Wallabies Legend's Path to Greatness and Resilience | Drew Mitchell

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Drew Mitchell Drew Mitchell Drew Mitchell for the corner try to Australia someone mentioned to me Drew rugby league you can play in Townsville and Newcastle Rugby Union you can play in Paris and London and that really stuck with me Drew Mitchell is a former wabby who is Australia's all-time greatest World Cup Tri scorer domestically he played over a 100 Super Rugby games for the Queensland Reds Western force and New South Wales warar and represented toon in the French top 14 League I on my first W tour at the end of 2004 so I was

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picked in a squad but you don't get capped unless you get on the field the last game of the year was against England at Twickenham Eddie pulled me aside and said mate just get ready because you're going on and I remember sort of sitting there and it was all the boys were pumped uh because they had won and I was excited for that but also a little bit dejected that like [ __ ] something I wanted so much was so close to he came up to me put his arm around me said don't worry mate you're not

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ready anyway how do you get to the point where you were that good in 2011 playing for the warar against Queensland up in Sun stadium and my toe on my right foot got caught in the turf and it SP around that image your leg was backwards really sort of rattled me going say dog you're not going to like hearing this but Drew Mitchell welcome to the Pod man mate thanks very much for having me we're excited to have you here and I know you're just over the bridge at Bondi not too far away no no it's good

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it's um no when you guys reached out I was like yeah I'm really came to to get in and just sort of see where the chat goes and there's a couple super fans in our midst so they're really excited that you're here and they're like oh my God that's true uh and for those listening like you know you're Australian's uh you're Australia's all-time greatest Rugby World Cup try scorer and you scored 38 tries in 74 appearances uh for the wab bees and you're an absolute

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scoring machine uh well it used to be I mean it's been a while now since I've laced them up but uh yeah I mean I guess the position I play probably lent itself to to finishing some good work inside but yeah I mean I think you know obviously I would have liked to have traded all that in for some silverware and uh some trophies at the end of it but um Unfortunately they weren't as easy to come by as maybe some of those tries but um yeah I mean it's probably one of those things that now that I'm

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retired and it's been a number of years now it's probably something I look back and I'm I'm sort of proud of what I was able to achieve um but yeah there's always sort of there's always a butt you know when you you lose a World Cup final or you weren't able to to win the blood as eye cup in my entire career those types of things probably still sit with you a little bit but probably that's probably just bit more the the competitive side of me 100% I think like being a high performance athlete as you

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were like those are like the Mount Olympus for you and it's like we got to get there and and you build yourself into the psyche like it's going to happen yeah yeah so for you when you were at like I guess Peak career and you're really getting after it like what what what did that mean to you yeah I mean I think you know first and foremost I I I grew up playing sort of rugby league and I didn't play rugby union until I went to secondary school or priv School league yeah yeah so um and then I

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sort of I was playing both from 13 to 17 on the weekends and then I just I just enjoyed my time and I I think the reason I enjoyed rugby at that point was league for me was two hours a week of training on a Tuesday and Thursday night then turn up on a Friday night and play um whereas Union was it was 8 8 hours a day at school like with your best mates right learning about each other going through your first like your your first kiss your you know failing at school or your passing like you know you're like you're

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literally kind of going and growing up with each other so I think the Bond was stronger with the players that I was playing with in rugby which meant I just enjoyed that rugby experience I think a lot more like so so take me into that so when you saying 8 hours a day whereas League was like 2 hours and then a game like what do you mean bys eight hours of I was literally at school right like I'm I'm in the classroom with these guys like I'm I'm at lunchtime and at recess or morning tea or whatever it's called

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um and you're just like it's time spent together and therefore you kind of just forging these bonds and I think you know then we'd still only have probably two two hours of training a week very similar to to the league but I just had all that time together and you know you're going to parties together on the weekends and all the things that happen for you know awkward teenagers and and all that sort of stuff I know I just think that having that shared experience and opportunity for shared experience I

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think meant that the connection was Stronger therefore when I went out to play footy it felt it felt like it meant a lot more so it was like a school for for Union players in particular well not necessarily like I mean my school was some Pats at Shan Cliffe and we were in a predominantly sort of rugby league area but the the school uh competition that we played in was only off at Rugby Union um so yeah we I played that uh on the Saturdays and at first it was difficult like I didn't really like the

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rock kind of situations cuz I didn't really know about it wasn't familiar with with it I broke my hand cuz I was leading with my hands which you know you're not meant to do you meant to lead with your shoulders um all these sort of little things it almost like deterred me initially but I stuck with it and uh you know and really enjoyed um my time and and you know I guess towards the back end of my schooling I mean my school in year 11 we lost every game probably by 40 to 50 points um and then my first my

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year in year 12 we won our first game and it was the first game the first 15 won in 10 years or so so we weren't a strong rugby school by any means um but we were sort of building and and you know what's great to see is the 20 odd years that since I'd left um you know they've gone on and won premierships and all that sort of stuff so they've been sort of really building which is which is great but um yeah I don't know I guess I was faced with the decision at the back end of school uh to there was a

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Jersey flag uh contract uh that I was speaking to the kry Bulldogs about or go to the Reds rugby academy uh which was the the Rugby Union aspect and and I just remember sort of you know thinking about the two different sports and the the different sort of paths I could take and how old how old were you 17 18 years old um and you know to what I was speaking about before about the experience that I had in rugby was you know like I was really enjoying that side of it but I think also someone I don't know I can't remember who it was

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but someone mentioned to me Drew rugby league you can play in Townville and Newcastle rugby you can play in par in London and that really stuck with me it's something that really stuck with me the the global aspect and nature of the game of Rugby Union and and and it's not just from a you know a traveling point of view CU I could get on a plane and go to those places but it it's the it's the cultures that you experience it's the people you meet it's also the opportunities that brings as well and um

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you know which is I guess we'll probably get to that but later in life later in my career rather um there's an opportunity for me to go play in France and I I took it yeah that's exciting and I think when you're looking at it as an opportunity like one definitely sounds more exciting where it's more Global it's more of a spectator audience in different different countries do you experience like anything in particular culturally that shocked you about a team or like a game that you played um I mean

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I guess when I went well to be fair I mean every time I went to South Africa it was just eye opening um from the way that they support their teams uh to you know just the like visually what you see in South Africa and the um the contrasts of Liv living conditions and um like there's just there's just like a lot when you go over there and it's like you know like you're outside of your comfort zone and what is normal for us and then you go and experience what or not necessarily experience but you're

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dropped into someone else's normal and um you know that can be quite sort of you know um eye opening for sure um I mean it was great I I loved every every part of touring South Africa but then if you go from there and I go to my time when I went to France and I couldn't speak the language um you know their attitude to like is very different like I think what I really loved I lived in um the south of France and right on the Mediterranean and I just like that their attitude to life was they they work to

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live they don't live to work whereas I feel like a lot of our attitude here in Australia is like your like your life is about the the work life and it's the same week every week just to get through and maybe you have the Saturday with your family and friends but Sunday is about setting yourself up for the week ahead and I don't know I just feel like over there they they just like they they work just enough to be able to then live and and really um and get the most out of like squeeze a lemon of life and just there

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time on the on the beach there's you know the they take um Siesta and they take like their lunches long and that's communal and it's you know I I just like the way that they really approach their life yeah and I recently went to Bolivia together with Cam and we went to Santa Cruz and uh we went to um a place called Yuni and I remember Cam and I were on the flight and we were flying over the desert for a long time and they have these like really open planes and and Salt Flats at like 4,000 ft altitude and

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I remember landing and looking at the window like there's just this ocean of buildings and nothing's painted and everything's just brick and it's raw and the streets are made out of you know dirt roads and and people have little to nothing and they're very happy and I think when you get off the flight and you start mingling with the locals you're like this is normal like wow and I think that there's such a an eye openening experience to be had when when you when you actually get dropped in it

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you can see photos you can see movies and all that but actually being there it's totally different feeling it's different yeah think smelling it feeling it and hearing it and all like all when all your sensors are activated like it's a different whole ball game yeah and you were experiencing that at a young age yeah yeah I mean and that was you know because back when I first started professionally at sort of 1819 our domestic comp was it's funny to say that but I guess it was it was three

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uh Australian teams it was the South African teams and New Zealand sides right so our domestic season was traveling to those places and then then you'd have your International season where you'd go back and play in South Africa and New Zealand and uh and then you go on a tour at the end of the year to you know to the UK and Ireland so you know to be able to do that like you know this is pre phone cameras and you know we go out there with your Sony Cyber Shot and you'd make sure that was all

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charged it was just like I know it's a bit of a a different one because I think also prior to all all of the devices that we have now like you you're kind of just living it a bit more and you feel it a bit more more in the moment more in the present let's focus on like taking stories exactly right yeah so um yeah I mean it was it was it was like a really unique experience and um I don't think it was ever lost to me in the moment but I think it's also something that when you look back you think gez I was I was

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pretty pretty fortunate to have those experiences really cool man and okay so something I've been wanting to ask you is Australians are known for almack talk mhm so out of all the nations you went on the pitch with like who do you think had the best smack talk oh um oh geez usually it's probably the ones that you know have got the wood on you right like so New Zealand we're always pretty good because we just we weren't beating them they had they had every right to sit there and talk it up

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to us and there's not a great deal that we could sa back that was really going to sting them because they could always just you know rubbing in the fact that we haven't won in so long and and unfortunately that streak is still going but I mean there's always sort of like just sort of one liners but I mean I like to kind of give it back you know or maybe in initiate it sometimes but um but it was always I just think the one thing I love about rugby as well and I'm sure it's the same in other sports I'm

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only sort of speaking on one my experience but is it can you can go out there and you can say all this sort of stuff so long as there's always a line and the respect his always sort of the the key thing where there's just areas You Don't Go Near um but if you know I actually sometimes I'd chuckled myself if someone gave me something that was like witty and and you know like poignant and it kind of got me a bit I'm like [ __ ] that was pretty well done mate like you know I mean I didn't want to

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say that in the moment but I internally I was like yeah props to you like that wasn't bad but I don't know I think New Zealand would probably I'd just have to say New Zealand because there was nothing really I could say back to them that was really going to sting them because they had the ultimate of just you know we haven't beaten them in so long did you have any like go-to lines that you would throw out no um no I mean I was always sort of just on the run like I mean I remember uh one time we

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were playing in tulon so when I was playing over in France and up there you sort of play through the Christmas you know New Year's um period and we're playing an RS team I know it was a French team at the time but there was an RS 10 playing for them and uh he just was having a shocking game at at fly half in the first half and and I just sort of said listen mate like you know you're carrying on like s you just keep gifting us all half I said just do yourself a favor and just don't come out

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at half time and he like that that really got got under his skin but like you know you're sort of saying it again because we're we're leading pretty comfortably and you know obviously I'm saying it sort of tongue and cheek but also with a you know fair fair amount of s being a bit of a smartass at the time as well but you can kind of do that when you're in that position I'm certainly not doing that if it was on the other foot right like if I'm having a shocker I'm not sitting there starting you know

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like aggravating and initiating chat is there certain points in the game where it happens the most like in the rock or anything like that no I mean for people in my position probably more like if you're setting up at set piece so like when they when the when the big boys are like taking their time to pack the scrum yeah there's time for us right we're we're maned up you know maybe 10 15 me between you but you've got a little bit of time where I'll sort of sit there and say mate take me on the outside I'll

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leave you the space or you know like kind of it's also like little things like you know mentally to try and psychologically get in their head like I was say I'll set a bit tighter mate and you take me on the outside and then they start thinking [ __ ] like should I take the outside you know like yeah so but I could I only got to that point when I was comfortable in my ability to shut it down like there's no chance I'm sitting there going M take me on the outside and then he takes me on the outside right

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like yeah so it kind of got to a point where you know through experience and and I guess runs on the board that I was able to kind of get to that position where you can be a little cheekier and especially if you've got someone maybe a little greener opposite you and you just know that maybe they don't have that sort of mental fortitude in that in that moment to sort of know how to necessarily deal with like a guy who's a bit more senior and played a bit more in those moments that um is offering you an

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opportunity on the outside do I take that or do I not like so you're using this as like a psychological advantage yeah sometimes yeah because there's times like I you know there were times where for example ctly Beal was a young guy coming through um you know he was touted as a WABE when he was sort of 15 16 years old you know WABE of the future and he kind of came on I was playing at the Western force of the time he played at the West the warar and we we played him against the warar at subak oval and

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I thought like this kid's got everything right he's got all the skills he's also got a lot of confidence but I just wanted I just thought this the way for me to try and get at him is in in his head right and not because of anything that I saw but just because I knew what I was like when I was 18 and there was all this pressure and you know there's everyone's talking you up and whatever but then you've got to go out there and perform and uh and I just remember um there was one time I I sort of ran

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through ctle and he's a good mate of mine so I I can say this but I ran through ctle and on the way back I just asked him if he didn't get his shoulders across the nullable and um and so he blew off at me but then ly deiri ran over to you know like to basically look after his boy and he and ly LT gave me a shot but yeah but um and it was sort of just I just keep chipping him through the game and it wasn't until years later when we were playing together at the warar and we were really close mates and he said

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oh M like I I haven't said this before but you actually really got at me at that game right so that was something where I'm like well this guy's got all the skills right like he he can open up the game at any point but let's test him another way and you know there was nothing that I said that necessarily overstepped the mark but it it's just one of those things and I think you know I mean it happened to me as well like there was times when I first started started I was playing for the Reds and I

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was playing against the brumes and I just remembered every time I got the ball George grian who who defend behind the line and behind The Rock he would just start yelling out apples and i' be like apples and I'm so I'm running back and cuz I was I was like 81 kilos playing you know in like I was a a light I was quick but I was light and I was weak as well right can in comparative comparatively speaking to the guys that I was opposing and so like 62 64 you 120 kilos yeah like big boys right and so i'

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go into contact sometimes they just hold me up or whatever so anyway this apples apples would just keep going on and I'm sort of running back into the defense or or whatever it might be and I just keep hearing this this thing and then it wasn't until after the game I um I asked one of the guys I said oh what was what was actually sorry it was when I was in the Wes camp and Gregs was part of that team and uh I think one of the the my teammates the Reds were like oh chipping GRE what about you calling Drew apples I

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said look guys like what's apples mean and they said oh it's for apple turnover cuz every time you run the ball you turn it over right so like then then it just like it got to me like mentally like going into the next time I playay Greeks cuz you know you want to want these guys one that you're playing against but also two then eventually playing with in representative teams that you have their respect and they also think and feel and believe that you deserve to be there alongside them and if he thinks I'm an

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apples right I haven't earned that yet so that was something that I'm like okay I just need to keep working at it I need to keep lifting I need to get my body position better and it was it was embarrassing in the moment but it was also then became motivation for me to then go okay I've got to turn I've got to I've got to get a new nickname I can't be apples for my entire career but you know so sometimes that sort of mental um challenge can be as impactful if not more than the

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physical do you think that like in today's day and age people might see it as bullying or do you have a different perspective on uh no I don't think so I I think it's you know like in that moment like I think it's fine I I think you know I mean everyone's looking for an edge right like and you look at athletes now and largely speaking across the board everyone's pretty capable in terms of their power and their strength and their speed so there's there's there small little things that can set you

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apart and again respect is the utmost like there's there's just lines you don't cross you don't talk about people's families or Partners or whatever but if you can have a go at someone and get them thinking about something else other than what they're actually there to do then fair play I I think it's interesting how like men interact typically through banter and trying to be as offensive as possible like for example me and my crew here we're always trying to one up each other

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when we're traveling and it becomes a part of like our social contract of our relationship sure you know get a bunch of guys together we're going to Banter and make fun of each other do you think there's a certain aspect of that that when you're playing uh together with them on a team you've like earned their respect because they have I guess put you through a trial by fire yeah I think so I mean I think it sometimes as well like if you're in a a social or a team environment if they're not joking with

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you then something's wrong something's wrong right you haven't heard that yet or your position in that that Circle or that team hasn't necessarily been established just yet so um I know I think it's a it's a sort of maybe it's a weird thing that in I guess well I mean I can only speak from male dominated um friendship groups or or teams is that um you almost want them to be joking with you and you know sometimes fun and jokes at your expense because then you know that they're comfortable enough with you

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and how you'll respond to it I don't think it's you know I mean I think there you know like that the whole grian thing called me apples it's not offensive it's not it's not like it's not necessarily rude um I mean sure he's he's identifying a weakness of mine but I mean whether he says it verb or not they've said it in a team meeting anyway right like everyone knows in their team that when Drew Mitchell's running the ball hold him up because we'll get a

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turnover so I mean it that's just part of trying to gain an advantage in in that sporting Arena I mean sure he's verbalized it and then once I've realized what it was like sure it embarrassed me but it also then became motivation for me but yeah to your point around you know um I I think it's just got to be a healthy balance right like the team stuff like you can chip each other because there's always probably a little bit of truth behind it you know like someone's calling you chicken legs

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or something you've probably got chicken legs right maybe get in don't miss squat day this week or whatever but um don't forget the legs yeah um but I think if there's a a healthy balance of then also you know applauding each other and complimenting each other and and endorsing each other and you know just making sure that it's not just all one way condescending or joking or or whatever it might be but um I think if you've got that uh that healthy bance and it's and it's fine so you mentioned

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that you played for the Reds MH and I understand in 2004 you uh were playing for the Reds for Queensland and then you debuted for the Wes the following year quite a in my opinion quite a big transition uh being so young did you feel the pressure playing for your country compound at that moment or did you need time to catch up well I mean I actually I went on my first WBY tour at the end of 2004 so I was picked in a squad but you don't get capped unless unless you get on the field and so the

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end of that year we went to uh the UK and the last game of the tour the last game of the year was against England at Twickenham now I was named on the bench and so I was like okay I'm going to be i c WABE 2004 right in the same year as I started uh Super Rugby and I remember Eddie Jones our coach and uh we got to half time and Eddie pulled me aside and said mate just get ready because you're going on and I'm like [ __ ] all right okay we're on here my parents were over there and I'm like

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and as the game paid out is probably a little bit too close and I didn't get put on therefore I'm not capped I have to wait at least until July next year because that's the next opportunity and I remember sort of sitting there and it was all the boys were pumped uh because they' won and I was excited for that but also a little bit dejected that like [ __ ] you know like it was so close something I wanted so much was so close to me but I just hadn't yet because I didn't get on the field I wasn't a cap

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WBY right because who knows what might happen um you know was that opportunity lost forever who knows right and then I remember there was a defense coach at the time John muggleton uh former leagy he came up to me put his arm around me he said don't worry mate you're not ready anyway I was like [ __ ] that is not what you needed to say to me right now right um and you know you're like at a low and he's just like get lower yeah get lower yeah it was like one of those sort of tough love kind of moments but you know

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maybe in hindsight he probably was right like who knows but um but yeah then fast forwarding I had another uh Super Rugby season and then got my opportunity Off the Bench against the spring box here in Sydney um and I don't know I just I just felt probably because I had another whole year of Super Rugby under my belt um I started to feel a little bit physically a bit more capable um I I was probably a bit more excited than nervous at that point um also cuz when you come off the bench like I had a full half of

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just sort of watching it play out having guys in my ear with experience who were on the bench with me you know sort of just in my ear a little bit um I mean it was unusual cuz I I went on it at uh outside sento just because there was a number of injuries um and what does that mean sorry so like I normally played on the wing and I went on in a different position like a little bit foreign to me um then I had wend saor who also plays on the wing he was at inside Center so we had a number of injuries so it was

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like a bit of a makeshift backline by the time I got on and I only got on probably five minutes into the second half so like a lot earlier than probably anyone was anticipating but we were we had a dominant game against the spring box that game and you know I was able to get a try and oh know it was just like one of those like okay this is this is pretty cool like um went into the dressing room and sang the national anthem you have a you know scull of beer for your first cap scalled another beer

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for my first try and and then proceeded to to be sick in a bucket yeah sick in a bucket and then there was a hand sort of just in my Phil and I looked up and sort of WIP my mouth and it was John Howard was the then prime minister and I was like I shook his hand he was saying congrats and you know it was all very sort of surreal and then but to your point about being nervous was probably not until another couple of games where I got my first start so we went to South Africa played another one but came back

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to play the All Blacks again in Sydney and I was starting at fullback in that game and tana umanga was the uh the All Blacks uh Captain um you real sort of dominant sort of figure and um he unusually named me called me out in the leadup just saying we're going to Target this young guy at fullback like with high balls and all that sort of stuff like you said this verbally yeah he said it in the Press oh he said it to the Press yeah yeah so I'm sort of reading you know going into my first game like

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first start as well against the or how did that feel getting C out in the Press yeah I mean and and you know it was probably just another one of those sort of you know mental ball games right like just to like just let him sit on this which I did for three or four days since hearing that going to the game was just sitting on it I was out there just under that many high walls of training and you know I just sort of it it maybe change the approach that that I would have had going into that game but I remember

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going out and doing the anthem and then the haaker started and I've said I've s told this story before but standing there in front of the Harker there's you know there's a lot going on and you know it's a challenge effectively it's a challenge from them they're challenging you and um and I was sort of standing there and I'm thinking do I do I just look around but then I unfortunately for me I caught the eye of tan humanga and then I'm thinking internally I'm like don't look away cuz

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you'll think I'm a [ __ ] and I'm I'm you know like not stepping up with the CH bit out now they're doing theer staring at me this is intense but then I'm like but also I don't want to look away be well I was also sorry I had this internal dialogue thinking if if I keep staring at him he's going to think that I'm like challenging him and I don't want that either right so I was having this sort of like I was was in this conundrum like internally going [ __ ]

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what am I doing here like throwing down a stair having a staring contest challenge with with tan um and then um we got into the game and I think about 20 or so minutes in I scored a try and I went back to halfway and just vomited like that would normally be the last thing I do before I went out to play cuz I just I guess to Sidetrack or provide context I'm not the type of person that can concentrate on a game from the morning I wake up like I can't I just play the game out too many times

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in my head and would mentally exhaust myself before I actually got to the moment so I just got to a point in my career where I was able to back my preparation not think about it just Bank it until the moment where they said all right 3 minutes and you put your jersey on and then I'm locked in because so take us through that process like what would you what would you do in your heads how would you prepare and and what would happen if you if you overthought the process yeah I mean if I overthought

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the process I'd I'd sometimes you know like I cuz we're big on sort of visually like having a look at tape and and all these and visualizing things watch the games learn i' watch different clips and I'd know whether my opposing Winger steps off his light left foot or his right foot or if he likes to bump or what hand he likes to fend with will he take me on the outside all these sort of things right like it's more just arming yourself it doesn't mean to say it's going to happen every time but it's more

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just like arming yourself with kind of knowledge about who you're marking so i' I just I'd Bank all that through the week but if I was to play it out too much during the day I'd just exhaust myself mentally I wouldn't feel uh as focused or as on edge as I needed to be when I go out there so when I first started playing professionally I didn't know how to prepare for a game like you know professional game at least um and so I started to mimic people that I looked up to and I started to mimic

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Chris leam who was a fullback at the queen and reds but I just quickly realized that he LA and I were just very different personalities and what he did to to uh to prepare was not conducive to what I needed and then I'd copy a Wendell sailor and what he did was also not conducive what did wend do well Wendell I mean we'd room together on game day and he'd just be in his red Speedos all day and he'd be on the tab phone account and instead of going to the the pregame meal down in the in the

00:29:18 - 00:30:09

hotel where it's all put on for us he'd get steak sandwiches and fries and couple cans of coke and and so I'm sitting there and I'm like I'm doing my ass on the punt and then I'm eating all this heavy food and I I'd go out there and I'd feel like [ __ ] right did you tried the speedo yeah and the food I mean I kep some clothes on you kind of know when you're you know when Wendell's not wearing much you you you keep your clothes on um but um I know I guess from

00:29:44 - 00:30:40

different experiences I had with players that I looked up to I started to work out pretty quickly what worked for me and what didn't right and a little bit little bit that yeah and I was someone that kind of had to distract myself i' and I'd find people in my team that were like-minded CU I wouldn't want to upset someone else's preparation by going and having a laugh or a joke with with them and throw them off so I'd quickly find who it was acceptable for me to go and joke with and you know similar sort of

00:30:11 - 00:31:03

like-minded kind of approaches um and I'd go out and do my warmup and then I'd come back in and once the sort of manager or the or a coach would say all right Boys 3 minutes or whatever it is you put your jersey on then I'd quickly duck off to the bathroom cuz then it would all this emotion and nerves and all that stuff that I've been suppressing all day would just come and flush me and it would just be like bang like I'm on here and that that would make me ill I'm not to say I'm not

00:30:37 - 00:31:31

saying that this is this should be everyone's right but that was just how my body kind of dealt with it I just was like okay got it up cuz you're trying to emotionally integrate or you're trying to suck yourself I think it was just like cuz I was almost I got to a point where I was any type of nervous energy that I'd feel through the day i' I'd just I'd be able to shut it out and I'd change my focus and I'd think about something else and I wouldn't allow myself to think about what's about to

00:31:04 - 00:31:54

come and so then all of a sudden once it's actually here like there's no there's no way of suppressing it it just sort of like it just showed itself and it showed itself that much that I it would make me physically ill um and then but after that I'd be fine like I'd join the Huddle just wipe the eyes you know maybe bit red in the eye but then I'd go out there and i' I'd play so then going back to my first start with uh against the All Blacks I I didn't have that

00:31:29 - 00:32:19

moment before I ran out but then once I scored the try and it was almost I think also it was nerves but it was also relief like okay I can match it out here like I belong out here and um you know I can I can sort of now just settle into my into my role um rather than sort of being you know CU there was doubt there was doubt when I was looking at Tango there was doubt when I'm sitting there under the first high ball all this sort of stuff but once I kind of I did something I had a moment in that game

00:31:54 - 00:32:54

where I scored that try and I felt Within Myself like I can do this like it I kind of I know like I the belief that I had for myself was justified and at that point I'm like okay I can calm so would you find things like getting a try and then stack that in your psyche and be like okay cool that validates I belong here um not necessarily a um I mean tries certainly they help but I think you know sometimes just like you know whether it was feeling good in contact whe it was feeling like I was running on

00:32:25 - 00:33:17

top of the ground rather than into the ground like as an athlete exactly yeah so like as an athlete like there were times where whether it was fatigue or whether it was just not necessarily being as fit as I needed to be or or a sharp like there were times where I felt like genuinely I was barely touching the grass when I was running right like you just feel like you're on top of it where there's other times where you feel like you're kind of like you're running into the ground you know like you know like

00:32:51 - 00:33:27

you know sometimes when you're walking your you know the weight of the world's on your shoulders and you're shuffling and you're you're scuffling you're scuffling your feet as opposed to when the things are good your chest is up and you're walking on top like it's a little bit like that like you know when and it's the confidence you've got in your game at that point in time it was you know those sort of moments where you're like I'm going to beat that Defender

00:33:09 - 00:33:52

like it's just like you just there's like this innate sort of confidence in you that you're like I'm giveing me the ball I'm going to I'm going to beat this guy but there's also times in my career where I just didn't have that and you know that's the talk about purple patches like that was like or when you're in the zone that was when you're feeling like you're on top of the ground you know and then there's times where you know there's just nothing you no

00:33:31 - 00:34:26

matter how hard you try you feel like you're getting deeper and deeper into the ground or into a into a slum of like like a form slump or or whatever so it's funny how you kind of manage those moments and it's interesting how like I imagine every game is quite different as well depending on how you build yourself up depending on how you start when you play on the field depending who you up against and who's um marking you and all the rest of it take me into the moment for for a moment here take me into the

00:33:58 - 00:34:55

cuz I think it's a it's quite an interesting Dynamic where the whole stadium goes quiet yeah they put on this performance and you're right in front of them and essentially they're channeling their energy at you and it's this um you know it's this really like intense war cry essentially what did it feel like experiencing that for the first time and take me into that moment yeah I mean even when you're talking about that I'm getting Goosebumps cuz I just think it's

00:34:26 - 00:35:31

like a really unique experience to have and you know I mean I know there's been discussions around whether it gives them an unfair Advantage whatever like I just anyone that sort of floats the idea of it should be banned I just think should be muted like those like it's a a really great part of uh our game uh I know it's not exclusive to our game but I just think probably out of anything that I've seen the All Blacks perform it the best um like the the unity they have like when you said it's intense it's it's

00:34:59 - 00:35:48

it's intense it's AEM motive it's very hard not to sit there and get fired up by it as well just by standing there standing still with your arm around your mate you stand there with your arms around your mates you know accepting that challenge but then there's moments where you just feel the guy whose arms around you just that grip tightens a bit he brings you in a bit closer like you know jeez I'm getting myself right now man so like you know like it's it's it's

00:35:24 - 00:36:11

it's an opportunity also for us to really get together and just go like we're going to take these guys on together like sure it's you know like it's it's their opportunity to challenge us but it's also our opportunity to accept that challenge and really get tired of together and and let use use what they're bringing to us as an opportunity for us to go out there and and get a bit tighter and and work for each other and then you know then and like you know after all of like after

00:35:48 - 00:36:41

every time it's finished you'll you'll see or hear any of the boys that face it just like start to like there'll be a couple Boys Gone let's get into it like you know it's it's very hard not to get uh emotional or emotive with it right because it's it's raw emotion and I think it's I think it's a great part of the of the game whenever I've seen it I think it's beautiful it it brings homage and and um I guess Heritage and tradition into the game and obviously

00:36:14 - 00:37:08

like I think you know as an athlete you know you're going through so much together and it's so intense and there you know people are injured and people are you know training extremely hard and it's it's a uh yeah like you said it's an invitation Challenge and for you do you think like in that moment when you're when you're experiencing this because I think as a part of like the perception around that team is you know these guys have been dominant for such a long time the All

00:36:41 - 00:37:37

Blacks have this Heritage and this aura about them that they're a welld disciplined team they've been on top of the game for a long time where other teams have had es and flows what is it that you think that gives the old blacks an edge uh and and what is it about that team you think that they've got dialed in I think it's I mean obviously this is from an outside looking end but I've also you know I'm quite close mates with a couple of guys that played for bikes through that that dominant period but

00:37:09 - 00:38:07

you know I mean they they have like specific training sessions for the Harker but it's not just the training of the Harker itself it's the understanding of it it's the knowledge of it it's it's knowing who they are where they're from and their connection to their culture and I think that's probably uh probably an advantage that they probably they've had more so than than us like I would say that we haven't done enough to to connect to our culture right whether it's our

00:37:39 - 00:38:39

indigenous culture whether it's our Anzac culture whether like whatever it might be um to to Really sort of draw on that but not just draw on it but to know it to understand it to live it and to be proud of it and to and to not yeah like not like find a way where it can become our our advantage um you know there's times where we're hearing cometry or it's the Anzac Spirit or whatever it might be right but but what is that like let's really understand it let's really know it let's

00:38:09 - 00:39:04

live it like to to be able to live it you have to know it and you have to understand it right so um I know I just think that you look at the All Blacks and the way that they talk about um their their culture but it's not just talking about it's the way they live it it's the way they speak it um and I think that's what then helps them connect to the Harker and and really draw something from that when they perform it yeah cuz you see the whole audience goes quiet Australians and new zealanders are like

00:38:36 - 00:39:33

paying attention to that moment and um for you guys like what are some things you that you um felt that it gave him psychologically is it a unification is it like we're all the same we stem from our forefathers like like what psychological benefit do you think it really gave them that that the Wes might be missing yeah I mean I mean well for for one thing the Harker is something for them to own right like in that moment that performance it's it's theirs it's uniquely theirs they they've

00:39:05 - 00:39:59

they've had the traditional uh ketee that they've performed for a long time but now they got the capoo forgive me if my pronunciation is wrong on that but which is a a now more um specialized all black haer that only the All Blacks do um and sometimes they'll they'll perform either one of those depending on who they're playing against and um and some see that if they do the new one it's because there's more more respect against that opponent so that brings another element to it but to

00:39:32 - 00:40:21

your point around like what is Advantage I think it's it's something for them to really own something for them to really be proud of for them to sit there and take the time during their their test week to prepare for that as well it's you know there's all this preparation going into the game itself but they still take the time out of that to then go and prepare for something that goes for 90 seconds before the game's even played um and it's something yeah like something for them to really take

00:39:56 - 00:40:51

ownership over and you know the person who gets to lead it you know it's a from my understanding it's a it's a real sort of proud moment for them to be able to lead the Hawker it's so there's all these sort of different layers just in the Harker itself that helps unify that group and not just that group but their supporters their their um their people yeah and uh on the other side of things when it comes to the wallabies like what kind of rituals did you guys have as a team to build Unity to kind of build

00:40:24 - 00:41:22

that camaraderie and that spirit I mean look there's there's different things things that different coaches will bring in and I think the other thing as well is that in the last sort of oh through my career um you know there's there's been a a real uh conscious push to be able to understand who we are and and who we are one as a team a national team but also who is it that makes up that national team because there's you know there's a lot of players that um of are of Fijian

00:40:52 - 00:41:42

Tongan San Heritage um Mai as well um and you know players from everywhere I mean you know Steven Mo was a wbe captain from Irish parents born in Saudi Arabia you know it was so all these little things was about to understand who who it is that we're standing there like you when we're facing the haaka who have you got your arm around who are you squeezing tight on their Jersey like because those things were important right is is if I'm going to work my ass off this guy next to me I need to know

00:41:18 - 00:42:17

who he is and I and also if I need to have that trust that he's going to do the same for me I also need to know who he is and he also needs to know who I am and what what drives me so I think probably I mean from a a broad aspect perspective it's probably ours is probably more focused on getting to know us as the player or the teammate that you're playing alongside and all the different teammates and coaching and staff as well um whereas probably not as much delving into the history and the culture um

00:41:50 - 00:42:52

something to really like bind us together I mean that those Mutual bonds are are strong but there's like you know there's I know I just think if there's probably something we we could probably instill more into into our group it's those bonds are great but having something overarching over all of that would be beneficial I think I think I like the whole idea of like getting to know the person you're going into battle with essentially and many would say that you guys or as far as the Wes go you you

00:42:21 - 00:43:21

were playing in the Golden Era of the Wes um many would say that and I think for you like what is it that you felt that you brought to the team culturally and and who are some of the primary people that you felt like really brought that to the team yeah I mean I I think in any sort of team or uh whether it's you know at work or or even um you know in a in a in a sporting sense is you need to have different characters but you need to be able to create a space where they can show them true selves

00:42:51 - 00:43:46

right like there's no point having these characters that don't feel comfortable enough not being themselves not being their authentic s so you need the jokar you need the Prank Star you need the serious guy you need the um the guy that's always asking questions like you just need everyone right and you need to find it in a way where there's a balance but and you get that balance by mutual respect respect for each other but respect for the coach respect for the opportunity all those types of different

00:43:17 - 00:44:13

things um I I think is is really crucial because you you know it's a long it's a long year it's uh it's a very serious and sometimes really intense environment so you need the Jokers to bring light when light is needed um you know sometimes you get it wrong and uh you know I was probably sort of that guy that brought a bit of light to the scenarios or were you the jokester yeah like a little bit yeah I mean yeah I think so because I but it's also like you know I mean I was probably renowned

00:43:46 - 00:44:34

to you know like throw out little questions during a fitness session that I knew would get under the strength and conditioning coaches like just not under his skin but i' get into his head because the last thing an snc coach wants or needs is a soft tissue injury right if they're pushing us that hard that someone tears a hamstring then he's getting his ass chewed by the coach cuz that's just not that's not on right like I thought that was all on the The Players Earnest no no no no so like you

00:44:10 - 00:45:01

know if you're getting told to do x amount of reps and sets and whatever and then you ping something then you know that's on the the load right like the load management or lack thereof or whatever so if we're sitting there we're lined up more pressure yeah yeah right and so then I would play on that and just go yeah right boys just keep going keep going till you tear the Hemy off the bone or you know just like all these little things and then all of a sudden our six set um session went to five sets

00:44:35 - 00:45:22

so you know or or the boys sort of I became became known with amongst the boys like they'd be like oh true oh you say something about our hamstrings and like so but I had a good relationship with like the the different snc coaches that they knew I was sort of taking the pier so we'd walk off to get a drink and he's like mate can you just shut up like we got to get through this session I'm like mate cuz that that helped me get through it right like i' I'd have to distract myself in those moments cuz you

00:44:59 - 00:45:54

know I was in The Hurt Locker and I would still keep going and I'd always do my work but I just needed to kind of have that sort of comic relief to kind of get me through it and sometimes you know I'm sure some players probably thought I you know shut up or whatever but others liked it but I don't know I to your point around like the teams I just think that you just need to have an environment where people can feel and be themselves um but those individuals also need to know when it's time to be

00:45:26 - 00:46:22

serious when it's time to be chill when it's time to joke all those types of things right like and and you get that through experience when you think of the I guess the career you've had and the different people you've played with who are the main characters that come to mind for you um yeah I mean you know I mean you get some really intense guys um so and I don't mean intense in a negative way I think intense in terms of the way they apply themselves the way that they um you know their application to training

00:45:55 - 00:46:54

their application to nutrition their application to watching tape doing study on the opposition writing down notes of plays and all that sort of stuff like the MOs and the Johnny Wilkinson or you know two that come to mind in that like they nothing that they have ever achieved is by accident or chance because they are so diligent in what they do right and then you've got um you know then there's other guys that not on the other end of the spection of that because you know you got Jokers like say for example of

00:46:24 - 00:47:15

Tom Carter people may not necessarily know a Tom Carter but he was a guy that I played early in my career with in Australian sevens in 2003 and he was just like the greatest bat like he was the greatest teammate and he's really loud and he's really in your face and he's real Lippy on the field and then I went back to playing Super Rugby and I was playing against him and I just thought this guy's an [ __ ] like I couldn't stand him i' forgotten about the the time that I had and how much I

00:46:49 - 00:47:41

liked him because you like play with him but you but then then when I went against him I was like this guy's a dick like you know it was like he was he was so good at being a dick that he I forgot that he was actually really good blow and then I went back and then later in my career I went back I signed with the warar and he was my teammate again I was like this guy's the best right like he was just so good like on the field at agitating and uh you know getting under your skin or just being an annoyance and

00:47:14 - 00:48:00

a nuisance that like he' it almost like he' he'd met him black me just flashed me and I'd forget about what he was like when I was playing with him but then when you play against him you think this guy's a dick but then you I've then played with him again what ni guy I think he's I think he's the best you know and there was times where I went in debat with him in the media as well like when people would call him out for for the exact same things I was I was questioning about as well I'm like no

00:47:38 - 00:48:31

like he's he's like and he's one of the great guys so um you know you kind of have those types of guys in your in your team as well which it's just all really it's really important to have just different characters um you know and pranksters or or jokesters or just you know then you got your guy that brings the music on the bus and you've got the guy that's you know like that jokes around and you know we always cut in at the buffo line and just you're like oh bro like get to the B he's oh come on

00:48:04 - 00:48:55

sharing his caring you're like [ __ ] off mate like whatever just go in front like you know just like these little sort of little things that um I think they're the little bits that I miss when now that I'm retired right like having those moments when you're on a tour and you know you're on a bus tight you're on a bus like for hours together for hours or you're flying hotels hotels and you're in a bed you know double beds that got a a cabinet sort of in between you two

00:48:30 - 00:49:31

sometimes we'd move that and get closer right like you know because you're on tour a long time and um you know so you get to know each other really well um so they're the moments that I think when I go into now my corporate life or the next chapter is that you can't replicate that um and you know sure I miss the the feeling I got when I would run onto a field or um those moments in the dressing room after um or the moments you know after a win for the wbees when you're singing John Williamson's True

00:49:00 - 00:49:58

Blue on the bus with a beer in hand like those kind of moments like you know like they just like they're just a really unique special sort of moment I don't get those now um and that's the that they're the they're the things that I miss um you know when people say well do you miss playing I'm like well to a degree but I miss those shared experiences and those connections what do you think those moments mean to you um man I think they I think there's more significant because you go through

00:49:28 - 00:50:38

so much together right it's it's the training it's putting yourselves in a dark hole you know countless times uh in cardio and phys like physically but then also going through the the pressures of of going out and Performing uh sometimes the the negative media and social media and comments and all that sort of stuff makes you sort of baton down the hatches and so all these sort of elements to it then mean that those moments are forged by something really strong and unique and unique to you guys because you're

00:50:04 - 00:50:54

the only ones going through it in that instance right um so to be able to sit there and after a win and so immediately after a win you'd be arm in arm and we'd sing the national anthem you know this after a wab win uh to have that moment like and you're looking around the circle and everyone's just like you know like it's like we did it yeah we did it that type of thing and then you know you sued up you go to the afterm match function and then you're on the bus and then it's just bit more about us and

00:50:29 - 00:51:29

it's just you know someone will just start playing true blue and and everyone's just belting it out and um yeah like it was like yeah those moments I think again because like and again you sort of find yourself looking around you know while everyone's singing the lyrics and you just sort of catch someone's eye and you just little nod or you know like that sort of yeah like well done you know like we aren't this or whatever it is like those moments I think are are really special because of how

00:50:58 - 00:51:49

layed all the different circumstances sacrifices um things that we put into those like to get to that point to earn that moment that's how like that's why they meant so much do you think it it built up because you're you're having these very intense experiences back to back to back in a very compressed time frame and I can imagine that you know and you see it in the news all the time like football players are getting up to different Shenanigans and all the rest of it like do you think that it this

00:51:24 - 00:52:19

compression of energy and the camar battery and the lights and the fans and and just everything that's happening all at the same time like what does that do to someone's psychology and and how do you kind of take the edge off yeah well I mean I think it well the really important thing is they've got to be able to have the space to take the edge off right because you know when you look at a like a rugby team a professional team it's largely filled with 18 to 35 year olds right and you just you just

00:51:52 - 00:52:43

need a viice right so if you take everything away from them then they'll they'll find one right and so there there were times in my career where you know obviously you know you're getting drug tested and you don't want to go near that but you also um we were then started to get breath alized the next day after a game and at 8:00 in the morning we'd have to be zero oh my God right so like you know and you're you're not getting back to the team hotel by midnight and of course and then also

00:52:17 - 00:53:09

you're buzzing on adrenaline anyway so you're not going straight to sleep then so you know and you want to share in that experience that moment so you go out and have a few drinks but then all of a sudden we're getting breath Li the next day and I and that was sort of again it's different coaches come in with different sort of ideologies as to what's going to work and and whatever but if you think that you know from a preseason from January and you finish the season at the beginning of December that 18 to 35 year

00:52:42 - 00:53:30

olds are going to abstain from anything like it's just not going to happen right so which is why you see and if they do why you see all these off you know off field incidents in the offseason because when they do drink it goes nuts right like um you know I'm not I'm not sitting here giving excuses for that type of behavior but I just think there's better ways to manage it now Michael Checker was really good he's like I'm going to treat you like men if you act like men but the

00:53:07 - 00:54:01

moment you start acting like kids I'll treat you like kids and I'll bring you in all these types of um you know parameters and and and restrictions right so you know we could go out and we could have a drink and whatever if we turned up and we could do our job and we're in shape to do our job then it was it was fine but the moment we started to take the piss and and disrespect the opportunity that he was giving us but also the rope that he was giving us then he'd Pull the Rope right so then whereas

00:53:34 - 00:54:28

the the one I was just talking about with the breath lies is almost like I'm going to treat you like kids to begin with right kind of robbing you of some dignity yeah and and weirdly right if you look at I won't say the the the times but in my career during that period of time there were more offield incidents than any other time right because there's like again like people just push back and people did push back and then it went too far and then you know things would happen do you think

00:54:01 - 00:54:48

it's because the coaches are pushing you to bring absolutely everything you're going through the hurt lock Locker like you said like your your coaches are pushing you and it's like everyone's expecting so much from you and then you just want to blow some steam and then you get hit with a breathalizer and it's like come on guys like I mean I think it's also sometimes like you know like sometimes it can be difficult when I first start at 18 19 and 20 and whatever and you cuz it's not always on tour

00:54:25 - 00:55:11

right like there's times when you're playing home games and whatever and all your mates are out and they're uni parties or they're you know like they just they just don't again they don't have the the same sort of pressures and and also opportunities they're not getting paid as well as we were either so I understand that side of things but the Temptation is there you know like you m want you to be involved in what they're doing but also you want to be as well and and sometimes you know 18 19

00:54:47 - 00:55:40

year olds we we make the wrong decisions but that's also I guess a different conversation around you know should an 189 year old rugby player be a role model like sure maybe in some instances not not right like yeah I mean that's probably you know that's probably more on the smart 19-year-old yeah but like that's probably on the parents like to sit there and steer their their children around to who they should be looking at or what at least they should be looking at as a role model but um you know

00:55:13 - 00:56:16

there's going to be areas the eras and I think to you point around you know coach's intentions around you know getting the best out of it and Performing the best which is great I I think there's still opportunity to have balance and that's also to know that that you might be able to go 10 months of the year and just completely lock in but this guy's not going to be able to this guy's not you know like that's where I think now it's been a big shift since when I first started from coaching

00:55:46 - 00:56:43

and the way that they approach coaching is to get to know the person and you know when you talk when you hear the great coaches in any code anyone that's played underneath those great great coaches will say it's about the connection piece and how they take the time to get to know you and um you know and get the best out of you and and I think once a coach does that and goes to Great length to know their group then I think there'll probably be less of those sort of um you know restrictions and

00:56:14 - 00:57:24

more of an understanding and there'll be a greater respect you know amongst all of them what do you think was maybe one of the best moments or experiences you had with a coach where something was happening in the team and they were able to guide it uh look I I always go back to to I think Michael Checker was the best coach that I'd had and I say that with respect to all my other coaches because I think it's also it depends on when you get a coach right what do you mean by that like I was you know Eddie Jones my first

00:56:52 - 00:57:44

coach he was he was like you know he's a great coach right um I mean we don't have to go into what happened last last year at the World Cup but you know but I was also at a point in my career where I just listened I didn't contest I just did what I had to do and just went and did it like and then whereas cck I was more assured of who I was what I brought to the group what ability I had on on the field so there are also times where I could sit there and and contest him a little bit and not to be an antagonist

00:57:17 - 00:58:21

but to sit there and say well hang on like I'm going to stand up for myself here or stand up for the group here or whatever it might be um and and I think with that we just got a really um you know good working relationship and understanding of one another but I mean in terms of like an action that a coach took I I I just think I mean there just small things that Czech did that were unique and had a lot of thought behind them but I guess in the moment you didn't necessarily think too much of it so for

00:57:49 - 00:58:51

example when we're at the warar he was about to announce Michael Hooper as Captain right and we have you know a team meeting every day in the same room and you know largely the meetings are watching film talking about what's coming up travel days this and that and the other very similar right and then all of a sudden this particular day gets a bus and we go to the State library and we're in like the library with all the books and it's like this magnificent room you know lots of like you know history and

00:58:20 - 00:59:26

culture and all the rest of around it and he just hosted the team meeting there and he said oh okay and right it was just basic a change of location a change the scene change the scene shift everyone psyche and to announce that Michael H was going to be captain and it was because you change something like that and all of a sudden becomes more memorable right like who was the captain at the time uh it was Dave Dennis but he had just been injured so Hoops was coming in as a captain um and had check hosted that same meeting in the

00:58:53 - 00:59:48

room that we've done every other meeting all year I probably wouldn't have remembered Hoops being announced as Captain right like just made it memorable yeah made it memorable right like and I and that's the other thing as well I think that's probably you know to your point making it memorable that's something I try to live by now but being remarkable right and how is it to be remarkable and it's that when you leave a room or or a situation that people make remarks about that experience

00:59:21 - 01:00:19

they've just had for you so and that was something you know I picked from from Czech and and other you know great leaders that I've had through my career not just on the field but also off the field is is to um yeah to to try and be remarkable and it's not like a like an ego thing it's just like you know like just leave your mark on a situation right like if I'm going to go there and I'm going to share something with you or a connection or or a moment in time then leave it when leave it in a in a in a in

00:59:50 - 01:00:48

a place where someone goes you know that was like they enjoyed that or or or I'm also you know I leave remarking about the time that we're having now like you know something like that you know so that those little moments that Czech did about you know is remarkable or memorable or whatever it is I think is is something that's really sort of stuck with me about um you know trying to capture something that's a little bit different to what the norm is interesting and Hoops is uh pretty

01:00:19 - 01:01:19

renowned for being a bit of a killer on the field and uh we actually have him coming on next week which we're excited for so shout out to hoop yeah um was there something that Czech did in the library did he have a speech or did he land on something in particular yeah I mean I mean Czech was one of the great sort of motivators um you know he was always one that was able to really connect emotionally and it might be a little bit of film or it might be um you know like highlights laced with you know

01:00:49 - 01:01:56

quotes or whatever there was not that one in particular but there's one uh we playing Uruguay in the World Cup in 2015 and I will probably get the number wrong but like he's talking about like there was this um motivational video and it like and it started like it was a little bit Lac with um Dave gogin yeah shout out to goggin yeah yeah F yeah and there's like some of his quotes and and then it was like um how for us to already be here we've already beat like 14 million other sperm

01:01:22 - 01:02:19

or something you know you know like you know for us to even be here right now like we've already we've already [ __ ] won right like you know it was just like this it was just sort of this thing where like at the end of it like it was just before our captains run I was like [ __ ] let's play the game now like so there was just like he was just really good at kind of um creating themes uh and themes that would engage in everyone and and just emotionally uh connect with you to a point where you're like okay we're in

01:01:51 - 01:02:40

this like you know we're in it together we go out there and you know we can we can do and beat anyone what what do you say like and I think I love what you what you're sharing here about Czech and hoops and like the Dynamics in the team and the pump ups and the gogin videos and all the rest of it it sounds to me it's it's very much like you're trying to engineer morale or you're trying to stoke fires and you're trying to probably put out team problems like from a coach's perspective and the team's

01:02:15 - 01:03:08

perspective this dynamic between coach and team like how do you get the balance right because you know if you look at the state of the team now they're going through some challenges but you guys really had it locked in yeah for a season there yeah yeah yeah I mean I think um one it's understanding each other right uh and well actually before understanding each other it's respecting each other like I think respecting anything right in a team in a relationship in a friendship the moment

01:02:42 - 01:03:43

that's lost like respect and and trust is something that takes like it's ongoing it takes small little acts and like to to to gain someone's trust and respect small repeated acts but it can only take one one of those acts to lose it you right like if if I if I break that trust or I break someone's respect but just by one action all of a sudden I'm back to square one or perhaps even beyond that because it's harder to get back and um but it's it's just showing up each day doing you know like and

01:03:13 - 01:04:00

through action not just through word but through action that you've got each other's respect and you've got each other's trust and then from there I think um you know then you get byy in right like if if you sit there and respect your coach and you trust him that he's going to sit there and he's going to have you back and you know chck was also someone that would he goes don't worry about what I say into the press conferences it's all about what I say in this room like so we knew that

01:03:37 - 01:04:23

what we were getting here is different than what he's giving out there he's like I'm playing politics out here yeah trying to D those fires yeah or even sometimes stoker fire right like yeah what was something he might say to St you know like he was Czech was always pretty good in the Press like he was pretty giving right like he he'd just sort of say something or he just sort of he'd he'd be quite thought-provoking in some of the questions or some of the statements that he would make that maybe

01:04:00 - 01:04:54

you know headlines would be written about it or or you know like there's you know like it's check verse Hansen or it's Czech verse Med yeah a little bit like that whereas like it's all about what's actually happening in the four walls of of our changing room so but um yeah I mean the the the Harmony and disharmony is also a fluid thing you know like in any relationship or anything right like it it can change in any given moment so it's about sort of communicating first and foremost so

01:04:26 - 01:05:24

Czech was great and I mean I'm talking a lot about Czech here but there's also other coaches that were great at it but um it's just having that open line of communication always uh being honest with each other and it's not just from coach to player it's player to player like we contest each other we challenge each other but also I I think having that understanding that we're going to come from different angles at times but we just got to make sure that we land on the same page and

01:04:55 - 01:05:44

um and that's through you know like you communicating through the spoken word but also receiving the spoken word I think sometimes it's also the body language we perit like admitting as well as what we're seeing and and and receiving from someone else like cuz I could sit there and I could say I'd accept something but my body language might be saying something different right so everything's got to be in in sync and um and and it's just sort of being able to to move with what's

01:05:21 - 01:06:07

happening you know cuz there's going to be PES that are disgruntled cuz they're not getting selected right so it's about how do we manage that it's about also if I'm the guy that just got dropped how do I then just be able to go okay how do I now best serve the team because they they still got to get prepared for the game so I've still got a roll this week but it's not going to be on the Saturday you're yeah yeah so I mean I you know there's times where I got dropped and

01:05:44 - 01:06:35

I'd go and have my moment before I got out back in the team sort of environment because i' I can just I can be disappointed because you know I mean I've got every right right like I'm competitive and I want to be in that position but I also have to make sure that by the time I'm back in that team environment I'm doing what's best for the team so I mean there's just so many different elements and that's why it's really important for a coach to have a good leadership group that across all

01:06:09 - 01:07:03

the different Dynamics and smaller groups within the group um so that they can communicate back to the coach or also be sometimes voices for the coach obviously for themselves but to to be able to help with the harmony of of the group so I mean there's so many different layers to it and that's why you know sometimes it could be going so well for a long period of time but then drop off pretty quickly because it's you know so many different variables but you know when you hear you hear a coach has lost a

01:06:36 - 01:07:26

dressing room um what does that mean that's that's when I think that the the respect or the trust is broken okay like I I think that's probably when when a when a coach speaks and you're kind of like you know I'm not buying into that like I'm I'm not drinking your Kool-Aid anymore you know like that's when I think it's it's like the lockal room and the coach got divorced basically yeah so like you know I think that's when you know when that sort of statement is

01:07:01 - 01:07:56

thrown out there in the media or or whatever it might be that's pretty much what it is is that the playing group or a portion of the playing group no longer believing does Happ over time or is it like usually like one or two events I mean it can be different right like it can be over time because things aren't going well or the things that they're trying or that he wants you to implement and you are implementing but aren't actually working you start to lose trust and faith in that or it could be an act

01:07:29 - 01:08:31

and something where you go hang on I feel like I've been wronged here so um yeah it can be different now I think the the the components here are interesting because you're playing as an athlete you're training you're dealing with you know compressed time frames you're going through media like there's there's so many intersections but just take me back onto the field because I think what's interesting about you is you were essentially one of the the best Tri scorers in the in the sport and at what

01:08:00 - 01:09:07

point do you think it really clicked in and did you have a process a rhythm or a technique like how were you able to spot or sniff out opportunities to get a try what what were you doing that maybe others weren't um well I mean I don't know I I think what I became good at was picking up on cues like visual right because I was isol in a um positional sense right cuz I'm right out on the on the far Wing so I would sort of I would start getting for those listening it's like you're you're

01:08:34 - 01:09:21

right on the edge on the edge of the field so like the the scrum could be getting fed 45 M away from where I'm standing right the ball might be over there so you can't hear what's really happen I can't hear anything but then I would start to look and I'd look at the the eye contact between the N9 and the 10 okay right and I'd start seeing little hand gestures or then I'd look out to my posing wing and he might be just putting a hand out in front which might mean you know Crossfield kicks on

01:08:57 - 01:09:52

or you know so I'd start to pick up a lot of visual cues in the moment or I'd see someone's maybe you know grabbing an ankle or a little bit slower in getting into position or you know all these sort of like I just really became really good at sort of uh observing and and and seeing a lot of information that was not spoken and it might even be I I would even I'd do it with my nine I'll be like you know like just throw the eyes somewhere I'll be like you know I'm sort

01:09:25 - 01:10:16

of shaping to this way but I actually going to come back down this way or or or little things like that and you can kind of get those with your own teammates you get that over time and experience like you create your own language or signals yeah but um you know there'll be times where I'd be conscious that I'm giving someone space for a Crossfield kick but I do it purposely but then go back and feel that the moment that the 10's about to get the ball and shape to do that kick you know

01:09:49 - 01:10:41

so like um you only because I'd sort of sit there and i' I'd seen them try to be discreet about doing a Crossfield kick gesture so I just tighten up a little bit thinking that like for them to think that the space is still there I'm unaware of it but then soon as that Ball's fed or the ball's in flight to the number 10 who's going to execute the kick like I'm already starting to drop back reminds me of the The Art of War yeah you know when your enemy uh when your enemy thinks you're strong appear

01:10:16 - 01:11:09

weak yeah when you yeah a little bit like that yeah yeah yeah I mean and but then there was also like I guess from an attacking point of view like talking about Tri scoring it's um you know sometimes like it's a weird one because when you're in sometimes you just get in that like we spoke about the flow or in the zone before and uh you know like the the Roar of the crowd just goes quiet um like it's it's like a really sort of surreal feeling when something you see in the movies where yeah a little bit

01:10:42 - 01:11:33

like down yeah and it's just like and maybe just down you signal like as you're running through that sort of stuff but like um you know there are times where it's a bit harder than that but there you there certainly periods in my career where I felt like you know like almost like the path was sort of there and you could kind of see you could see the opportunity before it actually presented itself or again sometimes it's through tape before the game but like if I'm sort of seeing

01:11:08 - 01:11:59

someone's shoulders turn too much then I know that I'm I'm on back on the inside of the number 10 or whatever it might be so visual cues for me was big I never realized it was that subtle like it's well you know if you if I'm sort of coming as a as an inside supporter of the number 10 so the first pass off the rock and and the ball's coming out but the defense was a little bit too late in getting set so rather than him being in front of the number 10 coming forward with his shoulders Square he's having to

01:11:34 - 01:12:22

come from The Rock and his shoulders have turned more towards the sideline so if he had to then turn back in to get me he's having to turn too far back right it's a lot harder to turn your body around like that to turn the body around right whereas if he was already set Square on it's much easier just to go bang right so those little things if I knew that there was a Defender coming late then I knew there was an opportunity to say or GS or whoever my 10 was step back and then put put me

01:11:58 - 01:12:58

into that game but how how do you get to the point in the game where you have the ability to read that much information these subtle cues time slowing down crowd string out like it's a movie scene like how do you get to the point where you're that good um well again I think it's you know with that old sort of throwaway line you know Can't Buy experience like it's just time in this in the saddle like you know I'm sure there are you know with what anyone does well you you're not your best at it the first

01:12:28 - 01:13:17

time you do it I know you're saying that but there's a lot of people that have been in your position that haven't done what you did yeah um what do you think it is that gave you that edge yeah I don't know I mean I think probably being aware of it and the the benefit I was getting from it like I I mean it's weird for me to sort of sit here and talk about this visual stuff when like I was I'm like legally blind in my right eye from birth so like really vision for me was always

01:12:52 - 01:13:43

something I was having to be really focused on because so you don't like a full from my right right eye like I was born with a number of cataracts and it's just a like the information chain to my brain's been cut off right so I only work out of my left eye so when I first started playing as a young kid I'd be running down the or running down the field thinking I'm going to score and then just get whacked cuz Jesus so I just had to learn to use like to turn my head more to my right cuz I had no

01:13:17 - 01:14:21

peripheral on this side um so I think like my focus on eyesight was probably more so than most others because it had to be from an early age right and so I knew that turning my head more or being a bit more aware of my vision benefited for me benefited me from a an early age but then I was able to then sort of continue to build on that and and start getting cues and start getting information so you've built like a super eye doing the work of two eyes super eye but now my my super eye is fatiguing so I wear a

01:13:49 - 01:14:40

contact just now in my left eye cuz it's sort of just losing its sharpness a little bit but um did people know about this when you were no no no I mean I was always reluctant to to say anything um you just don't want to give a coach an opportunity if it's a 50/50 call go or let's go with a guy with you know like because it could be perceived as a weakness like maybe it did sort of have some impact on my death perception in high balls and stuff like that but I never tried to I never wanted to use it

01:14:15 - 01:15:07

as an excuse for me but also not an excuse for a coach to not pick me either so I just I kept it quiet but also I mean it's lucky because I mean I wouldn't have been able to sign a contract in France if you don't have two two hours at work uh so I lied through that obvious cuz I wouldn't ensure your contract did anyone know like obviously your parents knew you knew like did anyone else that you played with know about this uh yeah I mean I guess as I sort of went through um like close mates

01:14:40 - 01:15:33

of mine you and um you know teammates of mine but I had to be careful because I was changing teams a fair bit in my career cuz all of a sudden they they were my teammate but next week they're my opposition yeah and um do you feel like that ever mess with your psyche in any way or you were like no I have a to this I'm yeah yeah I mean even now like you know people I went only a month ago to get my eyes well my eye tested um just to make sure the the contact lens is sufficient but like they had a look

01:15:07 - 01:16:03

at the cataracts and they said look we could now because of the technology is so much further advanced than 40 years ago when you know when I was born we could remove the cataracts but the chains don't like the the information just won't be sent yeah so like the reason it sort of shut it off is because it couldn't comp compute a mutual image because this one was just so much worse than this one so it just went let's cut it off and so after 40 years they're like well we you'd be without cataract but it it

01:15:35 - 01:16:39

wouldn't matter cuz the information it mess with everything in your mind yeah that's crazy man I didn't know that wow I think that yeah to going back to where it was like I think that's kind of what where my I know I guess the the weight that I put on visual cues probably started yeah so you Hy Focus reading thees and just really able to like um find out where the ball was going where the opportunities were where the gaps were and just culating all of this at the moment yeah yeah yeah now I want to

01:16:07 - 01:17:15

highlight something that happened in your career which was um you know because you touched a lot of mindset and overcoming challenges and all the rest of it in in 2011 you had quite a substantial ankle injury um and you know taking an injury like that and then trying to build yourself back like what what kind of mental challenge was that for you uh yeah it definitely more mental than it was physical so in 2011 I think it was like April maybe playing for the warar against Queensland up in Sun Corp stadium and was just chasing a

01:16:41 - 01:17:42

ball bit of sort of like hip and shoulder off the ball my my toe on my right foot got caught in the in the in the turf and I went over on it and it basically spun around and so I was like looking at it like this but my toes were facing down my God and so that image your leg was backwards yeah yeah and that like really sort of rattled me um and this was April the World Cup that year was in September so I'm like straight away I'm thinking in the moment World Cup no good like um they came out

01:17:11 - 01:18:00

like the medical staff came out relocated the ankle like spun it back into position and then gave me the green whistle which is the morphine I'm like we could have got that the other way around give me the whistle Excuse me give me the whistle first wa into that moment so you're sitting and then it just yeah so they just go just like basically they just said bite down cuz I had my mouth guard in and they just went and just relocated it now the actual dislocation and relocation was pretty

01:17:36 - 01:18:35

clean as a from a medical point of view like but see your leg go from backwards to forwards and then click yeah terrify but like in terms of like the tendons and ligament damage and stuff okay I mean there was there was damage don't be wrong but it could have been a lot worse right so it kind of gave me it left the door open for a return for the World Cup um I had had a screw put put through sort of this part to keep your ti uh tib uh and FIB together okay like the cmosis effectively um keep those two together

01:18:06 - 01:19:15

uh I then made it back for the World Cup and what's the time between with between I think it was like end of April injury September was the World Cup what yeah that's so um only I played 20 minutes of Club football before I got like got to the World Cup yeah ad midly like I'm forever grateful to Robbie Deans for giving me that opportunity was probably probably selected me more on my history rather than where I was in that moment um and then I kind of I got over there and I wasn't in the starting team

01:18:40 - 01:19:53

in the first game against Ireland uh played a couple of games against USA and then Russia I was going to pick up a a ball for a Runway try and my hamstring on my left side went so effectively any of the the rehab was doing a lot of load was going through my left and that just basically fatigued and that that tore and then I was on a flight the very next day to go home and so went home um Got Away excuse me but then when I had the where I had the the the the screw the bone had um sort of regrew but

01:19:16 - 01:20:09

it was there was a Spur that came out right was like on the inside of the ankle here like a point or yeah just like a bit of a like almost like a little knob type thing right I could feel a click every time I stepped I was like Doc there's a click and man it's a scar tissue it's this and that I was like yeah but it feels like a click and effectively it was like a you know like a rope over over a rock just like that every time I stepped and then that ruptured and that wasn't good news for

01:19:42 - 01:20:49

me so that ruptured that basically means that you're a big risk of your you going flat footed um right you're your um like the arch the arch can collapse yeah and so we basically I was brought in I had my agent come in and doctors and they said you're most likely going to have to retire and that was it I was 26 27 maybe this is 2011 this is now 2012 like early 2012 so after that 2011 World Cup jez hearing that man's rough yeah and I like it rattled me like basically the rest of that meeting I didn't hear anything

01:20:16 - 01:21:18

didn't take anything in cuz I was like yeah I was shut it yeah um we're looking at maybe a tendon transplant from like something under my foot to go into that tip TI post tendon and then for whatever reason it was a week before I was locked in for that transplant and there's no history in no no evidence of it anywhere in the world of any athlete coming back to playing with with that type of injury no ballet no like football like we we searched everywhere yeah so so the doctor was like it's not possible like

01:20:47 - 01:21:46

you can do that replacement but from people that are basically just need to walk around each day and not do much nothing physically so but to get back to professional like sport they just said there's no one that's ever come back to do that so that was sort of the whole retirement kind of Prospect and then and then I was actually I was in a boot and I went up to see my my parents and my nieces and nephews for Father's Day and I took the boot off to play Nintendo Wii you know those ones where you basically

01:21:16 - 01:22:06

you run and whatever and I was like [ __ ] I'm getting it fixed next week anyway might as well just take the boot off and and I started like jumping on it and hopping on I was like hang on a minute this feels actually because it was exclusively in a boot for months and I went down to the saw our doctor the next week and I said do now you're not going to like hearing this but just hear me out and I took the boot off and I started hopping and she's like what she ran off to get a like the suron she ran

01:21:41 - 01:22:37

off to get a pediatrist and they like [ __ ] how's this even happening like medical journals what's happening and somehow it's just regenerated itself um like the two ends have kind of morphed onto something and regenerated right so we're like okay we can't explain it medically and they said but the option of the transplant is not a good one so this might last a week a month a year but it's still better than like the the option of transplant is still going to be there so let's just

01:22:09 - 01:23:04

write it out and I've not had any issues since so that you've not had anything whatsoever no I don't I never strapped it thereafter like when I came back didn't even strap it I was like o of the mentality if I need to strap an ankle for it to hold together then it's not ready to play but um but to your question around the mental side of it the mental side of it for me was really significant because I couldn't get out of my head someone snapping their ankle like I'd watch rugby league I'd watch

01:22:36 - 01:23:32

Rugby Union I was on a I remember I was on a on a bus in Cardiff on the way to play for the Wes against Wales and people you know like they're the fans like there's a sort of like a um a police motorade of like horseback and you kind of go through the the Main Street and everyone's like up like you know on the bus on the way into the stadium and I'm picturing people tripping on the G and breaking their ankle like so I knew okay this this is an issue for me like I'd watch that many

01:23:04 - 01:24:02

um contact Sports and I'd find myself like just looking away thinking it's about to happen like and I'm I'm training and I'm playing in that during all that time so I was like this is this is sort of affecting me so then I sort of started to see a therapist around and they basically like let me sort of sit in it and feel the the an anxiety feel the sort of the the uneasiness that it would bring towards me like i' they'd make me sort of think about it watch it visually going through it was like a

01:23:33 - 01:24:34

like hypnosis or anything like that not was more just like a guided type of therapy I don't know necessarily the type of it but it was sort of recommended to me and and it was about sitting in that uneasiness and acknowledging it and kind of I don't know just Mak finding a way to kind of be okay with it and because that was one of the the biggest hurdles that I've had to overcome in my career was the mental side of it overcoming that that um ankle injury how long did it take until you

01:24:03 - 01:25:11

started to you know mentally recover and be able to deal with the fact that you've had this injury but you want to still play it your absolute best oh probably the start of 2013 okay about a year you know yeah about a year and a half after the actual injury until you started to realize okay like nothing seems to be happening it's all good yeah I mean I missed most of 2012 with like the ruptured tendon and all that sort of stuff um but during that time was I was injured for most part so but I was not able to see things

01:24:37 - 01:25:39

on the TV and and you know like not think that they're going to like M I'd be watching a current affair or something yeah and I'd think oh like you know someone would trip or or whatever I'm like broken angle [ __ ] you know you know was just like the weirdest like most like random sort of stuff living a horror movie a year yeah that's terrifying um so I guess yeah after that like a year went by you started to get confident again and just build from there yeah yeah and then but then it was

01:25:08 - 01:26:04

sort of that's when I at the end of 2013 I I decided to go to France and play over there I I I think the the mental toll and the exhaustion of just like living in my ankle every day like that was what was also really hard like as soon as I'd wake up in the morning go to the bathroom the first step I'm thinking about my ankle cuz I want to see how it feels today as it was compared to yesterday like it was just it was just something I couldn't get away from and um and the the hope that it was getting

01:25:37 - 01:26:37

better and just the disappointment that it was not and and all this sort of stuff right so everything like it was it just consumed me for too long and I think it kind of then sort of took its toll on how much I was enjoying um you know the the footy here and I you know my upbringing and my adult life changes normal for me you know like my father was in the Army I went to six primary schools we moved up and down the East Coast like change was normal for me like staying at the one secondary school was

01:26:07 - 01:27:00

unfamiliar territory like I would cry to my parents in year nine going I want to leave the school not because it's a bad school but just because that's what I knew so then when I started my in like my um professional career I had four years at the Reds then I had three at the force in in wa four in New South wal the and then four until on like I just change for me was was normal did you find that like when things were too routine you would get an itch for change yeah a little bit Yeah like I'd just be

01:26:33 - 01:27:29

like okay I need to change up here whether it was environment whether it was challenge because the other thing is you know I played the same year same season like I mean it was great don't get me wrong but it was also like it was pretty much rinse and repeat each year I mean in terms of where I was where I was playing and and then going back to that point about Rugby Union taking you Global like the opportunity for me to came came up to go and play in France but also at an age where I still had

01:27:01 - 01:28:12

something to give rather than just go there and retire yeah so you played several seasons in France and and how did you feel like your experience in France uh was different from that playing in Australia um well firstly it was the being in a foreign country not speaking the language um um not hearing anything about footy soon as the moment I left footy like I would go to training and I'd work hard and I'd do all the work that I needed to do but excuse me the moment I left I didn't watch the

01:27:39 - 01:28:35

news I didn't hear any radio and if I did I didn't understand it I I couldn't read the newspaper so I I just didn't know I didn't care for anyone's opinion it wasn't getting forced down my throat through social media or you know again because it was all in like like whatever like it was just like I just went there and I was blissfully unaware of what was going on around me or what people thought interesting I just was there to just I I I cared about what happened and what was said in our

01:28:07 - 01:29:07

team room and amongst my peers and my coaches and that was it for me like I would just go home and enjoy myself I had my best mate M gido was there his wife bianka and then he had they had two boys over there as well so like that was sort of like I really needed them there I not had them there I think I would have really struggled but they were my they were my home so like a family yeah absolutely like i' I'd have dinner there five nights a week i' um you know I could talk to things to Bianca about

01:28:37 - 01:29:36

that I wouldn't talk to Matt about and you know like so just it was just like a it's just a really nice Dynamic that I had there on and off the field and um and then you I guess you look at the rugby wise you know ton um they just won the Europe Championship the year before I got there so they had some success um we had an amazing team like it was basically the who's who of world rugby um that Johnny Wilkinson was our captain and you know baky Boer and all these guys that I played against so many times

01:29:07 - 01:30:05

Brian Habana who he and I went head-to-head throughout our entire career and now all of a sudden he was left wing I was rightwing you know like just like it was kind of like a bit surreal walking into the gym for the first time and thinking [ __ ] these guys are my teammates right and then going back to that point about respect before he's like I want these guys to to feel like I deserve being out in the field alongside them and so like we trained hard and we earn each other's respect and you know we didn't even through my

01:29:35 - 01:30:28

four years there we didn't attempt to tackle or hit a breakdown at training for four years cu the coach would be he would say he's like well cuz we played the year we won the double our first year there we we played 42 games that year and he only play one game a week right so it's a long year and he's like there's enough G there's not enough opportunity to get injured in a game we not going to create more opportunity at training oh I see and so then he said though if our standards dropped off in a

01:30:02 - 01:30:51

game then we'll do it right but then you sit there and you're in a huddle and you got baky Boo and Jan Smith and all these guys that like I like I'm not missing a tackle because I don't want these guys think I'm a [ __ ] right like you know like I don't want these guys to sit there and look across to me in the Huddle and go [ __ ] he's playing you know like here's apples yeah yeah here's apples yeah he's a Turn Style with his tackling technique um but yeah so there

01:30:26 - 01:31:21

was like this mutual respect again that um you know we went out we won the double that year the next year we won the European Championship again and we just had this success that was like I mean it was nothing like I'd ever experienced then when we we'd come back to celebrate with our fans and it's 110,000 people in population total in Talon we came back to 130,000 people on the port what like like it's like I just got gooseb saying again like we came in on a boat into the port and you couldn't

01:30:54 - 01:31:54

see one Speck of pavement there was every every balcony every rooftop like for as long as the eye could see was just red and black people like people in red and black supported gear and just the chance and like we went up on a on a balcony with the mayor and like you know they saying speeches in French I just was cheering um but you know like we get on the back of a truck and make our way to the Town Square like all these things like you just see how much it meant to our supporters and our supporters are like Ton's a workingclass

01:31:23 - 01:32:14

city and you know not necessarily the um the wealthiest demographic and for them to spend their hard earn on a season ticket because every single game sold out they they like they live and they breathe our team and so when I'm doing my groceries and I've played a bad game you could be you know you could bet your bottom doll that people are going to tell you how badly you played now I could only sense what they were saying yeah because of the tone and the facial Gest the visuals um but at the same time

01:31:50 - 01:32:40

if you played well that'd also be you know really nice and and and tell you that as well so they just lived every moment with you so it's more intensified in Europe because I I watched the David Beckham documentary and if he wasn't doing well like you know like the the stuff they would do to him man was out of control I mean it was it was just something I'd never really experienced like sure you get people here that they get on Twitter and spray you but like you know they just seem

01:32:14 - 01:33:12

to they just seem to live it a lot more over there um I mean it was a one team Town effectively a one sport town as well so like it was all about RCT it's it's giving me goosebumps cuz I could only imagine but it sounds to me like you you uh died and went to football Heaven yeah pretty much I mean M like I mean also just the opportunity like my I got an apartment there and was I had my own private beach on the Mediterranean like you know like everything about it like and I was in provance right like Ros I mean how

01:32:43 - 01:33:40

good's that um like it was it was so like everything about it like and our team was basically the suppored team from Monaco to marsill did you get a sports car um yeah yeah I mean the sponsors when I was there were Volkswagen but we'd also when we'd go visit santra or Monaco they just throw us the keys of a some sort of souped up sports car which yeah when I was in those places I probably shouldn't have been driving or I wasn't driving anyway if you were going to drive what would

01:33:11 - 01:34:02

you have uh been driving um oh oh yeah no I mean there were times where I actually did get behind the wheel and stuff I mean they'd give you sort of Ferraris I mean a couple of our boys got Bentley's when they were over there like you know like um I mean yeah for like you'd go around the track and well what was the track of the Monaco Grand Prix with guys like a lot of professional drivers in Monaco right so they say I'll just jump in this and then they'd take you around and take you

01:33:38 - 01:34:28

for a bit of a spin but then they'd throw you the key and I'm like I mean I wouldn't even know what like Lamborghini or Ferrari or Aston Martin who knows but like it was just like I just said yes to everything when I was there like any experience someone would be like Drew let's go up here and I'll be like let's do it like I just said yes because I it was never going to be my forever yeah so like whe it was santra P or khah film festival or the Monte Carlo Tennis classic in Monaco or the Formula 1 grand

01:34:03 - 01:35:12

prix I just said yes to everything yeah and then from that have you know forged some great relationships with with people that are from those areas that's intense man I can't even imagine um so what do what do you think that it was that I guess this career um taught you about yourself um and and just to add to that like how how did you prepare for life after sport yeah I don't know if I'm necessarily prepared um I was sitting in a team meeting in ton with three months left to go of that season in active negotiations

01:34:37 - 01:35:29

with that club ton and a couple of Japanese clubs about what I was going to do next and I just got struck with this overwhelming feeling of I'd rather be anywhere than where I am right now and I like it was really quite profound I was like Wow and so I walked out of that team meeting and I said to GS I said mate I'm done he goes no no no we've got gym he thought I was saying done for the day and I was like no I'm done with footy and he's like what wow I was 33 at the time and he goes what and so I just went

01:35:03 - 01:35:51

on Twitter and I said thanks for the game rugby for everything's given me but my time's done send and just like I didn't want to I didn't want to call my parents I didn't want to call my agent I didn't want to call like my loved ones and close friends CU I didn't want to give them the opportunity to talk me out of a feeling that was so profound and so like impactful to me because Sur I could have I could have gone to Japan for a couple years and yeah and only been happy when I went to the ATM and saw my

01:35:27 - 01:36:21

receipt like but I just think in life the your lasting memories your most recent and I didn't want my recent memories of rugby to be tarnished because I was just doing it for a paycheck CU I'd made some early decisions in my career about like literally based on finances and it turned out to blow up in my face so I was like I'm not going to do that again so when I found when I had that that feeling I was like I've just got to back it and so I got to finish the last three months like my the the owner and the

01:35:55 - 01:36:44

coach would talk like called me straight away once they you know once it kind of went on Twitter and they're like d what the [ __ ] like I was like yeah look we don't have to keep talking about contracts for next year like let's just play out this one and know we we lost the final that year my last game was losing a final at St to France in Paris mom and dad were over there for it like it was great I mean to be a to sort of tick off this is my last this my last that my last this and then you know

01:36:18 - 01:37:21

actually play out your last like but then I got I got back and I was like what am I going to do I wasn't one of those guys that studied when I was playing cuz I'm the type that when I first started I was doing a degree and I thought I could do both partic like do both okay but none of them particularly well I just needed to focus on one of them and that so that became rugby um I was lucky enough to pick up a bit of sort of play-by-play stuff in commentary for the first year of my retirement and then got a contract

01:36:49 - 01:38:02

with Fox Sports for two or 3 years um and then that finished but then I jumped across to channel 9 and Stan but then I I guess one of the things I'm most proud of I suppose is my self-awareness so I know that and we hear it from so many other athletes that have retired from different sports that it's difficult it's finding purpose it's finding passion uh all these sort of things um and you know people really struggle with it like and and it's I've struggled with with it um but I guess I

01:37:26 - 01:38:29

first and foremost I I thought okay mentally I'm going to hit some potholes in this journey and rather than get in a pothole find out and equip myself the tools to get out of it let's be pre like pre proactive and preempt those potholes and have the tools to get around it before I even fall into it so I started to I started to see a therapist um you know regularly and at first it didn't sit well with me like I think you know there the stigma around it and whatever but then I sort of got over that by

01:37:58 - 01:38:58

thinking like you know we've got a we've got a a coach or a teacher in everything in life except for life itself right like I'm going to teach you how to crawl walk ABC one 23 how to pass how to whatever right everything but not how to live right like life decisions things around relationships things around you know why you are who you are why you react to certain situations why like you you go to your your parents for that or your nearest and dearest and that that that advice is often biased now it's not

01:38:29 - 01:39:18

intentionally biased but it's just biased right so I'm not necessarily hearing Drew you're being a dick like oh you're you're doing the wrong thing here like you're just like no love like you know you're doing great like you know so I sort of started to see my therapist as a life coach and like just getting the the harsh advice that I needed to get um what was what was the harshest piece of advice you feel like you needed that well I mean I think you know you know what it was probably more about was more

01:38:53 - 01:39:53

about about education and learning about who I am like why do I respond to situations like this well it's because of something that happened when I was younger or it's because I was embarrassed at a time when I was at school and it had such an impact on me that now whenever I get in that situation I literally go to that response um but it's like understanding okay where where's the call where where did that start why did it start and then how do I arm myself with an understanding of knowing what those

01:39:22 - 01:40:25

triggers are or when it happens arm myself with tools to help deal with that situation so um so that was sort of something that I think I've become really comfortable with now is like just going and seeing a therapist and just being honest because I also think there's no point going to a therapist if you're going to be 80% honest right cuz you're not going to get you're only going to get 80% of the the solution um so now I'm just like ws and all just like go and chat it out um

01:39:55 - 01:41:04

yeah and then I think the other thing is being self-aware of about often we'll try and fill voids right like when I was about a year and a half out of reti or in into my retirement I was like what am I missing like I'm missing something right and it was like it was adrenaline it was a spike in Adrenaline um you know like running out every well 40 odd weeks a year every weekend to like a raw anywhere from 10 to 100,000 people right 80,000 people it just becomes your it weirdly subconsciously you become addicted to

01:40:29 - 01:41:31

that and so that's why I understand when athletes former athletes turn to unsavory ways to feel that high right whether it's drugs or sex or alcohol or gambling all these sort of things because it's and perhaps it's just being unaware of that void you're trying to fill but you're doing it in detrimental ways so I felt like I was sort of starting to maybe go down that path the other thing I thought initially that I was missing was the application of skill like the repetition of skill the the the

01:41:00 - 01:41:58

the pursuit of perfection of a skill and so through weirdly through a discussion with a friend of mine KL G Marco he just he was learning how to fly a helicopter and I have no ambition I had no ambition to be a private helicopter pilot like a chared pilot but I was I needed the process yeah so I went and tried it and I got the adrenaline cuz I'm scared of heights and you're and this like the Robinson 22 it's so tiny and you're up and and it's so hot out the worst possible thing to do when you have a few

01:41:29 - 01:42:26

heights yeah and they take the door off because it's so hot out of bank time and you got just an over the strap sort of seat belt yeah um and but the repetition of repetition of skill for that cuz you've got two pedals here which is sort of the attitude of the the aircraft you got a um like a handbrake but also a throttle on the handbrake plus the control right so in terms of skill like there's a lot going on like I would do an hourly lesson and then almost have to nap in the car before I drove home cuz

01:41:57 - 01:42:59

mentally I was just exhausted but so I I got I think 25 or 30 hours up in my book before we had bush fires that year and and then Co hit and all the rest of it but for that period of time it served its purpose for me which was just to to fill a void that I could have potentially filled with unsavory behaviors um and then so that was fine and then obviously Co happened and you know we're all sort of locked up and it was all very weird time but then I then started uh commentary again which was

01:42:29 - 01:43:20

largely Friday Saturday work the odd Sunday but Monday to Friday I was I was you know I had all the time in the world now that was good for a period of time but it also then became detrimental I wasn't being productive I wasn't using my brain um I you know if I had five things to do on a Monday I'd get them done by Friday you know like it was it was it started to become a thing for me so then I thought okay now what I'm missing I'm missing routine and structure you know going back to that

01:42:54 - 01:43:52

military upbringing routine instructure school routine instructure rugby routine instructure and the other thing that I was missing was the pursuit of an outcome right whether it was a personal outcome a team Collective outcome whether it was a weekly outcome or a yearly outcome season or whatever um so I started to explore through different people in my network about what I could do next um like what profession I could actually do Monday to Friday and and it was just a really daunting question for

01:43:24 - 01:44:19

me CU people like what are you passionate about I'm like well what I've just finished like I'd get embarrassed because I didn't know and I didn't know how to answer the question so I'd avoid it or i' I'd feel um inadequate or that I didn't offer anything or you know like because I just didn't know what I didn't know what I was passionate about and so then I basically through those discussions in my network I started to think I started to think of all the options out there

01:43:51 - 01:44:43

and rather than picking a couple and trying that I was it was almost a process of elimination like I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that and then kind of narrowed it down and then um you know much to my own surprise like uh real estate kept coming up right really yeah and then commercial real estate even more so because it's Monday to Friday residentially doing a lot of open homes in the weekends so that wasn't conducive of my commentary stuff that I was doing as well so you

01:44:18 - 01:45:18

could like balance both yeah I could balance both yeah and then I through a few introductions got a a job um through a guy Yosh Mendes um who's at berus rosson they were really great it was allowed me to really I got my license um started to really get to know you know the ins and outs of of that world right like I I kind of think that you know to really simplify things and not to dump it down to all the other people in real estate out there but there's basically three type three main things right it's the knowledge and

01:44:48 - 01:45:42

understanding of the real estate world it's a network and communication skills now I felt like I had two of those but the knowledge thing is probably the easier one to get out of the those those three right because networks take a long period of time to to build uh and also the the ability to be able to communicate as well yeah because I understand in real estate like from the people I've talked to that are you know doing really well in that space they're like it takes two or three years to

01:45:14 - 01:46:21

build up enough network uh to be able to pay yourself handsomely to enjoy it yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah and so I yeah I was given an opportunity um I've since um left buris wson and I've joined savil in the pubs team and again like I you know my network probably speaks more to pubs um at you know perhaps you know the 20 years of research I've done in pubs is now paying off it's got perks yeah exactly get to have meetings in a pub yeah but I I like the pursuit of outcomes again you know like this is now

01:45:48 - 01:46:36

this is these are my like you know there's a process about it you know like you get the listing and then there's a proc process and then there's the communication of it again all these little things that are there's synergies to what I used to do to what I'm doing now like you know the communication between vendor and myself or potential buyers or um you know the the process of getting the IMs and the edms and the looking at the subtle signals all that sort of stuff right like or taking

01:46:12 - 01:47:06

through people through inspections and then also getting those visual reads on whether I feel like you know they're genuine genuinely interested or not like so all these little things and then of course then you you know you want to get to the point where you you know you execute the sales so um yeah so I I think um my self-awareness is something that I'm look it's it's I'm not saying I'm perfect at it but I'm I'm proud of that I've I've got the the means to be able

01:46:38 - 01:47:37

to look at myself and go Drew your behaviors are starting to sway from what I would like why is it find why what you're missing and what you're trying to fill with these things and and then have the ability to then go and find something that's a bit more productive and and from our conversation before we sat down you know you seem extremely happy and it seems like you're really enjoying the process and what you're doing and I understand that you also have a podcast yeah uh and um yeah tell

01:47:08 - 01:47:59

us a little a little bit about that yeah so that's um you know I do that uh with a couple of my best mates so uh it's called kickoffs and kick on it's like it's a rug podcast yeah yeah kick on you just want to for the audience share what that really means yeah well it's it's sort of like you know the kickoff is obviously the kick off of the game and then the kick on is what happens after the game and and long into the night and yeah I mean look it's myself it's Mido and Adam Ashley Cooper and our

01:47:33 - 01:48:32

host is is James Watford who's the professor who's you know been doing a lot of stuff in rugby league um over the last sort of decade or more but uh he's our host and then we've got like a bunch of guys that sort of help us behind the scenes much like you do but ours a much smaller scale but for for me I think initially when we started it it was an opportunity to have scheduled time with my best mates every week like every Monday afternoon we catch up we have some beers we talk about something we love but we

01:48:02 - 01:48:55

share time together like when the other two boys are married with kids uh you know sometimes getting all together at the same time is is difficult um well I've got two kids and I yeah I get it yeah right exactly right so to have this signed off by everyone for every Monday like for the last we've done 36 episodes this year so there's a lot of logistics a lot of talking to the wife yeah prepping the weekend and Nanny you know yeah all of that right so yeah to now have it all signed off by everyone um

01:48:29 - 01:49:19

you know is fantastic and then secretly we just want to hang out yeah pretty much we're just hanging out there a couple cameras and in a microphone but um but I know it's it's a good opportunity for us to stay connected to the game that we love um it's a great opportunity for us to stay connected with each other um and it's also giving us some of those moments that I was talking to you about before the things that you can't replicate in a in a corporate world where you know we're

01:48:54 - 01:49:53

about to go on tour to um England Island Scotland Wales together yeah we'll be in like you know we'll be in airbnbs or hotel rooms together we'll be on planes all those little sort of small moments that um that we used to have as teammates for so many years that we make sure you belt out true blue and oh absolutely yeah if the live shows go well then we'll sing it if if they tank then we won't but um okay so I've heard about these live shows and and um it sounds like a concoction of like jackass meets Kil

01:49:24 - 01:50:18

Tony meets podcast which is like I'm hearing stories about you roundhouse kicking beers off people's heads well yeah that that happened in our last one here in East um so we've I mean my a sponsor of our show right and we do like a little matchfit kind of um segment and on one of our podcasts I just sort of said how good they are and they and one of the questions is always what would what would you um where would you wear them and I'd said oh probably do kickboxing and then and then I did a

01:49:51 - 01:50:44

roundhouse kick out of like off um Adam's hand and so when we went into this live show at East Rugby Club about a month ago or so one of the audience members when went became Question Time said oh can you kick a a beer off someone's head and now I had my best mate from school chicken he was down wait what was your thought process were you immediately like yes I can yeah absolutely yeah yeah I mean I was what kind of question is that I was probably six seven BS deep at this point so I was

01:50:17 - 01:51:15

like yeah i' I've got this um and so then I got my mate out of the crowd cuz I'm like if I can knock anyone out it's him he'll be fine like we've got that strong enough bond for us to get through this um and so he put the beer up on his head and and I ran ranous it off off his head um but yeah I me have footage of this yes I do yeah consider you guys yeah um but I mean the live shows is just an opportunity for us to firstly meet the people that are listening and and watching and subscribing and and

01:50:47 - 01:51:38

buying our merch and that sort of stuff cuz I think you know like it's we're only able to do that because people are doing that right so for us to be able to sort of sit there and mingle and rub shoulders but also kind of have an environment where everyone feels like it's just us cuz there's no cameras in those shows there it's not for anyone else's um you know digestion like that's just the people in the room in that moment that's what you get so it's kind of like a like a a unique kind of

01:51:12 - 01:52:06

experience for us but also for the people that come along because they're getting something that you know the however many thousand consume the weekly stuff aren't getting so what city is you are you guys going to so we're doing uh we're doing London which is actually just sold out so we're going to do a second show in London congratulations thank you and then we're doing Edinburgh Cardiff Dublin and then we're going to do some stuff in oh we're doing the Dubai sevens um yeah which would be

01:51:39 - 01:52:35

really cool so that's on the way home Dubai sevens um and then there's one more maybe around south of France maybe Monaco um that um yeah is about to be confirmed man I want to come well we'll put the links in chat for anyone who wants to check that out yeah that'd be great yeah really cool no it's good fun hell yeah man kicking beers off people's heads and touring the world sounds like a lot of fun yeah yeah so one more question around like I guess the the wallabies in the game I'd really like to

01:52:07 - 01:52:59

understand like um and this is a bit of a curly one because I I understand that you guys were playing in the Golden Era and the Wes have had some ups and downs and different turbulent times what do you think is the current state of the problems in in the Rugby Union right now as you see it oh mate like this how long have we got um and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way I just think it's layered I just don't think there's a silver bullet for Phil War and the and the and the administration to be able to

01:52:33 - 01:53:41

just go if we fix this one thing everything else is going to be fine right I think there's um there's probably a bit of a disconnect uh in like our our our our fan base and the Super Rugby level but also then rugby Australia I think you know there's the biggest issue is probably financially right where we are financially and and how we've got to this position financially you know that we've we we've gone to five Super Rugby teams and then Western Force got kicked out they've since come in and now Rebels

01:53:07 - 01:54:01

have been kicked out financially we're just not able to have a viable product at a state level which then impacts the rugby St the bigger sort of administrator that have to Barrel them out or make harsh decisions because no one wants to see teams no longer exist yeah if you look at the NRL they're doing great financially yeah and and I think look same with AFL as well and and this is again from the outside because I'm no I have no idea in terms of uh financial situation and diversification

01:53:34 - 01:54:27

that type of thing but it seems like we're too reliant on sponsorship merchandise ticketing and broadcast deal like those four Avenues are our main streams of income right whereas I mean you look at rugby league and they've got property portfolios they've got just like they've got other ways where they've got income coming in Surplus they're they're building War chest for a rainy day that kind of thing and but then you look at it as well like rugby league they've got all their leagues

01:54:01 - 01:54:59

clubs and the gaming machines and people will have like um you know their their issues with that or not but what it is doing like it's feeding the pathways right like you and we we're we're losing the battle at 13 kids when they're 13 right like I've done some stuff at some of the private schools here and you know there's seven players in a starting back back line and they had eight players signed with the rugby league teams so after they finished school so they're playing rugby union at say a Scots or

01:54:29 - 01:55:26

Kings or whever um playing rugby union but they're being placed there by rugby league teams right so the narrative is always oh Rugby Union lose another one to rugby league whereas really we were only kind of borrowing them for their their schooling because they're always going to League thereafter right we we had five years to maybe try and sway them but of course like you know when when a kid's leaving school at 17 18 years old with 50 to 100K guaranteed Rugby's not in a position to be able to

01:54:57 - 01:55:57

do that right yeah or or rugby is also not in a position to be able to pay for their schooling for x amount of years so we're kind of losing the battle early on and it's a financial one um but then I guess you know because then also you look at further up the tree you go to wbees and players leaving to go overseas and play and people see that someone going overseas means they don't have passion to play for the gold jersey or the or the gold jersey is losing it's it's its appeal and I'm like well it's

01:55:29 - 01:56:35

it's not that it's just the games changed a lot from 25 30 years ago when it was amateur like it's now it's we the thing I think that rugby always talks about how we're a global game but we're still not yet embracing the global aspect of it um what would you like to see happen I mean I think the current situation where we're right now it's difficult right this is I I I think we we're not in a position to sit there and deny not picking players from overseas like at

01:56:02 - 01:56:47

the moment we do it if they've reached a certain amount of caps or they've done enough for the game here in Australia but I just don't I think with the game with where we're at I just don't know if we're in a position to keep naively saying no we're going to do it from domestic players only but at the same time I know that there's there's a caveat to that because the players that play overseas sometimes are controlled by their Club and they won't be released

01:56:24 - 01:57:17

so it may not be that conducive of only having them come in sporadically rather than building um you know something sort of you know those bonds and connections that we're talking about earlier so that's the thing about all the issues in rugby at the moment is that they're all just so layer um I think the one Silver Bullet would be money um but then what we do with that because that's I think being the issue we had you know 2003 we had a war war chest of cash after the World Cup

01:56:50 - 01:57:44

when we hosted it here in in Australia um what we did with that money was try to inspire future generations of Wes now our guys across the ditch they were putting all their money into developing future or blacks right and that's the difference like every 18 19 year old that played rugby in Australia they wanted to play for the W's it just weren't quite good enough yeah whereas go across the New Zealand's approach they wanted to play but they also were good enough because their Pathways and

01:57:17 - 01:58:16

their their development programs um you know ready them ready their players so that when they work of age to go and be looked out for Super Rugby or or the All Blacks they were ready um it's what we do with the money would you ever uh consider you know jumping back in the ring and and playing some kind of role uh you mean like Administration Administration or coaching or or anything like that uh I wouldn't do coaching I just think that there's like one I don't know if I'd be

01:57:46 - 01:58:53

be suited to it um maybe you could develop their property yeah exactly yeah maybe yeah um yeah owning pubs we're not visiting them um um coaching's tough right there's no long-term coaches you got to move a lot like I just I'm I'm 40 single I want to get a family at some point and if I start coaching it's two years here and then you don't go well you're in some other part of the world and don't go well there you're moving it's just a lot it's a lot of you exactly yeah all of

01:58:19 - 01:59:20

that but um so Administration wise I would never say never but I'm nowhere near equipped to doing it right now um I'd needed to live in the corporate world and understand it and fail and then find a way to then Rectify that and succeed thereafter like numerous times before because I think the other thing as well is if I was ever get involved in rugby Australia or the Wes I'd have more pressure on myself to succeed because I'm emotionally attached and and biased towards them so I'd want to make sure

01:58:50 - 02:00:10

that if I were to ever consider something like that then I'm almost overprepared for the role yeah no well said man um couple more questions sure um what's a quote or a martra that you've carried with you on this journey that you wished everyone listening to this uh would immediately Implement um I mean a manra you know I I think in 2015 World Cup came back from France um and it was it was all about the theming around it was all about our why you know like why why do you do it what motivates you who motivates you but

01:59:31 - 02:00:36

why do you make the sacrifices why do you put in the effort why like that type of thing you're like what is your why and um finally enough I actually I read mine today I was I'm kind of moving some stuff in a spare room and I saw my diary from the World Cup in 2015 and on the back page it's got like we all had to write down what our why was and it was you know what is you why um you know from 13 when I first started playing rugby this is everything I want to achieve um I need to be questioned about the school

02:00:03 - 02:01:04

I went to my size my defense um you know and then getting injured and then coming back and then people thinking I need to be getting questioned again why and you know is he going to be able to do this and then going to France and then getting brought back again only to be questioned by everyone all in sunry to and then at the end I was like why not like [ __ ] that like and [ __ ] them for questioning me like I I have got this in belief in myself my family and my close ones also have that and it it was you

02:00:34 - 02:02:01

know in that moment it was about making that 13-year-old so like version of myself proud in what I've achieved but how I've achieved it I was so my why was why not like [ __ ] that like f [ __ ] that and [ __ ] them I love that man how do you want to be remembered both as a professional Sportsman and as a person um oh man uh I I think as as a as a sports person um someone that um not as apples no not as apples no not as apples but someone who just who who every time he went out there played as

02:01:18 - 02:02:34

hard as he could but enjoyed himself whilst doing it didn't take myself too seriously but took the game seriously um and i' would like to be remembered by those who I played with as someone that they enjoyed playing with um and as a person uh I'd like to be known as someone who is loyal um and that they could rely on and that could also bring a bit of laughter and of Joy beautiful man I can that and I think you know you you come across as someone who really loves and cares about what

02:01:56 - 02:02:45

they do you have a lot of self-awareness around you know what what needs to be the next chapter and how to lean into it and and how to find fun in the chaos yeah I mean that's what it's about right like and that's you know even going back to that sort of stuff we're talking about in France about like working to live living to work um you know it's it's about making sure you take the moments to just enjoy it cuz you know as we all know and we hear so often but often we disregard it cuz we don't think

02:02:21 - 02:03:35

it's going to happen to us you just don't know how long it's going to be around for so [ __ ] just enjoy the now [ __ ] just enjoy the now I love that and uh last question is what's a door that you're trying to kick in now that's going to enable you to go to the next level um you know one that I'm probably really struggling with and and one that I'm trying to kick in is is having the the discipline and the motivation to have discipline and motivation if that makes sense so my relationship with

02:02:58 - 02:04:12

training is not great my applic like I I need structure I need routine and that's not just in training like physical training but also in some of the work that I'm doing because all my structure was always provided for me whereas now I'm the master of my own structure in my routine whereas so my roles flipped like I still need to be the one that does those things and turns up and goes to the gym and and have structure in the way that I do my admin and and and the way that I uh get through my work at work but I'm setting

02:03:35 - 02:04:42

the structure now um and if I don't do it then no one's going to do it right so it's the one thing I'm struggling with is is finding the motivation to be disciplined at that and and when it's uncomfortable and when I feel like doing something completely different or just taking the easy route is just staying on track to say no be disciplined enough to lock in and and set these sort of um these structures and then I'll I can commit to them because like I said all those things were always set for me what to

02:04:09 - 02:05:00

eat what to wear where to be how to get there you know to turn like it was all was all done for me I didn't have to think I didn't have to do it I just had to implement it whereas now I'm I'm the one having to set my structure now you have to set the rules and do the activity and keep myself accountable for it right and because the easiest thing is just to take a shortcut and then reason with yourself oh it's fine I'll do it tomorrow or I'll do it the next time but being disciplined on making

02:04:35 - 02:05:29

sure that I actually do it and commit to it well I I can relate I think you know for me I always you know look at building a business or you know in your case like pursuing a career as an athlete and now you're going into the world of business I always find that having someone um external to yourself metaphorically speaking come and help you tend to your garden so like sometimes you know if you're a gardner or a landscaper the last thing you want to do is landscape your own garden right

02:05:02 - 02:05:54

so it's like sometimes getting someone else in to go hey what do you think of this Garden back here and in your case talking to a psychologist can certainly help in my case I recently reached out to uh you know this gentleman his name is Josh Sparks and just being a phenomenal coach for me and I think in my mind I'm like man the business is doing really well um I'm pretty cool here and then he comes in he's like no I think you could really make that happen yeah right like no I don't think that's

02:05:28 - 02:06:17

possible he's like I think it is so just sometimes for me having someone else kind of come in and just challenge your perspective and then help you move your flag further down the road yeah I found it be quite helpful but like I get it man like there there's times where it's just like damn dude like I got to get out of bed I got to do all of this stuff and make sure that not only am I setting the goals but I'm being accountable to them yeah it's a tough slug yeah it can be I mean but that's that's also the

02:05:53 - 02:06:50

part of it right like [ __ ] if it was easy everyone would be doing it yeah like yeah yeah we just I mean it's also it's the challenge in it which I enjoy well for me man and for the team here like uh you know room around the the office is your [ __ ] weapon on the field and people really loved watching you and and following your professional career and um the jackass podcast tour sounds like a ton of fun man and um yeah and also you know working in commercial real estate you know sinking tins and

02:06:21 - 02:07:02

and selling sounds pretty fun too so yeah that's good yeah I mean that's the other thing though is got to make sure you have the balance there's a fair bit of that going on so I got to make sure I do try and be dis in that so well it sounds like you're absolutely crushing man no thank youate I really appreciate you uh getting me on here and also taking the time to have a chat it's been good yeah this is heaps of fun we love to get you back yeah thank you mate cheers yo my name is Dane Walker and I

02:06:41 - 02:07:41

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