Turning Setbacks into Comebacks: An Athlete's Path to Resilience | Emily Chancellor

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I'm debooting for my country and then I'm playing a game 2 weeks later for my country again in New Zealand no one had any time to like criticize me or analyze me so in a way I didn't get a chance to put pressure on myself after playing well in game one I reflect on that debut and just go we play a game of Rugby Union where there were rules and I didn't follow any of them scrum started to turn I just go I'll follow the scrum and the ball all the way to the other side of the field if they had swung back there

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would have been space where I was meant to be because no one else holds your space I just follow the ball lucky enough to get off the line and get an intercept if we don't practice going for intercepts like why I thought this is what I should do no idea and the coach afterwards was like if you didn't get that intercept we were in so much trouble and I was like oh well lucky I did if you reflect on like how much we overthink things and how much we put pressure on ourselves the way I played I didn't have

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any pressure on myself on today's episode of the agency podcast joining us is Emily Chancellor she currently plays for the New South Wales warar as well as nationally for the Australian Woos in the women's team recently she's dealt with the injury of having an ACL tear and what it takes to bounce back mentally when it comes to training mindset and overcoming adversity to get back on the field playing the sport that she loves I really enjoyed this and I hope you guys take away some of the lessons that I

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personally took from this episode let's dive in Emily welcome to the Pod excited to have you here with us today thanks so much Dan I am honored to be a part of it we're pumped man and you've got a lot going on in your world right now and I understand that you've unfortunately broken your foot uh in the past and more recently torn your ACL yes yeah I was going to say broke my foot wow we're taking deep dive back into 2017 but no ACL is unfortunately the injury I'm I want to say dealing with

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but you know moving through the process of of recovering from at the moment it's a tough one because I I understand cam was explaining this to me before you have to essentially stretch the the muscle and like reattach it and it's quite probably one of the most challenging injuries you could get in sport it is one of the probably I don't know if it's the the like it's not the worst injury you could get in sport but it's one of the longest time frames to return from so it's then a long like anytime you're out

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of sport sucks and then to say that this injury is basically a 9 to 12 month injury makes it even worse because there's nothing you can really do to speed up the process like a lot of people are trying to in the professional world but the rerupture rate is so high if you come back early so it's just not really worth it at the moment so you have to take it easy and easy sure oh not take it easy but you have to let me reframe that question like you have to nurse it effectively you can't um you

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can't rest on it you have to be very diligent and try to you know incrementally improve it over time but it is definitely an injury that they say you have to go slow at the start and for most athletes or most people it's not easy to go slow right after you've done something that feels like it's traumatic and you shouldn't you know you want to be in control again so what do you want to do you want to overdo something so in that first sort of 6 to 12 weeks you're like I want I'm

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going to be back I'm going to be back what can I do extra and they're like just sit just try and get a little bit of Bend like it's just that slow what are you talking about Ben I want to win the championship exactly I want to be back on that Bloody field right now with my team yeah and with that comes I guess the the challenge of perseverance adversity and and what have you um how has this I guess reshaped your mindset and your approach to your professional career um and you know how

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do you summon mental fortitude to actually deal with it it's a hard one cuz I don't think you can ever answer it until you're in it like everyone knows injuries suck I always think injuries no matter big or small are like a good opportunity to reflect on where you are where you're going and really make sure that you're doing it because you want to do it cuz sometimes you can well I haven't had this experience yet but I believe sometimes if you're not doing something for long enough you kind of

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get that like why am I trying to come back for it but I think I always try to use an injury as like the refuel of fire of like I want to come back bigger and better I want to come back because I want to be back there not because I just want to get not injured anymore like I want to come back with a vengeance a little bit more more to prove so having a nice long 9 to 12 month period at the moment has been a really cool process from a mental perspective to go how do you accept where you are but then also

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not get overwhelmed with the fact that you're in a 12-month injury like how do you find things to be motivated to do each you know each week or each fortnite and what are the winds can I celebrate the fact that now I can hop on one leg or I've just changed direction or whatever it might be could be as small as like I got from 90° to 100° in my Bend you know like whatever those small little wins are taking those and like celebrating them just like you would in a week to week with a team sport you

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know or any any sport in competition where you are used to being sort of outcome driven and that's your game on the weekend but instead you're changing it to like okay I'm at week six my goal should be this based off you know this the data so that's I I'm all about the mindset on it and the physical stuff is a bonus because that's going to come with it and and I imagine as an athlete like like you said before like you are on the hunt for the next win the next score you know the next um moment to

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celebrate and you're trying to take that concept into the recovery stage y yeah pretty much and have how do you feel like this has maybe reshaped your mind having to I guess sit with your thoughts a little bit more and be like less in your body and being hyperactive and being more conscious in planned uh and it's actually slowing down a little bit with with how much you can uh Outlet through your body yeah it's really hard you know I don't play a team sport to train by myself but to be able to then go okay I'm

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focusing purely on me right now like it might be with a bigger goal of being back in a team but ultimately it's a selfish time it is a time to slow down and really like get comfortable being uncomfortable with yourself um as I said before just making sure that you're doing it because you actually want to be back out there like it's it's a really good reminder and I'm I'm so lucky at the moment that I'm doing this with another girl in my team who unfortunately has the same injury as me

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a month or so earlier so we're about on the same time frame but if I was genuinely by myself through this process it would have been a lot harder I think just going through the emotional Journey completely solo because yes people have done it before yes they also know how you feel but you don't want that compassion from someone that's already back doing what you want to do like when you want to be there no one else can understand it like you don't want you don't want them to

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understand like they don't understand where you're what you're feeling right now so I'm so lucky that I have another girl in the same position as me in my team who also plays for Australia who on the days that I'm like [ __ ] this sucks she's like hey what about tomorrow like are you sure you don't want to do that session today because you'll you'll be disappointed in yourself tomorrow and like to have someone that can bounce those thoughts off with you even though

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I would say like I'm pretty strong-minded and and could do it by myself having that external you know opportunity of like the value there to just challenge you slightly on those moments where you could give up is unreal because I know I'm there for her in exactly the same capacity when she's going I don't want to like I'm not able to run this is so frustrating I'm like think about the long game you know like we're here for the right reason what else can we focus on how can we shift

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this to be positive so I'm really like it's such an interesting mind game individually but then even in a two-person environment like I have a team so you just got to try and find the best of the bad um because ultimately like it's it's a choice you can K sit around in Kick stones feel sorry for yourself for 9 to 12 months or you can make this like the best experience ever and that's what I'm trying to do I don't think I would ever turn around and say that this 12 months has been the best 12

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months of my life but with everything that's like every sort of lost opportunity becomes another opportunity to be able to look at and I think like I'm a little bit older than most girls running around the field at the moment um so maybe my body just needed a rest like maybe the like I do believe things happen for reasons and I'm not particularly religious or anything but I do believe that there's like there's some kind of spiritualness there I agree with that and I think often times you know in the world of

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business or whether you're an athlete or what have you things come up and in the moment they're just brutal they suck and you know your your face with something that is is tremendously difficult to overcome I liken it to you know something one of my mentors once said to me and he said that Dane every every setback is an opportunity for a great comeback as cliche as it sounds it's how you come back is is definitive of your character and you know in these times I imagine right now you're developing a

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lot of character you're realizing the power of community and sharing something that you're struggling with with someone else who's going through the same thing regarding your friend what's her name by the way Adana talai shout out and uh you know it's awful that she's in the same predicament but it just shines a light on how powerful it is to Rally people that have an experience of what you're experiencing um so you can have accountability you can have someone help have that honest

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conversation with you what what have been other examples of that throughout your career where there have been other struggles and then you've sought counsel or support from others I suppose like the obvious one is not making teams or not being selected in something where you think you should be and that's a magical it's a really interesting place and I think it's something that we all do in in the world where like you kind of take the feedback or the information you're given and use it how you feel not how it

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was actually given because it makes you feel better so when you get feedback from a coach for you know this week you're on the bench or sorry you're not going to go to the World Cup or whatever it might be you know I I'll give my example for 2017 World Cup I was a stay-at home reserve and the feedback that I heard and that I I hold true is he said the coach said to me Emily we're playing against the biggest teams in the world we need to take the biggest team and I was like well this is [ __ ] I'm

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the size I am I'm not going to be able to change I can't get taller I'm I'm not going to be any better if I'm 10 kilos heavier so if I can make my tackles like surely I'm good enough to be there so I I walked around with a chip on my shoulder for a little bit thinking [ __ ] him like why would you say that why would you pick something that I can't control when I think genuinely back to that conversation with a little bit less emotion do I think he actually said it in that way probably not but did I use

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that as my driver yes but does that mean that it's actually the constructive conversation that I've taken probably not like you know we always take we create stories to fit our narrative what works for us is it someone gets told oh I don't know you you're not physical enough well instead of me being like well like you could take it and be like okay well how like but because you can go pour me all the time with every conversation I think that that's I don't even know what your question was there

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but a great great freestyle here no I I I'm hearing what you're saying I think you know in those moments where you know people share something that puts a chip on your shoulder it's like was it taken out of context and how am I taking that piece and then engineering it into my own narrative and I think people do this in business they do this in life they do this in you know Sports for you have at what point in your career did you catch on to the fact that hey maybe like that the narrative I'm building in my mind um

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isn't 100% accurate and then do you engineer it to kind of do you create chips on your shoulder is that something that helps I'm not a particularly malicious person so I don't think that I like to create chips but I do like you've got to have something that creates a fire because we're in a competitive world everything you have to have some kind of competitiveness too and I I think possibly I've realized it from talking to friends who have gone through you know the the the tough parts

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of selections I've been since making the team in 2018 the the Australian team in 2018 I've missed very few games in fact I've only missed one game due to selection when I've been eligible to play since 2018 so I've been pretty bloody lucky I don't think that luck is a standalone comment but you listen to your your teammates go through hardship through selection and and the way this they tell the story and I think that you know taking perspective from other people is also

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important to how you shape yourself because you're going to be in those situations as well it's the same environment like preparing yourself creating your own armor like you have if you could if you're only relying on your own experience to to create yourself it's the world's going to be a really tough place when you have your first experience of that like you know we talk about hardship this is completely off topic but you go down like a hardship of of life and you think well for me reflectively I've had a

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really great upbringing does that mean that I'm not allowed to have thought about how it would be for someone else so that when when they've had a harder life and they've had to build resilience I've had to build resilience from listen listening and learning so that then if I get a hardship it's not like oh at 25 you get your first hardship and I'm going to crumble because I've never had that before like you still have to build resilience from other people's experience so I think taking that

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reflective side is something that I do a lot of with the people around me I would agree it's almost like how you hear things and adapt them to yourself shapes your quality and there's this really great riff that I read in a book recently called the 10x rule I don't know if you've read it great book it's written by a guy named Grant Cardone and he says that you know trying to operate as a professional but then use you know victimhood as justification as to why you're not doing well is kind of like

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having a business card and handing it to someone and say hey I'm a full-time athlete part-time victim mhm so do you think that like um the victim mindset can really unravel someone's career as an athlete yes 100% it can the victim mindset is like the toxic sort of I don't know snake that comes into any environment right as soon as you're a victim poor me exists and you can pull you you down but Al also can pull the people around you down and like that's that team environment

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part of sport that or team sport that makes it such a volatile environment it it's you're you're never safe in a team environment because all it takes is one person to start tipping the edge of it one way positive or negative and you can you go on this you know roller coaster ride so yes the poor me victim side can tip you and it can catch you off guard right and you know regarding your injury and how you're I guess handling at the moment you're you're taking quite an optimistic

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positive let's get the work done approach to it where did the ability to reframe yourself around your injuries and this kind of mindset like where did it come from it probably has just come from like General life experience like being a female athlete playing a male dominated sport I think there's a little element of like you know I found found rugby when I was 21 at University never played it before i' always watched it and I just like just thought it'd be really cool to learn how to tackle someone it's

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really the honesty urge yeah well I'd always watched it i' only knew that men could play it cuz I only ever saw Men playing it so I didn't think gez this is something I want to do I I dreamt about being asked to play for like the war tis from the grandstand as a six-year-old kid but never did think it was actually something that was an option and then when you learn that you could try it like hell yeah this would be so fun to just just see if I can like I just want to be tackled I just want to learn how

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to like do that but I digress being in that that space where you're kind of you know there's a stigma of like oh this is this isn't really where you're supposed to be it's not normal to be a girl playing rugby and I'm not talking so much today I feel like we're we're in a shifting time which is nice but you know 10 15 years ago when I started it wasn't normal like played at Sydney University and I remember a couple of the old men that were big supporters of the The Men's

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Club being like oh but why are the women doing they're not supposed to so there's always this like you know you have to kind of stroke an ego but also be confident in what you're doing because if you turn around and we're like well we should be doing this you become that preaching person that no one ends up listening to so you know you have to sort of think about how you going to have this conversation with this lovely old man who has a perception of something but also try and change

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it and so I think that like that kind of environment has always meant that you know I I I wouldn't say I'm a feminist but I think you know that equality is really important and that's sort of where my angle has always come from is like well you should be given a chance so why can't you and I don't know how that leads to where we are now but well you make a good point there like it's challenging a narrative you know and for whatever reason there's you know a previous generation cultural bias toward

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what sport is and how it should be played and all the rest of it and I definitely feel like we're in an era where that's really changing and evolving what's been your experience um watching I guess professional sports you know that were predominantly uh televised for men only essentially now really shine a spotlight on women and allowing new careers to take place and allowing Sports to really be seen in you know uh in on a global stage like what's been your experience with that yeah it's

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unreal like it's just cool to to be able to see young girls now looking at a variety of sports that were traditionally male Sports to be able to say like I I could do that that's what I want to do be it water polo be it soccer be it Rugby Union rugby league like all of them are AFL they're all appearing in that contact sport world where traditionally a young girl couldn't look up to a role model of of that looked like them and say I want to be like that so you know the cliche you

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can't be what you can't see I completely believe in and I kind of feel like as we've gone through in our little generation of female rugby players that that's that's kind of been one of the messages that we've been trying to share of like like I didn't have a female role model in Rugby Union in fact I can't give you one that I haven't played with so that generational shift is different whereas there are like young girls I met someone last week at a presentation night who came up to me and

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was like I looked up to you when you were playing rug when well you are playing but I looked up to you you know 10 years ago and watched you play and thought I want to do that too and I think that's like that's a that's a shift that's something that I didn't get that they get now and you know it that sort of drives you to be better to to want to keep thinking about your image to want to keep like growing the game because they will be the ones doing it for the future as well yeah cuz I you

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know imagine that a lot of men that play you know professional sports now uh in you know Union and so on they would have grown up with posters on the wall of you know their Heroes like the people that they wanted to become and you're essentially highlighting that the fact that you didn't really have that as a child but now you're stepping into this role as a role model and now you're potentially going to have your poster on the wall in a little girl's room somewhere and 10 15 years from now she

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might play professionally because of your inspiration I'd love to be on someone's wall as a poster that would be pretty cool just build your own we can do The Branding we got you uh let's get some posters out there I actually just want to say I did truly have Role Models growing up they were just men like I have posters of Adam Ashley Cooper l ly teiri you know Chris Whitaker they were all the people that I watched playing rugby union and thought Oh my God like I want to I want to be like you even

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though maybe that's wrong I admire you cuz I didn't think that I could you know I then had like Net ballers that I I was like oh that's cool like lizis I could I could play netball for Australia but I never thought oh I could play rugby union for Australia big change because I I understand um before University you were playing netball and then all of a sudden you're now you know transitioning Sports what was that transition like going from something like netball into tackling people well well it's a it's a

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good question I actually grew up as a swimmer so I did a lot of that individual sport through Primary School all of high school I was like 11 times a week in the pool diligent 500 a.m. wakeups playing netball as my like oh it's fun because it's a team sport like it's a little bit different I'm Outdoors netball became my like secondary sport through high school and then I was I realized that team sport was probably where I wanted to be so then Nall became my okay let's invest the time in this

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was sort of competing in rep spaces but never really was like damn I want to play for Australia in the diamonds like that was never like Big Goal like I was like oh that'd be nice on a scholarship at Sydney uni playing net ball a come TR rugby day gets mentioned as an as an option me and my best friend who I was playing netball with we were like it'd be kind of cool said that before like just just to learn how to tackle I played netball I ended up on the ground a lot because I got in trouble for contact Wing defense center

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like it kind of like when I look back at it I'm like it makes so much sense like this game was made for me um I played a little bit of water polo at high school and hated it thought like that would be my Sport Mix netball and swimming in the water Happy Days terrible was horrible because the contact happens away from the ball and that's okay whereas in Rugby Union the the contact can only happen if you have the ball and I think you know then you can rest when you're not but water pooll when you were

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resting that's when you got drowned um and then Rugby Union it was just as soon as I learned how to tackle like this is the coolest thing ever like it is a physical game it's a mental game you have to build this relationship with with your teammates instantly because when you think about the like basic game of Rugby Union it is 15 people standing on one side of the field saying Thou shalt not pass and doing everything that they can to stop the person with the ball or the team with the ball from getting past them to score

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a try so if you can't do it for the person next to you they're not going to do it for you either so you have to build this like connection instantly of respect because you're all putting your body on the line you have to work in a system and like build strategy and then walk off a field and be okay with not hitting someone again like it's just this really I don't know the holistic thing of like mind body like energy that you have to give to the game is something that i' never experienced

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before so I got hooked on it so easily from just that like the comaraderie probably the fact that it was a small environment and the fact that you get off the field after playing against people who you've you know done everything to not hurt but stop and be physical with and then you get off the field shake hands have a hug and you're also almost instantly respectful friends I think that that's something that I've not really experienced in the sporting World other than in that Rugby Union

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space and as an athlete who's played professionally in sevens and 15s rugby and for those listening sevens is where it's seven on seven and 15s is 15 on 15 can you explain the difference in playing Styles and the Dynamics on how they're both different yeah so sevens is probably well it's the shortened version of the game for entertainment's sake so it's a faster game more tries in a shorter amount of time so it's a 14-minute game which means that then on the same siiz field you have to be

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faster stronger more technical I suppose to play the game because more explosive energy yeah because in sevens you've got you know if you spread seven people across a field that's roughly 70 M wide that's one person per 10 MERS so you've got 10 meters of space you're doing everything basically by yourself so if you miss your tackle it's a try whereas in 15s you usually don't line 15 people straight along the field but you've got you know maybe 12 so you've hared your

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number of people the number of space between each person so you're now down to like a 5 meter space and you got three people behind you so if you make a mistake there's still someone there to pick up the pieces which makes the game a little bit slower but it also means that you've got opportunity to sort of redeem yourself get back like get one back on someone or build Strate to create opportunity based of what you're seeing so I think the sevens game is it's an unbelievable unbelievable

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version of the game but God it's brutal like you think the contact is a little bit like I don't want to say looser but because it's like one-on ones there's that almost higher risk of injury from that contact but then it's over so quickly so you have to be like highly strong today's episode has been brought to you by rival my agency now if you're listening to this and you're a business owner and you're struggling on how to get your Brands to go to the next level then we're offering you a free

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Discovery call with myself and my team all you have to do is go to rival.com r i y l.com you need a name for your company you want to do package design you need to do photography whatever it is we've got you end to endend so just go to rival.com r y L.C smash the link for a free call versus the 15th game that goes for 80 minutes and as I said there's a lot more strategy you've got a range of body shapes and sizes because you've got bigger scrums bigger line outs so more people involved in smaller spaces so you

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can have you know a 100 kilo girl and then you've got a halfback that's maybe a 50 or 60 kilo girl so you've got this range of shapes and body types but everyone serves a purpose on a 15s field so I don't know I personally love the 15s game because of its traditional nature but then the sevens version is just an unreal spectacle and the athletes are truly specimens yeah and you have a preference to play 15s for for what reasons because I didn't get picked to play sevens so I've chosen my

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sport based off it choosing me um I definitely started playing sevens because when I was transitioning from netball the idea of playing 15s was far more intimidating you know the athlete in sevens is quite a you know a thoroughbred you know they they are truly incredible I was lucky enough to dive into the Aussie 7 space very early in my Rugby career um and I trained with them for two years I ended up going parttime in my Master's Degree so that I could try and train and crack that program and

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unfortunately the coach just one year said thanks but head back to you know Club land and and enjoy rugby you know this isn't the end but like stop training with us now like we've seen what we we needed to see and you're not quite there and it was that conversation that sort of sparked in me like well okay if I'm not going to make this team right now am I am I really going to get faster than I am probably not like not to the speed of some of the girls in this team like that's not

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you you can't really teach speed you can you can tweak speed but sometimes it's like there's there's only so much capacity you can improve so that side of it I was like well I'm probably not going to get faster I didn't come from a touch footy background so the idea of like passing a ball backwards the you know 15 20 M passes that they do not my skill set so if I'm looking at me personally and where I sit and my opportunity is kind of like a business model I suppose if you're genuinely like reflecting on

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where's your opportunity in the market I was like 15s I don't want to but I'm going to have to try it tried it and was like okay well I was an idiot why did I wait this long to try it like this is a great game and this is the game I meant to play how do you figure out as an athlete like when it comes to rugby like what best position plays to your strengths I think the position picks you in a sense I started as a back because I came from sevens so they were I was a forward in sevens because I was a bigger

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sevens player and then you go to 15s and you're a small player so they put you in the backs and I was playing in the centers for a little while and I realized that I think I realized my coach realized that I'm supposed to be following the ball like my job is just to do the Dirty Work I now play in the back row and ultimately and this is not by any means putting down back rowers but we are a work rate position we are not necessarily mean by work we're not necessarily fancy and skill but our job

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is to hit breakdowns and do the dirty work for the team because we just keep going by Dirty Work what what exactly do you mean so my job in defense is to try and get over the ball and be the one that they have to try and get rid of so it's sometimes one of those positions that isn't like making massive line breaks and doing all of the fancy things but it's like the the engine room of the of the team you know we're not making the plays we're not creating you know the fancy stuff but

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then there is also skill to it that you know like if you can turn over a ball that's huge opportunity for us to then play in a a difference in winning a game yeah you know it's like if you look at Scotty Pippen Dennis Rodman or Michael Jordan I understand that Dennis Rodman was just extremely talented at getting the ball back into the right players hand and that could turn a tide of an entire championship sh yeah but he's not necessarily the name that you then go he's the Superstar you're looking at

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the ones that score the points and that's how Wingers you know it's the same sort of process that like everyone plays a role but there are certain people that become the the shiny names because they're the finishers but then you'd also say well hang on but that's their job so it's funny that they're the ones that get the names it's not I'm not taking it away from the ones that have the name but you know like sometimes like well hang on like the only reason they got that is because eight people

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over there did something four phases ago so that's why the beauty of a team sport is that you like they can't do it if we don't create the space for them so I I think that's like the beauty of team sport is there's always got to be a front face teams business there's always got to be a front face and then there's that work work room behind that is creating and helping for that name to be seen now within the teen dynamic because I understand that you know everyone has

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different roles to play does stuff like this create tension among the team does it create any animosity or any difficulty among players I mean if it's creating animosity for you personally you're probably playing with an ego that you shouldn't be and unlucky you can't be the one that's doing it like everyone should know where their role is and I suppose you know if someone wants to try and take that opportunity and thinks they can do it better go for it because that's going to

00:35:54 - 00:37:00

make our team better but ultimately like it's a team sport if you can't can't celebrate your own teammates success and realize that it's also your success is like a culture that's set into the team almost from like a this is what's expected of you Dynamic when you're playing with other people I don't think it's necessarily set in like the waloos or the warar but I think in team sport in general like you don't make it up the ranks or you know like you don't grow

00:36:29 - 00:37:35

or progress in teams if you hold the wrong kind of attitude you know they they always say they the pick the person as much as the player and the skill set can almost sometimes be taught but it's the character that you can't teach and I think that's becoming a bigger part of Team selection that I'm seeing across a lot of teams yes you have to have a baseline of of ability and you have to have like the characteristics that say you're going to work hard and you're going to keep growing as an athlete but

00:37:03 - 00:38:02

if you have the wrong kind of people in in places you generally don't go very far I would say the same thing in business like when we're hiring people here you know even if there I guess is a skill Gap but they just got the right attitude it it's better to have that individual than someone who has a poor attitude and a great resume yeah within the sporting space I think we have the presupposition that it's all physical strength and speed and power and all the rest of it you're shining a light on that it's

00:37:32 - 00:38:28

actually more around the mental fortitude than than anything else obviously you have to have a Bas and you have to hit a kpi of fitness and what have you what are some of the things that teams look for uh in people before they can make it into the big leagues that's a really good question I don't know what like like if there was a list I think it would be out there and everyone would be working on those things so I think it's it's not something that you can have like a a tick box on it's like I don't want to

00:38:00 - 00:38:52

say a feeling either but there's there's things that make someone like good in a team environment be it in business or in sport and that's you know your willingness to celebrate other people's wins and be a be a team player do you think you're better than other people you know maybe I'm maybe I'm going to tell you what I think a good team should be what do you think cuz it's almost like um we have a joke that we do in workshops with clients and often times it can be difficult to try

00:38:26 - 00:39:36

to guess who the Target audiences or whatever yeah so we just have a joke and it's called a WG and it's a marketing term and our clients are always like what's a w and it's a wild ass guess okay nice nice so if you had a wild ass guess of like I think it's like these things like that that they look for yeah okay yeah I have a w Ag and I reckon it's got to be around like that team first mentality like having that ability to sort of realize that yes we want to be I want to be their IND individually but like I

00:39:00 - 00:40:06

am one of 15 or 23 or a squad of 30 so my selfishness can't come in front of the success of the team so I think that that side of it is massive I don't want to say someone that like picks up the kit and is like you know conscious of their environment but in the same breath like being the person that doesn't think that other people are beneath them is also really important like no one walks into an environment and owns it like you create it so being a part of that being you know like oh

00:39:34 - 00:40:41

someone's got to take the water bottles someone's got to pick up the rubbish or you know like I just used a chair and a table and a laptop I'll just leave it there like that kind of person doesn't really fit because if there was 30 of them traveling on a tour there'd never be a laptop that was charged and then everyone loses you know it's just like again team first sort of behaviors I think you've got to have competitiveness because it is Sport it's competitive it's a competition everything is

00:40:08 - 00:41:11

competition be it you know competing against your teammates at training for selection or competing in a game to try and win it's all competition but there has to be that element of like humbleness that goes with it because you have to remember that you're there for greater than you I mean i' like to say you got to have good personality you going to want to be part of the team but not everyone needs to be an like an extrovert to to fit in because the beauty of the 15s game is that you

00:40:39 - 00:41:41

travel with 30 players you can't have 30 extroverts in one room you have to have some people that are happy to just go with the flow and do their job like that's the like teams don't have to be all of one type of person you do have to have some big characters you do have to have some quiet ones that don't mind some ones that like to wake up early in the morning some that like to go to bed late like you want to have a diversity of people you just want to know that you're all like hardworking

00:41:10 - 00:42:07

and I don't know in the right going in the same direction and that's not like we want to win a World Cup it's like understanding what the long journey is and how to how to be part of the journey not just focused on that like destination that makes sense to me and when you think about team Dynamic I imagine that there's on the field Dynamics and then off the field Dynamics and I imagine that they both kind of feed each other if you're doing poorly on the field it probably creates issues behind the

00:41:39 - 00:42:56

scenes and viov versa have you have you seen um you know the culture um shift because of what's Happening behind the field and and on the field yeah absolutely I think when you can come together off the field and it can be over the smallest things be it a night out drinking together and bonding in that social side or something that you're super passionate about together that sort of bought you be it as bad as this might sound a Unity of not liking a coach like that can bring a team together to no end um have you seen that

00:42:19 - 00:43:32

recently we won't say too much maybe in the last five years I have seen that absolutely like definitely in the last five years I've seen that in varying levels of the game and I think it's incredible because you still have to work for that person you still get selected by them and as a group you also have to connect and go not stick it to him or her but like let's do this together and I think you know that that sort of sounds silly but we've even in the last couple of years as the Woos posted a a public

00:42:56 - 00:44:01

announcement about how we were feeling mistreated by rugby Australia our governing body and that's a pretty intimidating and powerful thing to choose to do but because we did it we had to stand together as the players which then meant that kind of everything rode on our performances so you have to then pull together and feel this connection that you know you maybe wouldn't have had because you didn't go public and I understand that you you know before you talked about luck and I think you know luck comes and goes and

00:43:29 - 00:44:43

we make our luck in many ways you know by just repetition and discipline and showing up you know luck appears I wouldn't say that your debut was luck cuz when you had your debut you became player of the year and now you know you're within the leadership team as well what kind of pressure did um Player of the Year put on your career and then is it similar to being in the leadership team no it's not the same as being in the leadership team at all I think I was I don't want to say naive but at the

00:44:06 - 00:45:23

beginning of a career at that level I didn't have anything I was thinking about I didn't have pressures I didn't have people ready to judge me already like my first Clean Slate yeah also want to preface and this is not to take away from the fact that I got player of the year but I got Player of the Year in a year of 2018 when we played two test matches for the year so the team Australia women only played two games so I kind of just got to ride that like endorphin dopamine like roller coaster

00:44:44 - 00:45:50

of like oh my God I'm debooting for my country and then I'm playing a game two weeks later for my country again in New Zealand and no one had any time to like criticize me or analyze me or I didn't have time to do it to myself um so in a in a way like I didn't get a chance to put pressure on myself after playing well in game one cuz they you know game two happened and that was the year and I really don't want to take it away from myself because like that will you know live on a trophy

00:45:17 - 00:46:29

forever and in the history books and I know I deserved it but in the same breath like I didn't do any overthinking I didn't have time to overthink I had a roller coaster of emotions going into the game thinking I wasn't did not even realizing that I was in the mix to be picked for the game to then just going out and I reflect on that debut and just go I we play structure we play a game of Rugby Union where there were rules and I didn't follow any of them like I just like I'm

00:45:53 - 00:46:57

sure we spent the week in the leadup learning structure and I also don't remember any of it like if you like genuinely like there's moments in the game where like there's a moment where we had a scrum on the left hand side of the field and I was playing number six job of a number six everyone knows the job of number six when you're in defense is to hold that short side scrums started to turn I just go oh I'll follow the scrum and the ball all the way to the other side of the field like

00:46:25 - 00:47:24

if they' swung back there would have been space where I was meant to be because no one else holds your space they're doing their own jobs I just follow the ball lucky enough to get off the line and get an intercept don't go for inter like I don't go for intercepts we don't practice going for intercepts like why I thought this is what I should do no idea but I got the intercept and the coach afterwards was like if you didn't get that intercept we were in so much trouble and

00:46:54 - 00:48:04

I was like oh well lucky I did like you know just like almost oblivious which is an amazing place to be if you reflect on like how much we overthink things and how much we put pressure on ourselves the way I played I didn't have any pressure on myself and maybe I just like I always grapple with that idea of like how much work do you do for like the mental preparation for a game and like the mental preparation for sport and then sometimes I think as an overthinker in life why the do we have to over like if

00:47:30 - 00:48:31

you know you've done the work why do you need to then go okay I'm going to breathe in and I'm going to visualize me scoring like don't know you've done the work and just go and play but then obviously the longer you play the more you're like well you can't just rely on feeling good all the time and so I think that's sort of where the progression goes is like I was not lucky but I created my luck from just trusting a process and taking opportunities that were given to me to now being like well

00:48:01 - 00:49:02

if you know that you know you're regularly there you can't rely that every day you're going to have a good day and you're just going to turn up and play well so you need to pull on other skills and resources that you that are given to you and that that is the mental game um it is being able to visualize it is being able to write like and follow a structure and a routine like all of those things are how you how I create my luck I suppose I do really want to say cuz I've been thinking about this

00:48:30 - 00:49:43

recently yes it's about the person off the field but if we just rely on that we're never going to be good enough at what we do because you can have the strongest mind still not be able to catch a ball and then you're still not a good enough rugby player to be picked so I think that there's an element of like what I think and I value is the the human being yes but then also how you work on your skill and work on your craft is not just the recovery and that seems to be the thing we talk about the most now it's

00:49:07 - 00:50:28

like the new the new thing everyone talks about recovery and mindset and I think they are massive but to me if you recover all you like if you're not better than anyone else at passing and catching or tackling or line outs or scrums or whatever the skill set is that you need to do in your game recovery means nothing would you say that there's an element then of obsession and recently I was in um Miami and I was doing a keynote and um Tom Brady was there and he was doing a Q&A and he was getting asked questions about

00:49:47 - 00:50:53

Obsession and the nature of such and he was saying things like look you know often times you know people on the team would go and hang out for drinks or go watch a movie or blo steam or whatever and he said that he'd be there watching old games and he was trying to pick up tactics and tips like he became ruthlessly obsessed with finding that little Edge over his competitors where where would that Obsession stem from for you if you're looking at all the rules of the game but then you're also taking into fact that

00:50:20 - 00:51:25

at your debut you kind of went against the rules unknowingly like how do you find a balance and and where do you try to Point your obsession when you're trying to improve I think you've always got to be really self-reflective on what your strengths are what your work on are and then be realistic about what the investment of time is going to get for an outcome you know we a lot of people talk about like let's get better at your you know what what we're not quite as good at and I agree but I also

00:50:53 - 00:52:01

think there's a reason you have a strength and if that is your superpower make it your super power and keep it your superpower you can always you know I think you should work on both I don't think that you know you just say oh you know I could get better contact but we'll just leave that one because I'm actually really fit I think you've got to work on both but I think that the obsession has to come from firstly a desire to get better and secondly because you care and then thirdly from your thought process

00:51:26 - 00:52:36

on on what it is and then how I don't know what do you think where does Obsession yeah I I've wrangled with Obsession as a concept for a long time and in my brain at least when I meet people that aren't obsessive um it it confuses or baffles me it's kind of like why like it it seems alien to me uh but then I realize that everyone's obsessed with something whether it be you know addictions or vices or watching Netflix or gaming or collecting things or gambling or whatever like we all have addictions

00:52:03 - 00:52:58

it's just I find that for me it's it's taking that energy that would be you know in something like I love collecting for example so then I'm like look rather than collecting um you know comic books which I which I love to do I have many Spawn comics or Walking Dead comics um and I spend far too much money on it I'm just like what is that Obsession like why why is that there and I'm like can I point that toward my business a bit more can I point that towards my personal brand a

00:52:31 - 00:53:33

bit more and you know often times people say things like well you know I'm just not excited about social media I'm like try to find a way to get obsessed with it like just try to gamify the process so for me I think obsession is something we innately have it's just where we point it U to findes out success yeah I like that I have an obsession with ice cream how do I point that to help me with rugby or or I have an obsession with ice cream too I've been uh hit in gelatissimo far too often and my excuse

00:53:02 - 00:54:00

is I have a four-year-old daughter and it's Daddy Daughter date we got to get ice cream right I don't have a daughter or a son what's my excuse you know it's like I need that release man like I'm wound up you know I work hard I work hard this this is my treat for myself now back to uh I guess representing your country cuz I think this is a really interesting concept right you know many athletes out there strive to wear a Jersey and then the moment they put it on it like really hits them uh and it's

00:53:31 - 00:54:44

quite a defining moment for many representing your country on the global stage carries like an immense pride and pressure as I can imagine what did it mean to you to put on the Australian jersey for the first time and including that of singing the National Anthem yeah pride pride is the first word that comes to my mind when I think about representing Australia um as you said it's something that so many people grow up dreaming about or or thinking about or watching on TV be it you know just regular test matches or

00:54:07 - 00:55:16

International games or Olympics like there's there's like this Pinnacle idea that it's well it is the top of your sport you know getting to be that like 1 2% of probably the nation that's a really thrown up made up stat but 1 to 2% of the Australian population would represent their country I just think it's yeah it's it's something that you dream about and then to be able to to make it a reality comes from hard work and so that Pride factor is not just pride in representing Australia but it's knowing

00:54:42 - 00:55:56

that you've done everything to be there like you've earned this Blood Sweat tears sacrifice of time and what else have you taken away or you know made choices in your life and maybe miss out on things to get there and I think like that's that's the moment it's not just for you it's it's for all of the things that you've said no to to get to that point or the things you've said yes to to get to that point and I think that's like yeah the the national anthem is

00:55:19 - 00:56:37

probably one of the worst in terms of keys and tone to to sing really loudly and proudly and potentially be heard on National TV goes viral when you get it wrong absolutely does but I think you know to be able to say that I have belted the national anthem out pretty much every time I've worn an Australian Jersey is something I'm truly proud of because not many people do get that opportunity to stand side by side their teammates facing the crowd and your sing before you play regarding the the J

00:55:57 - 00:57:02

as a concept like I have this you know discussion with my mentor often around you know the power of having an alter ego and we talked to uh Olivia Vivian about this and she competes a Ninja Warrior and she has like this alternative version of herself that she clicks into gear when she's competing when you put the Jersey on You Sing the anthem are you priming yourself to to tap into an alter version of your ego to play at the level that you play I'd like to say no because I'd like to think that

00:56:30 - 00:57:36

every game I play I play with the same amount of energy and expectation on myself and with a desire to be the best that I can be whether it be in an Australian Jersey or a New South Wales warar Jersey or a Sydney uni Club Jersey or over in Japan or in England or wherever you know whatever Jersey you put on I think you want to do the same thing as you want to play the best that you can you want to do your job for for the team so there's an extra element of like damn this jersey has the you know the crest

00:57:04 - 00:58:13

on it and it's it is Australian and you want that to mean something more but you also for me like I guess it's an armor like you do put it but I would say I put it on an armor every time I get onto the field then I also put on head gear because that helps me as that armor sort of principal so maybe it's more when I put my head gear on that I feel like I'm setting my myself up to to go to battle and to to do something great yeah I I used to have this um weird thing I would do cuz I

00:57:37 - 00:58:34

played rugby in high school and I would um so I would play on the wing usually cuz I had speed and I was a skinny tall kid uh I would get messed up in tackles but I if you gave me the ball I I could disappear but I remember um superpower yeah it's my superpower but I remember before uh a game I'd put my headphone in and I'd play um The Beautiful People by Marilyn Manson and it would just put me in a state where I was like I want to destroy people and I remember walking on the field and like shaking people's

00:58:06 - 00:59:04

hands Whispering The Beautiful People to them while I'm listening to it just to psych him out and then also to pump me up like I'm going to smash you in this game do you have anything that you use to Prime yourself before you play cuz that was something weird I used to do to just get me in a pissed off State see I am just like it's so interesting talking to to people about the mindset of going into a game of Rugby Union or going into competition because some people work on anger some people work on like getting

00:58:35 - 00:59:48

pumped up I listen to the greatest showman love that I listen to songs that make me feel really good and happy and not necessarily about performance even though like you know this is me is is a bit of a performance I think what I reflect on why I listen to this music is it's empowering and it's not about I'm not I'm not angry I'm not aggressive I don't go out to try and hurt people I'm not the most physical person I'm like do it do it again piss them off because they are never getting

00:59:12 - 01:00:10

past me I'm going to keep working I'm going to keep going so the idea of being able to go out there and go like have fun this is me like it doesn't matter what you throw at me I'm going to keep coming or this is the greatest show and like just that like I don't know just like it makes my chest pump rather than like Angry music I'm like well you can tell I was an angry teenager right angry 16-year-old walking out in the field staring at people aggressively Whispering the beautiful people shaking

00:59:41 - 01:00:53

their head and just thinking that's terrifying whereas I'd be like the one that's like bouncing along with all this extra energy being like I can't wait to go out there and have so much fun so like I truly like I write um sort of three or four Focus points for before every game in a in a journal and without a doubt every time one of them is either like Stick it to the Man or show them who you are or have fun like one of them has to be like this is your time to shine Show the World who you are or go out and play

01:00:17 - 01:01:16

with a smile because you do this because you [ __ ] love it and that is my energy like that is that is me I'm not G to change that so when like people try and get that like how do you how do you get up for things I'm like I just have so much fun like I want to piss you off because I'm there all the time and I've still got a smile on my face so that's that's my psych I really love that and I think it it's it's shining a light on your personality your demeanor and how you you stay

01:00:45 - 01:01:51

pumped as a person as well minus Marilyn Manson what tips or advice could you give to I guess both professional and emerging athletes um when it comes to dealing with all the pressure because as the career builds right like you're now aware of all the rules you're aware of all the things you could do wrong and I imagine the pressure increases over time pressure is a privilege like as soon as you feel pressure you know you you're making it in the right places and I think you know love that we talk about

01:01:18 - 01:02:24

nerves and fear and I think nerves is something that you should embrace and fear only exists if you possibly haven't done the work or you don't feel that you belong in that space how do you delineate between nerves and fear have you done the work so if you've done the work and you have the nerves you're in the right place you're in the right place and that's where the pressure comes and fear is maybe a sign that you haven't done the work yeah cuz I think you you can walk somewhere that you've never been

01:01:51 - 01:03:07

before and be like o this is a big Stadium oh that's like you kind of it's it is a mindset like I think the the emotive feelings or like the reactions that your body give you between fear and nerves are the same interesting yeah so so then how would someone really how would you really separate the two for those listening the Mind believing like trusting that you've done what it takes to be there like what is like what is nerve and what is fear it's like an increased heart rate potentially a little bit sweaty turning

01:02:30 - 01:03:35

turning tummy like you might be feeling a little bit sick if you go oh my God I'm I'm I'm so worried I shouldn't be here like you have to go hang on have you done the work did you earn your spot here like does someone else believe in you yes so if you can take that into like a self-belief or if you need to go to an external place and go someone else selected me to be here they trust that I've done enough like whatever your you know some people don't work with internal I don't know self- ratification

01:03:02 - 01:04:06

like some people need that external like reassurance it's been made for you if you've been picked in a team someone else has decided you're good enough to be there so you got to use that external pressure or external feedback to say this shouldn't be fear this should be nerve and I don't know how you change that otherwise but for me it's like if I'm verging on the I'm this is too much I'm like hang on I've worked really hard to be here like I've earned this this is

01:03:34 - 01:04:56

nerve and nerve is good it may be a sign that you care yeah as well yeah whereas I think fear comes from it has to come from some some place of of lack of belief in yourself and that doesn't like I think that does lead to that pressure side and say well pressure is something that is created possibly by yourself so if it's a nervous energy that you're leaning into the pressure like diamonds are created from pressure right like sometimes the best things come from feeling a little bit uncomfortable

01:04:15 - 01:05:14

and you should embrace that pressure rather than being like being afraid of it if you walk away from pressure you're probably never going to like see how good you could be yeah it's almost like you could see you know pressure in whatever regard like as an athlete or or in business as an invitation oh yeah I I like to look at pressure as an invitation because I I think you're right like when you when you have the nerves cuz you can you're a human being we're going to feel emotions

01:04:45 - 01:05:52

right things are going to crop up you're going to get sweaty your stomach's going to turn I'm getting sweaty just thinking about to be honest what what are some things you've um I guess Beyond anchoring to okay people believe in me I have a support system this role was created for me XYZ what what are some other things people can just generally do to um build self-esteem build self-confidence what are some things that you try to do in in life and in and in your career I'm a routine girl I found a lot

01:05:17 - 01:06:34

of value reassurance and comfort in knowing that I have a plan and that's weekly plan a monthly plan like every Sunday without a doubt I've written on a piece of paper my full week and that's training that's work that's when I want to do something social when I want to like whatever it might be I'm fitting that on this piece of paper and if it's written on the piece of paper it's going to happen and I think that for me that's how I build that trust in myself that I've

01:05:57 - 01:07:02

done the work when I reflect back I'm like well if I write it down it's happening and if it's written down and I have to change it it has to be written somewhere else on that piece of paper um I've also been reflecting a little bit through this injury period that like sometimes you need to go through the the es and the flows of routine to have no routine to then appreciate routine again so you can't live your life doing like following a strict routine all the time because you burn yourself out and it

01:06:28 - 01:07:47

gets boring um but I do also think that like almost losing control is really important to be able to then regain control so that's one of the things that I really hold on to is trusting that I'm doing the work and knowing that I've written it down to do the work in terms of like being intentional of like thinking like I'm going to have a moment to visualize but if you ask me can I picture myself doing all of the great things that I want to do in a game yes I I have like a highlights really play

01:07:14 - 01:08:13

mind what do you do well that you you struck an interesting point my mind here in my mind went to I've seen this video of Conor McGregor online and he talks about how before a fight he plays how he he believes the fight is going to play out in his head again and again and again and again and there's this famous video where he said that you know before video he's like this is how I'm going to knock him out I can see it in my head I know the Maneuvers everything I'm going to do he almost

01:07:44 - 01:08:49

like completely Nostradamus predicted how the fight would play out then the fight starts and it goes according to how he imagined it and maybe it comes back to the nerves and fear thing it's like he played it so much in his head to kind of maybe remedy the nerves perhaps I don't know the interesting thing I think with visualization is something that has a lot of woooo attached to it and I I often times on my walk to and from work cuz I have an 8 minute walk here and an 8 minute walk home and every

01:08:17 - 01:09:20

time I do that walk I try to remove any distractions phone calls or anything and every morning and every night I play uh a series of sound tracks and I I imagine the next 3 to four years of my life in Fast Forward I do weird [ __ ] like I imagine my bank account scaling I imagine my social media numbers going up I imagine you know my team growing and I'll s out new building and like it I just I need to feel what it feels like in the future so it's almost like I'm not for me it's not about the

01:08:49 - 01:10:00

manifestation component it's about I want to feel it I want to feel the future and bring that feeling now and for me when I when I do this in the morning I just I feel like I get to work with an energy or an aura of like this is happening let's go versus fingers crossed I hope things go my way I I try to psych myself into an emotional state and that that's what manifestation quote unquote does for me I got two questions for you on that yeah first question do you ever so when you are doing your thought process of

01:09:24 - 01:10:24

the the next 3 or 4 years every day mhm does it change yeah all the time uh in in in many regards like depending on what my focus is that day I'll I'll focus on that there's a lot of repeats I have like uh cuz when I listen to certain music is a really great way for me to kind of shift emotional states so if I wake up in the morning I'm tired I'm pissed off I haven't had my coffee yet I'll put on music and I'm like I feel this way even though I don't and I start to on my 8 minute walk moving the

01:09:55 - 01:11:07

body I start to feel a lot better the endorphins here the dopamine kicks in but there's certain images I play in my head again and again every day but there might be nuances or differences to different things on a bad day do they go negative ever I not when I'm doing the process because I think I've kind of anchored myself into doing it a certain way but I do wake up in the morning often times with a lot of um head noise head noise and I recently did something called um it's like a a wake up journal and you

01:10:30 - 01:11:33

can try this and it's like the second you wake up grab a pen and just start writing it's the weirdest experience because you have to remember to do it but when you literally wake up you open the notepad and you start writing in it the most disgusting vile awful thoughts come out of your mind and you're like holy crap this is my unconscious so I always I always try to catch that unconscious dialogue um and then flip it into something positive if I can what about you cool I don't know I don't I

01:11:01 - 01:11:59

don't do the I don't everyone has to have negative thoughts right because if you don't have the negative thoughts you're not really thinking about the whole of life because there's always a chance of something bad happening as again we've said multiple times in this today that you know it's how you react to something that that matters The Experience makes you stronger so I think sometimes thinking about the negatives like you don't want to sit as a pessimist but you never want to sit

01:11:30 - 01:12:29

too much as an optimist I agree so you have to find that middle ground as a as a friend but as a as an individual for success as well like if you're always the person that someone that when they come to you with a problem or you know a thought you're always the positive they won't listen to your positive like you got to have a dynamic I think so I think you know in everything we do in life you have to have a dynamic so when you're talking to yourself if you only ever throw the positives at

01:12:00 - 01:13:04

yourself how do you build your own resilience you know you say your bank account is is growing in the next three to four years what happens when it goes backwards have you have you emotionally like built some base resilience on how you would deal with that have to deal with it when it gets there there's a funny thing that I I love what you're saying here and it's truez again it might sound like I'm a brutal Optimist but I'm very much you know as my Marilyn Manson story there's

01:12:31 - 01:13:35

a dark side of me and I think um Jim ran uh someone I listen to and and he's he's just a really funny kind of you know um I guess keynote speaker that has passed but I I listen to his stuff often and he said it's really good to have a list of people you want to prove wrong and at the top of my list is my high school principal got tell us a story much at the top of my list and and it's just something kind of petty but it's like it's just something that pumps me up cuz it it it in a I think if you

01:13:04 - 01:14:02

can have a few dark thoughts sometimes you need to reach into what David Goggins calls the cookie jar and you pull out a cookie and you're like I'm going to use a bit of this energy and you know my high school principal you know said to me she said that you're not very intelligent you're not going to amount anything unless you straighten up like you're going to be an absolute failure for the rest of of your life and if you don't get past year 12 you're never going to succeed and I saw her um

01:13:32 - 01:14:26

a couple years later in um in a bookstore like four years ago and at this point in time I had a lot of success and I walked up to her and I said Hey do you remember me and she's like dang I was like hey what's up just want to let you know I didn't finish a year 12 but I'm making a lot of money and this is what I'm doing now and she was just like and I just walked off but for me that cookie was so sweet man and it can sound like absolute pettiness but like it was just something that I had in

01:13:59 - 01:15:04

my mind do you have those things that you carry with you that maybe someone said that do fire you up and is a little bit of a dark dark concept yeah i' I've talked about it already today that coach in 2017 that said that you're not big enough we're playing against the biggest teams in the world and I think I've always use that like that was the last time I didn't get picked for Australia it's not quite true the last time I didn't get picked for a tour for Australia we'll go with that and

01:14:32 - 01:15:47

I just like I've held on to that being like it's the simplest way to say a big Fu of like guess what still the same size now making it like using that and I I had to sit with those words for a while before I could turn them into something positive like I remember the first I don't know two months being like like what do they want me to do like I I could play with heels like what do you like I can't stretch myself yeah and and feeling like a little bit helpless with the comment to then turn around and go

01:15:09 - 01:16:10

like Okay show them what else you've got like no you don't have to be the biggest player but I'm going to work out how I can use my size and my strengths to prove that you need me I definitely am not a malicious person so didn't play my first test match and go haha to him like that comment him as a person like me the uh in the bookstore with my principal yeah well I mean maybe it wasn't quite the same like it's that was definitely my version of haha you know yeah yeah where like to me like the person that

01:15:40 - 01:16:57

said it means so little to me in my life that if I'm wasting my time trying to find him to to say haha I have time for that all the money to be fair um but I've taken the words and the feeling that the words gave me and I've used that as my cookie and I think you know there have been a few comments that I've got throughout my career as as a female rugby player that you hold on to and you go [ __ ] you you know like this is my Stick it to the Man you know moment be it women shouldn't do this or you won't

01:16:18 - 01:17:18

make it or oh girls girls girls play rugby you know like those little things that like slide under and you're like build it hold on to it so when I run out there and you go oh is that a girl oh [ __ ] she's actually quite good like I know that I'm winning I don't need to say in an interview at the end of the game be like yeah I'm really good at tackling people what you know come on let's go run it straight like that's just not that's not me so I just I take the the words and and use them for sure

01:16:49 - 01:17:53

in that David goggin's kind of yeah I love his book yeah when I read his book I hated running and remember listening to his book and I wish he read it that's my only the only thing is cuz I listen to the audio version so did I I guess in conclusion of everything we're talking about today you know how how do you really want to be remembered I guess when when your career is is coming to completion I suppose you want to be remembered for the the person that you are as well as the player um like your play your

01:17:21 - 01:18:43

onfield reputation kind of verifies person that you are I'd like to think and I I guess if I reflect on like what my values are as a person or what I'd like to you know like I'd like other people to feel when when they're around me is number one curious because I think I Am Naturally a why I feel like I'm still that 5-year-old kid that's just learned what why means and I want to know the silliest things all the time but I also think you can't grow if you're not learning and you can learn about

01:18:02 - 01:19:09

anything all the time so I always want to be known as like that curious person that's like open to growth I want to be known as a Dependable person or an accountable person someone that you can always trust to turn up if they say they're going to turn up or do something they say they're going to do hardworking and I just want to be known as that person that like I'm not the loud funny one all the time I'm a big thinker and a hard worker and I'd just like to be known as someone

01:18:35 - 01:19:39

that has sort of worn their heart on their sleeve and put put things out there but also isn't afraid of the confrontation if I were to give you a two-word brand at this point it would be joyfully Relentless I like that you're Relentless but you have a smile on your face yeah it's very smiling assassin The Smiling assassin that's another one what's a quote or a mantra that you've carried with you on this journey that you wished everyone listening to this would immediately Implement trying

01:19:10 - 01:20:26

is cool yeah I think it's something I've really bought into Club rugby and I really stand by it and I think particularly in Australia we have a huge tall poppy syndrome and we're afraid to do something if success isn't like the most obvious option straight away and if you can be around people that pull you up or celebrate you putting in the work to try something your opportunities become so much greater because firstly you're around people that want to see you succeed and will be there for you when

01:19:47 - 01:20:52

you don't and secondly you get that opportunity to take people on your journey so you know I use this as a simple example at at clubl if you want to get fitter message the group and say hey I'm going to be at training 15 minutes early I want to run see how many other girls will turn up and run with you because it's so much easier to do it when you've got the accountability there but also this is a team where we are all here cuz we want to get better so why are we afraid of trying if you want to get better at

01:20:20 - 01:21:37

passing ask someone to pass a ball with you 50 times before or after after training like it's so easy to do a couple of things extra but we're always to too afraid of the failure that might come if we try passing and we don't get better at it straight away yeah almost almost like the fear of uh going through the learning huddles yeah um when you wake up in the morning what keeps you going I don't want to say it's easy but like I don't know life for me like you choose you choose to wake up with energy you

01:21:02 - 01:22:13

choose to wake up and go today is going to be a good day so I think the choices that we make in our outlook on life really Define how you set yourself up um and I think that's where like the energy and the positive outlook come from might be a natural disposition for me but I think it's also a choice like I can have a bad day I can be grumpy but if I choose to then laugh and have fun on that grumpy and bad day far out it goes away so quickly like you realize that the tension you're holding on

01:21:36 - 01:22:53

to sometimes you're creating and you can choose to enjoy life and choose to see positives so a positive mindset well said I think you know when we look at life uh it's a choice right you know people think that feelings come first I think you know if we can train ourselves to guide how our feelings reflect things I think we can choose to be happy we can choose to you know do the little things that surmount to the big outcome we can also choose to like try and be successful because it's not it's not easy and if it

01:22:15 - 01:23:18

was easy everyone would be successful but if you don't have that intent to work hard to do it of course you're not going to be so I think like the intention of of like yeah hard work and and wanting to go somewhere where people don't normally go is a pretty cool place to be like if you reflect and go like no no one else chooses to do what I'm doing right now or very few people are willing to hurt as much as I am in the gym knowing where my outcome is going to be that's why you're successful in business

01:22:47 - 01:23:56

or in sport or whatever it is you're doing because you're choosing to do more than someone else when when you're faced with I guess um the injury at the moment is there any athletes that come to mind for you that you draw inspiration from um I hate to say no I haven't really I wish I had a really like inspirational answer for you here but I think everyone's journey is so different and if I was to look too closely at like Sarah hirney who's just come did a did a six or seven month

01:23:23 - 01:24:29

return or say kisi who plays is a South African Captain he came back in like 112 days I got to 112 days and I was like oh my God I can't even run yet and this man came back and played like the inspirational stories are often the ones that you see and they're the one percenters they're the ones that almost make your journey feel less valuable because you're comparing yourself so I haven't really looked at anyone individually and thought that's who I want to like hold on to as

01:23:56 - 01:24:52

a like part of this journey but instead I've sort of gone like okay how how do I use this to make my journey better and I've gone like okay I'm going to listen to because I can't read self-help books I can only listen to them because I need to think too much whilst I'm getting the information and I don't get through pages so I've been listening to like culture books and team environments and like winning in the locker room and like all of these kind of like bne brown like

01:24:25 - 01:25:45

I've been diving into that side to try and make my journey better when I come out of it so I've got more perspective on things when I re-enter different answer sorry it's not phenomenal thank you and last question what's a door you need to kick in to go to the next level fear I think because like that mindset thing like particularly around an injury like I've got at the moment the statistics says that you're going to do it again once you do one ACL there's such a high

01:25:11 - 01:26:44

chance of doing either the same one again or the other one and I think the older I am in this game and the potentially less amount of time that I have to play the idea of doing this again is terrifying but it's a very possible reality so accepting that I say fear and I'm like am I afraid of it no but I am afraid of doing it again for the Jour like to have to be have to find the resilience in a different capacity to say to not say poor me so I think yeah kicking the door of fear to say I have done the work and trust my body

01:26:00 - 01:27:09

and what will be will be beautifully said I've enjoyed every minute of our conversation I think you have an amazing mindset and it seems like you know your approach to this uh is admirable and you know I I only hope that you have a fast and you know epic recovery and no repeat injuries um and we look forward to seeing you back in the game thank you so much Dane it's been such a pleasure to be on the show with you thank you today's episode has been brought to you by rival my agency now if you're listening to this and

01:26:35 - 01:27:32

you're a business owner and you're struggling on how to get your brand to go to the next level then we're offering you a free Discovery call with myself and my team all you have to do is go to rival.com R y.com you need a name for your company you want to do package design you need to do photography whatever it is we've got you end to endend so just go to rival.com r y l.com smash the link for a free call

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