document with inside. >> Yes. And you're just constantly improving the recipe. Yeah. Every time you come back to cook. And that's the ingredients. So this me giving the Australianisms is the ingredients. And then the the content thing is like the recipe of like how to put it together. Right. >> And so Claude like they've done studies on this and they found that like we only

01:15:12

use like a tiny percentage of what AI is even capable for. We don't even know how to ask the right questions cuz it's so big. Like we're living in kind of sci-fi right now which is pretty wild. But like we don't use any of the juice. Like you never get to a point where the AI can't find the answer. Like you can always find the answer. Like it's just you just don't know if the answer is true or not if you're not an expert in this which makes it really hard. So if I look through this it's

01:15:33

saying here's how I evaluate any Australian MSP in 25 inches or less. A Y C E contract percentage. Mhm. >> I don't know what that is. No, neither. But like but like these people would know what that is. You know, vendor margin look. Founder dependency. That that's something founder dependency is something out of that but if you put it with all these it makes sense. Yeah. It's like it's like the the agency stuff that you mentioned before. If you put the phrase together, it makes sense. And

01:15:58

so then if you look at RMM alert discipline. How many 3:00 a.m. alerts go unactioned in your system? If your N-able or Datto is lit up like a Christmas tree and nobody's responding till the client calls, that's operational debt. By a seed is it in diligence every time. Mhm. So that's that's a phrase that like you know, lit up like a Christmas tree. That's an like an Aussie phrase or thing to say. And so in this content then if I'm sure if there's any Australian MSPs watching, please comment

01:16:27

below. >> [laughter] >> But like if they see this, it's like oh, that's crazy. Like >> But then if you cast your industry eye over the top of this, the person who's making this piece of content should have the nuance to know whether that lingo is right or wrong. >> And if they don't, just go and start talking to more industry people. Yeah. Just go and talk to them. But honestly, with AI right now and with content creation, you can just guess. Yeah. Just guess.

01:16:47

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. I've had people that literally haven't had any experience in the industry and like like a guy in Pakistan and he markets to financial planners in the US. Never chatted to anyone, just guessed. And he had someone in the comments be like, "Oh, wow. How do you know this?" >> [laughter] >> Like you can actually just get That's how scary it is. You can just guess. Yeah. Uh and so it's But it's added all in this post. Now let's see, I might

01:17:11

need to fix the formatting and all that kind of stuff, which I can do later. But like it's even got down here like, you know, MSP valuation framework. You know, Sid Tech Solutions Proprietary Limited. So it uses PTY LTD. Yeah. And so it's like it's put this like actual valuation, you know, Microsoft CSP margin. So it's created it as if they would see it. Now the only difference I'd add here is that, you know, they would probably see this in a Excel sheet. Mhm. They probably wouldn't see

01:17:39

this in like, you know, where would they actually read it? Yeah. So I'd probably come back to this, you know, and I'd probably say, "Hey, this is great. But I think that when they're looking at this valuation of this ex They're probably looking at a Microsoft Excel." So imagine you're putting it in Excel kind of spreadsheet that you can create. I think you can do it in say HTML or whatever that we can actually see that it looks like an actual real valuation. >> Mhm. So I'm trying to just like

01:18:04

replicate what this person sees. Cuz if if they if they want to sell their managed service If they want to sell their IT company, they're probably like a 50-year-old dude, been running it for 20 years. They're looking to exit in X amount of years. They've done some calcs in their Excel cuz all all IT bros use Microsoft. Like and so like, you know, obviously someone in that niche should know that. So then I'm trying to replicate like that same thing. But the great thing is that someone else can just do this

01:18:29

and they don't have to come up with the con- content idea. Right. And this is back to the analogy or the uh metaphor about seeing your own bedroom at home versus Mr. Beast. How do we make it as familiar as possible for the viewer in their own context? So they're used to looking and staring at spreadsheets all day, so you're showing that example. And it's loading it right now. This is crazy. Yeah, so it loads and does the spreadsheet. And so like and this is what they're looking at like

01:18:51

every day. And so they they're going to stop and look at this because this is like what would be in their life. Which is pretty crazy. But if I scroll up, remember I had got to camp with those hooks? So for the beginning, so it's come up with a few different hooks from the beginning. So you can read these out. So the mate's down the road. Everyone asked me what their mate down the road got for this his MSP. Wrong question. [laughter] Like you don't need to know what he got. >> Yeah, it's tribal language.

01:19:16

>> Yeah, it's Aussie language. Or most MSP owners reckon you need a big four valuation to know what your business is worth. You don't. So everyone in Australia calls the big four big four accounting firms. Like the rumor mill, you hear all the stories, right? Mate in Brisbane got four times. Bloke in Melbourne got re-traded for five times down to 3.2 times. Everyone reckons valuation's complicated. It's not. So it's it's got out of the Australianisms into it. Dead set, most MSP owners

01:19:42

overthink valuation. So maybe this is like too Aussie. Yeah. Like but like someone would see that and you'd be like, I'm going to stop and read that. >> Yeah. Like if you're Australian cuz Australia is a tribe. Yeah. Yeah, there's then Sydney's a tribe, then North Sydney's a tribe, then Miller Street's a tribe in North Sydney. So there's there's there's layers of zooming and macro tribes. Yeah, there's layers of zooming in and out. So if we go down the bottom to the thing, it's

01:20:04

like pulled up the valuation. Now loading the financials, so now it's like putting all the financials in there. I've never seen it do this way, but it's like putting up this is like they probably have their spreadsheet open and they probably started doing their own valuations in the thing. And so when they look at this, they probably think, "Oh, I've been trying to do my own valuations." Which which I you know, when I was selling my my cafe, I did my own valuations in Excel. That's what

01:20:26

everyone does. And so like they're probably doing that and they're like, "Oh, this is a guy who sells MSPs who also owned an MSP. He did evaluation. I want to I want to look and compare to what I'm doing, but the thing is I didn't have to come up with the content idea. It already existed. So, the the person, Michael, creating content here, he doesn't need to be a content creator. He just needs to find a format that's worked, and then like literally just plug in his stuff. And so then all I'd

01:20:51

do say here is I say, "This is great. The issue is that like I can't really read everything on it. So, what I need you to do is I need you to make it all in black writing of everything just so I can actually read it. And so someone actually scrolling through LinkedIn would be able to see it and recognize it immediately." And so then you just keep prompting it back and forth a little bit cuz it doesn't have enough juice. And then more descriptive you get, the better outcome you're going to get in

01:21:13

the end. This is This is remarkable. You've just made it seem so simple and easy. It's It's pretty easy. Yeah, it's Yeah, >> [laughter] >> watching you do it this way just makes it a lot easier. Yeah, it's even got here MSP_valuation_ SydneyTech_ March2026.xlsx. Every time you save a file, it does the xlsx in Microsoft. And it's got even the underscores between of how someone would actually do it. Yeah. So, it's like this is going to look like these people and like how they

01:21:44

valued it. Yeah. >> And so then if I cuz I took what worked for Dan, it's like, "Well, that worked for Dan, then it's going to work It's going to have a much more Now, it's not an every time viral every time crazy, but it's going to guarantee that if a MSP owner sees this, they're going to be like, "Whoa." Right. Like they'll stop, and they'll be able to at least stop and be like, "Whoa, you understand my world." It's not going to guarantee you get

01:22:05

dozens of leads cuz if that happened to everyone, then like no one's going to go on the internet looking at content because like it resonates with everyone, but it's it's pretty good. Like it's added everything inside there. It's used all the tribe language in here. I'm probably just going to send this to Michael and get him to post it. Yeah. Obviously put in some real numbers. Although, probably >> up Michael's page, and then by the time this airs, if people are curious enough, they can

01:22:27

go to Michael's >> Oh, literally >> I'll text him off this and he'll post it. He'll And I'll get him to put in his numbers and stuff and everything, but he'll post it. Yeah. >> Yeah. All right. So, this is Michael's page. And then, yeah, we're going to get him to post this. And if you're watching this and you want to see what happens, um go check it out. >> It's pretty crazy. It's like And so, this is like taking a post that's like,

01:22:45

you know, And so, I'm trying I'm just trying to mirror their work. >> is a great process for a text-based, and I'm sure that if you were to do a video-based, you might just have to add a lot of context to See, if I do a video, I do a script. Yeah. >> Like you're obviously just going to get a script and then >> the transcript and then feed that back into >> I've used I've started using some for my YouTube videos, some scripts and stuff. But like showing up camera presence is

01:23:06

like another It's like another thing. Yeah. It's like it's really hard. But it could take It could take the formats though. Like you can go to Instagram and like find a video that's a really good format and then like the book one that you said. Yeah. Matt, this is exceptional. So, you're saying that anyone can just open any ChatGPT AI-based LLM program and speak into it using Whisper mode flow uh and give it context, create projects, and then replicate this for not just text-based

01:23:30

content, but also video content, so long as they can describe the context and give it the transcripts. Yeah, you just need to just think about the the the recipe like metaphor. And so, think, okay, all I need when I'm creating this is I need good quality ingredients. And so, like I'll put something below that you can use for content, but there's other people online who create stuff for their expertise. Yeah, so rather than going in your backyard and trying to dig up potatoes, go to the grocery store. Yeah. Find

01:23:59

stuff that's popular, that's selling. Buy and use that. >> that like go to that grocery store in LA that's like the super celeb one, the rich one. Like, you know, >> [laughter] >> the people go in and they spend like 500 bucks. Whatever that's called. Like You get the best stuff. Yeah, get the best stuff. Get like the organic amazing stuff. Cuz then like then when you give it like the recipe, so you are coming up with the recipe, you can also get recipes online. So, there's If someone

01:24:23

looks up what's called what's a skill file. So, that when the AI reads it, it can really easily understand the restaurant. So, and I'm not too good in the technical side of things. I just think from how to how would someone just think about this? >> example of a skill? So, I I help clients do skills with our program. So, I'll create a 10,000 We're doing one this week. So, I created like a 20,000 word skill file on how to write write a cold DM. So, how to write a cold DM to one shot

01:24:47

book a call. You wrote a 20,000 word skill file together with AI on how to nail the best possible strategy for what makes a good cold DM. Yeah, a one shot book call in a cold DM. And so, >> Okay. And then you wrapped that up into what? A PDF? Yeah, so like we'll just call it a text file or let's just call it .md. So, .md means markdown. It's just the most efficient way that the AI can read the stuff before you vector the stuff. So, it's just in a text file. You can go further than that, but like just

01:25:18

in a text file that it can just read. And so, what I did is to create a skill is like I just like go for a walk and I speak into AI as I'm walking and I'm talking through the process of like how I send the cold DM, what matters, what works, and then I give gave it five examples of like what cold DMs I used. Extract what's working here, look at my frameworks, and then it's like we've had this like long ass discussion of like what's doing. And then I get like my Claude code thing to be like read the

01:25:46

entire thing and make like a skill that my clients can just like paste into their Claude and then it will just like help them write a cold DM to book a call. >> Yeah. So, in your kitchen, if you will, you've like pre-made the gravy. I've tried to make the soufflé 500 times. >> [laughter] >> And then I finally got it. And now I'm just giving it to you. >> want to make the soufflé again. Yeah, so it's like someone's someone's tried to make the soufflé like hundreds and

01:26:09

hundreds of times and tried to mess it up. Anyone can make a regular skill. They could be like, here's how I create my proposals. When I made the skill for the cold DM, like I pulled up five real life cold DMs that I booked calls with, but not with regular people. Like when I cold DM Frank Greif and when I cold DM'd Nathan Barry who owns ConvertKit. And you cold DM'd me? >> Yeah, as well. Same thing. I didn't use you as an example, but like I cuz I threw in a couple of referrals to get in

01:26:34

here, but like you use that as like the base. It's going to be really good and really juicy. And then when you go into the kitchen, if you watch that video of how they do it, each like chef has a section of like literally what they do. And so like a skill would be like, okay, there's like in the video I remember there was like one guy who made butter. And so like, all right, I'm going to create the greatest butter making recipe. So many times and that's my cold DM thing. So I'm like

01:26:58

giving him like the greatest milk or whatever you can do to create butter. Like this back cuz my wife owns a dairy company, so I should know what's in butter. >> [laughter] >> But like in butter and like they just make it over and over and over and over you keep perfecting the recipe. That's like a skill how you think about it. And so like here's the greatest butter of all time afterwards. And then where AI gets crazy is then when you put in multiple skills together. So like one person's making butter,

01:27:22

one person like uh does this other thing, another person does this other thing, and then we get the croissant. And so like that's when you're like you're layering multiple skill files in together and that's like all your IP and things that you do naturally as an expert, but you're like documenting them in like meticulous detail and it requires many thousands of words to to get out what's in your brain into stuff, but then once people have that, they can actually do it. Yeah. Like it

01:27:49

actually works. It's how that guy in Backstage wrote a post and he's just like, I'm just going to sell to US financial planners. And he just like used our Tribe Dossier stuff and people are commenting like, how do you know this? Like how do you know? Cuz it's like you can get the expert level, but the person creating the skill has to like give you the best ingredients to be able to do it cuz anyone can just make a skill file. Like anyone can just do it. Yeah. Right. So Matt, I want you to take us through

01:28:13

another framework you wanted to share with our audience, and this is what you call the two-by-two quadrant. I haven't seen this yet, so I'm seeing this for the first time. Cool. Awesome. And usually I'd like draw this and then be like a nice reveal on the unclogged toilet moment, but uh we've got it just there, so I'll explain it right here down. >> Walk us through it, so >> Yeah, so Again, if you're listening to this, maybe pull up the video version of this so you can see what we're looking

01:28:34

at. >> I like to think about things in frameworks or binaries cuz it just makes it easy to remember. And I like to think and frameworks like you make fast decisions. Uh and so and I like to use metaphors cuz we all understand and know that within our life. And so, when I think about content, I think about like if you look at the two-by-two kind of quadrant, like content that sucks is content that's both generic and then it's for everyone. Okay. So, like content that's generic and for everyone

01:29:00

is a billboard. So, like, you know, when I drove to Coachella few times in Palm Springs, I don't remember any of the billboards cuz they're all generic. It's just a generic, it's a billboard. That's like the Warren Buffett quote. Everyone does that on Instagram and everywhere, right? There's there's Warren Buffett's face and then one quote he's done on a billboard, literally on a billboard. And you're like, "Oh, yeah." And then you just go past it, you know, forget it

01:29:21

ever again. So, billboard content is like the worst content cuz it's it's not even specific and it's literally for everyone. So, like, that's like the worst type of content you can do, but because it, you know, billboard content markets to Earth, it can get a lot of views. This is the zero-money-making content. Like, this is the dog meme. It does nothing. Right. >> It's like people really relate to it. So, billboard content is kind of bad. Then there's content that's like, you

01:29:43

know, it's for them, but it's generic. So, for them and generic is like a fortune cookie. So, when you go to Chinese restaurant, >> [laughter] >> you sit down and you have the meal, right at the end. Obviously, this is in Australia, I don't know if it happens in the rest of the world, but like you get the fortune cookie at the end, you open it up, and you read it, and you're like, "Oh my god, this has so much meaning. Like, this is this is this is me." But then you read the other fortune cookie

01:30:06

and you're like, "Oh, this is also for me. So, I would say [laughter] that the Warren Buffett billboard is that, but the the fortune cookie is is probably more the dog meme. Right. Still generic. >> It's like generic, but it like has a lot of meaning to you. Like it actually has meaning and you're like, "Oh, my dog was doing that today." It's like But it doesn't have any like brand correlation at all and it's not for anyone specific. >> Okay. And it's a bit of a mirage. It

01:30:27

might not be real. Yeah, it's not real, but it it kind of feels good. It's It's great. Everyone loves fortune cookies. No one doesn't like them. And then the one on the bottom right is like a specific and then for them content. This is my most hated content and I literally bought a prop for this because it's the worst [ __ ] content ever. And this is the content that everybody puts out. So, this is the content >> Generic brochure for a real estate company. >> that photo? Like what

01:30:50

>> [laughter] >> is that? My wife said to me, she's like, "What's that? Who approved that photo?" Like The emerging hotspot first-timers and investors are betting on. Very generic. Yeah, it's it's it's terrible. It's like it's I have no desire to read this. >> Yeah, so this is the real estate brochure. And so, you know, you you you take this out of your letterbox, right? And you're like, in the bin. You're like, "See you later." [laughter] That's

01:31:10

just what everybody does. Like it's And that's the content that people say the the 10 mistakes every CEO makes. That's like, you know, you may be an expert, but there's no specificity in the thing and so it's it's like it's specific, but it's for everyone. So, it is specific. Like you are a real estate company. You do sell that. But like say something on the front like about, you know, Miller Street or something like that. Like a some specific place >> Yeah. that people understand. Or put a

01:31:36

photo on the front about the Kirribilli Markets. If you're in like something where people are like, oh, I know going through there. You know what I mean? Or like what about the maybe if you're going to do Kirribilli, the runners that all get together there. Well, I have an idea for a for a headline. It's like, what if it said uh buy your dream house uh for under a thousand dollar deposit? Yeah, that's a pretty good headline. I don't know if I don't know if you could do that, but

01:31:58

>> It'll be a satire one, but Yeah, [laughter] yeah, but then you just you're definitely going to open it and be like, "Huh, How do I do that?" >> Yeah, so if you can do something funny where it should be like uh how an Aussie couple bought a house in the Northern Beaches for $1.3 million in 2026 and then the first page opens and it's like, "Psych." >> [laughter] >> But here's what you can really do about it. >> here's what you can really do.

01:32:16

>> gaslighting you the whole time. >> [laughter] >> This is This is us speaking at like content level. This is like This is like headline level. We're speaking to Brandon is. Keep going. >> but uh but like the real estate brochure is like really bad. And this is the the the expert but with no substance content. It's like this is everywhere. It's the worst content. No one your opinion your opinion does matter, but you're not specific enough. And so like you're like, "Here's the big five

01:32:40

leadership hacks that every CEO needs to do." But like tell the person that you've actually worked with Fortune 500 CEOs like XYZ. So like say something instead like, you know, the five leadership hacks I've found out from spending 300 hours with 17 Fortune 500 CEOs. Well, then oh, that's not Yeah, I'm listening to that. It's very different. So like So the best content is one that's specific and for them. Yeah. Like it's specific and it's for you that when they

01:33:10

read it, they're like, "Thank you for producing that." And the only way you can write something that's like "Thank you for producing that." would be like, let's pretend that your kids are going to go to school soon. I don't know if they are, but like let's say the the post comes up and it's like the the seven worst schools to send your kids if you're within the North Sydney district uh because of the the lies that they've told about XYZ. And you'd be

01:33:32

like, "Ooh, I need to read this." You know what I mean? Like you It's like this is so specific for me. And like, "Thank you for telling me this information, although it might be dangerous for you to say." Right. So it's like you need to your content has to be the only way to unclog someone's toilet is to be specific. And it feels like it is for them. So your content needs to feel like that to the person, but the only way for it to feel like that is you need to use

01:33:54

tribal words so that they recognize themselves in the content. And then when you do that, then you get That's when you get people going like, "Holy S, that's me." Mhm. That You literally describe my life. And so when I'm thinking about content, I like to think in like frameworks like this. And so you want to think through, okay, is your content a billboard? Can anybody understand it now? Is it like a real estate brochure where it's like it's just kind of like all about you? It's

01:34:17

like That's how you That's how I feel about the real estate brand. It's always about the real estate. You know, I don't really want Like it it has a not a good Yeah, I don't care about your BMW and your nice suit. What do I get? Yeah, and I'm sure the real estate people are really nice people, but like that's just the stigma or the feeling that the marketing gives off. It doesn't feel personal. Like I don't care about the drone shot that's going through the

01:34:35

[ __ ] house. Like all I care is that you're a nice person and you respond to my phone calls. Like that's It's really personable. And then the fortune cookie content is like the dog meme. It's like It's great. We all get it and it gets lots of likes and stuff and people have a strong emotional pull to it, but it's not going to make money. Mhm. It's like the the The example of fortune cookie content is there's a guy, an Australian guy on Instagram, who does like voice impressions. So it's like him

01:34:59

and his partner and he'll like dress up as like uh, you know, Bane from Batman. And he'll just go next to him and be like, "Hello." Like do that thing. And it's like it's great. It's super funny. I relate to it. I love um whatever thing I was Batman, but like it's not really correlated to anything. This is a key distinction you're making here. So people might engage with it, they might like it, it might have tribe language, it might resonate. However, there's a missing mechanism

01:35:23

that can convert the sale. And it's It does It does not for them. It still hits you nostalgia, Right. but it's for anyone. Mhm. And so it's got to be like when you're selling something that's expensive, the person's got to feel that like I will pay you money for this. Yeah. Like I'll actually pay you money for this thing. And like especially when you get in the realms of like entertainment content and stuff like that. They They're not What are you going to pay that person for? Like I

01:35:47

don't expect to pay them for anything. >> going to pay them perform as a comedian or something like that. >> different. Totally different. But I know what you're saying. So so we talk a lot about making good content. How do we measure if the content's actually good and actually an unclogged toilet piece of content? Yes, do you get leads? >> [laughter] >> Like like for for LinkedIn in particular, it's did you get your ideal clients view your profile or send you a

01:36:11

connection request? Okay. >> Or engage in the content. Did they DM you? Did they Is there something where they wanted to talk to you further? And obviously like if you market to CEOs of big companies or if you market to if you're a career coach showing people how to quit their job, of course they're not going to engage on your content. Like their their employer is going to see, but they'll view your profile and send you a connection request. And you should have people like DMing you being like,

01:36:37

"Wow, that really resonated with me." Like the reactions. You can also tell from the content, the comments underneath, if the comments have tribal language. So if your content is tribal language, so if Bec someone that I works with, if she markets to rural Australian agriculture, if you go to her comments, there's farmers in there talking about like things I don't understand. And so like if you're getting the tribal language in the comments, that's how you know you're

01:37:02

actually hitting. The best content is like contrarian content where people argue on the content and they bring up your content even more. Why is the best type of content where you can create an argument? You don't want to like a visceral political religious argument. It's not that. It's like you want to say something where it's like you have a firm opinion about this. And so that you either like think about like a magnet. Magnet has two sides, positive and negative. So like you either want to

01:37:28

push people away or pull people towards you. You don't want the messy middle where you've got the really bad client you don't like working with but you can't fire them because they're too big of a retainer. You don't want that. Like you either want to pull people towards you who like love you or really don't get people like you. And I know this about myself like a guy I know, Shawn, I've known for a few years. He's in a lot of circles like in Sydney, he networking events. He's like, "Matt, I

01:37:49

know how your content hits." He's like, "Whenever I talk to someone, they they either have one or two opinions of you." He's like, "They either really like you or they have a not very good opinion about you." And so, that's cuz I've like put my stuff out there, but then that means you attract your tribe harder. Like the tribe of people that you're after. That comes into like, you know, not just like going into tribes and then you becoming like a character brand and

01:38:08

how you can like create your own tribal identity and stuff, which is beyond the scope of this, but like it matters like a lot. And so, if you're not getting these people coming in, a lot of the time it means is you're just not marketing to tribes. And so, cuz and I from the beginning, an ICP, ideal client profile, ideal client persona, is something that a marketer or a person said, "Well, these are the people we've got to go after, so we have to group them together." And whenever in history

01:38:34

you've ever decided to just randomly group people together with no tribal things, stuff good stuff doesn't happen. Like just think back in history. Someone's like, "Let's just create this cut here." Good things don't happen like when that happens. So, you want to find tribes who are already self-selected and just sell to the self-selected tribe until you can get a big enough personal brand that you create your own tribe. So, Diary of a CEO, Steven Bartlett created his own

01:39:00

tribe. Yeah. He the people who watch Diary of a CEO, we have the language we can talk about. Like you probably have it with this podcast. Like you probably have a tribe of like they can talk about the nuances of the episode from this. And so, that's you forming your own tribe, and then people start speaking your language. But when you're especially starting marketing online, you don't want to do that. It's bizarre. We we have we now have viewing parties for our show. Sick. >> We're like-minded people meet once a

01:39:24

[laughter] week and they watch the episode together. It's it's epic. Shout out to all you guys in the viewing parties. Uh love you guys. All right. Now, I want to segue into DMs cuz you said something interesting before we started filming today, and you said that you see the DMs, the cold DMs that you used to outreach to people on LinkedIn as a form of content. Can you explain what you mean? Definitely. So, cold DMs and content are exactly the same thing. Exactly the same? >> Yes. You're going to have to fight me on

01:39:55

this. Definitely. So, like content, well, let's say selling content, like the purpose of the DM, like when you create content, it's creating it one to many. So, you're marketing to a lot of people, but as a copywriter, you should be always addressing it to one person. I see. So, when you write content, like a really great way to write content about your best client you've ever had who you've helped, and then you start writing content, you say, "Dear Tom." And then you start writing. And you're

01:40:18

addressing it to Tom. And so, when you're doing a DM content, you're looking for tribal recognition, unclog toilet, to really help them out. When I write cold DMs, and I've got a few examples, like I wrote cold DMs to Frank Greath, Nathan Barry, um Ali Abdaal, like a few a few other people, Christo, like really big people. That's how I've gotten on every single podcast, including this one, ever, is cuz I've just cold DM'd people. The cold DM is the same, it's just that it's more you

01:40:46

have to curate the piece to that very specific person. Yeah. And so, the tribe dossier document that I'll give away is to create the tribe, but I'd I'd create the Dane dossier document. Do the everything research about Dane. And so, like I like one of my friends, I coached him in the past couple weeks. He was like, "Hey dude, like um I've got a few weeks free to do some work. I need to get some clients." We're eating tacos at SoCal in Neutral Bay. And I was like, "Well, let's just send some DMs right

01:41:11

now and get some clients." He's like, "All right." And I so sat with him and I Who are two of the 10 best people? These people? All right, these Who are these two? Wrote two cold DMs for him, analyzed them and stuff, and he closed 68K in a week and a half. Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. >> Four massive clients. Wow, just from DMs? Just from DM. Every big deal I've ever done in my entire life has been through a DM. A cold DM? To someone you want to work with? Just cold DM. Like I

01:41:35

like I I DM'd Yeah, so Nathan Barry owns ConvertKit. It's worth hundreds of millions of dollars. I just like I want I was like I want to get on this guy's podcast. And so I just like researched him, went through it, wrote a DM 5 minutes, came back to me straight away. >> Can you can you outline what that would look and sound like for people watching this right now? I can just pull up the actual DM. Do you want to do that? >> Yeah. All right. So, for those that are listening, we're going to pull up the

01:41:57

actual DM All right, let me >> that got you on one of the most viral podcasts. I'll do Frank Grese's one cuz that's really short. The other ones are like quite long. We can show a long one, that's fine. Yeah. So, the context of this Frank had a podcast. I don't think he still does it, but it was called Chew the Fat. Yep. And like where he interviewed people and they're really really successful Australian entrepreneurs. I think he still does, yeah. I think he still does.

01:42:17

>> And I went on there twice and it was sick. Um but uh so he had this podcast and I was like man, that's the very first good podcast I went on cuz I was like I need to get on a notable podcast because if I get on one where I'm in person and it's good production quality, I can use that to send to other podcasts they can look to see I'm like I can actually speak on camera. >> Yes. It's a big fear. Success attracts success. Yeah, and I know that being a podcast like who runs a podcast,

01:42:41

the whole you just want to line up the best guests. Like that's what and guests that will like, you know, the audience will like and that's the goal. So, when I saw Frank's thing, I saw he had Tom Noske on his podcast. Really funny. As I got out of the cab here over here, I was on the phone to Tom Noske. >> [laughter] >> And I come in the thing. Yeah, he's coming on he's coming on here. We're excited we're excited to have him. But um so I was chatting so I saw Tom on his

01:43:02

pod and Tom helps with Instagram similar to what I do with LinkedIn. So, I was like, okay, well if he's got Tom on there for Instagram, he's probably going to want a LinkedIn person. So, then I was like, okay, how do I frame and put together this DM to send to Frank so he's going to want me on? So, I did a few things. I researched his personality type. I saw that he's a high D on a DISC, so it means he's very dominant, extremely fast and quick to action things and doesn't mess around.

01:43:25

And so like and you would know that from his personality type. Go go go go right. That's that's who he is. >> Yeah. We work We work for Frank on two of his projects. He's he's epic, tons of fun, Massive action taker. So yeah, super action taker, really really fast. So I was like, I know what this guy's going to respect and he's a sales guy that he built his last company. He's going to respect a pitch and speed. So I was like, okay. So the way I wrote this was I personalized this content to

01:43:48

Frank. So the hook was Tom's pod was dope. So Tom, just cuz the pod just went out and I said dope because he's Australian. Mhm. So he immediately is going to be hooked in cuz he just uploaded Tom's pod was dope. And it also shows that I listened and I did research. Second line is just thought I'd connect just like I'm connecting. Then I I could probably could have actually probably taken that line out. Then I said, also think I might potentially be a guest that would be valuable. Cuz like they want to get

01:44:16

good guests. My pitch in 170 characters. So I just wanted to throw him off in some like line that was just kind of like funny. And I counted the characters after. >> [laughter] >> And so I said, number one lead gen expert in Australia, number one in in the world on all social media, 3.5 million a year LinkedIn biz, 100% organic, I can fly to you. So I added that in where I was like, okay. >> all friction, you got straight to the point and you deleted all the fluff. Yeah, just to be like

01:44:41

>> now you're saying I you could delete the thought I'd connect. Yep, I could delete that. And so cuz I knew with this personality type, that's what he'd he'd want. And so and also cuz he'd seen had Tom on there, I could research that that's what he wanted. And then I said, number one expert in Australia, number one in the world on all social media for like lead gen. I said [clears throat] how much our business earns per year so he kind of has some cuz I could just be

01:45:02

a content creator with no business mind and then he'd be like, that might not be the greatest content. Although not I'm saying it wouldn't be, but just so you know what he wants. >> positioning yourself as like, I'm a good guest if you like this type of content. >> can talk business and content. Which I think that's his podcast he was getting on successful Australian entrepreneurs. Yes. >> That's what he was doing. And so I said LinkedIn biz and he's like, oh LinkedIn.

01:45:23

And I said it's 100% organic. So not ads. Right. So he'd be like, how do you get to the 3 and 1/2 million year organic?" >> You're creating questions that he wants to answer. >> Yeah. And then I said, "I can fly to you." I didn't actually know he was in Curacao. I I should have researched it, but I just said, "I can fly to you." Smiley face. Yeah. >> Cuz it's just like a thing. And he just comes back, "Best 170 character pitch I've ever seen. Let's do it." And we

01:45:43

just booked it in for that week. >> He's such an action taker, dude. Straight to the punchline. Yeah, but it was just like that was an example of like So, so I curated this piece of content to put into Frank Greaves' DM feed. >> Right. So, that's why. And so, that you know >> epic. Now, can you show me a another example that's maybe more nuanced? Cuz right, this is specific to So, so Nathan Barry, so so April 4th, 2025. Right. So, and so, this was when I was like, I wanted to

01:46:10

get on his podcast. I still want to go back. I just haven't been to the US in the time, and he does certain filming times. Uh so, I said, "Hey Nathan, just watching your podcast with Tiffany right now. I didn't realize you were interviewing coaches." So, I said, "I'm just doing it right now." This is really key because you want to create serendipity. What do you mean by serendipity? Fate. It's fate. This happened just by a stroke of luck. So, serendipity is like

01:46:36

every movie you watch, and all of a sudden the magic happens. It's like I'm trying to create this, and if you say I just did this, like one of my best LinkedIn hooks were it was a satire post, "I just got off the phone with LinkedIn's internal team." People like, "Oh, what is this?" It's just a satire post. They're like >> [laughter] >> But it's like, "I just did this." Yeah. So, if I do that, and I said, "I didn't realize you were interviewing coaches."

01:46:58

Cuz like, I didn't realize. I was like, "Oh [ __ ] this is like a coach." And then I said, "I'm heading over to the US next week and would love to jump on the show." So, I'm like, "I'm heading to the US. I'm already going, so like I can fit this into this time window. Here's my shortest pitch of all time." And so, then I just like went through like I'm number one ranked in Australia, blah blah blah blah, and I just did book this many calls, you know, I've done

01:47:22

this, trained with Taki Moore, guy who coached these people. 2 weeks ago I also ran this and did this this this. So, I'm just like showing that like here's some stuff that I can do. I like how you're calling out like I'm about to pitch you as well. Cuz some people don't do that and it's annoying. Yeah. Cuz then you start reading it as though it's a DM and you're like, "Oh, it's a pitch." Yeah, you want to you want to be But if you tell them it's a pitch,

01:47:41

there's there's more respect. Yeah, cuz then they then if they read more, they have given you permission to pitch them. Exactly. So, if you say it's like the best cold call one of the best cold call openers is like, "Hey Dane, it's Matthew Cave calling for 7 Figure Creators. Dane, this is totally a cold call. Do you have a couple minutes to hear the reason for the call?" And you're like, "Okay." So, like you're giving permission. So, so like I'm I'm streaking with

01:48:03

permission in the beginning. Right. >> like I'm saying what this is. Yeah. And then I'm just giving like all my credentials cuz I just know that I'm just like, "Hey, I'm going to pitch you. I'm just going to shove it all in here." Like, you know? So, you don't have to like I'm trying to I'm trying to say he doesn't have to like gut check me. Yeah. And then I said, "Oh oh, that was a bit longer than I thought." And if you wanted to see how I am in per live in

01:48:21

person, I just shot this 2 weeks ago with Frank Kern. And I just linked the YouTube video. Yeah. So, I was just like and so I had referenced Frank who's also someone >> you're like, "Here's evidence." >> Yeah, here's evidence of this. And so, for him I just like I don't have to create something for him to think. I want him to read this and be like, "Yes." Okay. So, what are the key parameters of things that you need to be conscious of? One is don't create friction, don't make

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them work too hard for it. What else? >> I got the seven principles in the book we can go through. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Do you want to read them out real quick? >> Yeah, I can just read them out. So, let me go. The seven There's three layers and seven moves. So, move one is tribal recognition. Okay. It's to show that you're you're from that tribe. Like like you you understand the world. Like so, you have to kind of signify that. Tom's pod was dope. Dope is Australian Tom's pod.

01:49:09

I've already I just signaled to Frank that I'm in the Aussie tribe. And I've actually consumed your stuff. So, like tribal recognition is like the first thing. The second thing is what you would say before, honest naming. So, it's like either saying we've I we've never met or I know this is kind of weird or it's totally a cold DM. Just call it out. Just say what it is cuz permission-based marketing is like amazing. You just ask someone's permission. So, you're like, "Hey, this

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is this." So, that means if they read down, it was their decision to read it. And so, they gave you the permission even though you already knew they were going to do that anyway. And so, they're your honest naming. The next one is specificity in their words. So, just proving you're actually been in their world, not your words, their words. So, you're like understanding them. Like So, they're kind of like I could go through a science of this. This will take too long. But like proving it's in their

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words. There's another layer which is just like, "Okay, we need to also make sure that I'm inside their world." So, inside their world is like for Frank's one, I was like, "I've done this thing." And so, I've been in the content world and I get it. Like I've like it's the parent one. Where you said before like if I'm not going to listen to anyone's advice unless they're a parent. And so, you're like and they're like, "No, I've If someone's like, 'Oh,

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I've had a I've got 10 kids.' You're like, 'I'm going to listen to you.'" >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Like it's like you I've really been inside the world. You've got scars. You know, you've got scars. And so, you're showing to show that you've got scars and you're a Jedi. Then the next move is like unclog the toilet. So, you want to give them something or present something to them that they're like you've just unexpectedly delighted them

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out of nowhere. So, for Frank or Nathan, I'm like, "I'm I'm going to be an amazing guest on your show. Let's do this." Yeah. And so, for a pod Someone who owns a podcast, that's I know I know it's the number one thing that you want to get is good guests. You just want You just want people to intro you and line you up with good guests because you're like, "That's all I want." Like that's that's what grows the podcast. >> I agree. I think the bane of most

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podcasts' existence is a continual flow of good, creative, nuanced guests that know what they're doing. Exactly. And if you can position yourself as that, you're you're a shoe-in. Yeah, exactly. And so, I knew that and so, I was like, "That's something that I'm presenting." Then the next part is like, "Okay, what is the gift that I'm going to give them. So Frank said I'll fly to you. That's the gift. I'll I'll just come to you. What other gifts are there other

01:51:19

than flying to someone? You make a a 3-minute Loom video for someone. I've got another one in here which I won't share, but there was a sales trainer, John Barros, one of the best sales trainers that everyone knows about, but like I sent him a Loom video and Loom video was like, here's why your LinkedIn profile sucks and here's how you can improve your funnel. It was in 2 minutes. So I was like he was like he and he responded back saying, that's the best turn DM I've ever received. And so it

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was like something that was like I'm just giving something to you for nothing. And then the last bit is just the permission close. If not totally sweet. Or would you be keen or just let me know. Just no pressure. Just like I don't care. Like nonchalant. And so if you just end it with that. So like it's a it's a structure where I've like I pulled out, you know, five of these DMs that I've sent and there's a structure each year. So if you just recreate this and then I then you just test against

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science psychologically what actually works. So you want to make it so good the person reads it and they're like they just nod. Okay. Now what's the difference between pitching yourself as a guest for a podcast and then uh convincing someone to give you time to then sell them a product or a service? Zero. There's nothing. It's like you you just got to find the thing that they want. >> The same recipe, different words. >> do this all the time. I used to cold call people and I used I booked 150

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calls meetings cold calling and I'd say, hey, this is Matthew Cave calling from Telisense. Uh it's totally a cold call, but I'll speak to Anthony from MyWatch who's 200 km up the road. You got a couple minutes to hear the reason for the call? Oh yeah, I know [clears throat] it's me, I'm in the world, whatever. And then I'm just like yeah, so like uh I know you got a 10,000 page Telstra bill sitting on your desk. You've been looking at that for months. You have no idea what they're talking

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about. The Telstra reps are telling you everything, but you're still wondering why you got a $50,000 bill. We do an indigenous Australian rural health care to telephone bill audit. We'll take all your bills and we'll audit them completely for free and we'll show you how much you can save. Anthony did it up the road. We saved him about 30 grand a month uh and he hasn't even got a new phone system or anything. It's just off Telstra's books. I was wondering can we me a call tomorrow at 9:00 or 11:00. I

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can just show you how it's done. And so and the whenever they receive the call, they'd be like, "Sure." And they're just like, "Let's meet." And then like they'd meet up and be like, "This was crazy." And so you're just trying to like, how do I do something for someone that's just like so good that they're like, "I can't even believe that you just did that." But you have to you have to know the tribe you're marketing to to be able to do that.

01:53:28

Because if you don't, you don't know what they find valuable. Matt, it's always a pleasure sitting down with you and looking at how you unpack problems. And this is some stuff I'm immediately going to steal and implement for myself. [laughter] Uh I keep looking at my team and uh winking at them that we need to steal this. Uh Matt, last question we ask the guests this every time. We asked you this previously. Um but in conclusion, I'm a guy who runs an agency who is all about taking massive

01:53:56

agency. Yeah. When you think about taking agency, what does taking agency mean to you in the context of going out there, making content and creating your own leads? I've thought about this a lot. So just taking agency, making content, getting your own leads, it's just it's just realizing that the only way to learn is by taking action and then having experiences. Like it's it's there if we we talked about ones and binary, ones and zeros before. So let's say the indigenous

01:54:27

Australians, how did they learn? They just did stuff. Like the only way to learn is actually do stuff and then have actual real world experiences. Like and use AI as a tool to help you do stuff. So like unless you have the experiences of doing things and just I don't see it as like how to take more agency. Be like, "Well, it won't work if you don't. It's impossible." Mhm. So you don't actually have an option. Like you just you have to. And so you just have to take massive action and do things that

01:54:56

other people would deem weird and crazy and they will judge you because they will make make feel insecure themselves if they see you doing it. And so anything that I find you know, if whenever you do something if you feel a little bit cringe or a little bit weird, that's usually the right thing to do because 99% of other people wouldn't decide to do that. Why would they subject themselves to pain? No one does that. So you have to kind of do the opposite of what human biology does, which is like openly

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subject yourself to pain. Like kind of like exercising. And just do that repeatedly over and over and just thinking to yourself and knowing that like by doing this I'm doing what everyone else doesn't so I will get further ahead. Matt, it's always a pleasure my dude. Thanks. Thank you so much for being here and I'm sure we'll have you back on again. Cheers.

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