The New Media Era: The Shift To Personal Branding | Dan Martell & Taki Moore

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The data is clear. Founders who hide in the shadows are [music] losing to founders who step into the lights. I don't want to just talk about this. I want to give you guys the blueprint today. So, I brought in the [music] masters of content. To my right, we have Dan Martell. >> Mr. Dan Martell. >> To my left, we have Taki Moore. >> Talk more. >> Find the thing you're willing to do for a long period of time. Your audience will feel the energy that you put into the work. Everything is a game of hotter

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or colder. And whether it's through the data or through, you know, pride and [music] gut feel, we're just going what's most me and what's most them. >> If you think about the notion that people have a fear of being seen as an expert, do you think they've got a fear of being seen as an expert or a fear of being seen as [music] not an expert? If anything, don't be worried about not being seen of an expert. Your gift could be the fact that you can speak to people [music] that are not experts. So, the

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way I got good at this when I went pro is I just I found the best in the world. So, everybody askked like, "Who's the best in the world on YouTube?" Answer is >> Mr. Beast. >> There you go. Okay. So remember my kid, he's like 12 and he goes, "Well, if Mr. Beast told everybody how to do it, why isn't everybody doing it?" Effort counter argument. >> Just starting is literally pulling out your phone and hitting that record button. And I'll give everybody a hack.

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You're allowed to record and never post. [music] So my goal is do it with brown pants and then pretty soon you get to do it with clean pants cuz you've done it a few times. Most people who start don't finish. The way you win is you're the dude who just does the laps. You don't have to be first, but you win if you do it. If nobody heard what Taki just said, this is the biggest upgrade. [music] This episode is brought to you by Wick Studio. Here at the agency podcast, we're

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building a community and we would love for you guys to be a part of it. So, we would love to hear from you. What are you enjoying the most? What would you like to see more of? And what do you think might be missing? Drop a comment. Make sure you subscribe. And now, on with the show. I'm excited to pull back the veil today and let people see what you're really doing for what it really is and help transfer some of these skills onto others. First, I want to just highlight Dan Martell who didn't

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just get famous, you engineered a content machine with over 6 million subscribers on all your channels. You've dominated social media and content and you've done it quickly. Second, Taki, the strategist, the man who has worked with the likes of Dan Martell and Alex Hozi and Jay Wright and many more. Taki is the mastermind behind many of the world's leading coaches. We're going to teach you how to stop renting your future and start owning it. Welcome to the content masterass. Excited to have

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you guys here. >> Yeah, man. >> It's an honor, man. This is fun. >> Well, let's kick it off with a hard one. >> Great. >> Attention is a currency. What do founders misunderstand about earning it, spending it, and weaponizing it? >> Uh, earning it. I think in the old days it was easy. You just post something and that was enough. And now with the shift in the algorithm from social graph, you know, more followers equals wins to interest graph, best content wins. That

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sound like that's an opportunity for a beginner creator, but it's also a a bit of a kick in the pants for the people who've been working really hard to build an audience for a long time. I've built this thing and now it doesn't like you can't rest on that. What's great about it is it levels the playing field and now best content wins and best content is a most valuable and b packaged. So I think that's the that's the opportunity and that's the challenge. >> Yeah. The the cool part about content if

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you do it right is it one educates another part entertains. Some people miss that part. And if you want to go even deeper to get kind of a fuller picture, it inspires. And I think that the ones that are brave enough, because I really think it takes that content is so scary because you're essentially putting yourself out there to be criticized and judged by anybody and everybody. And it takes a certain type of person who's willing to bear their soul that way and really do the work. So, I think like if you want the

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attention, you also have to get ready for the work it's going to force you to do in the comments. I think you guys both make really good points here about the mindset shift it really takes to get comfortable with this. When you think about uh when you think about a founder getting into a position where they're like, "Okay, I'm going to start." What do you believe is the most confronting moment that they have to deal with in order to start the process? >> I think there's a lot. Um, this time

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last year, we ran an event together in Manley [clears throat] and on one of the breaks there was like a little um, park bench. I sat down with you and with Sam and Tony on my team. Uh, by the way, in some interviews there's like the smart guy and the dumb guy. I'm playing role of dumb guy here. [laughter] Um well because you've been you made a conscious decision to go pro a long time before me and so a year ago we sat down in this thing I was like what does it look like to go pro and you made a

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decision that day to take this seriously. I think we've all got like the date we started posting and the date we took it serious. Um for me the like I've been posting for a long time. Getting serious felt like a big commitment. um you know, hours and you scripts and I didn't know if I was going to like it or if it was necessarily going to work. Um I think the first decision we want to make is like what's the goal? Is my goal to build a big audience or is my goal to grow my business? Um my audience is tiny

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compared to many and we're kind of crushing. >> Dude, you're one of the highest paid coaches. >> Well, yeah. And like and like frankly, we like we took media seriously from like you we started YouTube in March. We've been sold out for five or six months in a row and it's like everything's sold out. There's nothing left to sell. >> Uh, and I'm much less interested in going viral than I am selling out. >> And so I think that's a like what do you

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want out of this >> is the first decision to make. Like I don't need to be famous on the internet. I just need to >> Yeah. known well not well known. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I mean most people you've everybody's heard this. Most people would rather be the person dead in the casket than the one giving the eulogy at a funeral. So just starting is literally pulling out your phone and hitting that record button. And I'll give everybody a hack. You're allowed to record and never post.

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>> Yeah. >> And my phone is filled with video clips of things that I've thought about and shot and recorded that have never seen the light of day because that was the reps I was getting. Like I've been posting on social media for 11 years. I went eight years of posting every week. I never missed a week. I made a commitment to get to 100,000 followers. Eight years. But then I made the decision that Taki talked about where I was like, "Hey, I really want to support the work I have, the book I wrote."

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>> Um, and I went from 100,000 followers to today, you said six, we're at 8.8 million. And what changed is just I increased the volume. Like people think it's a hack and we can talk about some tactics, but it was it's like everything. It's how much how many reps like and not even reps because I think a lot of people live the same life 20 years in a row. It's how many iterations. >> Like I used to brag and I used to show like oh yeah I spend two days a quarter to produce all my content for YouTube.

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>> That's why I had eight 100,000 subs after eight years. whereas I change it to let's treat it like like a craft and like focus on mastery. And that's where the 8.8 million came from. But it all starts by hitting record and then publish. And I think that if anybody's listening to this and they're like, "It's time for me to up my game." Just publish more and that will create a forcing function for you to get better. If a founder is listening to this and they're playing that argument

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in their head and they're saying, "This sounds fantastic. However, I'm challenged with time, money, people, resources, confidence, and experience." When people are sitting there with these thoughts in their minds, >> what would be an intervention you would get like to give them right now to help remind them of what's at stake? >> Yeah. So, I think the time money, we can talk about that. I think the ROI that people miss out on is the thing that nobody gets. So, uh, this time last year, we were posting

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a little bit, but pretty ads dependent. 60 grand a month on ads. Not massive compared to some, but a lot. Uh, and we'd work really hard to, you know, fill out the programs. This year, we're like every single month is four or five times last year. It's like it's a big difference. And the ad spend, like a big month for us this year would be $8,000. Like our biggest month, like it's embarrassing. Like, don't judge. It's true. >> Like organic because of the content.

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Yeah. >> It's like such a game changer. >> Like I I am I've never been more clear that this is the like it's the now. It's the future. I'm all in on this thing. There is not a bigger opportunity in front of any business owner. If you want to like, yes, you're scared. I don't care. You want your business to grow. Get on the camera. Do the stuff. >> I'll use the Dubai chocolate example. Okay. This woman created a chocolate bar that she made when she was pregnant

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because she had like cravings for a certain type of chocolate bar and she just used social media to post it. Okay, most people don't realize this, but I'm leaving Singapore and I see the original Dubai chocolate booth. >> And if nobody's ever had one or heard of this, they're $35 a piece chocolate bars. I spent $175 on the this the fivepack, okay? And I brought them here. I'll give you some later because of Tik Tok. And what happened is it was just such a incredible story of a mother that

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wanted a craving and it was just the visual of it and people latched on to it and they did reviews and they're like, I got the bar and it was because it was $35. It was so ridiculous. Now the product delivered. Okay, I don't know if it's worth $5 a bite, but it's delicious. And when I look at that as an example that people can look at or Gym Shark that went from 0 to 500 million in revenue 100% on content or you know my favorite example recently is these three friends that have been building a tree

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fort and they use like they've been doing Tik Tok and they have 400,000 followers and they go every day to the river to build this fort and the the the story and they naturally these 12 13year-old boys naturally have created this storyline that has me coming back every day going did they post did they build the floor where are they at and I just like that is the future this this interest graft of post what you are passionate about share your your intrigues share the process because I think that's what a lot of people make

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the mistake in content they wait till they're good to share share the process of getting good because that's what will inspire people like I'm not inspired based on the size of the thing you've accomplished I'm inspired by where you started. >> Yeah. >> If you tell me you are scared to death to post content and the next day you post your first video, I will celebrate you like somebody else getting 10 million followers on YouTube because that's what's inspiring to me. If you

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think about the notion that people have a fear of being seen as an expert, uh how can they deal with that? Let's say someone wants to start making content, but then >> Do you think they've got a fear of being seen as an expert or a fear of being seen as not an expert? >> They've got a fear of being seen as not an expert. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, so if you are an expert, like frankly, don't pretend to be an expert if you aren't. That's first thing. And so to

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your point, share the learning and the process and the journey of getting there. Um, it's okay to be like, uh, you know, day 35 of learning how to X. That's a completely legit strategy. So, if you're not good yet, share the journey, what you're learning, how you're getting there. I think that's great. Um, and the journey of interviewing people and like learning the stuff. But I think what's wrong with the industry, all the, you know, this famous fame industry is people saying

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they're good and not being. >> What do you guys think is more interesting having had made it and having a success story to share with others or someone who's at the beginning of the journey who's trying to figure it all out? I >> I I got to this one bugs you. I literally in the last week have met with one guy sold his company for 800 million. Another guy just did a billion in revenue. Another guy, you know, like nine figure CEOs. Okay. And they all waited until they made it. And if you

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watch their content, it's not getting distribution. And the reason why is when you look at their videos and you look them in the eyes, you don't believe that they believe what they're saying. >> And that has nothing to do with accomplishment or achievements. And what I've discovered, the thing that I can be with high conviction about is whatever I did. Like I can't, nobody can like, oh yeah, you didn't live that life. That just happened. I'm not saying you'll get

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the same result. I'm not even saying this is the right way to do it. I'm just reporting on my life. And if you find use in that, game on. And if you want to argue with me with my my interpretation of experience of life, that's silly because like it is me. But I think most people just don't even think about it. Like there's no argument. Am I an expert? I'm just telling you that I was confused about this and I read this book and it taught me this thing and I got this result and if it works for you,

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it's yours. And that's where these people that have these big achievements can't resonate with their audience. They're also living up here. You see this in comedy. I remember I think it was Ellen came out with a new special and um I think it was Seinfeld said to her, "You got to be careful that your jokes resonate with people that aren't at your level because you've been living in this like makebelieve land." And a lot of people have a hard time starting with the beginner's mind. I know I

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struggle with that. >> Yeah, of course. >> And I think most people don't realize that if you actually want to have impact and get customers, you you want to come down. >> You got to talk to where they're at, not where they're at, of course. So, it's like if anything, don't be worried about not being seen as an expert. Your gift could be the fact that you can speak to people that are not experts and the experts can judge the crap out of your wild ways of explaining things and then

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you become the hottest thing because everybody resonates with, you know, that's what Howard Stern is so great. You know what I mean? Like there's all these examples of people that are not geniuses or experts or highly accomplished. They just know how to meet people where they're at. And I think that is a skill that folks like myself that's technical, you know, I'm a software and AI guy that I had a hard time when it came to creating content. I was speaking over the heads of my

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audience. >> That's the difference between like how to and how I content >> like how to like is it the internet's a very preachy place like seven steps to this. here's how you must like it feels very preachy but how I did or how I am doing I think that's super attractive and so a lot of our content some of it's like how to like how we did this thing but a lot of it is here's what we just did here's what a client did here's what I'm going through right now um and to

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your point before about sharing the journey like once a month I do a debrief of the month before vid on YouTube it's not great for new followers but my existing audience like it takes them deep fast and it's like here's the real real Instagram is like a bunch of like perfect people who's got it all together and this is what's actually going on. It's epic. >> When when you talk about what you're saying here around doing a recap for your current fan base, something I'd

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like to know around how you guys think about this, how much of what the content you should be creating is for a new audience that doesn't yet exist versus an old audience who's waiting for the next update in your story. >> Yeah. Well, I have the privilege of working with some incredibly smart people on my media team, and they taught me this acronym called CCN. >> CCNC. >> CCN. I think they got it from Patty Galloway. So, I want to give credit to Patty who's a genius. He worked with

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Beast in the early days and he's like a YouTube architect, >> but it's the uh casual is it casual core new? >> Yeah. So, it's the core. So, that's your core customer. So, that's the smallest one. You just talked about your fans. There's the casual. They know of you. They plug in some sometime. But then there's the new and great content that has the ability to serve people and also get new eyeballs interested. Yeah. >> Has to address the new. So even the way

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you talk about it and you think about the ideation like all the stuff we just talked about about just recording and the how I versus the how-to, those are all same process. Entertainment, education, inspiring, >> but also just picking topics. That is such a missed opportunity for people where they talk about things. It's like the weather. The weather's really broad, but it's not deep, right? Like, so you got to think about how do you present an idea in a way that could go to new and

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you have an example of how someone can frame that for themselves? >> Yeah, it depends what they're teaching. But like if I'm Sarah and I make pies, then the new is probably going to be like how to make the crust, right? Like because it's broad and it's people that bake and the core might then then I might be like the crust, but inside the video, that's where I'm going to go deep, right? So that I can still create value for my core audience and then the casual folks. So, it's kind of like how

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you package your content and it's just not something I think unless you do it a lot and you really have the desire to impact a lot of people that you would even try to figure out. But that's the framework the team uses. >> Dan, you've talked about this and before we come back to you, Taki, Dan, we we you've talked about how the packaging of a piece of content is more important than the content itself, such as the thumbnail really pulls the weight potentially of pulling people into the

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video. What's your thoughts on the effort that goes into the thumbnail, the post edit, the actual core material itself, and which one's more important than the other? >> Well, the answer is yes. [laughter] Right? Are you like, if you make the world's best video, but the title and thumbnail and the intro don't get people to click, then nobody saw it. And so, did you really make the impact you wanted to make? No. So, it needs work. And if your title and thumbnail and your intro is great and your video is

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then you just, you know, you got a million people to find out you're not good yet. Neither one of those is great. I think um I've been much more focused on what I want to say than what they like what the the research says I should talk about. And there's pros and cons to that. Uh for me, this thing needs to be sustainable. If I could do it every day for the next 10 years or, you know, every week for the next 10 years, then I will. And if I'm like talking about stuff I don't care about because the

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research said I had to, I'm just not going to play that game. And that means it'll grow slower. But it means I'll last longer. Um, in the last three or four months, I've started to think about the packaging side. It's really important. And it's the difference between a video popping off and a video getting just your core fans. I think they both matter. I think um for me I'm always torn between doing what the you know best practice is and doing what I actually care about and

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want to say and if I have to choose I'm going to do the what I want to do uh at the expense of getting a bit discovered but that's personal preference you know I'm not for me it's a it's a vehicle for expression more than it's a vehicle for audience and influence and I just know that if I do this long enough I'm going to get the people I want, but but it will take longer than >> I I will say what you said. It's like it's not more important. It's literally

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50/50. >> Yeah, agree. >> Right. And the team and I, we look at it as like we have this ven diagram of validated and interested. So validated is us verifying that topics that that we also I'm interested. So that's to your point, Taki. I do not create content. I'm not emotionally connected to unfortunately because I'm such a tech nerd. Uh talking about how the different large language models kind of interoperate in MCP servers and some really deep technical stuff I find on

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hugging face. [laughter] >> Okay. >> Um uh very interested uh zero validated. So >> validation for those listening is actually doing the research to see what are the concepts that have and within. So we have this rule it's like 4x4. So, it's like a 4x outlier on. Let's say if I go to your channel and I see a video that's got a lot of views, it has to have a 4x more average views than your other views. So, that's the four. And then within the last four months to the

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point that everybody keeps talking about, the interest graph because the the culture actually shifts that frequently. >> So, a video that popped off more than four months ago, it could maybe still be validated but lower likelihood. So, our rule is four by four. That's the validated ven diagram. Then there's the Dan's what he's interested in. So that is actually the craft that the team has developed to package. So that's like the overlap. And then you got to think about the packaging which

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is the title for sure. But it's it's literally the title, the thumbnail, the hook, the um and then when you get into the content, I mean I don't want to nerd out too because I know you want to go into that, but it's like sound design pacing. Well, well, you know what I love is is studying mastery. So, the way I got good at this when I went pro is I just I found the best in the world. So, everybody, if you ask like who's the best in the world on YouTube, answer is >> Mr. Beast.

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>> There you go. Okay. So, the good news is Mr. Beast has been generous enough to communicate exactly how he thinks of YouTube. Yeah. >> On every video. You want to watch the Joe Rogan interview, you want to watch the Colin Samir interview, you want to watch the whatever people ask him the same questions, he gives the same answers and he talks about the core metric is average view duration retention and then he breaks apart his philosophy on like road mapping and pacing and open loops and and if you

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watch >> dude's a master. >> Yeah. Remember my kid, he's like 12 and he goes because he wanted to study Mr. Beast and he goes, "Well, if Mr. Beast told everybody how to do it, why isn't everybody doing it?" effort. >> It's It's literally comes down to effort. It's not easy. If you look at the amount of things you have to do, right? But to Taki's point earlier, it's the difference between 5,000 views, 50,000 views, 500,000 views, 5 million

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thou 5 million views. Like, and that is in my world where we're like in it and dedicated to it. We're always trying to push into the half a million to 5 million level. And that 100%. Yes, the product has to be great. You have to be interested, committed, and you have to know how to talk. But the packaging has to >> They don't click. They don't watch you. They don't watch. They don't get value. Um, counterargument. Who's the greatest YouTuber of all time? 50/50 split. Mr. Beast clearly

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fantastic, but Casey's the goat. >> Uh, and a completely different strategy. >> You're talking about Casey Neistad. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to I think last time we >> That's the reason I'm here. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> But go ahead. Okay, so Casey's the goat. Super different strategy. His his like daily vlog every day for 800 days at the time the peak. Um at no time I saw this amazing interview with Casey um with Colin and Samir and they said, "What's

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your take on the state of the creator economy?" He goes, "Well, I resent the fact that you use the word creator economy. I think there's a lot of economy and there's no creators." Um at no point in Mr. Beast's career did he say, "My goal is to make the best YouTube videos." He was like, "I want to be the biggest YouTuber." and he's killing that game. Uh, I don't want to play that game. Casey's strategy is like, I'm going to go out to New York

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City every day and find what's interesting. I'm going to tell that story. That's the game I'm playing. Um, and so I just think you just got to figure out what game you want to play. Um, like mad respect. Like you and Sam just do the most incredible job. And I just don't want to play that game. So, for someone listening to this right now, people might align either way here and that's okay. >> And there's lessons to do from both, right? Like there's this app YouTube

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Studio. Yeah, I deleted it. That's the one that tells you how your videos go because otherwise you're posting stuff and you're like you're doing what the algorithm wants you to do instead of what you want to do. >> When someone's listening to this and they're like, "Okay, I side either way." You're saying that both can work essentially. And I've seen Casey crush and I've seen Jimmy crush. >> Are there other methods or are there kind of >> I'm sure there's like a thousand

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methods. It's called formats. So in the world of media and if you think of like Netflix shows or TV shows, there's formats, right? There's the, >> you know, 48. Yeah. This is a format. You have like the career ladder people might have seen is a format. The, you know, Mr. Beast, the one versus uh a million is a format. So like there's these >> Oh, yeah. He like rotates through fi five different thematics. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and and when you find a format that works, you want to address

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it. I mean survivor is a format that was applied to the apprentice the you know real housewives a format so like >> fear factor >> fear factor they're all formats so like once you see that movies are formats right there's honestly only like seven highlevel storytelling you know formats >> like the hero's journey kind of thing >> exactly you know and within that there's like strangers of strange lost in a strange land and there's like the blah blah blah so

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the the big thing is is Casey's format was a format and I would say in modern times there's a bodybuilder named Sam Hulich that has replicated that and and maybe he's even brought it to a different level where it's super chill him in his car. But Sam will also tell you he watched all the creators and he found a way to Taki's point that worked for him. >> Yeah, that's the most important thing. >> And he listened to his community and he realized, oh, when I do the posing and I

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talk about this, they like it. Because he was reading the comments. So yeah, he just, okay, let me do a little of this. and he and he just tweaked the format >> to him but he still was informed by the audience and I think >> that you know there's another format like the guy that does the ice bath he did it for thousand days he just recently hit his thousandth day he he finished okay he did an ice bath every day shared some wisdom and just kind of told everybody have an amazing day he

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was done and this new kid that's 20 took over yeah it's really cool and and there was no like baton handoff it was just like the kid was like oh my god there's a gap in market. I'll keep doing it. [laughter] >> And all those people were like, I'm going to follow him. >> And I just think that is the creative process is find the thing you're willing to do for a long period of time that you're emotionally connected to. And I believe your audience will feel the

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energy that you put into the work. Period. Full stop. That's always been the way. That's how music is produced. That's how screenplays are produced. That's how content should be created. And there isn't any one way, but there is a methodology to get to that way. Now, when you think about these different methods or frameworks or modalities, when someone's asking themselves the question, well, how do I find mine? I'm not quite sure where to look. Should they start or should they

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strategize and figure it out first? I mean, either or both. I think I started with uh a really simple format, which is Taki teaches cool thing in short period of time, right? So, it's like 10 minutes, >> five key points, and I'm just like this is what I taught in black belt. I'm going to create the YouTube version of that. And that's a super easy format to >> and that was just an idea that you liked and you were like I'm gonna >> Well, it's what I was doing like I could

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do it for an hour and a half with my clients or I could do it in 15 minutes for YouTube. It's the same stuff. I'm just going to pull some bits out. So that's like a super easy format. Um and so that's one of my formats on rotation. Um to your point, if you've only got one format, you know, I think it there's an opportunity for you to every format works until it doesn't. >> Yeah. >> And so having you know what what works and then your 20% like experimentation

00:29:05 - 00:30:06

zone is great. So uh uh for me it was start with teach uh had a format that I started on short form like seven years ago and now I've brought to YouTube which is interview my cool clients when we're together coaches getting coffee sounds a lot like comedians in cars getting coffee only there's no cars um [laughter] jokes >> yeah just way less jokes >> but that's a format right so I've just gone that worked here let's bring it to my my space um monthly debrief that's a

00:29:35 - 00:30:21

format And so I'm you're better at sticking to formats than me. I get bored pretty quick. >> I have a team that tell >> Yeah, 100%. [laughter] >> Yeah, that's true. So I think um everything in business is a game of hotter or colder. Like you know when you're a kid and you're with your brothers or your sisters and one of you hides a thing and you go out looking for it like you're getting colder. Oh, it must be more this way. Warmer, warmer, warmer. That's all this thing is. And

00:29:59 - 00:30:48

whether it's through the data or through, you know, pride and gut feel, we're just going what's most me and what's most them and getting closer. Um, so I think you can just like look at all the different formats. You just watch TV and go, okay, if I had to pause this, what's the format I'm seeing here? What's my version of that? It's just like what are all the ingredients? What order does it make sense in? And have a go. Yeah, I'm I'm a fan like you mentioned earlier before we started

00:30:23 - 00:31:29

about authenticity and the mental model I think about for helping creators create creativity [laughter] CCC new framework name um >> is to actually look at who they are >> when they're not on >> so like >> in private >> my rule is there is a way you act with your college friends you probably have a group chat >> and if you want to tell me who you really are. Let me come hang out with you and let me read your group chat. And within that context, because that is

00:30:56 - 00:31:47

uniquely who you are and what you're interested in, is there a format of something you naturally do? So, you're either going to find it to Taki's point, you watch what you watch because you find it interesting and you do your flavor of that, or you look at the crazy. So, for example, I do a format with young men because I mentor them and I've been doing that forever. And the team just said, "Hey, can we record that?" And I was like, "Well, you got to do it in a way that doesn't feel

00:31:22 - 00:32:09

invasive because like I'm talking to them, you know, heartto-he heart. I don't the camera's going to mess that up." And it took a few iterations, but we finally found a way to do that that still felt authentic and there was time for us to have the conversation. And that ended up being a format that just took off. A lot of people know me for that, but they don't realize that that was just who I was before. We just took something I was doing that I was passionate about and then said, can this

00:31:45 - 00:32:33

be a format? So, I think most people have their weird little like I'm a little, you know, I love this thing and it's like, okay, why don't you teach business concepts by your baking? >> Yes. >> And they're like, what? It's like, yeah, you dude. I talked to my buddy Dave and I've known him for years and we're on a hike, okay, and I hang out with him all the time and then all of a sudden he just makes a comment that he cooks pasta every night for his wife. I did not know

00:32:09 - 00:32:59

you could even cook. let alone pasta. And then he goes off on this like super deep scientific expression of his love for p pasta. >> And I was like, you are so wild that you're trying to create content and try to be like everybody else when that is the most unique thing about you. >> Dude, that's so good. That's so good. I think the pairing of what you want to talk about with you. I had saw this interview with Caleb Rolston. He's a legend. >> Legend. What a good guy.

00:32:34 - 00:33:25

>> Um and he was talking about branding and his definition of branding is like a deliberate pairing of two concepts. And he said when I wanted to get healthy, uh, the thing I wanted to do was walks. And the thing he loved that he wanted to pair it with was um, Starbucks sugary drinks and podcasts. So he starts with I'm going to go for a walk with the podcast to Starbucks and get a sweet drink and come back. And then that got him started and then he ditched the sweet drinks and then he ditched the

00:32:59 - 00:33:58

podcast. Now he walks. And so this idea of like pairing what you naturally do with what you want to talk about. I I felt really stale maybe six months ago with my content. Like Taki teaches cool thing in short format is okay, but like I hate being inside. I'm like, like being stuck in my studio looking at a computer is not my happy place. And so I'm like, okay, well, what would happen if I took this show out on a mini adventure? So now all my content is out and about. Why? Because that's where I'm

00:33:28 - 00:34:19

happy. It's the same content, but I'm at the beach or I'm riding my Super 73 or I'm in the Land Rover or sitting on your roof. Well, dude, this is where we were on his bikes, his Super 73, and I told him, we tested a format because I'm always on a scooter when I do my one-on- ones where we rigged up these GoPros and whatever to try to capture it. Now, it didn't work. I still want to revisit it. I fight with the team all the time. Like, I think that cuz there's something

00:33:53 - 00:34:49

magical about like a coach on an ebike talking about stuff and just like >> especially if they crash. Oh, dude. It's there's so much opportunity to create conflict and issues and and I just think that's where most businessy people would be like, I would never want to make people know about that. And I'm like, that's your opportunity to stand out. Your your most unique like the world of interest is connected to your interest. >> Yeah. That's big. >> You don't hide that.

00:34:23 - 00:35:15

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It reminds me of Casey Neistad. One of my favorite videos is him just zooming around on his skateboard. >> Exactly. He's not really saying much. always did that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, how can people better take check of what might be interesting in their life and how do they identify what is and is not interesting? Like how do they find these formats and test them in a way um where they're not wasting too much time? >> Well, I think that the the funny thing

00:34:48 - 00:35:33

people who aren't posting a lot are really scared that like what if it what if it's awful and everybody hates it. The truth is because of the algorithm, if you post something that's not good, nobody sees >> nobody sees it. >> So, you're fine. >> And guess what? You can hit archive. you can hit archive. Um, so I'd go like what do I want to talk about that my people need? And that's probably like umbrella topic and then like three sub problems is an easy way to think about that. Uh,

00:35:09 - 00:36:03

and then in terms of formats, um, you know, there's like the structural format, like what's the segments in a in a show, but then there's like to your point, is there a ladder, is there a bicycle, is there coffee, like what goes on in your daily life. I I can't remember her name. She's on Instagram and she does um super useful content around creating content while she's cooking. Have you seen that? >> Not that one. >> Oh my gosh. But I think um going what do I want to talk about and what would make

00:35:37 - 00:36:34

this fun for me because like in my world coaches people don't buy coaching, they buy coaches. And the only way they can decide if you're their coach is if a little bit of you shows up. I don't care about your knowledge. I want to like I want to vibe with you. When you think about the relationship between someone who's trying to produce content and their audience, how much cue should they take from what their audience do and don't like and how much of that is their own liking? Like what

00:36:06 - 00:36:57

I'm saying here is let's imagine you're a comedian and there's jokes you want to tell, but the audience laugh at the se at the segments that you don't think are funny. Like how how much of it is adapting yourself to the audience versus the other way around? I think Sam would Sam would say do what works. >> Yeah. Sam Sam for those is my creative director. He it's and I mean this is the thing is if you want to be a comedian that has a commercial career, >> right?

00:36:32 - 00:37:19

>> Telling jokes that nobody laughs at and nobody books you isn't a winning strategy. >> Not great. >> So to Taki's point earlier, what's the goal? If the goal is to get leads of people that want to pay you faster, then you might want to take some feedback. But I will I'll give everybody a really tactical thing that it still surprises me that people don't do. >> Okay? >> The best content to create is content that your paying customers are asking

00:36:56 - 00:37:42

you >> a million%. >> Like it's so wild, dude, that people are like, "Okay, well, how do I know what to talk about?" Do you have people that current you paid you? Yeah. How many clients you have? 800. Okay. Call them. Ask them before they bought from you. What questions did they have about the problem you helped solve? And when you're with them, ask them, "Hey, what's currently going on in your life that you're struggling around the thing I helped you with?" Write those down.

00:37:18 - 00:38:01

Create content around that. Why? Because you end up attracting people that had the kind of problems of the people that were willing to pay that. Dude, like I did this once. I had like I don't know 35 clients, my high-end group, and I was coaching them. And at the beginning, I said, "Okay, everybody write down top three challenges." And everybody wrote down top three challenges. And then I went one at a time, and I said, "Give it to me." And I wrote it on a board. And when I was done, it was like three pages

00:37:39 - 00:38:30

of a flip chart. I took pictures >> and I texted it. >> That's the content plan. >> And then they all said, "Well, what are we doing with that?" I said, "Oh, I sent that to Sam cuz that's what he uses to drive all of his content strategy because I love you guys and these are really like, dude, that problem right there I would have never come up with." And that's the input. Where did I get that? Lululemon. So, back in the day, Lululemon's a fashion brand that's kind of fallen from

00:38:05 - 00:38:49

grace a little bit, but they're big. And I remember with my I was with my wife. She was shopping and she's trying on clothes. And every time she came out, she would make a comment this boom boom boom. And the person that was helping her went to the blackboard and wrote it down. >> It was next to the change rooms. >> You're kidding me. >> No, this and I think it's they still do it today. And at the end of the day, the store manager takes a picture of the blackboard and ships it to the product

00:38:28 - 00:39:20

designers. >> Wow. I'm like, how do you not do that as a business? How do you not like work backwards from the people you love to work with and only serve them and create content for them? Because A, you're probably excited about that and B, it's going to attract more people. The biggest mistake you could make, especially if you're starting in content, is to create an audience of people you hate. My buddy Noah literally said to me once, he goes, "I hate my customers." And I said, "Why?" He goes,

00:38:54 - 00:39:45

"They're whiny. They're this. They're that." I said, "Bro, have you ever looked at the content? You attract what you use to impress. You talking about your crypto trades and your flashy stuff and you and how e how easy it is to make money and you think that those people are going to come in ready to roll up their sleeves and do the hard work and you're mad at them for what you say. That's a you thing, not them. >> It sounds like uh almost false advertising, you know, or false uh

00:39:19 - 00:39:59

>> it's right advertising, but it's attracting the wrong dude. >> That Yes. Yeah. And I think it's it's it's critical because I've experienced this as well where I'm like, man, I'm I'm starting to attract a lot of uh >> Yeah. Always look upstream though. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Alex Herozi says that you can either sell something cheap to a lot of people, but he says it's better to sell something expensive to a few people. When you're thinking about

00:39:39 - 00:40:32

the team, before we get to the monetization that help you structure your teams and how you produce content, >> yeah, >> every great creator I'm seeing now not only has one or two people, but they have a small team. What are the roles that matter first and which ones should wait? >> Yeah. So, let's preface this by saying you are six years ahead of me in this journey and so you're going to be able to talk about like how it evolves. >> Um I was chatting with Caleb about this

00:40:06 - 00:40:47

and he's like he doesn't have like you always hire this guy first and that guy first and that guy third. >> You're talking about Caleb Relson. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And he's like so what's the bottleneck right now? And you hire for bottleneck. um to start with it's probably some dude with a camera. You know what I mean? Like to be super honest like that's where it's art. Someone who can like shoot and edit. That's a great place to start. Uh my

00:40:25 - 00:41:22

team is tiny around this stuff. Uh Tony on my team, she and I jam on topics and then I build it. Uh I make my own thumbnails uh cuz I love to draw them. I'm nerdy. Uh but then uh Sean shoots and edits and >> did you do you saw we ran into Sean at the gym this morning? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. It was so crazy. He like comes over and we're like, "Oh, that's wild. >> That's crazy." Serendipity. >> I don't know if he was there by accident or he's like, "I bet they'll [laughter]

00:40:55 - 00:41:46

be at the gym. I'm going to hang out." >> No, it was by accident because we swap gyms. Yeah. >> Um Yeah. Yeah. So, my team is that it's me plus shooter editor >> and someone to think about um about, you know, what to talk about and she's looking at the numbers. Actually, that's not true. Michael's also involved, >> you know, on the the post and the on the social side of things, but my team's little, >> but my whole team's little >> and you really play to your strengths.

00:41:20 - 00:41:56

You're really good at doodling, drawing, illustrating, conceptualizing. >> The word really good isn't the right word. >> No, you're exceptional, >> dude. He's Mosart. >> Yeah, >> it's wild. Yeah. You're like, [laughter] >> "Yeah, I'm Crayola Mozart." >> Leonardo da Vinci when it comes to diagrams. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's also like if you think back to the packaging conversation, like

00:41:38 - 00:42:21

if you jump on YouTube and you search for your topic, >> everybody's stuff looks the same, >> right? You're trying to stand out by being different. >> Well, I'm trying to stand out by being me. But yeah, I mean, how many people are scribbling with their iPad and posting that as a thumbnail? Like nobody. Okay. >> And how many people have the skill to do it? Not a lot. So that's Taki's authentic creative, you know what I mean? Like those are the things that a

00:42:00 - 00:42:56

lot of people, to your point, they don't look at what parts they can bring an elevated creative experience to. And that would be a mistake to miss that opportunity to to to differentiate. >> Yeah, agree. Like I'm looking at this bookshelf here right now. There's lots of different books and lots of different colors. My eyes going to that blue one. >> There we [laughter] go. As it should. Um, what I will add to this is, um, you know, I have a team on the media side that's about, I think, 12 or 13 just on

00:42:28 - 00:43:19

like content. We have channel owners. And it's it's it's a real production. Every time you come back here, it seems like your team multiplies. >> Yeah. Both both in numbers and physically cuz, you know, they're all on meal prep. Yeah. They're all macros. Yeah. And creatine plus and all that. No, I'm just kidding. Um, but you know, recently I had a conversation with my buddy Allan who Taki knows >> and he he's my trainer and he trained me for probably six or seven months. See

00:42:53 - 00:43:45

what I did there? Anyways, and I'm part of the culture. >> The uh the conversation was who do I hire first? So my philosophy because there's a whole lot of things I consider for me is I need to especially because it's such a personal position. You got understand they're they're there watching you fumble. They're >> Oh, dude. >> It's it's like they're in your space. You know, some most people are going to like invite them into their home. They're going to be around their

00:43:20 - 00:44:13

friends. They're going to be around their business part. So, like first rule, you have to want to want to be with them. Like, I don't care how talented they are. If you're just like you don't vibe with them, move on. So, I told Allan, I said, "Here's the deal. There's a bunch of kids, not a bunch, sorry. There are a handful of kids in college at companies that are young and the young the reason why young is actually important is because for you as a busy entrepreneur you need somebody is

00:43:46 - 00:44:39

more available like there's a guy on my team named optin you know it is it's pronounced au anyways optin somebody asked him like what is your qualification to be always with Dan he said my capability is my availability like he's like because I always answer the phone I always show up so and that's hard for people with families and commitment so I like I told Allan, call the colleges, ask for the professor that's teaching media and say who's the two kids in your class that if you could

00:44:12 - 00:45:08

start a company, you would want those two kids to be part of the team. Well, great question. >> That's what Allan did. >> And guess what? The first guy didn't work out. That's okay. Go to the second one. The second one got him a six million view video, added 20,000 followers. When I started working with like training with him, but he only had 800. His name's Allan Dick Dy Cck. So you guys can find I think it's coach Allan Dick or Allan. Yeah. And he had eight Yeah. 800 followers. Today he's

00:44:40 - 00:45:38

got to be close to 100,000 in the last year following exactly what we're talking about. But he found that person on his team that he could collaborate with that he empowered that they they do the shooting, they do the editing, they do the thumbnails, they you know and he he works with them and they build the infrastructure. And it's like that first person for me it's Sam. Like I I bought Sam his dream car not because I just buy people dream cars all the time because of what Sam did like as a partner what

00:45:09 - 00:46:00

we created together. So I love when I meet people that are like I'm you know this guy Sam and I hope someday he buys me a car. I go you should ask Sam what he did. Yeah. >> Cuz if you did what Sam did for me that guy would buy you a car. >> But I don't know if you got what it takes because it t it it literally needs to be a partner. It needs to be a relationship. It needs to there needs to be conflict. You got to fight for the truth. That's why like I keep deferring, you know, and talking nos is like, you

00:45:34 - 00:46:28

know, Dan's more consistent. I'm not. Sam is because >> how can I ask him to hit numbers and then cancel on him for shoots? >> Yeah. >> And that kind of stuff. Or how can I fight with him on formats when he's like, Dan, your scooter idea is stupid. I'm like, I love it. Let's run the play again. And every once in a while, he has this rule. I don't know where he got it, but it's like 70% is tried and tested. Like this works. 20% is kind of the the the new and then 10 is wild. 10 is wild.

00:46:01 - 00:46:48

>> 10 10 has to be wild because if not you have this thing again software it's called the local maxima. You get stuck in optimizing for the peak here and the only way to go to a higher peak you actually have to go through the valley to come down and try. So the 10% is we have to try wild ideas for formats for wild ideas for hooks wild like it has to be >> that's how you find the next breaks right. >> That's has to be different enough that you go through the valley to get to the

00:46:25 - 00:47:13

next peak. So when we look at our content plan, it's 70% 20% 10%. And that comes from having a partner that you hire. And so that's what Allan did and that's why I recommend everybody just find the person that holds the camera that's willing to take over the editing that's going to collaborate with you on the creative and together you guys go on this journey of trying to share what's inside. >> I think the most important thing is that they're obsessed. >> They have to be.

00:46:48 - 00:47:40

>> Yeah. like obsessed with making great, you know, great content, but obsessed with the platforms. And the other benefit of having a a young dude, dudet is, you know, culturally, I mean, I'm 49. Having someone who's younger and like understands the like the culture and is like obsessed with like that is super fantastic. And then the advantage we've got is we can like >> find who's the best at YouTube or the course for this and we just like pay for them to take the courses to implement it

00:47:14 - 00:48:10

for us. If nobody heard what Taki just said, this is the biggest upgrade. Most people that want to be good on content, they take the course. They hire the coach. No, no, no, no, no. When I hired Sam, I said, "Who are the creators you respect?" He gave me a list of 12. I personally reached out to the creators and said, "Who's your number two? I'd love to connect him with my guy. >> Here's all the internals. We're I'm I'm open book. Here's my SOPs." And that

00:47:42 - 00:48:36

started that conversation. And then I said, "Sam, who do you want to coach with?" Caleb Ralston was his coach. >> Like Sam went and found it. Dan invested in it in that person because I'm not going to go through all that stuff. I'm we're running companies. And I think that most people that get in the creative space don't realize investing in the creators is a force multiplier for leverage. >> I would agree with that. Like Cam behind the scenes here and the reason why this

00:48:10 - 00:49:09

podcast is doing so great is cuz he reached out to these people, Sam. So he spent a lot of time with Sam and he spent a lot of time with Caleb Rston. Uh and he's continuously investing in himself and and now is the team as well. When when you're trying to I guess create a frame for your team, what must a CEO think about do and how must they behave to create the space for their team to do what we're talking about? >> I don't know if I've got a lot to say. My team's little um and I'm still very

00:48:39 - 00:49:30

much in the middle of it. Um the only thing I'd start with and then you can if I come up with something genius after you share what's useful I would say often where the biggest bottleneck either because of availability or because of like I want to ride the scooter or whatever the thing is for me the thing that makes it work and if you're just getting started this is like it's very easy to avoid making content a date with a dude. I know that sounds super weird, but like Sean comes every

00:49:05 - 00:50:02

two weeks, every second Thursday, and we're going to shoot. And so I show up ready because Sean's there. And so like that that's the first thing. I'm sure you got a lot to say about this topic. >> Yeah. I mean, I love that because I learned personally I'll do more for other people than I'll ever do for myself. Back to the comment. It's like Sam had a goal of creating a top C. I remember we were in I remember the moment the time like I wanted to to have performance. I wanted to not waste our

00:49:33 - 00:50:28

time. I had no interest in being top anything. And we're on the treadmill right before we start working out at the hotel gym in Austin, Texas. And he's walking and this if you ever meet a big gorilla, okay? >> He just blurts out, why not number one? And I was like, "Number one, what?" He's like, "Why not just be number one?" And I go, "Who?" He goes, "You." I go, "In what?" He goes, "Content." I go, "I don't want to be." He's like, "I think

00:50:01 - 00:50:59

we should." And I'm like, "Oh man, Sam, why'd you say that?" Cuz as soon as he said it, I got the anxiety. And I started thinking and I made up all these stories about what it would take and what would it mean and d and I was like, and I kind of said, "F you, bro." And then 10 seconds later, I said, "Whatever you want, man. If you want that, I'm game to play." And that idea of collaborating with other people to create a forcing function for you to step up into their idea of you, a

00:50:30 - 00:51:30

forcing function. >> Yes. Yes. I think creating content is the ultimate personal development program. The ultimate one because it forces you to confront all of it. I'm worried I don't sound smart. I worry that people are going to make fun of my voice. I'm worried that I'm going to tell a story that isn't factual and two years people are going to come back and do an analysis and a takedown pit. all the crazy negative mindset stuff comes up and if you show up and you share the how I and you share the howto

00:50:58 - 00:51:43

and you just end up working through that but I would never have done it for me I needed it to be somebody else at the beginning Sam and then the team we've created and their goals and trust me the his team keeps coming to him and be like this is my dream car this is my Sam this is my dream car it'd be really cool if you got me that we did really good this year dream car you're creating a lot of pressure for us >> hey And and and guess what I >> Your dream skateboard. [laughter]

00:51:22 - 00:52:16

>> Yeah. And I do it on purpose cuz I'll tell you what got me going. When we were doing the podcast tour for the book and I would meet these creators like the people and then I would meet the real heroes >> and I'd never heard of that person and he's been there for seven years and he's the reason like for every Logan Paul he had an editor. And now Logan has talked about his other and he's well known, but like most creators never acknowledge and I'm just too much of a people person

00:51:49 - 00:52:39

where you know Sam. I want you to know Sam. It's pinned on my Instagram. I want you to see because I need you to ask the question, what did he do? Because I just think that's a that's a funner world to live in. It's like you have to step up and your team has to step up and then you get to create better content that the world gets to use. So that's that's kind of >> that's great, dude. Yeah, >> we were in Palm Springs a couple weeks ago for a boardroom event and Ali Abdal

00:52:15 - 00:53:00

is a client. He's a great guy. He's amazing at YouTube. Such a beautiful person. And we're chatting and he's he's asking about this launch he wants to do. And uh so I'm sitting down next to him. We're chatting away and Tony is sitting Yeah, that's the camera. Tony's over there on the couch opposite. She's like, "Hey, I got some thoughts." I'm like, "Chump on the couch." And she just killed it. She's like, "Okay." She's

00:52:37 - 00:53:20

like, "Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam." I'm so stoked. She goes, "I don't think this should be in the video." I'm like, "It 100% should be in the video." A, you're amazing and B, it helped him. And C, I want people to know that you're a gangster and that together we're a great squad. You know, it's killer to >> It is wild. Yeah. I'm noticing that a lot of founders are starting to do this. Like Steven Bartlett now portion of his

00:52:59 - 00:53:58

team are making content. >> Jay Wright. >> Jay Wright's team. >> So Jay got super inspired in Palm Springs, decided to go pro, just hired his Noah. He's awesome. just had their first video hit a million views. Chatting with them on the boat the other day and uh he was a like an all paid ads guy just to that point right at the start. Uh this video million views, 1,400 new followers would have cost him 20 grand in ads and it was a 15-inute video. Awesome. Uh but he's just got uh branded

00:53:28 - 00:54:32

Instagram accounts for his coaches in his team. And so he's building a team of Avengers model which a builds a bunch of you know depth um and b makes the whole thing a lot less founder dependent. >> What do you think is happening psychologically when you showcase your team not just yourself >> for whom? >> For the audience. >> I mean if they're good safety and confidence. >> I I actually have studied this quite a bit because when I look at you know formats you think of friends. Yeah,

00:54:00 - 00:54:53

think of John. >> Yeah. No, character development is a thing. And what's interesting is that it makes it more interesting. >> So Gary Vee and Drock >> 100%. >> I like Gary's a like of course I'm going to create my version of Drock called Sam. It's not create. It's just I never I've I deliberately to your point it's like you know if anything it's trying to get them to create content. We've all seen recently Sam finally tried to create content. Thank you Sam.

00:54:27 - 00:55:22

[laughter] You know well done. But um >> he's coming here I think uh next week. >> Oh good. >> Yeah. >> And it's one of those things where I think it creates depth. It creates trust. It creates belief. And actually that word belief if you ask me to summarize because people talk about positioning, they talk about brand, they talk about this. My rule for my media team is very simple. When we communicate written, email, video, short, long form, does it create belief? What kind of

00:54:54 - 00:55:53

belief? belief in me that I know what I'm talking about and I can help you. Belief in you that you can do it. Belief in the the future that we're trying to create. Like to me, that is the best frame to think about when we post this, does it add to the belief or does it take away from the belief because it's not consistent or it's out of left field or it's it's it's packaged wrong or there's just something off about it. And it just helps create a northstar for everybody. So if you do have different

00:55:24 - 00:56:18

people creating content, I would encourage to create a framework for them because if not it could feel patchy instead of align. So like we do have Arturo who's here who's head of media that reports to Sam. >> They're both creating content now. >> Well, it' be really weird if Sam posted a video with the same CCN framework that Arturo posted. So, I'm hoping they're talking behind the scenes to say like, I'm going to talk about this area, you talk about that area, and then that way

00:55:51 - 00:56:42

it's supportive to the whole mosaic of the picture we're trying to create. And I think that's a huge opportunity for for social. >> Taki, you talk about framework development as your superpower. And talking about frameworks, >> Taki, how do you teach that skill to your team so that they can dovetail into what you're doing in the way you like to do it? >> Yeah, so I do it with team and I do it with clients. Um, frameworks are super easy. If you're going to do something

00:56:17 - 00:56:58

more than once, let's have a system for it, right? Um, so it could be a a checklist. U, for me, it's like the process it started with, I'm going to run my first ever workshop. If we're going to have a workshop, we need a workbook. If we're going to have a workbook, we need worksheets. Crap. How do you make a worksheet? That's like that's how it actually happened. It's like, okay, well, what do I want to teach them? What are the steps? So, they just like dump out all the things and

00:56:37 - 00:57:27

then go, are there any we can delete? Because we usually try to say too much. And then, can we merge them together? and then we count them up and that gives us a certain number of steps and that's like okay we're going to have a two column worksheet or a three column worksheet or it's going to be you know three at the top and three at the bottom and so that's the process it's like what are all the steps what can we cut how can we pair them together and what's the sequence and then how do we deliver that

00:57:01 - 00:57:57

uh I think having frameworks for a an episode is super important to me so like every book has like a beginning a middle and an But then we get to like, you know, we get to flex those. So there's like there's a a problem, there's an introduction, there's there's a hook, there's a like you think about comedians and cars getting coffee. The scenes are um uh Jerry introduces the car which sets up the person. Then he's in the car driving to the person. That's like act

00:57:30 - 00:58:09

two. Then he then there's the arrival where they meet. That's act three. Then there's there on the way to the coffee shop, act four. Then there's the coffee shop conversations. And then there's the way home and the goodbye. So that's like that's the format. if just go what's the narrative I want people to see and then we can obsess on like what are the three things which happen in this box and that box and this box and you've got an episode. >> Now if I were to sit with you and your

00:57:49 - 00:59:00

teams right now what are some of the live challenges that you're facing and how are you proactively solving them behind the scenes that's maybe not public yet. I would say it's what we've been talking about like even this morning at the gym, you know, and it's it's the constant friction like great creative output is friction, right? It's tension. It's I know it's got to work for the audience, but I this is really what I want to do. >> Yeah. So I'm always pushing them because

00:58:24 - 00:59:07

that's that is the job of the leader is to create a vision that doesn't exist that should exist and and and so I I just keep saying here's the mountain top. This is the mountain top. We're not even we're we're three steps up the mountain top out of 10. Your job is to get to the mountain top. I don't know how we're going to get there but I'm going to hold this. I'm going to hold this vision to a truth and I've been there and I'll describe it to you. And

00:58:46 - 00:59:49

don't tell me we can't. Come back to me. Research it. Get on the phone. Talk to your coaches. do the re like get watch more like because that is always going to be the friction for me is I want to create things that I'm proud of. I want to push the art. The moment Sam said why not number one and I went through the reasons why I didn't want to be number one. One of those reasons was I know what it takes and it requires you to push the art form and to be an innovator and that's brain cells and cycles and

00:59:18 - 01:00:16

but that's hey you want it I'm going to play a game and this is what I tell them. So the friction is is interested versus validated. It's >> here's what I'm currently interested in. I spend 97% of my time on building I just showed you one of our prototypes AI companies. My content isn't 97% AI stuff. It's gotten better in the last few months, but I've been doing AI for seven years, and for a long time, it was never even mentioned. That's a problem for me. So, I just continuously go back

00:59:47 - 01:00:42

to the team and say, here's my vision for how and how I want my life to look, right? Because I'm a big like integration, not balance. So, you know, this year I'm traveling the world with my family. We're calling world schooling and I run one of the largest personal brands online with a media team. That's been wild to logistically and organize. So that that's the friction right now is how do we continue to do things in a distributed remote way and also produce things that we feel like we're pushing

01:00:14 - 01:01:06

the art form, not just repeating the same thing. >> And you were sharing before we started shooting that uh you're as you're traveling the world right now, your team flies out and meets you wherever you're at every five weeks. >> Yeah. I call it quantum entanglement. [laughter] >> Can you explain quantum entanglement? I'm a software guy. In the world of software, there's a thing called pair programming. Pair pair pair pair p I r pair programming. Pair programming is

01:00:42 - 01:01:34

two people looking at the code. One drives, the other one talks. And it's a way to reduce your bugs and defects and and train people up. >> What do you mean by driving and talking? >> One person's coding. Tap tap tap. The other one is watching the code and talking with them about like, I think we should do this. I think we should do that. So there's always two eyes >> like a rally car driver and co-pilot. >> Yep. And the only way to do remote pairing because you can technically is

01:01:08 - 01:02:00

to have them come together at least once every three months. That's my philosophy. So even in teams and most of my companies I've built in my life have been distributed. They the teams always came together once every quarter to do the quantum entanglement to be able to go back and have the shortorthhand and the trust and the confidence. And I think for a lot of teams that have like I have an editor that lives in this country and I have a a script writer that lives here and I they've never met

01:01:33 - 01:02:34

in person. That's wild. Like you're just missing an opportunity to like >> them. Yeah. And just like we get together, we work out. We're having dinner tonight. We we talk about challenges. We drive around and they get to experience the world. Is it a massive investment? Yeah. There's real dollars that are put behind that. Is the ROI 10x? Oh, you better believe it. And I think that most creators are two nickels and dimes to see the upside of those investments. >> And with that comes a lot of moments of

01:02:04 - 01:03:12

interaction. And Taki, you often talk about the best ideas come from your day, come from your experiences. >> How do you weave what's in your reality into your content when teams are constantly asking for process? My teams aren't constantly asking for process because the team is if you think about like the difference between a a factory production line which like at scale it kind of has to be and a formula 1 pit crew like mine looks more like that. I'm the dude in the car and then every now

01:02:38 - 01:03:41

and again they'll come in and off I go. [laughter] It's not it's not Martell scalable. Uh but mine is 100% built around what I want to do, what I want to say, what I'm saying, when I'm available, where I am. Um and so yeah, that's the thing. So the process is uh the content always comes out of what am I doing with clients that's cool or what's happening in my world that's cool? Uh every Friday I sit down with this cat called Ross. I think we talked about this last time. Uh and I just review my

01:03:10 - 01:03:58

week and and I'm looking for interesting. And so the interesting is what happened in my calendar, what happened in my with my clients, what happened in the community, what happened in my DMs, what happened in my life circumstances, and I just make a a list of all the things. This is mostly for short form and email. Um, and then once I've got a list of like 10 or 11 things, I'm like, what are the five coolest things? That's what we're going to talk about this week. Uh, when it comes to uh

01:03:34 - 01:04:27

long form content, then it's either what's going on for clients that's great. to your earlier point, I used to make client content and marketing content and it was ridiculous because what do I want the mark what's the marketing's job is to find me more people like my clients. So if it work great for them, I just break a piece off and share it with the audience. And so that's it's I'm always looking at what's going on in our business or client's business so I can share pieces of that

01:04:00 - 01:05:06

with the with the market. And when we think about long versus short format content, short format seems to rule attention whereas long seems to develop more trust. How do you guys manage the balance between both short and long form content? >> Yeah. Our our philosophy is is long form creates the depth and relationship. Short form is distribution. And if you do it right, you can take a long form piece and produce it in a way that you get the short form. And in the short form, you just say where the long form

01:04:33 - 01:05:24

is. The short form gets virality and they look at the description. They go, "Oh, it was on this YouTube channel. It was on this podcast." And then they go, "So like maybe this clip right now of me sharing that gets shared short form as an answer, but it's going to have your Instagram or your tag on that platform for people to go consume long form." And the people, it's funny because I can always tell when I do like a book meetup or meet people where they're consuming

01:05:00 - 01:05:56

from >> based on the conversations and the depth of >> really. >> Oh, 100 thousand%. The YouTube audience is way different than the Tik Tok audience. >> How are >> the Tik Tok is more transient. It's it's more like there's they don't they're they're um it's it's almost like uh fast food versus whole food. [laughter] >> Like it's it truly is. It's like brain rot versus depth. I don't know. Yeah. >> And like the um that is to me if you're

01:05:27 - 01:06:24

trying to kind of squeeze as much juice out of it, it's how do you produce long form in a way that can be uh clipped properly? I haven't pulled that off. >> Dude, we we still do dedicated real shoots for short form >> because it's hard, but it and >> it is tough. The podcast format obviously works incredibly well for short form. That's a long form, but to shoot direct, you know, direct to camera teach or how I and then clip that out. The team, we're still in the middle of

01:05:55 - 01:06:56

like perfecting the flow because I don't read scripts, but I follow outlines. How do the outline has to be delivered in a way that can be clipped out and get the numbers that something that was pulled from this? >> Yeah, I think when a long form piece gets clipped, sometimes very sometimes you can get a banger. short form. Most of the time it doesn't. The the outliers are amazing. And so when I shoot a long straight after it, it's fresh in my head. And we'll do three shorts based on it. Uh with a one

01:06:26 - 01:07:19

with a follow me CTA, one with a lead magnet CTA, and one with a watch the long CTA. Um same content, but not re, you know, not repackaged, but remixed. >> I noticed that Alex Heroszi does this where he clips long format and then you'll see four or five versions of it in different settings. >> Oh, dude. We we split test hooks all the time. >> When you say split test, can you give me >> I'll give you a real example. So when we shoot short form, let's say reels, like

01:06:53 - 01:07:48

to Taki's point, you shot a long, it's fresh in your mind, then you remix for short. When I'm shooting, I actually teach the concept, tell the story, and only at the end of that short interview. Then Sam and the team, and we have formats, they'll go, "Okay, say this, say this, say this." Which is different hooks. >> Yeah. >> Then we'll use trial reels on Instagram. We used to use Tik Tok all the time and we would post four or five of those and the algorithm will decide which one

01:07:20 - 01:08:20

works and once we get the winner then we publish to the other platforms. So and and guess what we also have a short form editing team that goes and mines stuff all the time and repackages all the time. like they'll go through our six months ago bangers and go find the original footage and try to hit it from a different angle because they're incentivized to do that because that's how their comp works. So like it's actually interesting to watch. You know, you might have something you said seven

01:07:50 - 01:08:50

years ago that if your team today got their hands on could probably clip that out to have a 10 million view video that's just sitting on a hard drive. Taki, you have a concept around information and how you can kind of bind it and distribute it. Like when you're thinking about your team and putting stuff together, like how do you see platforms? How do you see process? How do you how do you really try to drive long and short? So the big picture strategy is I've already got a body of work that I'm working on with my clients

01:08:20 - 01:09:09

and so there's no need to reinvent the wheel. And I think people's big fear, particularly if you've got some knowledge, is like, if I share this, then why would somebody buy my thing? Or if you're not in the teaching business, if I share this, doesn't I giving away my trade secrets? This is the dumbest thing ever. >> Like your best stuff and you hold it. >> I mean, even the clients who pay you money sometimes don't do the stuff. And so, like, some some dude on YouTube

01:08:45 - 01:09:30

isn't going to like I mean, the ones that do, it's awesome. But so I give freely of my information and I earn the right to charge a premium for implementation. >> I I heard from Chris do that people will pay for proximity. >> Yeah. So I think it depends on the level of their business. I've got three categories of client. You know, people getting started, people who are, you know, six figures going to seven and people who are seven plus. These guys want the information. Totally cool.

01:09:07 - 01:09:57

They're like they're buying a product. Uh these guys want uh want coaching. It's like here's the stuff apply to my business. Help me do it. The guys at the top, they don't want information. They want speed and proximity >> and to each other. >> 100%. Yeah. Proximity to to me. Proximity to each other and proximity uh away from those guys. [laughter] >> Reverse proximity. >> Yeah. Unproximity, whatever that's called. Proximity. Proximity. Um [laughter]

01:09:32 - 01:10:19

>> proxy. >> Yeah. So, like people in boardroom are buying close to me, close to each other, not close to those guys, and they're buying speed. And so, they don't want like boardroom has zero content from me in it. Like zero. Like not one video of like Taki teaches the thing. I'm just going here's what I'm doing in my business and I share. They all share and that's the that's the thing. They're buying each other. >> But that's not I don't know if that's

01:09:55 - 01:10:39

YouTube related, but that's [laughter] >> okay. And then when you're thinking about these different platforms, do you guys have your favorites? Do do you >> I'm only on two. >> Okay. >> I think when you get started, it's tempting to I'm going to be voice of little guy here. Some like Dan's on every platform. I should be on every platform. Well, yeah, dude. Eventually, but you got to start somewhere. So, uh, I'm on Instagram for short and I'm on

01:10:17 - 01:11:08

YouTube for long and that's it. >> That's where we started, too. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, and I think, um, to your point right at the start about iterations versus reps, most people, you can you can make a counter argument. I think most people should start with short form. And that's just because the skills that you need for long form, you're going to develop in short form. But if you're doing a vid a day over a month, you've got like 30 reps. It would take you 30 months or 30

01:10:43 - 01:11:34

weeks rather to get the same number of reps. and just learn way faster. So, I think we start short um and then we can add along when it makes sense. That's my take. >> What platforms tend to build the greatest fan base and what platforms tend to build the most monetization? >> YouTube has been a game changer for us. Like, I'm just kicking myself that I didn't do it 10 years ago. I started this I think this is the mindset everyone should have when they join a new platform is like I'm gonna do this

01:11:08 - 01:11:58

for a long ass time even if it doesn't work. Like expect like I started YouTube in March. I was like, I'm going to do this uh forever, but my goal was even if we don't get a single client from it for a year, it's still worthwhile because I'm building an asset. I think that's the one thing that YouTube has that maybe the others don't is you build this asset. Um to my utter surprise and delight, 30 minutes after posting my first video, we signed a $30,000 client and it's just like snowballed. I mean,

01:11:33 - 01:12:28

I'll take it. It's great. Nice to get some positive reinforcement, but that mindset of I'm going to do this because it's right, not because I get instant gratification is is really important. Um, I think short form for attention, like I'm building an audience on short form and funneling them into email and assets I own, not rent. And then YouTube's job is um, at the moment it's more a middle of funnel conversion piece for us because I'm not good at packaging and discovery yet.

01:12:00 - 01:13:00

>> Yeah. I'll I'll tell a story that I've never shared. When we started the media company, I mean, I gave Sam essentially, we looked at my calendar and we looked at my bank account because I think those are the two areas you got to commit to. And I said, "Whatever you need for calendar, whatever you need for capital, like go." >> I mean, we got a studio, we hired people, we were hiring the coaches, getting the mentorship, following the process. We were doing the thing, right?

01:12:30 - 01:13:40

We were modeling. We didn't modify, we modeled. We went seven months with no change. And I'm talking posting on YouTube twice a week. Seven months stuck in the 3,000 4,000 view jail. And I remember it was early December. Seven months in. And I'm we're sitting at a like a table out in the office and I'm just having this kind of like, bro, what? Like do we have to delete? Because I thought maybe because we'd done poopy stuff for so long that YouTube's like, "I don't trust you." I'm like, "We're

01:13:06 - 01:14:02

doing the thing, bro. Like, I just want a 100K video, man. My birthday's the 26. Like, get me get me a video." And he's like, Sam's so stoic. He's like, "Trust me." And I [snorts] was like, "I trust you, bro, but you've never done this before and there's a lot of money and look around." And u we stayed consistent and I think it was he said, "Give me a couple more months." And two weeks later, we got our first 100k video and it went and like I think a year is too

01:13:33 - 01:14:26

long. I think six months is not enough. Like if you're doing something and you're not seeing the results for six months, keep going. If it's a year, ask yourself if you you got to get some feedback. But um I think what's interesting now that was three years ago and the algorithm has changed which is kind of wild. Like back then it was a social graph, now it is the interest graph. So today, I don't think that's the case by any means. Anybody listening to this tomorrow could get more views

01:14:00 - 01:14:56

than I've gotten combined with the right video. >> Yeah. >> But it doesn't change the fact that trust is built with consistency. Period. Full stop. If I go to your page, and I did yesterday I went to my buddy's page who said he was going to go pro and he hasn't posted in two months. He lost the trust of his audience because he did good for six months. And I think like that's been the biggest lesson in in all things media is just stay on the problem long enough. Like just like stick to it

01:14:28 - 01:15:14

because I think to your point, Tuck, if you would have gave up three months in because the numbers like and it's funny because I've seen the algorithm sometimes a first video post on a new channel will get a bunch of views to get the person excited and then their other videos are like 500 views, 500 views. They're like what happened to that 32,000 viewing the first. >> The algorithm is not dumb. Like if you create a new account and post your first video, it will try to get you some views

01:14:51 - 01:15:35

if it's not too bad. >> And but it's staying power at the end of the day. People are like, "Oh, well Dan and Taki are creating content. What can I add to the to the world?" That's like saying there's too many songs written. Like there's not too many songs. Like just because Eminem exists doesn't mean you can't create a rap song or a country song. So like I just think the world wants your version of you. >> Yeah. >> And just share it through the content if

01:15:13 - 01:16:05

you're willing to commit for long periods of time. >> Yeah. So the two ideas to tie a bow about this is like consistency over time and iteration because if you're like just consistent but you don't learn what the hell are we doing? So the end process like if the end process of the workflow is like it starts with I've got an idea. Is it validated or is it what was your word? >> Validate. >> Okay. Is it validated? We shoot it. We edit it. We post it. What do we learn?

01:15:39 - 01:16:31

>> And we don't learn anything when we haven't done the game. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. that video is finished when we learn something that we can roll into the next vid. >> Now I want to understand the algorithm and how you see it. When we think about algorithms, they do tend to shift constantly. However, human patterns do remain the same. What are you seeing in what are you both seeing in the platforms right now and in people's behavior? >> I'm always much more interested in what

01:16:05 - 01:16:52

doesn't change than what does. Mhm. >> Um, like Amazon's going to kill for a long long time because everybody wants faster and cheaper and and better. >> I heard a smart guy say it's what's true, not new. >> Yeah, I know that guy. >> Talking more. >> Yeah. >> What do you mean by what's true? What? Uh, >> well, we always want what's what's new. >> Like what the algorithm loves is what's what's new. Oh, this is the new trend.

01:16:29 - 01:17:19

I'm going to jump on that. Everybody's chasing what's new. What's true is the stuff that doesn't change. And so regardless of like on on YouTube, what's true forever is we need a great thumbnail, we need a great title, we need a great hook, we need, you know, retention, all the stuff. >> Yeah. >> Uh on short form, it's like we need a great first, >> you know, 5 seconds, >> you know, with a visual hook and an auditory hook and a caption hook and all

01:16:54 - 01:17:55

the stuff. So that doesn't change. >> What does change is, okay, well, within that framework, what are we like what's popping right now? So, I'm always looking at like what are the pieces that need tweaking and then we can we can freestyle in that framework. >> Yeah, I use this thing called pumpkin spice latte [laughter] or the PSL framework because the PSL framework is literally a pattern that you can use in all formats and it it's always been present. So, the P stands for point.

01:17:25 - 01:18:17

What's the point? In short form, we call it a hook. In long form, it's the kind of the opening kind of what are they gonna learn? So there's a point then the S is the story. But story isn't just like a story. It could be your story. It could be a client's story. It could be a metaphor. It could be analogy. So story is story. But story acts as the glue for the concept. >> Yeah. >> Facts don't keep things around and taught. It's it's the emotion behind it

01:17:50 - 01:18:45

which is the story. Then the lesson is how does this work? Right. And like I used to struggle every time I went in front of a camera because I would like I would say to myself, I hope I'm on today. Like I hope I hope I got the thing. I hope I hope today my words come out from the brain and it's in a sentence in a structure that sounds like it's credible and smart and thoughtful. And because I didn't have a framework, I would always struggle. >> Then I was like, okay, what what is

01:18:18 - 01:19:16

something that's always true, not new? It's there's always the point, there's a story, and then there's the lesson. And how does it work? And and the lesson in the PSL is literally follow the PSL framework for 15 seconds, 60 seconds, 6 minutes, and I just did it live in front of everybody just now. >> Do you guys look at a balance between story, entertainment, the educational material, and how do you keep those balanced in videos and content? >> So imagine you took the story and the

01:18:46 - 01:19:34

metaphor and the out like your video is a >> Excel spreadsheet. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah, it's like >> I call it about.com. >> What is it? >> It's about.com. It's just information. >> Yeah, it's dry as hell. No one's watching that And so everything else is just like, what do I need to do to land a point that's sticky in somebody's head? Um, I've got a great friend called Matt Church who taught me years ago models. And so he's got this

01:19:11 - 01:19:57

framework called Pink Sheets, which is like a a pink sheet of paper. In the middle is the point. Above that is the context. So it's either a a model, visual model, circles, triangles, and squares, or it's a metaphor, your left brain, right brain. Down the bottom is stories and case studies. So for every single point, there's like multiple ways to deliver that thing. And so I'm just, you know, I'm just bouncing. If this is my point, it always starts with like what are the five things or the three

01:19:34 - 01:20:27

things I want to say. For each one, there's a a model, a metaphor, story, a case study. You don't have to share them all, but it makes your content threedimensional and sticky. >> Could you define the difference between all four? >> Yeah. Uh let's think about the three chunks vertically first. The uh this is the picture you want to paint in people's mind. It's going to be expansive. The point you want to make and this is the the stuff that backs it up. So vertically that makes sense.

01:20:00 - 01:20:57

>> So like picture uh point proof. >> Yeah, exactly right. Great. Uh and then we've just got left and right brain. So um left brain if we're up the top, left brain metaphor. Again, this is Matt Church. Totally not my idea. Thank you, Matt. Um uh so right brain is metaphor, left brain is model down the bottom when we're in the proof piece. Uh right brain story, left brain case study. That's the deal. And so and there are others, but like they're four great tools that you

01:20:29 - 01:21:23

can wrap around any point and you don't have to share them all, but it's lovely to have a depth that you can pull from because if you if you've got like five ways to explain this in your head and you share one, people just go, "Man, this guy's got depth." And if if someone's thinking to themselves, can can you give me more of a an example of that? So when when I explain metaphors to people, people can't always grab it. Um do you have an example of how someone could really

01:20:56 - 01:21:42

>> Yeah, give me a point. We'll make one up right now. >> Um so let's talk about how uh people are afraid to get started. >> Great. Okay. So the point is >> I'm afraid. >> No, that's not a point. That's a problem. The point is do it anyway. Okay. Right. >> Yeah. Do what do you call it? Do it with your bum dirty. >> We tell people there. What do you call it? Do it with brown pants. >> That's it. >> Do it [laughter] with brown pants.

01:21:19 - 01:22:03

That's the framework name. >> Yeah. Do it with brown pants. Like courage isn't not cheating yourself. Courage is doing it with brown pants. It's all like could it be a metaphor? Yeah. It's also a story. Like I had a bunch of clients um in October, bunch of brand new coaches joined us to launch their coaching business live in a three-day workshop and they're themselves because they're getting asked to make a bunch of big decisions that are kind of scary all in a day and then

01:21:41 - 01:22:29

launch it and get real customers. And right up front, I knew that like scared would get in their way. And um so I told them that courage isn't not yourself. Courage is doing with brown pants. And so we get to the point on day three where they're going to take their offer to the market and actually like see if people want this thing. and they're themselves. I'm like, okay, we wrote down the offer. We wrote down the invitation and I get them to post it. They're like, I'm so

01:22:05 - 01:22:53

scared. I'm like, brown pants. I'm like, team brown pants for the win. And they posted the thing. Within 3 minutes, people start getting somebody wants this. Somebody wants this. I'm like, great. Now, send the, you know, send the invitation, you know, the details of the offer and see what happens. I'm so scared. I'm like, do it. Bam. I'm like, send this. I'll put three minutes on the clock. Send it right now. And when you do, regardless of what happens, I will be proud of you. So they send the thing

01:22:29 - 01:23:33

and all of a sudden people like, I'm in. Great. Now send the payment link. And people made like the first money they've ever made online. Why? Because they did it with brown pants. Okay. Out of role play. What did we just do? We did the story or the case study about that thing. Um a model might just be a really simple um two column XY. You know, actually, let's do it like this. There's um being scared or being confident and there's doing it not doing it right. So my goal is do it with brown pants and

01:23:01 - 01:23:51

then pretty soon you get to do it with clean pants because you've done it a few times. So everything Yeah. Everything could be broken down into u a point a picture and some supportive stuff, some proof. Um it sounds complicated until you've done it like a bazillion times for everything you teach every Friday for 15 years. >> Well, everything you just did there was a piece of content >> 100%. And essentially you've modeled what that looks like. >> Yes. >> Yeah.

01:23:25 - 01:24:33

>> What what's interesting about so learning from Taki is that he is like the Russian doll of what he does and he teaches and it's like awesome to study because in studying his work you watch him execute. So it's it's it's kind of this circular kind of rocket ship. And what most people wouldn't see unless they got to spend time like I do at Taki is just the reps, right? the iterations like and the deliberate practice like just for me personally the idea of metaphors was something I

01:23:59 - 01:24:49

wanted to get better at. So I sat down with Sam we're doing a feedback we do a weekly media feedback loop and he's like look you got these stories they're great you got these case studies but let's let's start trying to create more visuals because it supports the the B-roll >> of course >> so he's like I love it. So when you asked earlier like how do you decide when you use what kind of story? Well, what are you trying to produce? Because if the team needs to visualize stuff and

01:24:24 - 01:25:18

I don't use a metaphor, what are they doing? They're trying to find B-roll that represents a story that they didn't capture that I'm telling. So I went four weeks where I just told metaphors >> and I studied metaphors and there's books on metaphors and then I got into analogies and you know now when I talk about AI because it's a big topic I always give the the analogy of the Gutenberg press right the scribes that used to take notes before the press didn't lose their jobs. the ones that

01:24:52 - 01:25:58

learned how the press works became publishers and like that cuz what is great about a metaphor for example is they're shorter and punchier for short form. >> Yes. >> So dude we can go nerdy on the science of of the storytelling and stuff but like it is there's an unlimited depth of skills and and knowhow that you can master when it comes to communication that you'll never get to the end of. And that's why I think it's the ultimate personal development program because

01:25:24 - 01:26:23

your life is a byproduct of your words. And if you can master communication, that's all we're talking about today. Talk is a master. Your life revol resol revolves around that. And I think it's it's just worth if content's your gateway drug to do it. Hit publish. >> Yeah. >> We have time for one more question for each of you. If you both had to give founders one more rule of surviving the landscape of content creation >> when everything feels like it's stacks

01:25:54 - 01:26:42

stacked against them, what might the survival tip be? >> I'm just I I just when I work with friends that want to do this, I just ask one thing. Commit to posting three times a day on your stories. Talk to the camera. That's it. >> That's a great baby step. >> That's it. Yeah, stories is good. >> Give me Are we doing a 30-day challenge, CJ challenge, 100? whatever you want to pick, but I need you three, talk to your camera, share anything. I don't care if

01:26:18 - 01:27:09

you sit there and make a weird noise with your mouth and it makes no sense. I need you to hit publish because there is no way to learn to surf reading a book. You learn to surf getting in the wave. And content is that. And if you've listened to this and you feel inspired and you're like, "Now's the moment that I'm finally going to do this. I don't need to be like talking. I don't need to be like Dan, but I'm going to do my version of it." Good. Just commit. that

01:26:43 - 01:27:37

you're going to do three two camera story posts. I give you a little out because they get deleted after 24 hours. So, you don't have to like be accountable to anything. But just do that for 30 days. And what'll happen is by the 21 22 days in, you're just going to feel a sense of confidence where you're like, "Oh, this is just now who I am. I'm not a content creator. I just share my ideas in this format that's incredibly valuable." At the end of the day, I think every person's on earth to

01:27:11 - 01:28:02

do two things. one, become the best version of themselves. Two, teach what they've learned with other people. I don't care if you're a parent or a business leader or a content creator or a coach. That is what fulfillment is really about. >> That's great. I love that we landed here because that's the like three stories a day is the perfect get started tip. So, for the first time all show, I get to do the once you've already started, let me give you the pro tip. Is that cool?

01:27:36 - 01:28:37

Yeah. Um, say say what only you can say. If a song feels like it could be on anyone else's album, it doesn't belong in yours. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so there's like now that everyone's got GBT and everyone's looking at what everyone else can say and like repeating like trying to come up with their version of it. Dude, the thing that sets you apart is is uh saying what only you can say. So I like I want you to say something you've got an opinion about and some energy about. Otherwise I don't

01:28:07 - 01:28:56

need to hear that The world's got enough content in it, enough yap in it already. Give me the goods. The stuff I love from you, Dan, is when you've got like you've got experience that I don't have and you can be able to say, "Well, I do it like this because of this and this is what I believe." I'm like, "Fuck, I love that. I've been using this software tool called Base Camp for 15 years. I got to interview Jason Frerieded. It was my career highlight. He's like Casey Neistad of business for

01:28:31 - 01:29:20

me. I love this guy. And at the end I'm like, "Hey man, I just wanted to say I've been using Base Camp for, you know, since 2004. And I don't use it because it's the best tool. I use it because you guys have got an opinion." And he just smiled. Like that's how you get cut through right now. Not because you're trying to be polarizing because you got something to say. And so as you like your business wants you to be consistent and and uh has a demand for commercial production

01:28:55 - 01:29:46

like for volume. If you just play the volume game, you're just like another content slot factory. I want to hear from the artist. I call that getting dangerous. Like share something you've got an opinion about and that stuff will get you seen. >> When someone's sitting there and thinking about how nervous they are to talk about that type of >> That's why you need to do it. If you're like scared and excited, hell yes. That's the That's what I want to hear from you.

01:29:21 - 01:30:11

>> Yeah. The thing you don't want to talk about is the thing you should talk about. That's why to Taki's point, the internal stuff is your best stuff. Most people never talk about that because they're worried people are going to rip it off. That is the stuff you should talk about. >> Yep. >> I wish I could talk to you both all day. This has been a ton of fun. Taki, Dan, thank you so much for being here, making the time. I know you're running a really hectic schedule, both of you, this time

01:29:46 - 01:30:40

of year, and you're flying all across the globe and you're in and out of different places as well. Um guys, I just appreciate you being here and and sharing such deep and thoughtful insights. >> Everybody follow us on Instagram. Follow Taki on Instagram. Follow me on Instagram. It's there's the best way to learn is just to watch people that are committed to doing it and just be inspired by it. I'm talking even you Dane like that's why I'm really excited to be here is watching you kind of step

01:30:12 - 01:30:58

it up. And um you know, even if you just watch for a little bit, I think uh eventually we might say something that'll get you kicked in the you know, do it with brown pants. [laughter] >> If you want to send anyone anywhere, where would you like to each send? >> That's the spot. Yeah, >> Instagram. >> Martell, two of Martell talking more. >> Instagram. >> Two O's in more. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> We'll put all the links in chat so people can find you. But um yeah, it's

01:30:36 - 01:31:16

been a pleasure watching your journey. Uh, I know you feel like you're early and I know you feel like you're you're just I don't know starting to really get some deep traction and uh >> that's what's so good, man. I'm not even good yet. And it's so great. Like I'm not so great. Most of the time I feel like a turtle who's been flipped on his back and he's like, "Ah, help [laughter] me. I don't know what the I'm doing." It's working so damn well.

01:30:56 - 01:31:41

>> Um, do you remember Steven Bradbury, the Aussie Olympic? >> Yeah. >> Right. This dude won. I'm sorry. I know you closed the episode. We've reopened it, And we'll close it in a second. So, I don't know if you you guys are great at the Winter Olympics in Canada, right? We suck at it because it's beach time. Now, Australia's first ever gold medalist in the Winter Olympics was this cat called Steven Bradbury. He's a um speed skater. You know, they do the loops.

01:31:18 - 01:32:07

>> And he he gets himself into the final. He knows he can't win. His only chance of winning is if every single other falls over. Like legit, you talk about talked to him afterwards. This is what he said. Like, I knew I couldn't win. My hope was they fall. So, he's like there's the pack sprinting around this thing. He's like a couple of steps back. Sure enough, cat falls over. Trips, trips, trips, trips. Dude, like wins. >> It's a real story. >> Legit. >> Yeah. You not seen this video? I will.

01:31:43 - 01:32:33

Right after this. >> Yeah. >> That's the thing. The e like >> most of the people aren't even on the field. >> Most of the people who start don't finish. The way you win is you're the dude who just does the laps. You don't have to be first, but you win if you do it. Follow us on Instagram. [laughter] >> With that being said, um we'll close it here. Thank you so much. You're welcome.

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