18 Years On Camera: The Power Of Being Your Own Biggest Fan | Brittney Saunders

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How do I get people to like me? >> That's how you're going to build a community is by getting people to like you. >> Britt's story is a modern-day fairy tale. >> making content for 18 years. So, it's been 18 years of me talking to a camera. >> Wow. From content creator to this fashion empire. A lot of people don't see the value in creating organic [music] content because it doesn't like automatically convert to sales. They get all the products, they do the photo

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shoot, they launch, and they're like, "Where's the orders?" Cuz no one knows who you are. I like me, [music] I'm proud of what I'm doing, I think I'm hilarious, like I'm cracking up at my own videos, then you're going to be unstoppable. If people are like, "I work for Britney Saunders. Oh, what's she really like in real life?" We're running a business here, you know? It's skill, it's your brain, it's a bit of strategy, and then

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it's sprinkled with a tiny bit of luck. Do you disagree? [laughter] I agree with you. Like when you try it and then you do it and it works, it then gives you that little bit more confidence to do the next thing. Like I'm in my [music] 30s now and I've figured out life totally on my own. If I could have my life [music] any other way, I would 100% have a mom and dad that have been in my life for my whole life. How has that made you feel? I haven't ever said [music] this before, but I feel like this is a safe place to

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say it cuz we're like at the end of the podcast. This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio. Here at The Agency Podcast, we're building a community and we would love for you guys to be a part of it. So, we would love to hear from you. What are you enjoying the most? What would you like to see more of? And what do you think might be missing? Drop a comment, make sure you subscribe, and now, on with the show. Britney Saunders, welcome back to The Agency Podcast. Good to see you again. >> for having me back.

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>> you're an omni-channel queen, which is what I'm deciding to call you for today. You have two podcasts, you have a fashion label named Fate, which is an online e-commerce brand that now has five physical stores across Australia, and you often personally design a lot of the clothes yourself, as well as manage fulfillments, and you're seemingly across the entirety of your business. You're super hands-on, which is which is very impressive. Was this a conscious plan at the start,

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or is this entrepreneurial chaos? Ooh, I think it's chaos. >> [laughter] >> Um, I think, you know, like we had someone new join our office team like last year, and she said to me, you know, cuz like we have a lot of employees that have been with us for a really long time, and so like when someone new joins, it's always like cool to have like a fresh perspective. And one of the things that she said to me in her first few weeks of employment was, "I can't believe how much you're here."

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>> [laughter] >> And I was like, "Oh, really?" Because, you know, when you're in a business and you just been doing the things the way that you do them, it just feels normal. And so that really stood out to me having someone new come into my business and say, "You're here all the time. Like I didn't expect to see you." And that's so interesting to me because I guess for me it's always been that way. I've always been there and been so involved with Fate that like that seems

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like the norm to me. But then, you know, um, I think it's made me be understanding and aware of like how different every business out there can be. You know when like you're in your own business and it's your bubble. You don't ever like think of like how another >> insulated in your world. Yeah, like and especially because we're in Newcastle, which is like 2 hours north of Sydney. It's like a regional city, and like we're just like in our own Fate little world in Newcastle, you know? So like I

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don't really get out much. >> [laughter] >> It looks like you're doing a lot, but you're doing it inside your bubble. Yeah, I'm in my little Newcastle bubble and I think the reason why I'm so involved um like with every kind of nook and cranny of Fate, which we can talk about more because I'm starting to learn that I can't be. But I think the reason why I'm so involved in the way that I'm in the office 5 days a week working with everyone on my team is because like it

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started in my garage me by myself. But you know, like when you start a business yourself, it's small and it's personal, right? There was once upon a time back in the day where I was, you know, packing orders in my shed downstairs. Like we lived in this townhouse thing that had the garage at the bottom and we moved the cars out and that's where I set up the business. And so I hired my first casual employee to come and work there at my house with me like 3 days a week and like her job was customer

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service emails, helping me pack the orders, you know, organizing the stock which was just in a few plastic tubs on the ground. We were doing photo shoots in the garage. Like I taught myself how to do e-com photography and got a backdrop off, you know, eBay or whatever it was back then. From back then until now like Fate has come leaps and bounds, you know, we've had like four different warehouses and like open all the stores, but like I've been the one I guess to drive all of those changes over the

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years. So I've naturally stayed within kind of every area of the business and always been so involved and I think it also comes down to genuinely being passionate about what we do. I think there would be a lot of businesses out there where maybe the CEO and founder has nothing to do with any of anything that's happening cuz they're the founder and the owner, you know, and maybe they're never in the office and they come to a visit once in a while and it's like, "Oh, the boss is here, you

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know?" But cuz I've just been there, you know, and obviously like been part of Fate's growth or being responsible for like all the big leaps that we've made in those eight and a half years that I'm still in 2026 like so involved with the business like you know and then most weeks my customer service girl will come up and ask me a question the same way you know our operations manager will message me every day and ask me questions or we'll meet and you know work together so I'm very much

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very involved as a CEO and founder. I think anyone else in a similar position to me would tell me that I'm stupid for being that. >> Mhm. Why do you think they would say that? In a sense it gets to a point where like a business gets to a certain size where you kind of have to move out of the way. Which can be really hard to do when it's your pride and joy. You know what I mean? >> You're giving me goosebumps cuz I I know what you mean. >> Yeah. Where you're starting to realize

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you're slowing things down. Yeah and like slowing myself down. Mhm. Um and it's like a big realization that I've kind of had like I want to say like in the last yeah maybe six to 12 months and you can't just like flick a switch and overnight be out of the picture. You know what I mean especially when you're so involved but one thing that we're really working on at the moment internally and you know with our leadership team is kind of really building that structure within our

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leadership team so that I'm not feeling like I have to be so involved you know with every single aspect of the business kind of thing and that so you know I'm just working with maybe like the key one or two people that I need to work with who are in the leadership team and they then go and spread the message to the rest of the team. Whereas you know typically or historically it would just be me going hey let's do a crazy sale like you know and I'll go straight to the social media girl and be like quick let's make

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a TikTok like you know. So yeah it's one thing that we're working on actively at the moment is like I don't want to say separating myself from the business, but kind of creating that little bit more distance so that yeah, I'm not slowing things down or holding myself back from doing the things that I actually want to focus on because you know, I work in the office every day. I love working with my team and when I'm there, you know, all day, it's like, "Hey Britt, what do you

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think of this? Hey Britt, can we have a chat? Hey Britt, hey Britt." And like I love that and I thrive like doing that with my team, no matter who it is, you know, in the office, but then the end of the day comes and I go home and then I work on the things that I want to work on at night. Whereas, you know, this far into my journey and where Fate is at, I'm really learning that I need to be spending those working hours working on the things that I want to work on, which ultimately are going to move the

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business forward. Because if I'm just collaborating with my team every day, which I love doing, I'm not going to like get anywhere. I'm kind of slowing things down. So, that's like something that we're literally working on as we speak. Do you think this has come up suddenly or has this been something that's been playing out slowly in the background? Playing out slowly in the background, I think. Um and realizing it the more and more I watch my leaders grow in the business.

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Like seeing them step up more and like take responsibility and um build out more structure, it's when I'm realizing like I need to get out of the business, but not in that way, you know what I mean? But I need to like let them do what they are going to be great at, but if I'm there, it can almost be like I'm in the way. You can be a crutch sometimes for your team, meaning that if you're the person who's been there longer with the deeper relationships, people go to you, but if you are now

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absent, then they'll go to the leaders and give them the opportunity to do something similar. When you're thinking about this as a dynamic, has there been fears surrounding this as well? How do I navigate this in a way where it doesn't create too much disruption? Absolutely. I think one of the fears that I have always had as well, and this is something that I've 100% brought on myself. And I think a lot of founders, especially when you've been such a big part of the the growth of any business,

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is I feel like if I'm not visible every day to everyone, that people will assume that I don't care. Or like, where is she? What is she doing? You know? And that's like a fear that I think a lot of founders, or maybe not some. Like there might be some founders out there that go this, I own this place, I'm going to do whatever I want, and I don't care. Whereas I have that personal feeling of like, if I you know, am not in the office, it's something I've like gotten more okay

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with. Like for example, I'm here in Sydney today with you, and I'm not in the office, which I'm fine with. Like the team know where I am and what I'm doing. Whereas maybe like 2 years ago, I would have felt so guilty that I'm not there working with them. And yeah, I think it's a normal thing for people to experience. >> relate. Yeah. >> Yeah, there's been times where I've traveled overseas or whatever, uh, and I just a part of me feels super guilty, like I'm letting the team down. They're

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working hard, and I'm not. Like I should be there helping, and like we rarely go on a holiday, and when we do, like before we go, like it's something I need to work on, but I'll always be like, "Contact me anytime. Like I have my phone on me the whole time. My laptop is with me." Like just say we're going to Fiji for a week or something. And like my team will just be like, "Go on the holiday, and go away." Whereas I'll be like, "No, but if something goes

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wrong, like you can call me. If you need it help, if you need advice on something, like just let me know." Um, so again, that's something that like I need to work on, like just letting go. And if you want to start a business and grow it to a a certain size, and then go be on a beach every day and drink a cocktail, you can. Like you're allowed to do that, but I think we struggle like cuz you feel guilty. And like you just want to work hard with your team. I I like that you're talking about your

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team in such an endearing way cuz I know you love what you do. You love collaboration. You love being in many places at once and interconnecting people and working on projects and and having fun while you work. If you're thinking about the concept of getting in your own team's way, how have you seen entrepreneurs do this and how do you feel like it is impeding upon you growing your company at this point? I think it just adds an extra layer. I think my situation as well is unique um in a way where

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I'm a business owner and a founder and I'm running a company, but I also have like a public social profile. But I think like my situation in particular and something that I'm always trying to balance um is like before I started my business like I was obviously that YouTuber and like had lots of followers and like I still have that audience. And like what I do now is like a lot of business content, but I think it is it makes for a really interesting dynamic in a workplace to be you know the boss

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and someone who's serious about what you're doing, but then I've got this like fun um internet persona. And like nine times out of 10 or 9.9 times out of 10 if someone new is coming and starting in our office, of course they know who I am. They probably follow me on social media. Maybe they've followed me for years. And so balancing that like being someone's boss but having this whole like internet persona where obviously when you follow someone online, you have a perception of who

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they are and you feel like you know them kind of thing. And it's just a really interesting thing to navigate, you know, being someone's boss and then being a social media personality. And I've definitely like run into a lot of instances over the years where I've questioned that if like wouldn't that have happened if I didn't have that social media profile or you know if I was AJ, my partner, like would this person have said what they said to me? I think it it just throws a spanner in the

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works that makes it a really interesting dynamic and even just like the littlest of things like you know, I'll have people working on my team in the office and you know, they'll go oh, all my friends have been asking what you're really like. You know what I mean? Cuz like if if people are like I work for Britney Saunders, oh, what's she really like in real life? And that in itself is like so weird, but I understand because when your online personality, like that's what people see

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you as. They don't see you as a business owner and someone's boss, but that's very much what I am at work. Like I'm not Britney Lee Saunders when I'm in the office. >> Yeah. Like I'm there doing work like working on my laptop every day, in meetings, on calls. Like there's no social media personality when I'm at work and I think that's like a really just interesting thing to navigate is like being known on social media and you know, if we're interviewing someone

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or someone new starts and I can immediately tell that obviously they know who I am and just trying to work that balance and boundary out of like yeah, I'm fun at work and we all get along, but I'm serious and like we're running a business here, you know? So >> thing to navigate because online you're obviously you're not faking it. There's not a facade, but it's a part of who you are. >> Yes, and I'm entertaining, you know? Whereas like you know, if someone comes let's say

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they got a job working in our social media team, you know, I'm not there to um entertain them the way that I entertain them on social media. Of course I'll be friendly and funny and nice, but I think it's just really like I have no other way to explain it other it's very interesting to, you know, be a social media personality and have a profile and then to be someone's boss. And I think that again kind of loops in with like being in the way of your staff. I think me, given my

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position on social media, adds an extra layer to that. It makes it more complicated. >> Yes. If you want to grow your agency, you need more than just a website builder. You need Wix Studio. The all-in-one platform that's built to help you scale. Design smarter in a hyper-flexible, responsive editor, cherry-picking whatever clients need from pre-built UI elements and templates. Deliver robust back-ends with built-in e-commerce solutions for every industry, letting self-maintaining infrastructure just run itself. Stop

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How do you think it's complicated the workplace having a social media presence to the likes of yours and then having to be a boss to someone at work? Um like I've definitely had my fair share of things said to me or things said behind my back over the years that's gotten back to me where I've definitely said, I wonder if that that person would have said that if I was a guy. Cuz like when you're a female in leadership, it's completely different. Like historically, women are not taken as

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seriously as men. Like that's proven, you know? So then I think adding in the social media profile and all the followers and the perception that people will get, that's going to make it difficult. And, you know, it might be like just to make up an example, let's say you're working for me and you are late uh all the time. And I like say to you, you know, like hey, like I noticed you're late. If you could just be on time, that would be awesome. And let's say like you keep being late. Like I'm just making up a

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scenario here. And let's say it gets to the point where we have to have a bit more of a formal conversation and I have to, you know, book a meeting and sit down. Not that I really do this anymore cuz like we've got lots of managers and leadership, but just making up a scenario. Let's say like then I I sat you down and I'm like, look, unfortunately, you keep being late or whatever it is that you're doing like in the workplace that's like not acceptable. Look, I'm going to have to, you know,

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either give you a verbal warning or a written warning. I think where it becomes really difficult for me to do something like that is people go, well, then she's a and nothing like she's like online. Yeah. And that's where the the balance is difficult to manage because they're like she's nothing like she is online. When I'm not my online self, I'm running a company. Yeah. But they blur, >> [laughter] >> you know? And not that I um like we've built my role into a

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position now and like I obviously have a really strong leadership team where I'm not really directly managing anyone. Therefore, I would never have to be in that situation where I'm sitting someone down and giving them, you know, a warning cuz they did something wrong. But like years ago, when I was kind of still really directly managing a lot of people, I feel like I definitely experienced that where like I've had to be serious with someone and like you never want to be serious with someone.

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You never want to have to give someone a a written warning or a formal chat. Like, you know, we just want everyone to get along and have a good time and do their job. But I think just yeah, given that social profile, I found it really hard. Um and like no one outwardly says it, but I think it's there. It's the elephant in the room that like it's really hard for me in the past to be serious with people and maybe have a formal conversation about their performance when I've got this online

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personality that's fun, you know, entertaining. Do you know what I'm saying? >> I I know exactly what you're saying. Yeah. >> And like I feel like it's probably not something that like a lot of people can obviously relate to because it's a unique position that I'm in where like I'm a very involved business owner and then also a very public profile. But, it's just something that I've just found really And I keep saying this word, but it's been really interesting to

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navigate. >> It's very interesting and I've I've had my own experiences as well. Um and and I I would agree with, you know, some of the dynamics between, you know, men and women in business as well. That's true. When when you think about the founder who might be running a company who's simultaneously thinking about I also need to go out and start building a personal brands. Yes. What has been your advice to founders who have made the decision to now put themselves out there publicly having

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already had a team put together cuz then the awkwardness goes the other way cuz then you're like, "Oh, now my team are going to think I'm weird for going out there." >> boss is making these stupid videos." Yeah. Man, so I think like it's pretty crazy that we live in this world now where basically if you're wanting to get into business, you've got to make content. >> I think so. Yeah, like it's gotten to that point whereas back in the day, that wasn't a thing. Run some newspaper ads.

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>> Exactly. Or have a shop and put a little menu out the front of like what's inside and people would read the menu and come in, you know? Social media, you know, it's like if you want to start a brand, you've also got to make content. And I think that's something that a lot of people struggle with because at the end of the day, one of the hardest things is content creation isn't for everyone. And what do you actually do if you just are not cut out for making content, but

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you want to start a business? You can start the business, but then you're probably going to get left behind. So, I think it's just a given now that like anyone going into business, they almost just have to know, I've got to make content. And so, my journey, I've obviously done it backwards, which I think has worked in my favor because I was making all the content before I got to the business part. Whereas now, like you said, people will have a business and maybe have a team and then they realize they

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need to start making content. My advice to anyone out there is if you're thinking of starting a business and it's like an idea, start making content now. Why should they start making content at the infancy of their business idea? Because I think a lot of people do all the other stuff first. They get their product, they build their website, they get all that stuff, you know, ready to go. And I think like a misconception that a lot of people can have when it comes to business is you can have like

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the drive and the excitement, you can want to, you know, start a business. Yeah, let's start an activewear brand. Like they get all the products, they do the photo shoot, they start, you know, build their Shopify website, and then they launch and they're like, "Where's the orders?" You know? Yeah. And like that's fair if people kind of expect then the orders to just come in naturally because you've done all the things to set the business up, but then you need to find the

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customers. And I think like setting up and starting a business from scratch is hard and it's expensive and it's a lot of work. Then you've got to find customers. Like people aren't just going to come and shop with you because you started. Like your friends and family might. Like I wouldn't expect them to because I think your customers are well beyond your friends and family. It's always nice to have support, of course. Um but you've then got to go find the customers. So, then people will get in

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that situation of like, "Oh, I better start making content then." But, it all just seems too hard cuz like they've already done so much hard work getting to that stage of being ready to launch. And then it becomes that like too hard basket thing. They're like, "I don't have time to make content." So, if I were not me or if I like hadn't done anything that I've done up until this point and I wanted to start a business today, I'd start I'd start that personal brand

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today. Like before I started my business journey because then and making content about whatever. Like it doesn't have to be about I'm starting a business. It could just be like posting vlogs or like just putting myself out there because then by the time you get to that launch, you might have a small audience of people that have been following along on your journey of whatever content it was that you were creating on TikTok. And then you can be like, "Hey everyone." Even if you've got 5,000 followers or 400 people

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watching every video that you upload, you've then got like a small pool of potential customers that you can then launch this business into and you're already in the routine of making content cuz making content is a routine and a habit. And you you have to make it a habit, I think. I I agree with you. It has to be something that is not a forced Yes. It needs to feel good when you're producing it. Otherwise, it just doesn't quite hit. Yeah. >> And I think like yeah, you have to make

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it a habit and routine and you almost have to fall in love with doing that. And that's why I'm so glad that I did my journey backwards. Like just for context, everyone, I started like posting on social media before e-com was even a thing. So, I'm just really lucky that I discovered YouTube in year seven and was like, "I'm going to do that." Like you know, it was before you could make money off it or anything. So, by the time like Instagram and all that came out, I was already making YouTube videos and I

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loved it. Like it was a hobby of mine and I just loved making the videos. So then it was just this natural progression of me, you know, downloading Instagram and using that when it came out and Snapchat and all the other things and TikTok. I did the journey backwards. So like I just fell in love with making the content and entertaining people and building a community online. And then, you know, when I launched my business, I had the community there. And people were like, "Ooh, it's easy for you to launch a

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business. Like you've already got a million subscribers on YouTube." I was like, "Yeah. Like that's not a lie. But just cuz I had a million followers doesn't mean that like I knew how to do a business cuz they're two completely different things. But it definitely, you know, worked to my advantage. Like understanding video content before launching my business cuz then I took everything I learned from building an audience and implemented that into my business. So yeah, if I was starting all over

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again, I would start today. Don't make be the last thing that you think of. It needs to be the first. And same goes, I guess, like let's say someone started a business and I haven't done any content. They've launched, they've got the website, the product, and everything. Then they go, "Okay, cuz I don't have the audience, I'm going to jump straight into doing some meta ads." And then they're spending money on meta ads, but the meta ads don't convert. And it's

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like that's cuz no one knows who you are. And I think a lot of people don't see the value in creating organic content because it doesn't like automatically convert to sales, but like I just see it like this, you know? So again, like if you're thinking of starting a business and you start posting content now and you're going to launch your business in a year from now, hopefully in that year you will build up that little community. So that when you launch your business, you've got those

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people there. Let's say you start doing some ads, then those people that are watching your videos for the last year will start getting served your ads, you know? And like I don't know, I'm sure you can speak to this as well. Like I just think a lot of people don't see value in posting organic content because it feels silly and stupid and you can't track, you know, you can't post a TikTok and then see how many sales that you got from it. But it all just kind of feeds into

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itself because like let's say I'm posting some fun videos. People are coming back every week to watch my videos. They'll then see a fake ad that I've got running on meta and they'll go, "Oh yeah, I know her." They'll click on the website, they'll have a look, "Nah, nothing's really interesting to me. Okay, click off the website." They'll keep watching my videos though and then they'll see another ad and then they'll go, "I'll go look again." And

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like on that second or third look, they might finally convert. And it just keeps going in a circle like that. Like that's how organic and ads really compliment each other. I love how I'm getting on and talking about ads now. Yeah, I love [laughter] it. I love it. I don't want to stop you. Um okay, a couple nuances here. Um when you think about organic content >> Yes. can we really paint that picture because we talk to people all the time >> Yeah. who they use the buzzword organic

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content as though it's a marketing thing that they must tick to get the clients that they want. >> Yes. Missing the art form in and of itself. The The nuances of what it really requires to build a fan base. When you think of organic content, what do you think of? How do you picture it? And how do you describe it to people who might not fully understand it? >> Yeah, so there are so many buzzwords um when it comes to marketing. Strategy, funnel, top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of funnel. Like um ROI, ROAS.

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Yeah, like there's all these buzzwords and organic content is one of those like buzz terms or words. Um but at the end of the day, what organic content is is you just showing up on social media and showing yourself or whatever for is that you're doing or who you are or what your personality is. And people always say to me as well, like how do I build a community? Cuz again, I even feel like community building is another buzzword. When really, if you're asking how do I build a community, what

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you're asking is how do I get people to like me? That's all it is. >> That's a different way of framing it. How do I get people to like me? >> It's different. >> That's how you're going to build a community is by getting people to like you. Like that's what it is to me anyway. >> I would agree. It's not about getting them or converting them. It's about having them sit there and think, this is great. I'm I'm enjoying this. There's

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something of value here. >> how can someone relate to you? Or how can you make someone laugh? Or, you know, how can you tell a story and have someone go, "Oh, yes." Or like how can you inspire someone? Like that's what organic content is. It's just creating videos and posting them out and finding people that are going to relate to what you're saying or like what you're doing or think you're funny or feel inspired by you and ultimately like you. That's what I organic content is to me.

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I I said to a client recently who was struggling with the concept of organic content and what it really means. And I said to them, "It's not about going and converting and selling. It's about going and serving." Yes. And they're like, "What do you mean?" I'm like, "Stop looking at an audience on social media as someone to sell to and start looking at them as people to serve." And serve them with what? Entertainment and value >> Exactly. And I think like again, because

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we're so in this like digital e-com viral TikTok brain rot, you know, world, that people can go into making content and view it as like something where they need to like be robotic and hit all the markers. And like they can have like the wrong intention from the get-go of making a video. Like I'm going to make this video, it's going to be so good. It's going to get lots of views and it's going to go viral. Whereas, like again, like going back to passion, like you need to find something that you can

00:30:47

organically post about, talk about, make a video about because then your intentions are not I'm going to convert from this video. It just needs to feel organic to you as well. And because there's so many businesses out there, so many founders, so many creators, it can be hard cuz people, you know, might start and it just feels like they're copying everyone else or talking the same way, um, you know, everyone else does. Um, but I think at the end of the day, like what I'm all about is just like

00:31:16

it's so cliché, but like staying true to who you are and showing up as yourself on social media. Being your authentic self. And being down to earth. Like we live in such a wild world that I think social media lacks a lot of like down-to-earth vibes. And I think that's where a lot of my success has come from is just being down-to-earth. Just being myself. People just go, "Oh, Britt, you're so like, you know, just down-to-earth and relatable. That's what I love about you." And like

00:31:44

that's what I've always done on social media. Just shown up as myself and not try to go viral or try to, you know, really sell something. Like you just got to be yourself and I know that's so cliché and people who are just starting out with content are probably sick of hearing that. Like be yourself. Can you unpack that? For for some people, that's a difficult question to answer or a difficult concept to hold is just be yourself. >> Meaning when we hear perhaps another buzzword, be authentic. It can be tricky

00:32:15

for people to then go actually do that. What are some things people can do to start actually showing up as their authentic self on on camera or with content? >> Yeah, I think it begins with like finding confidence within yourself, which is a hard thing to do for a lot of people because, like let's be honest, you know, we live in a world where everyone has so many insecurities, you know, like that are individual to each person and even doing something like talking to the camera might be so hard for someone to do. Like

00:32:47

and then you know, they've got coaches and whatever saying to them, "Be authentic. Be yourself. Show up and be who you are." And they're like, "Well, I don't even feel confident in myself, you know, on a normal day. So, how on earth am I meant to set up a camera and talk to it and post that on the internet when I don't even feel confident, you know, within myself, which is sad. But, I think you know, I think it all begins with like building your self-confidence in your day-to-day life before then like

00:33:14

throwing yourself out there on the internet. Because it's easy for you and I to say, "Just be yourself. Just start talking to the camera." But, like some people have a long way to go before they can get to that point. And they need to like almost do, you know, inner work on their self-confidence so they can get themselves to that point of being comfortable talking to a camera. Cuz like you can talk to a camera easily. So can I, but we've been doing it for a long time. Whereas if it's completely

00:33:40

new to someone who maybe doesn't have the most amount of self-confidence, like that's going to be a hurdle that they need to get over. So, I don't I'm not like a confidence guru. >> [laughter] >> I I think you you've definitely found a great way to be naturally yourself though. And I think when we've hung out in the past, you are exactly the same as what I see in your stories. [laughter] Yeah. Uh and on your social page. I understand the difference between like

00:34:06

being your company and like being a boss and your employees and all the rest of it. When you think about managing your energy around this, do you do anything consciously to manage your energy so you can show up in a good mood and you can show up as your best self? Are there things that you try to do? Um not really. >> [laughter] >> You're just like, "I am like this." I think um I think I one of my good qualities is being consistent. I think that's like a powerful thing to

00:34:33

have as a skill. I think it's gotten me to where I am by being consistent. Um like I'm not really much of like a woo-woo sort of person. Um but I do believe a lot in like um your mindset and like the way that you think is the way that you are and the way that your life will be. Um so I just try to like be, you know, positive every day. I try not to stress over things. And I just guess I try to remain neutral. And I think you've done a phenomenal job and you're managing a lot of different

00:35:07

things. So, let's unpack how many channels you're across. So, at any given [laughter] moment, could you just highlight what might be involved in your day? Cuz you have been extremely consistent with social media, extremely consistent around like marketing and advertising. >> that you say that because I feel like I'm never doing enough. >> Oh, yeah. >> [laughter] >> Well, let's get into that next cuz I I think there's a whole other rabbit hole we can go down around that. But I I

00:35:30

guess being across all these channels, Yeah. when you wake up in the morning, can you just paint a picture of what you're looking at? Like how many moving pieces are in front of you? Again, that's something that like we're working on at the moment is bringing more structure into my week because usually my day starts with me just waking up and going into the office and sitting at my desk and then everyone just starts coming to me. >> [laughter] >> And that's my whole day.

00:35:54

Um you know, >> Just throw it at me. Let's go. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And that's worked, you know, up until this point. But again, like we're working on at the moment, like making my weeks more structured. On Tuesdays, I'm working on product sampling and working with my team where we're working on what we're coming out with next at FATE. And then on Wednesdays, we're going to be doing like a marketing whip where I chat with the marketing team and we really get on the

00:36:23

same page for the week. And then on Thursdays, I might be working with operations. And so, we're building that kind of structure into my week so that it feels more intentional because yeah, for the most part, you know, all I do is just bing bong bing bong but like I'm just working on whatever I have, you know, every day. And I actually work really well in that way where there isn't as much structure. Of course, like if I have meetings, like that will be in my calendar. And some days like my calendar is just full and I

00:36:54

might just have a whole day of meetings. Um and I try to be intentional with that. Like if I'm going to if I need to have like three or four calls in a week with like, I don't know, external companies, I'll try and line them up all on like a Thursday so that it's just like back-to-back meetings. But yeah, generally my days are all over the shop. Um but we're working at the moment to really refine my days and just make every day feel a bit more structured and intentional. But because I'm just so

00:37:20

like Like I just [laughter] thrive off just going into the office and be like, "All right, who needs me?" But I can't do that forever. No, I think there's magic to this though and and obviously, you know, people have different perspectives as to what stages a company might be at. If you look back and you think to yourself what got you to this point before you're going to this next season of your life, what is it about the embracing of chaos and mayhem at the starting phase of a

00:37:45

business is potentially a positive thing. At a certain point, it starts to get in the way, but there's certainly an energy to that that can get something moving. Yeah, I think it's just the art of being willing to give every anything a go. >> Mhm. And I think this comes back to the confidence thing that we were talking about before. Like no one is born with confidence. Well, actually, I think we are kind of like born with confidence and then, you know, little kids like they run around,

00:38:09

they wear whatever they want and they don't care. And then you get to a certain age and then you start learning about all your insecurities cuz society tells you like you should be worried about this, you should be worried about what you look like. Like, you know, we learn to be insecure about things. And I think because I have been like I want to say that putting myself out there on social media has played a huge part in building my confidence. You know, I started making YouTube videos when I was 15. And like not that

00:38:38

you can see those videos anymore cuz they're like old and like private. But like in my old videos I wasn't like "Hey everyone." I was like "Hi, I'm Britney. I'm going to do a makeup tutorial." Like you know, I think putting myself out there online from such a young age has you know led me to have all of this confidence that's just been like a long it's been a long journey and a long process. And I've learned that you know, every little risk that I have taken throughout

00:39:07

my teens and you know, when I was 21 I quit my full-time job cuz I I said I want to be a YouTuber. Like you know, like and I did that back then and everyone that I knew was like "You're crazy. Like you're going to throw throw in your full-time job earning 550 bucks a week back then. Like you're crazy." But like you know, I took a risk then and then it paid off. I was like "Wait, I can do this YouTube thing. Okay, I'm going to try this business and that little business." And

00:39:31

like every time you try something that scares the out of you or makes you doubt yourself when you go "I don't know if I can do this." Like when you try it and then you do it and it works, it it then gives you that little bit more confidence to do the next thing. And I think that's literally what my career has been is just a snowball effect of me realizing that I can do things if I believe that I can. So cliche, isn't it? >> I I think I think [laughter] there's beauty to what you're saying because it

00:40:02

it might be cliche but like it it's cliche cuz a lot of people have experienced this. I think a lot of founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, startups have realized that there's common laws or common mentalities or common practice to to succeeding in business. I think I can relate to you in a sense where I never really had the full picture, but I would just start running in a direction. Yes. And then you start to pick things up. >> Just start. >> start to get momentum. Yep. That gives

00:40:26

you a bit of confidence. The next door opens. Something surprising comes along you didn't plan for. >> Like it just it keeps going. And like that's not to say that, you know, there might be, you know, things that go wrong or like setbacks or you go down one path and you're like, why did I do that? And then you just backtrack a bit and then go on the new path. But I think once like those wheels start turning, like it it just keeps going. But it starts so small. Like and you don't have to start with something

00:40:56

huge. It can be something so small like making your first Tik Tok. Or even making the Tik Tok account, you know? And then making your first Tik Tok eventually. And then doing another one. And like it's just tiniest little steps. And also people have to like give themselves grace because we live in this very, you know, immediate instant world. We can order something on Amazon tonight and it could be here tomorrow morning, you know? It's like instant gratification. We all want stuff now. Yeah. But when it comes to building a

00:41:25

career or building a business, you've got to give yourself grace. It's going to take you a really long time. And I think the like the day and age that we live in now, a lot of people would struggle with that because we all have like no attention span. We want things overnight, you know? So then if you want to do a business, like it's going to take you a really long time. And I think people would get frustrated with that cuz I would too. Cuz like I'm really impatient now, too. Cuz like, you know,

00:41:52

we're scrolling on our phones like this at night and like I always order things on Amazon. It comes the next day. But then you're faced with doing something that's going to take a really long time. You're like, ah, seriously? I just want to be successful overnight. You can't rush through a business. When you think about your journey, Mhm. was there a moment where you went from what I call a wantrepreneur where you're trying to play the entrepreneurial game, and then you realize oh, I'm doing it. Like the

00:42:19

wheels come like the training wheels come off the bike, and then you're like, "Oh my god, it's actually happening." What was that moment for you? Mhm, I want to say there's probably been a few of those moments. Um before I owned FATE, I tried a lot of other businesses. >> Okay. Um and I think a lot of business owners or entrepreneurs will have always tried lots of other things before. And all the other things that I tried before FATE, it would have been like when I was

00:42:42

17, 18, 19. Those felt like I was just doing hobbies. You know, like I I don't know if we spoke about this last time, but like I was doing freelance makeup at one point, and then I started a spray tanning business. I started doing like social media management for local businesses in Newcastle when Instagram was like a photo sharing app. Like Um at one point, I thought that I could like before iPhone case companies were a thing. I actually feel like I was ahead of my time, but this was back when like

00:43:13

the only place that you shopped online was eBay. Yeah. >> Like you remember when it was just eBay? Like if you wanted to buy something, like there was no I don't know. >> And you weren't you weren't sure if it would show up. >> Yeah. You're like, [laughter] "I hope this actually shows up, or I might have got scammed. We'll see." >> I remember like I thought, "I'm going to start a iPhone case company." And I think it was when we either had iPhone 4

00:43:31

or iPhone 5. And so I went on eBay and bought like all these clear iPhone cases. And then I went to um Spotlight and I bought like beads and pearls and ribbons and bows and hot glue gun, and then like I sat at my dining room table, and I was like gluing all these like making decorated phone cases, and I like was like, "Yeah, like this is going to be a good business." Like you know, but it felt like a little fun hobby as well, and so I just like took photos of them and put them on like my Facebook. I

00:44:03

tried so many little things before landing on FATE. And you know, I think all of those for me were like me trying to be an entrepreneur, but it was so long ago that I didn't even know what that word meant. And like I never learned about business ownership in school. Would be like obviously when I started fate, but then again it still didn't feel um real because I was just at home in the shed and I hired one girl to come and help me sometimes. Maybe when I open my first store. Okay. >> That's when felt real because it

00:44:36

wasn't online anymore. So it was 2019. Why did opening a store feel different to selling online? So we'd been selling online for like 2 years by the time I had um opened the store and during that 2 years I went from one employee to maybe like three. Yeah. Um and that still felt like practice. Like it didn't feel real. And you're making money, you're making sales. >> Yes. Yes. Like we had orders every day, but it was back when like everyone that worked there, we all just shared all the

00:45:07

jobs. Like no one had defined job titles. Like you know, it was yeah, just the training wheels were still on. And I think when we opened that first store in 2019, which was just like downstairs from our office. Like our office was upstairs and the shop was downstairs. I remember that feeling pretty real because like I was going to be inviting customers into my business. I remember like all of us like standing in a circle like the day that we were opening and I was like, what is going to happen? Like

00:45:32

is anyone [laughter] going to come? And I think that's when it started to feel a bit real for me. But even then thinking back like when I first opened my store, I was working in there most days or like 7 days a week. And even then it didn't feel real. It just felt like I was pretending. Mhm. So I don't know if there was ever like a definitive moment for me, but I think again it's just been like that. Natural progression. And obviously as the team got bigger and everyone's role

00:45:59

started to become more structured and then we introduced, you know, mid-year reviews and like all that kind of stuff, that's when it kind of feels real. Like, oh Yeah. Oh, it's like it's a big responsibility now. >> Yes. Yeah. Do you feel that over time as the team started to scale, as you started to open more stores, that things became uh more fun or more painful and difficult? More painful and difficult. [laughter] What were some of those moments as you were growing that that um

00:46:27

were difficult to get through? You just like the more any business grows, like the more difficulty is added. Like I think a lot of people can become obsessed with the idea of scaling and growing and making more money, but like that's great, but then like there comes more stress with that because you're dealing with more people. Um and I guess like things that felt more difficult, just managing more people like as a whole is obviously difficult. You know, if you're managing a team of three and then you have a team

00:46:55

of 10, it's going to be harder cuz you're dealing with so many different personalities and people have different wants and needs and they want to be communicated to in different ways. So, just managing that alone, you know, the demand of your customers and what they're wanting becomes more and more the bigger that you get. Um keeping up with product, stock, inventory, then went into like opening stores in different cities. And again, like I remember before doing that going, "How

00:47:18

on earth are we going to, you know, open a store in Sydney when we're in Newcastle?" And there were a few times there where, you know, no one was available to work. But just things like that, you know, like the bigger any business gets, yeah, the 100% the more stressful it becomes. The bigger it gets, the weirder it gets. Let's think about the different channels you have to manage. So, you've got the retail environment, you've got the online store, you're super involved in the

00:47:40

product creation and everything that you're touching. How do you find the best way to manage so much noise together when you're at the face of the brand as well? It's a lot. Like sometimes I lay in bed at night and like I think of like the day that I just had and all the little things that I do like I might be in a HR meeting and then you know we might be dealing with something that's a bit more serious and then after that HR meeting I walk out into our studio cuz we have like a studio at our

00:48:08

office and then I'm like doing a Tik Tok like you know you're just getting like flung around like it's from one extreme to the other and then I might be you know talking about a strategy for an upcoming sale that we've got and then in the afternoon I might have a couple of meetings and then I might like it's just like I said before it feels like just pinging and ponging like back and forward. You're looking at a lot of different channels. You're managing a lot of different things. You're in a lot

00:48:30

of different places. You're getting flung around left and right. When it comes to making social media and managing a company at the same time do you see them as one responsibility or do you operate completely differently on how you manage each of them? I see it as one. It just all mesh together. And I wouldn't say that I do it perfectly. I would say I do it in a way that works for me but I think I'm just a freak. >> [laughter] >> Like I just people like every person that I talk to like even when I came

00:49:00

here today your team is like how do you do everything that you're doing and I'm like I don't know. Like I don't [laughter] have an answer. Um I definitely see it like all as one and it can be a lot and again I think that's why I like we're working on my role at the moment and me structuring my week so they don't feel so meshed together. But it's definitely a lot. I feel you know lucky that I thrive in like a chaos kind of environment got a hundred million tabs open in my brain at all times

00:49:32

and I find that I work really well that way whereas I understand like not everyone can work that way where they're working on a hundred things at once like people are can be very task focused and whereas I feel like I operate really well when we're working on so much at once but also like I have the best team like you know it it can on social media it can look like it's all me, but like there's a whole team of people there, you know, Mhm. keeping the wheel turning every single day. Like, if I didn't have the

00:50:03

team, I'd be You've got a fantastic team. And whenever I've met anyone from your team, they've been phenomenal to work with and but at the same time, it always comes back to the CEO and who they choose to be on their team and how they how they tend to build their culture. >> Yeah. Um when you're producing content, let's say, how do you tend to operate because it seems like so much of your content is spontaneous and random? >> Yeah. And it is. And it is. But sometimes it still feels like it's

00:50:30

pointing in a direction and there's some strategic direction behind it. So So how do you break that apart? Is it all random or is it all slightly intentional and pointed at something? Um I would say, like for my personal content that I post on my Instagram and my TikTok, it's random. I might like have a series that I'm going to do. Like, right now we're renovating a granny flat at home. It's been fun to watch. >> I just said I'm going to do a little series called the granny flat glow up.

00:51:02

And so, like, I'm intentional with knowing that I'm going to be making that style of content over the next couple of months while we're doing that, but the videos themselves are just off the cuff. I get in the granny flat. I think I've done like four parts so far and I just do an update. But it's intentional that that's the style of content that I'm making for that series. Um everything else that I post is off the cuff, random, just film it on the spot or I might have an idea. I always write notes

00:51:29

in my phone. Um I have just one big note in my phone. Whenever I have, like, if I'm driving and I like have a thought about something and I'm like, "Ooh, I want to talk about that in a video." I'll just go into my note and write it down. Um and then, you know, if I'm wanting to make a video, I'll just go to my notes and go, "What do I want to talk about today?" But there's no, for me personally there's no structure in on Monday I'm posting a video about this and on

00:51:54

Tuesday I'm posting a video about that and Wednesday it's this like it's all just a mixed bag of lollies. That's how I would describe it for my personal content. Um and you know, I have my two podcasts as well. So they'll be like naturally, you know, on Tuesdays one of our high rollers episodes will drop. So I'll have a video to post on that day, which is like a clip from the podcast. So there's like a bit of structure in there, but it's also very random. And then in terms of FATE content, there's

00:52:21

two parts of FATE content. There's you know, our more branded content, which is on Instagram, which is like our models in the clothes and fun little graphics and everything. That's obviously more planned and structured because we have like a social media and marketing team that work together to plan out our feed every day and every week and what we're going to be posting, which aligns with you know, if we've got some new arrivals or some high stock products that we're wanting

00:52:45

to push and then my content also then intertwines into the FATE content. There'll be a lot of content that I make that I collab with the FATE account. And that I would say is pretty random as well, but a lot of the time I find we're always doing something that I can make content out of. Whether it's like we're doing a big sale at Black Friday, then you know, we will have a bit of a strategy as to the type of content that we're going to make around Black Friday and we'll have a theme and like

00:53:17

deliverables that we want to make, but also I think I'm really good at just being off the cuff and thinking of an idea quick, let's film this. And like same like tomorrow for example, while we're down in Sydney I came down here to do the podcast, but then we're just making a trip of it and we've got four of us down here and two are going to one store and two are going to the other cuz we've got two stores in Sydney. And so we've got like a plan of all the type of content that we're

00:53:43

wanting to get. Just, you know, like reels. Um we've got some content creators coming in. I'm going to do videos. So, like we are planned in that way of like we're going to go to Parramatta and Miranda. And like let's drive some store awareness like through our content. And so, we'll go down and we have a plan of the types of content that we're going to make while we're in both the stores. But also, if I'm like standing in the store and I think of something that I want to

00:54:06

say, then I'll just make another extra little video. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, two parts of this. So, so let's talk about your spontaneity and your creative prowess to kind of create stuff that's fun to interact with. You're saying you're not thinking about hooks and the payoffs and all of the science behind it. You're just completely going for it. What what's going through your mind? Like how do you curate what is and isn't interesting? Do you not care what the

00:54:30

audience think? >> [laughter] >> What What What exactly is happening in your mind as you're morphing an idea into reality? >> I think because I've been doing this for so long and stemming from YouTube days, I naturally have the hooks. I naturally know what to say that's going to get people's attention. I know how to be funny. I know how to be quick with it. And again, that comes with a long period of time. Like I've been making content for 18 years. Wow. Yeah.

00:54:57

>> I didn't know you'd been making content that long. >> Yeah. So, I started when I was 15 and I'm now 33. >> Wow. So, it's been 18 years of me talking to a camera. So, I'm at that point now where, you know, it's just comes naturally. Like the April will start filming me and I'll just know what I'm going to say for the hook. You know, I don't have to sit down and go, "Okay, for that video where I'm talking about that, I'm going to start with this

00:55:21

hook." Which is absolutely a good practice for people to have. Like to, you know, know what you're going to say at the very beginning that's going to get people to keep watching. But because again, I've been doing this for so long and I know my audience and I know what people like or respond to. It just It does come naturally to me, and I'm very grateful for that. Cuz then I don't have to spend as much time planning, and also because, you know, you said that my videos feel off the

00:55:51

cuff and spontaneous. I think people like that because it feels more organic. It feels natural. It doesn't feel like I've sat down and written a script, and then I'm trying to make it the script sound natural. >> Yeah. Because it is just random. I don't know if you've noticed this, but I've noticed a few YouTube channels I follow. You can tell that their entire script was written with AI. >> Yeah. >> reading it from a teleprompter, cuz there's a cadence to how AI describes

00:56:16

things. >> Yes. And it has put me off a few channels, unfortunately. I'm like, I can't listen to this anymore. Yeah. So, you're you're raising a good point, whereas what people want to experience is something organic, something real. >> Yes. What are some of those things in your mind that you're like, okay, across the broad spectrum of maybe 30 pieces of content, there needs to be humor, there needs to be a bit of a bit of that. >> Yeah. What are some of the the tricks,

00:56:37

the tools, the the the moments you try to create to make watching it feel a bit more fun and entertaining? I think again, it just comes back to being yourself. Like, [laughter] you know, I keep going there to the cliché. But is there any things where you're thinking like, I got to crack a joke, I got to have a situation where I'm making fun of something? Is there Is there any of that? >> I don't think there's a strategy behind like, oh, it's been a while since I've

00:57:00

done a funny video, we better do one. I think again, like, I'm just naturally always making all different types of content. Um, that I've never really felt like I'm leaning like one way too much or the other. Although, in my mind, I often feel like I have so much to offer, you know, audiences. And not so much now, but like especially when FATE was new, like, it was 8 and 1/2 years ago that it started, and it was before like business content was a thing. But no one There's no such

00:57:34

thing. Like there was no Aussie business Tik Tok or anything like that. And I remember like when I started Faded, I didn't post anything about it. And this was mainly like Instagram what didn't have videos yet. So it was just YouTube for videos. And I remember like not wanting to do vlogs about it cuz I didn't know if like people would find that interesting. Whereas now like people love like learning about businesses through content. And I think one thing that I've really loved is like

00:58:00

becoming more comfortable with making business kind of content. But I still do it in a way that feels natural and fun and easy to understand. And then like a common comment that I'll get on my business videos, like let's say I'm doing a video where like I've got this little series which I haven't done in a while, but I want to bring it back. And I called it the business burn book, like the burn book from the Mean Girls. Like where they write all the burn things. And so like they people would comment

00:58:31

like, "Yeah, burn my business." And then I do like a bit of an analysis on the business and the website and like kind of roast it. And like that's business content. But like a comment that I see again and again and again is, "I don't even have a business, but I just listened to the whole thing." Because you know, I think it's just adding in that like humor and relatability and keeping things simplified with the way that I'm, you know, talking about business. Cuz people hear business and

00:58:59

think, "Ugh." Boring. You know, they think it's going to be like a bunch of guys talking numbers and like you know, all that kind of stuff. But I think what I've really loved doing through my Tik Tok and Instagram and even my podcast is like making business seem fun and interesting. Because even if someone isn't in business, like you're surrounded by businesses every day. Like you're consuming business content all the time on Tik Tok and Instagram. You're seeing ads on Meta. Like,

00:59:27

business is everywhere and everything. And I've really loved being able to yeah, make content about business, but making it fun and still me. You've definitely made it fun. It's It's a ton of fun to watch, especially when you're doing breakdowns of different ads you're running and why they're not working and what things going great about it. It's fun to watch and even when you're making fun of your partner AJ. Yes. You're creating to me this universe and the way you see the world, your point of

00:59:53

view on things, things that annoy you, things that excite you. And I think that it's understated how effective that is as a strategy. So, when you think about sharing just yourself, your point of view, the world you're in and making it palatable for people to understand business and think business is fun and I agree that it is. When you think about this, why does that then downstream monetize a business? Cuz people will find it difficult to connect the dots between I'm having fun watching

01:00:18

Brit's content and now I want to buy something because I like her. >> Yeah, the way that it works is like they'll just watch your videos again and again and again. And then, you know, I often like start a lot of my videos with like, I own a fashion brand. We do sizes 6 to 26. Like, I say that again and again. Like, you know, every so often in my videos I make it known that like I'm the owner of Fate. We do women's fashion. And then I'm sharing videos about my life or whatever I'm doing, like being

01:00:42

stupid with AJ, um renovating the granny flat, like whatever it may be. And the way that it works is like someone will, let's say for example, they're tuning in to and watching what I'm doing every week and every day on my stories. And then they'll go, I need a pair of jeans. Who are they going to think of when they need a new pair of jeans? They'll go, Britney. Cuz they're watching me all the time. And even though I'm not selling them a pair of jeans, they'll go, she's got jeans at

01:01:11

Fate. So, what do they do? They go to the website and they buy a pair of jeans. Can I track that through my content? No. But that's just the way that it works. And then I might do a a where I'm trying on some of our um new fate arrivals and they'll go it she's got me. You know, I'm going to buy them. You know, because they're like oh she's got me hook line and sinker. I'm going to go buy that thing that she's promoting. And again, it's not because you know, they just see the product once

01:01:39

and think I need that. It's like everything else that I've done in the months prior to that and them tuning into my content that then makes them go it she got me good. I'm going to order. Like just recently we launched some sparkly jeans. Like jeans like this but then with like sparkles all over them. And people like I need those jeans just because like I put them on was being silly and like dancing in them and you know, it's just and it's not because I made one video dancing in our sparkly jeans. It's like

01:02:07

the community that you build through your content just by showing up every day and then you finally sell something and they go yeah, I need that. I want to get her sparkly jeans. I think that's what's so magical about your content though. You you're loving the process of doing this. Like and you love your team. You love creating stuff. And I think there's something to be said about the founder who's making a business just to make money versus someone who does it cuz it's in their soul to share. They're

01:02:31

creative and and to do something that is of service to people and make them feel like we're there to entertain them and make their world a little brighter, a little more fun or what have you. How do you think about content for your team now at Fate? Now you're in this transitional phase of delegating out to leadership team and having them produce content and drive content. What are some of the things that you're looking at when you're making content for Fate? Naturally, with me like stepping away from like the

01:02:56

day-to-day nitty-gritties of Fate, I'm always going to be involved with the marketing team because ultimately at the end of the day, I'm the face of the brand. And we could remove me from that, but then I just know for a fact that we would not do the sales that we do. So I think, you know, our marketing team fully across, you know, what kind of content that we make for FATE. I trust them fully. Like we probably do a photo shoot, you know, once every 2 weeks at FATE. We've always got like a new model

01:03:24

or a new creator coming in to make like that more fashion sort of content. >> Why is it important to have that much consistency with the photography? Cuz I know a lot of fashion brands they don't do enough of that activity. Yeah. Um it's everything. Like your content is your driver of your sales. Um and like from a content day, not only do you get things to post on your TikTok and your Instagram, but then you get content to run in all your ads. So like the more that you've got the

01:03:52

better and you know, you've got to just be constantly like refreshing your ads and you can't just like have one shoot day a year and use that content all year round, you know, especially like we're a business that has like a big catalog of products as well and so much variety. So we can't just like focus on one dress for the whole year. Um so yeah, we're always like shooting content. Um I think as well like we have sizes 6 to 26. So we need to always be working with like models that are all different sizes to

01:04:21

like showcase that we have clothes that are for all different shapes and sizes. Um content is just absolutely everything. Like if we stopped posting content, we'd stop making sales and I think that is the proof. And people go, "Well, that's a bad thing if you're just relying on content to make your sales." [laughter] But I'm like, "If I stopped posting on our Instagram and our TikTok, we would literally stop making sales." But if you invert it, it's hey, if we

01:04:45

post more content, we make more sales. >> Exactly right. >> And it's organic. You don't have to necessarily always pay for it. But then if you boost it and it's simultaneously advertising at the same time, you win. >> Exactly. Yes. And so it's an investment. When you think about the different formats, one of them is photography with models. >> Yep. Mixing up the models, mixing up the the combinations of the clothes. What are some other things that you try to

01:05:06

put into the FATE brand or you're intending to to really help drive the organic side of the content? Um like let's say for example, what's changed a lot is like modeling as a whole. Back in the day, you would book a model through a modeling agency, and she would come, and you would just do an e-comm shoot, like shooting your website images, and it would just be photos, photos, photos, and then they would go home. But because of, you know, how much social media has changed, and we have TikTok now, and

01:05:34

trends, and trending audios, and dances, and all that, what you'll find is a lot of the models now can do it all. So, like, sure, we'll book a model for a day, but the morning will just be the website photos, like against a backdrop, like getting all those product shots that then go onto our website, but then they'll have a content afternoon. So, or we call them like content days, or sometimes we'll just be booking models just for a content day. So, she's not like getting any professional flash

01:06:01

photography done. She might be, you know, doing um, reels, and TikTok trends, and like styling videos, and like that more UGC sort of vibe, like user-generated content. And what UGC is is like it's exactly that. It's content that looks like the person in the video made it themselves. Like it's very down-to-earth and UGC vibes. Um, models, you know, these days will talk in content, and maybe we'll do, I don't know, like a Q&A with a model, and make a video out of that. And it could be nothing to do with

01:06:34

modeling. It'd be like, "What's your favorite food? Like, what's your death row meal?" Or whatever it may be. [laughter] So, I think that's a way that like content and modeling has changed a lot. Cuz yeah, back in the day it was just like you'd book them for an e-comm day, and you'd shoot all your website photos, but now you're booking them for a day. In the morning they're doing the website photos, and then for the rest of the day, they're doing Instagram reels

01:06:54

and TikToks. And are you narrating what they should be doing with that time, or are you giving them complete creative control? My team. Yeah. They plan that all out. >> Okay, so your team are planning for the model who's coming in. >> Yes, they're picking out all the outfits, what we're going to be shooting, you know, what needs to be shot for the website, what needs to be shot for Instagram and socials. Um and they will plan it all out from start to finish and they'll have just a

01:07:18

whole run sheet of the day. And then they might just get my eyes over it to be like, does this look good to you? Is there anything else that you want to add? And I might be like, oh yeah, I want to quickly get a video of her in that dress. You know, but yeah, they're fully planning all of that. Okay, and then managing a label, it sounds like there's a lot of pressure to constantly show something that's new and to constantly drive new traffic to the website. What's your strategy on how to

01:07:40

constantly make the brand feel like it's new, there's something to look at, there's something refreshing to get your eyes across? How how do you tend to think about that and how do you tend to manage a label? I think again, it comes back to content and being creative and being able to make a series out of whatever it is that we're doing. And I feel like because we always have so many different activations happening at different points of the year, um we've always got an opportunity to

01:08:07

bring something new to the table in terms of content or if we're going through a period where we don't have any like big marketing activations happening or we don't have a sale period or we're not opening a new store, so we can't really make content about that. It's then about getting together as a team and going, all right, let's come up with a new mini series. Like what's something that we can make content out of? And then just getting creative and coming up with something entertaining, which is

01:08:29

what you have to do when you're a business. Again, like but someone might want to start a clothing brand cuz they love clothes, but like you've got to do so much more. It's like a circus. Yeah, it is a circus. Yeah, it's you're running a circus and you need to be on like 24/7 and giving something new to everyone. Um but yeah, I think I'm fortunate in a way where we've always got something new happening at FATE, whether it's you know, when we've opened new stores, I've

01:08:55

done whole series on that. If we moved office, I've done a series on we're moving office, come and take a look at what it looks like. Like just always trying to make content out of whatever it is that we're doing at that point in our business journey. Okay, so then if someone were listening to this thinking to themselves like you were saying earlier, if you're at the very infancy of a business, start documenting and sharing what you're doing as you're doing it. >> Yeah. Why is the journey, the story, the

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challenges, all the things that can get in the way of the success happening and all the nuances, why is that better for content than sitting there and planning the perfect script? Um because at the end of the day, people don't buy products, they buy a feeling that they get from when they buy the product, when it shows up at their door, or when they put it on. Like, you know, there's so much out there for people to buy. Anyone can start a clothing brand, anyone can start an activewear brand,

01:09:49

anyone can start a skincare brand. The only thing that's going to set you apart, sure, there's differences in quality and all the fit and all that kind of stuff, but if we're looking beyond the products, like, what is it that's going to make people want to buy your jeans versus another brand? It's what you do on social media that's going to be the differentiator. You know, like, there are a lot of brands out there that have sparkly denim jeans, but again, it's the way that I

01:10:14

would promote those jeans that's going to make people go, "I want to get the fake ones." You know, and it just again, all ties back into that constantly showing up on social media, sharing the journey. It's going to give people that feeling when they put those sparkly jeans on. Like, they they will love the jeans and be like, "They're so nice." But then they'll have that little feeling of like being a part of something bigger than just a pair of jeans, you know what I mean? Yeah, like

01:10:40

say say someone sees them in the jeans, they say, "Oh, awesome jeans." Oh, yeah, I saw Britney on social media, that's why I bought them. >> And like, they've got that feeling, you know? And that's the power of making content on socials. And organic content is you're creating a feeling. Cuz no one buys a product just for a product. It's the feeling that they get from it. Yeah. Now, do people do struggle to grip this fully? I I've experienced around the feeling component because I'm a lot of

01:11:07

founders and entrepreneurs and e-commerce store owners I meet fixate on product. Yeah. Which is important. I get that. >> you need to have a good product. >> a good product. >> Yes. Can you split the difference between quality control on product and and how to engineer a feeling consistently that isn't just talking about the product, but actually gives people something else? That's the hard thing as well cuz I see, you know, a lot of people um who have like a product-based

01:11:32

business and then they will say like, you know, it's so hard when you're selling a product because you want to promote it, but you don't want to feel like you're selling a product. And again, I I know we keep like circling back, but I think then that's when it comes back to that authenticity um and being down-to-earth. [clears throat] When I am promoting our sparkly jeans, I'm not sitting there in our reel that we've made and I'm not going, "Hi everyone. These are our

01:12:00

sparkly jeans. They are really comfortable. They're really stretchy. They have sparkles on them. They're made X Y Z." Like I'm not sitting there being a sales person and just talking about the product. I try to promote our products in a way again that feels authentic. Can you teach someone how to make good content or do you have to just be born with some kind of good taste? I think there's a level of being born with good taste that is going to definitely give you a head start.

01:12:34

But I think someone can learn to become better at content over time, 100%. Like practice makes perfect. Comparing my videos to 5 years ago to now, like they'd be completely different. Um I don't think everyone is made to be in content and that might be a hot take. >> What do you mean? I don't think everyone like everyone can make content, but it doesn't mean that everyone that makes content is going to have a heap of success with it. I think there's a tiny bit of luck in there as well. Um there's

01:13:05

obviously like it's it's skill it's your brain, it's a bit of strategy, and then it's sprinkled with a tiny bit of luck. Do you disagree? [laughter] >> I agree with you. >> You agree? >> Yeah, I think it's like let's say let's say we take music. Yeah. >> Someone could be naturally inclined to be clever with a rhythm and singing. Someone else might suck at it entirely, but with perseverance be okay at it. >> Yep. >> But then there's a little bit of luck

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you get picked up by a label and Everyone can make content, and I think it's a skill that can definitely be built on because it again comes down to confidence. >> Mhm. The more your confidence builds builds, the better your content is going to be. But again, it's going to take a long time. And I think we could both agree that you have to love it. Yes. I think you have to love anything that you're doing to have success in it. At the time of the recording, there was this guy on Tik Tok and he has an

01:13:55

activewear brand with his wife, and they've been doing it for a couple of years or a few years, and he's just made a Tik Tok just this week saying, "My activewear business is failing." Like and I I've been scared to make this video and like I just want to put it out there. Like can anyone give me some feedback? And so like I went and checked out his page and like I did a 10-minute video. Like I stitched his video and like kind of gave him some tips and pointers. And I didn't go too deep into it. I mean

01:14:24

I spoke for 10 minutes, but it made me question like you know, why do people start businesses in the first place? Cuz he's like a content creator and goes viral all the time. Like he has like half a million followers on his personal account, and it just made me think did he start this activewear brand 3 years ago because he's genuinely passionate about tights and sports bras, or was it more like sure he might be passionate about starting something and starting a business, but now he's a few

01:14:53

years in he goes, this is actually really hard, you know? And so I think what I mean by like there's got to be passion behind anything that you do, it's because if there is no passion, it's going to get to that point where it feels like a chore. Because at the end of the day a business is a job. Like you're creating a job and I think it can be so easy to be in love with the idea of starting something, especially now. Like activewear brands are everywhere on TikTok. It can be easy to be like, oh my

01:15:24

god, I want to do that. I want to start that. And then you get a couple of years in or a year in and you go, holy this is really hard. And if there's no passion there, and I could be wrong like he might be very passionate about activewear. I have no idea. I haven't done that much of a deep dive, but I just think no matter what it is that you're doing, even if it's, you know, in your career or business or whatever, like there's got to be a passion for what you're doing because if not you're

01:15:48

going to end up loathing it. What's the risk of building a business that you don't truly love? The risk is that hopefully you will be able to scale it to a point where you can then completely take a step back and have a team that does everything. And that's not a bad thing. Like that could be actually really good. Like if you start a business, you're not really interested in it. Let's say again, you're doing activewear. You don't really care about activewear, but if you

01:16:11

can successfully scale a business to a point where it's profiting, it's making money, you've got a team, they're doing it. And then if you could just take a step back and, you know, reap the benefits and have your team run it, then I don't see that being a bad thing whatsoever. If someone wants to start a business for that reason, like I'm like go for it. That'll be kind of nice to just be like, you guys do it. I'm just going to be over [laughter] here and just get paid, you know, to do barely

01:16:35

anything. >> Yeah. But I think it's just a different type of business when there is passion behind it. >> I've seen all these businesses, but I tend to find that the people that are having the most fun are the ones that are truly living in their passion. Yeah, I completely agree. >> It's hard to get burnt out when you love it and you feel like you're winning. Yeah, and I've like even met some people before, like people that have businesses that are far bigger than mine. One

01:16:55

person in particular said to me like, "Get out now." Yeah. "Get out now before you start to hate it." And I'm like, I don't like I'm 8 and 1/2 years in and I don't have that feeling yet. Um and I don't know if I ever will. But again, like maybe it's because that person got into it and there was no real passion maybe from the beginning. And then as it got bigger and more difficult, they're like, "Fuck this. I hate this." You know, and you're too far

01:17:20

in where you can't go back. Um but yeah, I think being passionate about whatever it is that you're doing is so important because yeah, like you said, like you've got to be in it and you got to love it. And I think we're really lucky to be in positions where we are doing something that we're passionate about cuz not a lot of people can say that. There's a part of this where if you truly love it, you're truly passionate, you're all in, that when you're faced with an obstacle,

01:17:44

that if your mindset was in a place where you're like, "I hate this." then that obstacle would be a full stop. Yes. Whereas if you love it, you kind of want to ignore the full stop and go, "But what's beyond that?" Yeah, 100%. >> there's just those moments where call it perseverance, grit, determination, whatever cliché word we throw in there, but >> [laughter] >> what is that? What What is that additional push that you get when you're when you're truly

01:18:12

excited about something. I just think like you don't see anything as an obstacle. And like for example, let's say like I had no interest in fashion, I had no interest in content, and then I started Fayd and I was doing it anyway. Because I love everything that we do and everything that I do in my job, like every challenge that I'm faced with, even if we're in the thick of a challenge, like I will already be thinking of when we're out of that and on to the next, you know? And the more

01:18:39

challenges that you face in your business journey, in your career journey, I think it makes you become more resilient and more powerful, if I'm being honest. Because, sure, it's not fun when, you know, the roof is on fire and it feels like everything's going wrong, but I think having that positive mindset and just knowing that you are going to get to the other side of it. It might take a few weeks, you might have a few months of a rough patch, but just knowing that one day this is going to be

01:19:07

over with and I'm going to move on is motivating to me. And like getting through a challenge, dealing with a difficult situation, whatever it may be, like just, you know, and navigating how you're going to deal with that. Like you learn so much for next time, you know? Like I think business is nothing but just doing and learning and making mistakes and going, I handled that terribly. Next time I'm going to do it this way. Like it's a growth journey. And again, I keep circling back to confidence, but like

01:19:38

my business journey has just um made me more resilient and built more confidence. And you do a lot of self-reflection. And, you know, it makes you realize things about yourself, even things that you might not find to be that great about yourself. Like it will highlight your best traits and your worst. Um but I see it all as a positive thing. Mhm. Thinking back to your journey over the last 8 and 1/2 years, what have been those traits that you've highlighted that you've been impressed by about yourself? Mhm. And then perhaps

01:20:05

the ugly ones that have reared their head that you've had to deal with. Rushing things and trying to just do it quickly. Um getting in people's way um and being a control freak and just saying, I'll do it. And not thinking about how that might make someone else feel. Because I would typically be the kind of person, like let's say there's someone on my team and they're doing a task, but it's a task that I've done a hundred thousand times and I can do it in two seconds. And me going, it's all

01:20:30

right, I'll just do it. And like type up, whatever it is. And me just seeing that as me helping out and getting it done quicker, but not understanding that that might upset that person. That's like been one of my biggest things. And I think a lot of business owners will be that way, cuz we're just like, get it done quick, I'll do it. I've done it a million times before, but that can upset other people. And that's like been a big realization for me is like, yes, I could probably get it done 10

01:20:56

times faster, and then we can move on to the next thing, but I've got to let that person do it at their pace. Um, you know, because otherwise I'll just be like a bulldozer and upset people along the way. Being impatient, I would say, is another one. Again, just like always want to get done really fast. Um, and good traits, um, a good trait of mine, I would say, is being a team player and never being afraid to get my hands dirty, no matter what it is, and just help out. Um, I would never see myself being that owner

01:21:27

is like, I'm not doing that. Like, that's your job, you do it. Like, if someone said, "Can you help me move these boxes in the warehouse?" Or, "Can you help me with this staffing issue that I've got going on?" Or, "Can you help me with this email that I'm typing back to a customer cuz they've been a bit upset?" Like, there's no task that I will say no to, and I think that's probably one of my best traits is the willingness to do anything. And I think

01:21:50

to be a good founder, you've got to be that kind of person. >> I would agree. And it sounds like you're at a stage now where now the team's evolving, it's scaling, and you're bringing in other people to have that experience or opportunity to do some of that chaos management that you >> Exactly right, cuz you can only manage the chaos for so long. Like, you know, now I can let other people do [laughter] it. Okay, now, thinking about your, I guess your background and what led you to this

01:22:14

point, I always find it fascinating what I guess entrepreneurs experienced early on to to shape who they are, and how they tend to look at the world. If you're thinking about yourself and and how you show up, what do you think defined you or shaped you early in your life that that has allowed you to have so much optimism and so much joy for what you do? Yeah, I think a lot of entrepreneurs have um like a similar experience to me and it's always like really surprising but not surprising when you hear about like a

01:22:46

lot of um founders that always seem to be like chasing the next thing is like I think a lot of us come from like not having a lot of family support. So, when I was young, my dad and I went through a lot of periods of not talking and talking again like on and off from probably like 9 or 10 years old. And I think back then like dealing with something like that like a very hot and cold relationship with your parent, it's going to build some sort of resilience in you. And then when I was um 14, he stopped talking to me like once

01:23:18

and for all. Before that it was like we wouldn't talk for 6 months and then we'd talk again. It was like a toxic relationship. Like, "Hey, you want to come back over now?" You know? Um and so when I was 14, he stopped talking to me like full stop. Um like like just indefinitely. And I remember I struggled a lot um with that back then like through my teen years and like I was angry and I hated him and I hated the world and um like I went through a lot of milestones, you know, like getting my L's and

01:23:49

learning how to drive and going to my school formal and all that kind of stuff. And I remember being like devastated and angry that he wasn't there for any of those moments that he was supposed to be. And it like it it was a huge part of like those teenage developmental years. And then whilst I was dealing with that like with my dad kind of abandoning me, I had always like always such a hot and cold relationship with my mom as well. And like before my dad stopped talking to me like I like I found myself getting flung

01:24:21

between my parents. Like and if mom was pissed off with me, she'd drop me over to my dad's. And then when he had enough of me, I get dropped back to Mom's. I felt like just a pawn, like being flung back and forth across the chess table. I don't know. That's the weirdest analogy ever. I just felt like that. And so, um my mom and I had a really, um just rocky relationship as well. Like, you know, she'd kick me out of home and then I'd have to move schools and this, that, and

01:24:46

the other. And she never gave a you know, whether I went to school or I didn't. Like, I've I've not grown up in a household where it was like, "Do your homework and do well in school." I never had that. Never had anyone say, "Do well." at all. And I have like a really small family. Like, I have one sister. So, we're not from like a big family. Never been surrounded by family. Like, have cousins, but they're in like Tasmania and Sydney. So, like, we just didn't

01:25:09

grow up like with a big family. And so, I just moved out from a really young age and I learned that independence from a really young age. Like, paying rent, you know, I dropped out of school when I was 16 as well. Um so, yeah. Then moved out when I was 17, got my own car, started working, earning money. I was working from 14 anyway. And so, I think just the mix of like not having a solid relationship with either of my parents for my whole life, combined with then like moving out of home when I was 15

01:25:40

for a bit and then like moving out again when I was 17, leaving school when I was 16, I never had like any sort of passion to do anything great in life. I knew I wanted to work. I hated school. Like, that I was not interested in anything there. And like, I finished year 10. I was a year young for the year as well. I finished year 10 and my friends were like, "Stay till year 12." And I'm like, "Okay." Even though like I didn't want to be there. And so, I went into year 11, but I was like a year

01:26:06

young. I was 16. And I went into year 11 and I was like, "Fuck this. I just want to work." So, I dropped out of school to become a waitress. And so, I did that. And I remember that like I remember the day of like going and like signing out forever and I just remember feeling so liberated. I was like, yeah. Even though I was going to go be a waitress. >> [laughter] >> Like I just remember that day like it was yesterday and just walking out of there and just thinking, thank god, cuz

01:26:29

I just hated that place. Um and so like I just always wanted to work and earn money. From the ages of 14 to 21, I had over 20 jobs. Like I was just >> Wow. >> Yeah, I I was like a terrible job hopper. Like I would get a job and if I started hating that place within like 2 weeks, I'd be back on seek like looking at something else to do. I had so many jobs and every industry possible. Started in fast food at Maccas, then worked at Baskin-Robbins, Subway, then I went into like retail,

01:26:59

then I started waitressing when I was 18. I got my RSA so I could work in bars, cafes, restaurants. Did all the retail. I then did direct sales. Um I worked at a school camp one time, which was so random. Like I worked anywhere and everywhere because I was trying to find something that I was passionate about. And I didn't know at the time that I was looking for something that I was passionate about. I just was unhappy in all of those jobs. So I just job hopped and I was terrible employee. Like I would just quit by

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texting and being like, I'm not coming back. [laughter] Sorry, cuz I'm like 18 years old, you know? Yeah, we've all done that. Yeah, and like on reflection, it was not good, but you know, it led me to where I was. Um to where I am now because then yeah, the last full-time job that I had was um when I was 21. I was working a 9-5 in Newcastle in an office doing a bit of sales and recruitment and that's when I just um decided that I was going to quit my job to pursue the YouTube thing full-time. Had 80,000 subscribers

01:27:58

at the time and um just pulled the pin and went, it, I'm going to quit this job and try the YouTube thing and I haven't looked back since. And I think it was like the rockiness of my relationships with my parents and moving out of home so early and never having anyone to be like go to uni, do well. A lot of people in that situation would probably go down like a not so good path because they've had no guidance, they've had no one celebrating their wins or saying you're doing well at anything,

01:28:28

but I think luckily I somehow went the other way and thought, well, this I'm living life on free mode. Like I can do whatever I want. And that's when I like went into all those different jobs and realized like I can do things and try things and then came like all those little businesses that I was trying and I was doing all of that while like both my parents are not in the picture. And so my dad hasn't been in the picture my whole life. But he's trying to be in it now. >> [laughter]

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>> How has that made you feel? Um he rang me I always talk about this in my podcast cuz I'm like he doesn't um listen [clears throat] to podcasts. >> [laughter] >> Um but he watches all my stuff on social media. So I'm always careful with what I say on like Instagram and stuff. Um but he called me I want to say like maybe 3 years ago now. Um so we hadn't spoke for over 15 years. And so like he's missed my whole life. I was very angry for a lot of it, very upset, like traumatic,

01:29:32

like you know, having your dad just walk out and you never hear from him again. Um but then obviously like I grew up and I went into my 20s and I've built this amazing company and done social media and all this without my dad. So it it gets to a point and everyone's probably different, but like I let go of all that anger and resentment because I moved on and he just became like no one to me. And so I remember when he called me um to say like I'm sorry, which made me just go like I never thought that I

01:30:03

would get an apology. Like I never thought that cuz I'd accepted my fate. But you know, I'd accepted that that was my life. Like I'd done everything. I'd gone into my 30s. I got a long-term partner. And like my dad has never been in the picture. So, he called me um to say that he's sorry. And I could tell that it was genuine. Um I haven't ever said this before, but I feel like this is a safe place to say it cuz we're like at the end of a podcast. So, he's not going to hear it. But I went and saw him

01:30:29

um at his work. And um it was like the first time that we like had seen each other kind of thing. And I went to see him and he just like burst into tears. Like the first time that like I saw him. And I didn't know how to act in that situation cuz it was so awkward. Cuz I'm like What do I do? And so I like awkwardly like patted him on the back. I'm like, "It's okay." I should be the one balling my eyes out. Um And so that was about 3 years ago um that like he reached out and I have

01:31:04

felt really um neutral about the whole thing. I thought that maybe like I'd always think, you know, one day if my dad reaches out to me again, is it going to impact me? Is it going to send me on a spiral? Is it going to open a can of worms that I've like put in the past? But I've felt quite neutral about the whole thing. Um obviously I've kept him at an arm's length and I think he knows that as well. And he has said to me like, "I know that things are never going to be what they were like cuz the last time we

01:31:29

were in each other's lives I was 14 years old." Um so now, you know, we just kind of text every now and then. He might send me a photo of something random. Um and then we've gone out for a dinner a few times. Like he has a lovely partner who's like relatively newish. And so she's lovely and I've met her. Um and yeah, I would say like it hasn't healed me in any way, but it also hasn't affected me in a negative way. I feel really neutral about it. And I think if anything it's probably been

01:31:59

um healing for him. Mhm. Um and I've had some people say like, are you do you think he's just reached out to you cuz now you've had all this success? Like I've had people say that. And I'm like, honestly, I don't think so cuz what's he going to get out of me? Yeah. And my mom is not in my life right now again. It's just like been like this my whole life. But I think at the end of the day, um, you know, if I could have my life any other way, I would 100% have a mom and

01:32:28

dad that have been in my life for my whole life. Um, I feel like it's a huge wasted opportunity, um, because like I feel like I have a lot to offer, um, and like I look at people that do have great relationships with their parents and I just think, oh, like I would love to do that or I would love to spoil my mom, um, but I've never had that. But in saying that, you know, despite not having, you know, that relationship with either of my parents that I wish that I could have, I've had

01:32:57

so many other amazing people in my life that have kind of made up for that, um, from my partner to like family that's become my family even though they're not my family kind of thing. Like I've definitely learned that you can choose your family. And sure, I'm like bummed about it because I feel like I'm an awesome daughter and like I have a lot to offer, but you know, you can't have it all in life, right? Brandy, you have the right to feel bummed and I appreciate you being so honest and and sharing this and

01:33:28

I think that, you know, having grown up in that situation, I can only imagine the loneliness and and perhaps the the frustration. You know, I've grown and like I'm in my 30s now and I've figured out life totally on my own and I think that's why I have that resilience and that passion is because I've figured that out on my own. And maybe if I had had a mom and dad who were supportive and encouraged me to go to uni, maybe I wouldn't be so resilient and, um, have this much confidence in myself. But

01:33:57

maybe because I was, you know, kind of forced to grow up from a young age and figure life out on my own that I've had that opportunity to make something of myself, and I've realized that I don't need to have someone there telling me what to do and what what's good and what's bad. I've figured it out on my own. So, whilst, you know, I 110% wish that I could have a relationship with my parents where they're in my life. Cuz like I've never had a parent like come to anything that I've ever done.

01:34:28

Like any keynote, any store opening. Like bless him. It's like AJ there clapping me onto the stage, you know what I mean? But of course I would wish that I could, you know, have my mom and dad there going, "Yeah!" as I'm going off onto the stage. There's a quote that comes to mind for me, and it's that the greatest test in your life will become your greatest testimony. Yes. >> And I think that perhaps someone might hear this today and might inspire them to do something with with the energy

01:34:55

that they have. And I think there's another quote that comes to mind, and it's Jim Rohn. He says, "Never underestimate someone and how far they can go if they have a chip on their shoulder." True. I think there's energy when you think about rage, and you think about pain, it it is energy. Yes. >> And you have to channel it Yeah. >> somewhere. What do you think that that was for you? Cuz clearly there was energy. There was a point to prove. I think like there would be that deep underlying reason of

01:35:21

I'm going to prove to them that I can do it, you know what I mean? Not that that's ever been openly my motive. Um but I think that would be the the driving reason as to why I've done all that I have. It's probably because I felt like I needed to prove something to my mom and dad. Well. Yeah. How do you think that that has shaped how you look at business? I think it's it's shaped me into everything. Like it's Like I think that's the reason I am the way that I am is because I've grown up without that

01:35:55

like support and guidance. So, I think it's shaped everything about me, the way that I look at things, the way I try to have a positive outlook. You know, I think that would ultimately be my reason why I do what I do and the way that I approach everything in life, if I'm being completely honest. Well, if I'm being honest, you're absolutely killing it. Oh, thank you. >> Your your name comes up often in my friendship [laughter] circles and those I do business with, even when we're

01:36:19

working with a lot of female entrepreneurs and I ask them, "Who do you look up to? Who inspires you?" Your name comes up all the time. Yeah, that's so nice. And again, like I never set out to do that. You know, again, like I've been doing this for so long, I never went in with a motive of like, "One day I want to inspire people and get them to, you know, be confident." But I'm so glad that, you know, me starting my journey on YouTube when I was 15 has led me to where I am now, where I can, you know,

01:36:49

inspire others to like just get out there and give it a go. >> I think so. And I think the universe or whatever you believe in has a weird sense of humor. >> [laughter] >> Sometimes I think The universe has a weird sense of humor. I think so. Yeah, you know what? Life is pretty funny. [laughter] You can draw so much power from that. So much power from that pain. And I think that, um, whether it's conscious or unconscious, you're definitely inspiring people in a deep way. Yeah.

01:37:13

>> And I think that your passion for your business, your passion to help your team, your passion to show up for them and to not let them down. Mhm. Perhaps that stems together, I'm not sure, but I think >> You're you're clearly on a mission to help people and and do some good. Yeah, I definitely feel, um, drawn to helping people and especially now at this stage in my career, where I am leaning more into with my content, like helping others and giving advice and through my business podcast as well.

01:37:41

Like I really love kind of just you know, talking about everything that I've learned and if that inspires someone or teaches them something or gives them something to save on TikToks like oh yeah I love that then I'm like I I'm all for that. I love that and the last thing I want to unpack is around that and how much you love to give to people. And recently you had a event. Yes. And I think that what you were able to create with it the success that it had how it tied into zeitgeist and pop culture is very

01:38:13

clever. Yes. Um you called it FATE Estate. Yes. And if you could unpack what exactly it was, why you wanted to do it and what happened cuz I I think it's such a joyous story what you were able to create. Yeah absolutely. I um typically every year brands take influencers to Coachella. And you see that every year like brands doing pop-ups and stuff and we'd never done an influencer event before. We're 8 and 1/2 years in and we've been a community focused brand. Um and so I thought well maybe this year's

01:38:44

going to be this was last year but maybe 2026 to be the year that we um go to Coachella and take some influencers and you know launch a festival collection um and you know finally do that cuz it's like aspirational I guess for fashion brands and e-com brands. And then I kind of started looking into it and I thought nah like this is way too hard to like take people to another country. And so I thought well what if we just created that same sort of Coachella feeling but we just did it in Australia.

01:39:16

So that's how the idea was born. It was that we were going to go to Coachella and then I looked into it and went that. So we thought let's create that same sort of festival feeling let's do it on the same weekend as Coachella but do it at home. And so that's where the idea of FATE Estate was born. We designed a festival style collection. And um we then made it our first ever kind of influencer event but of course we included community as well. So, we did like a big giveaway, and people won

01:39:46

like we gave away four double passes, so eight of our community members came along as well. And the strategy of it was to I guess do something that people haven't really ever seen in the Australian landscape because we were hosting Fader State. And for anyone that hasn't seen it, like you can look up Fader State, you'll find it all over TikTok and Instagram. But, we got this like beautiful how like it was in the Byron Bay hinterland. It looked like you're in Turkey or something.

01:40:11

>> Yeah. Yeah, or Latin America somewhere. >> Yeah, it um and then we got lots of other Aussie brands on board. But, we kind of wanted to throw like what felt like a bit of a festival, but for brands and like almost like a PR festival. So, we had all these amazing brands come on board and like do activations on the day. So, each brand that was there, they had their own like little like a stand or a stall kind of at a market. Um but, they were all like interactive. Um and it just like it just went bloody

01:40:40

amazingly. And you can go like look it up. If you just look up Fader State on TikTok, like you'll just see like the amount of coverage and videos that came out of that one weekend was just like nothing I'd ever seen before. Like, it absolutely blew up and took over the for you page. Um and like it went exactly how I thought it would. Like, everyone was like, "I don't know whether I want to tune into Coachella or Fader State." Like, cuz we just did it at the exact same time.

01:41:05

>> Yeah. And it stirred the pot a little bit, too, cuz you know, it was our first ever time time like doing an influencer style event, but you know, you got to shake it up every now and then and do something different. Um and it just went so bloody well. Like, I can't even explain it. Like, I feel like people almost have to just go and look it up to see what um what it was that we did, but I was doing hourly vlogs like updating vlogs on TikTok and Instagram every hour. Like, people were locked in to like seeing

01:41:33

this event unfold cuz not only did we do and host the event, but I documented the whole journey leading up to. Yeah, it was just absolutely epic and it was such a great opportunity to get so many brands together to host an event that like included all of them because when you're a brand like it can be quite isolating, you know, and you're doing your own thing back to the very beginning of this episode in my little Newcastle bubble. Um, you know, and we had like some like amazing brands there

01:42:03

like Funday Lo they're based in Melbourne they're like an Australian confectionery business. Havaianas like the thong brand, BangnBody. I mean these are probably not your kind of brands. >> Yeah, you know BangnBody. >> Yeah. There you go. Um, like we had Your Bliss which is like a um, independent like fragrance um, brand. Um, Mermaid Hair, uh, Lust Minerals Cosmetics. Like there was so many brands um, and they all came on board and like they put a lot of money into it too because you know,

01:42:34

building a set and having like you know, a stand is like a big investment for these brands, but everyone just absolutely loved it. All the brands have said if you're doing this next year we're coming again um, cuz then we just had like 60 influencers come and like it was just bloody amazing. I can't even put it into words. You need to go and look it up if you haven't seen it already. >> in the description for anyone who would love to check it out. >> good luck cuz there's about 5,000 videos

01:43:00

[laughter] for you to pick from, but I can send you some appropriate links. >> Okay, okay. But yeah, it was just our first ever large scale event and um, it just was received so well. Typically in a world where people would roll their eyes at an influencer event. I'm sure they would. Now what what did you do do you think that made it feel like it was anti-cringe and actually wholesome and actually community-led? Um, again the creators that we invited um, they were you know, um, from all different walks of life um, all

01:43:33

different backgrounds. I think the reason why people roll their eyes at an influencer event these days is because, you know, typically it will be all influencers that look the same, act the same. Like there's nothing there's no substance to it. And there were even some people like like we had creators there that had 2,000 followers and we had creators there that had millions of followers. Like there was no like you got to have minimum 50,000 followers to come to this. Like we had micro influencers, medium-size influencers,

01:44:00

macro influencers and there was like a bit of like speculation online and people saying, "Well, I've never even seen some of these influencers before." I'm like, "That's the whole point." You know, we don't want to be like just another fashion brand doing another influencer event with the same five influencers that go to every other event. And Faded State for a lot of creators was the first event that they've ever been invited to. And I feel like that's so

01:44:25

special. But me taking everyone on the journey, I was we drove up to Byron. I vlogged the whole way there. I vlogged at the house we were staying at. I vlogged us setting up at the estate. I vlogged, you know, all the little things. I took people along on the journey of what it's actually like to host an event like that. I didn't just post a pretty photo when we were there. You know, and I think that's why it like landed so well because people like, "Wow, I feel like I'm on the journey and

01:44:52

I feel like I'm going there." And then everyone was like, "I want to come next year." And people are saying, "Make it a ticketed event. Like make it way bigger. I'd pay to come to this." You created a buzz. You created FOMO. People felt like they were missing out, but they simultaneously felt like they were able to watch and observe and be a part of it. Now, when you think about community building, a lot of people talk about, "Oh, we're going to do community

01:45:13

building to grow our brands." What what do you think community building really is and what does it really require to have people feel something? Posting content that people can either relate to, learn something from, be inspired by, um, you know, and ultimately like you or what it is that you're doing or like you enough that they want to come back and see the next video or whatever it may be. And just also like giving people a space where they feel like they can belong. Would you like to explain what you mean

01:45:45

and and why it's important? Yeah, it's kind of hard to explain. But I think like FATE is a brand that's a good example. Um, by us, you know, doing our first ever influencer event and having people attending and showing up on our socials that are all different shapes and sizes. They come from all different walks of life, all different backgrounds. That and creating content of that gives people who are watching online, um, a space where they feel like they can potentially belong because

01:46:14

maybe they're seeing themselves in some of the people that are in that content. Like being able to join a tribe or finding my people. Yeah, like being a part of something. Whereas, you know, if a brand is um, doing an event and all the guests in attendance all look the same, they have the same body shape and size and they all have the same hair, that isn't really building a community because a lot of people will feel like they wouldn't fit in with that like image. You know what I mean? Yeah.

01:46:42

You're creating a space that looks like a fun place to be where the way that they share POV would be embraced and that they would feel like they're they're they're missing out and they wish they could be there. Exactly right. >> Yeah. Why did it take you eight years to finally feel confident enough to have your first influencer I think we've just done our business journey differently. Like we've always put a focus on our community. Um, we've all done so many community

01:47:06

events. We've done two community brand trips where customers have won like a trip with us and we take them on like an influencer style brand trip, but it's for customers that have won it. And I think like coming from my influencer background, like influencer marketing has always been a a of FATE, but it hasn't been the reason for our success. Like we've always worked with creators and influencers, but in comparison to a lot of other fashion brands, like our influencer marketing is

01:47:31

this and our community has been like this. And I'm doing like small and big with my hands, by the way, for anyone not watching the videos. >> Yeah. Um but I just felt like it was about time, you know, we do influencer marketing not in a huge way, but like we do like collab with influencers, we do paid post with influencers, but not to a large scale. Obviously, I come from an influencer background, so I've been able to influence a lot of Fate's success through my own audience and my

01:47:58

influencer days. Um but it gets to a point where, you know, if we want to grow and reach new audiences, we have to work with influencers. And I feel like Fate Estate was that like us leaping more into being known um to kind of work with influencers. And it was just it rece- it was received so well. Like I think I'm literally going to do it again next year. I'm excited to see what happens next year cuz it sounds like it's going to be >> to live up to and you know, I think next year it's going to have to be bigger and

01:48:27

you know, more community cuz you know, we had all influencers and eight community members attend. But in saying that as well, like the influencers that we had attend uh influencers that are in our community anyway. Like they wear Fate, they love Fate, maybe they've shopped with us before. So it's not like we just invited 60 random influencers that we have no idea who they are or have no relationship with them. Um but yeah. >> fans, people that liked what you guys did. >> But Yeah.

01:48:51

>> Um so yeah, I think we're definitely going to have to do it next year bigger and better. I saw um an article recently that was explaining that the new CEO that took over at Adidas flipped the entire marketing playbook for the company. And initially whiplashed and backlashed the company, but then long-term paid off. And that was 80% of the ad revenue was spent on marketing and advertising, traditional marketing and advertising. And 10, 15, 20% was on influencers and community building.

01:49:18

>> Yep. He inverted it. He went 80% influencers and community building. >> Yep. 20% traditional marketing. Their sales ducked and dipped for about 6 months. >> Yep. But then went back the other way faster than ever before. Yep. >> a while for things to get traction. Yep. Do you find that with community and influencing, it's not an immediate thing, but it takes time for the sales to come in once you're doing big events like this? >> Absolutely. Um and you know, we didn't

01:49:43

do Fête de State to get like immediate sales and conversion. Really? Yeah. But like sure, we launched a collection and like we knew that was going to sell, but that I guess wasn't the objective of what we were doing, you know? Like of course we want to make sales. Like that's what a business is. Like you want to make money. Um but I think what I was more so wanting to get out of it was essentially um you know, more brand awareness. Because again, like we work with a few creators every month, but for

01:50:11

us to be hosting a huge event one day and having 60 people tagging us on a day and in one day and everyone talking about us, I just knew the the big payoff with that was going to be just people talking about us and like Mhm. you know, everyone becoming familiar with Fête de State and hopefully, you know, before we did the event, I said hopefully, this can be an event that we then bring back every year and we build on it. But also, I'm okay with if it's just a one-off and I go, you know what? That probably

01:50:37

wasn't really worth it and we'll never do it again. >> absolutely going to do it again. I know, but I need [clears throat] to like start working on it right now. >> [laughter] >> I'm actually going out for dinner tonight with the PR like agency that we worked on the event with. So I'll probably be talking about when we're going to do it next year. My goodness. It's it's exciting and I knowing your personality and what's going to happen, you're going to try to raise the stakes

01:50:57

and go to another level with it. >> we'll just be turning into like an events company. >> [laughter] >> Fashion is secondary. The event is first. As soon as you get some of your time back from delegation, you're like, let's go let's go launch another event. >> ends. Last two questions here. Um do you find that mixing uh the influencer and the community together creating interesting dynamic when it came to the content and marketing. Absolutely, but not in a way that you

01:51:19

would think. I think notoriously influencers get a bad rap. Which I understand from both sides being that once upon a time I was like an influencer. I don't know if people would see me as an influencer today or more of like a business owner and content creator. I think it's a it's a mix depending on who you talking to. >> Yeah, I think stereotypically, you know, people would think if you get in a room and you put you know, some of the room is influencers and some of the room is

01:51:44

non-influencers. Again, like I just see everyone as the same. Yeah. >> think that there would be like a separation and a segregation between the two. But Fay Estate was a great example like the eight customers that we had come to Fay Estate, like we had big buses bring like all the guests in. And like the customers were on the bus with the influencers. And then they spent the whole day just walking around mingling with all the influencers. There was never a moment of like, oh, those the customers. Like, you know? And so It

01:52:13

was just like Just people hanging out. >> a girlhood. Just girls hanging out, having a good time. It was like 35°. It was so hot that day. Um but it was just like, yeah, like I think again social media has like skewed the perception of influencers and they get put into a different box. The same way that someone comes and starts working in my office and someone goes, "What's she really like in real life?" It's like, "What do you mean? She's a normal person." But I

01:52:38

think that community and influencers 100% can be in the same room together. >> Yeah. What do you think that the fear of missing out of like filming and documenting this and broadcasting this every hour? What what did that create for everyone looking from the outside in? Mhm, I think they felt like they were there. And like I had people, you know, I would cuz I was uploading like every hour. Um I think, you know, people were messaging me or like they'd comment on the last video like, "When's the next update?" Or

01:53:10

like people saying like, "I was waiting for like I just refreshed my phone and wait for the next one." >> People are sitting there refreshing their phone all day. >> genuinely were refreshing waiting for my next video. And like I'd make a video at 11:00 at night when I'm taking my makeup off cuz it went over like 2 days, but a bit longer cuz I went up earlier. So, I was like doing updates at 11:00 p.m. before I went to bed. As soon as I woke up, I'd do another update. And these

01:53:31

were all Reels and TikToks. Like I didn't do any stories. These were in my feed. Um And yeah, again, I just feel like I was creating like taking people on the journey. Um and they were excited for me and for Faith and that this was the first time doing what we were doing. I think it definitely would have put a lot of pressure on to kind of share the journey beforehand because then I was kind of worried like hopefully we can pull this thing off and it turns out as good as we think it is going to.

01:53:59

Um but yeah, like now after the fact and after all the content and videos, like the the comments that I have gotten is just people saying I want to be there next year. Like sell tickets and I'm buying one to come. Um and that in itself is just the biggest compliment ever in the world. Like it doesn't matter how many sales we got out of it. It's just that I've created something that people then want to like come to next year. Like that's so exciting. Like I genuinely think we've

01:54:25

created a festival. I think if you were to look at yourself from a PR perspective, >> Mhm. what would you look at? What would you say is your greatest gift? Cuz I would assume if I'm having a guess would be your ability to know what's interesting. Your ability to make something that might be everyday kind of fun and spontaneous and yeah, and interactive. You can create FOMO. Like your page is constantly creating FOMO. Like you're missing out. [laughter] There's crazy things

01:54:52

happening. You're not here. Um there's there's a there's a certain charm. There's a certain charisma. There's a ton of humor. You're self-deprecating. What other things do you think are there that people could start to pay attention to to pick up for themselves if they wanted to replicate some of the success for them. Just being willing to give something a go and throw something out there and see if it comes back to you. I think that's one of the biggest takeaways and I think that's one of my

01:55:16

biggest skills. And like you said, you know, creating FOMO, entertaining people, making them laugh. 100% I think those are like my biggest skills, but it all comes from like being able to back myself and just give it a go. And I think so many people need to have more of that. You know, like >> Just and back yourself and be your number one fan. Like out of anyone, I'm my biggest fan. I will watch my own video over and over again and crack up. Like and I filmed it and I posted it, but I'll go back and watch it again and

01:55:45

again. >> Yeah, I love that. >> You've got to be your number one fan before anyone else can be your fan. Because if you don't like what you're doing or aren't proud of what you're putting out there or if you don't think it's good enough or funny enough, like how is anyone else going to? And also, I think it's important to remain being your number one fan even if people aren't a fan of you. Because if people are going to be coming at you like you suck, whatever, if you

01:56:10

feel again that confidence within yourself and you're passionate about what you're doing and what you're putting out there, um then, you know, [clears throat] someone might comment on your Tik Tok and be like you're a flop and it's just like I don't care cuz I I like me, I'm proud of what I'm doing, I think I'm hilarious, like I'm cracking up at my own videos, then you're going to be unstoppable. Have you had bouts of people saying negative things or people being nasty?

01:56:35

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Even when we were doing the Fated State thing, like there of course was all the people cuz before Fated State even happened, because I've been hyping it up for weeks and taking people on the journey, people were making Tik Toks about it before it even happened. Like negative content? >> Yeah. What do you mean? >> content like Fated is doing a influencer event, you know. >> [laughter] >> You know. >> Really? Yeah. Yeah. And like the

01:56:59

customers that came like they won accommodation. Like we gave them free accommodation for two nights in the Gold Coast, but it wasn't at the Faders Tate house. It was like you know, on the Gold Coast. And people are like why didn't they get to stay at the fancy Faders Tate house? Like you know, people always have something to say. >> Yeah. No matter what you do in life people are always going to have something to say. Literally no matter what you do in life someone will always have something to say. So you may as

01:57:25

well just do it anyway. A lot of people get scared that when they start making content that this is going to happen. And you're saying that it's a daily occurrence. Maybe not every day I'm not getting negative comments, but I would say like pretty often there would be like people just saying something or having an opinion on me or what I'm doing. But like I'm never going to let that stop me from doing what I want to do, what I'm passionate about, what I'm confident about.

01:57:51

Cuz it doesn't change anything. Sure, if I've done something terrible and the internet is trying to cancel me for it and call me out for it, go ahead. Call me out. I deserve it. But if I'm just a girl giving everything a red hot crack, try new things, throwing a crazy event and hoping that it's going to be received well, then like there's no harm in me doing that. And people are going to say something no matter what, you know? So I may as well just try. Yeah. I I just love the way

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you look at it, the way you're like able to brush it off and not be afraid to just continue to do what you love to do. Again, I think that comes from years of experience and 18 years of putting myself out there. I've got a thick skin. You get a thick skin after a while. People people say some crazy on the internet. >> I know. And especially now, like especially on TikTok, like TikTok is unhinged. Yeah. You watch a TikTok now and you're like oh, I can just picture what the comments are going to be like.

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You open the comments [laughter] and it's Yeah. Okay. In closing, a question we always like to ask is as a guy who runs an agency, I'm obsessed with hanging out with people that take agency in their life. When you think about taking agency and doing the thing you want to do the way you want to do it, what does it mean to you? Just starting even if you feel like you're not ready. Like I think a lot of people can get caught up on feeling like they've got every box ticked and all the ducks in a

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row and like then they can start. But I think to me it's about getting started and then figuring it out as you go and picking up the pieces as you drop them along the way cuz yeah, I think it's the fear of failing or the fear of what people might say or what will my friends from school say that stops people from actually just getting started in the first place. But I'm all about just like getting started even if you just got the bare bones of whatever it is figured out and then just learning the rest as you

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go cuz that's like the beauty of life and business is like no one knows how to run a business. No one's born, you know, knowing how to run a business. You just have to learn that as you go. So yeah, agency for me is just like starting even when you feel like you're not ready. Well, Brittany, it's been a pleasure. I love your radical optimism. I love what you're doing with your [laughter] events. I love what you built with the brands and uh I'm excited to see what you do next year. You'll have to get me

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on in like another year and a half [laughter] and we'll do another reflection on what I've been >> Yeah, let's do it. It seems like it needs to be a ritual at this point. It's been about a year since you were here last so let's do that. >> We'll do it. Thanks for having me. Bye. >> [music]

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