The Content Strategy Mistakes That Are Costing You | James Smith

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Never have you had such an opportunity that you can just press the plus button on your phone and you can potentially get a million people to see it. Can you imagine going back like 50 years? Anything you give us, we just put in the paper. How much is it? How much do what paper a goes in all of them? Does it have to be good? Nah. But if it is good, you get loads of sales. Many users. Oh, yeah. Billions. I was like, you guys are going [music] to spend the next 10 years developing your business in this room.

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I'm going to go do it online. People in content can create a dinner table genius. And the dinner table genius is where someone's going to say something at dinner table that isn't true. Don't have too many Coke Zeros, James. It could be cancer. But Tracy, aspartame is what you're talking about, right? And you should be worried about aspartame if you're a [ __ ] rat. But are you a rat? No. Didn't think so. Don't talk to me about Code Zero again. All right. If [music] you watch a TED talk, you get

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bored. If you watch stand up, you feel unproductive. If you can intertwine humor into what you do, you don't even realize there's a perfect symphony of education and entertainment put together. Oh, do you want to spend money on a billboard? Idiot. People are looking down, bro. They're on their phone. If you want to get in front of people, don't put a plane in the sky pulling your name across. Get it on a phone. Everyone seems to think that confidence is a precursor to action, but

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it's inverse. When they come into the realm of content creation, I kind of just want to say to people like, "Oh, just just be [ __ ] for 2 years." But they don't want to hear that. What's the difference between giving [music] people knowledge and then giving them power? >> I would like to apologize to my fiance for what I'm about to say. >> This episode is brought to you by Wick Studio. >> Here at the agency podcast, we're building a community and we would love

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for you guys to be part of it. So, we would love to hear from you. What are you enjoying the most? What would you like to see more of? And what do you think might be missing? Drop a comment. Make sure you subscribe. And now on with the show. James Smith, welcome to the Agency podcast. Excited to have you here, man. >> I'll say what everyone says in a podcast. Thank you very much for having me. >> Man, I would say by far on the internet, the person that has the best hot takes, I think in my opinion is yourself. I'

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I've been watching, observing, and I'm enjoying it. And I think, you know, having, I guess, grown up as a kid that loves punk rock, skating, all those kind of things, I like anyone that has any proclivity to kind of talk against like the common zeitgeist. And I'm just a huge fan, dude. Appreciate you being here. >> There was always Thank you very much. There was always um a part of me that thought I had to be professional online and then there was the version of me that exists with my friends and I never

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really thought that bringing out that side of me that existed with my friends on social media would do better. And I'll never forget as a personal trainer in a gym, I would go into the PT room and I'll try and make content on things I thought were relevant. Like, oh, Snickers just made a protein bar. Let's talk about it. I remember one day I was genuinely pissed off. And the version of me that's with my friends came out. And that video just did better. And I was like, oh, hold on a minute. I can

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actually be the version of myself in real life online and it will perform better. And ever since then, it's been almost doubling a probably an AB split test. I just kept doubling down on. Uh I would even say maybe in real life, I'm actually a bit more chilled. But that part of me that's always like that's stupid. It's always been there. You know, even we were saying before, I had a member of staff whose girlfriend lived in another country and I was like, I didn't even know the guy. I'm like,

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she's cheating on you. >> Why would I say that to someone? Because it's exactly what I'd say to my friends. So there's always that version of me online is the exact same version that I am offline. >> Can you tell the story real quick because I thought it was interesting how you kind of mentioned what someone said and then you're like immediately I know. >> Yeah. So he was thinking of moving overseas to Australia. His girlfriend worked in France and she worked in an

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environment where she would be surrounded by probably high status men. And I was like, if they what's the famous saying that uh if you hear hooves outside, it could be a zebra, but it's probably a horse, [laughter] >> you know? So, >> yeah. >> Yeah, bro. Sure, she's she's staying loyal. She's not interested in other dudes, but chances are >> she's getting filled in in that ski shalet, bro. [laughter] So, you know, and I said that to him from a place of

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respect, like the bro stance. >> Hey, bro, there's there's every chance your girlfriend, you know, young, naive, all of those things. Now, I didn't have to tell him that, but I actually felt I'd be doing a disservice not telling him because even if I'm incorrect. He can pro assess the situation. He can maybe do a, you know, a little bit of a stress test on it, and it might work out better. If anything, that could strengthen their relationship. >> What What I love what you're saying here

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is, you know, that might sound flagrant or offensive or abrasive, but when two guys are hanging out talking as friends, they will talk this way. And and I think you're you're inviting people in essentially by talking like this. >> You might agree with me with this as well. Also, like imagine someone says, um, "Hey mate, here's my landing page. How does it look?" The the the best I would be the biggest [ __ ] in the world if I say to you, "Yeah, it looks good." That is the biggest disservice I

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could do to you. Instead, I go, "Bro, this has to be the worst landing page I've ever seen in my [ __ ] life. This is abhorrent. You're above the fold. Makes me want to quit my job." You know, I even I have like a Discord of people that I help. If I see a really bad like landing page or some bad copy, I'll say, "I cannot believe you pulled me away from my child to read this [laughter] because I need I need that emotive pain there." You know, sometimes you need to

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give people that if you if you don't give them enough if you don't give them enough to think about or enough to do or enough to action, you don't get the emotive response that they need to change. >> When when you're talking to someone about maybe an issue they have with their business, like what what is that that you're trying to identify and how can you use pain to your advantage? The number one place that I first spotted this was my first ever PT client uh was a chiropractor and I got to experience

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one of the most beautiful sales cycles ever. So I went to the chiropractor cuz I had a bad back and every person that goes in the chiropractor has a bad back. No one goes there for a checkup. You know, no one no one just turns up going, "Hey, can you check out my vertebrae?" So straight away the second you walk in, they're like, "We got you." So you go in and it's not just enough to say, "I've got a bad back." They go, "Let's do an X-ray." and they get the X-ray and they

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come out and they go, "It's going to be 100 bucks for the X-ray, by the way, just to let you know." And then uh they put it up and they go, "Oh, see this? That's a bit of a L3 degeneration. Those discs a little bit close together. Probably hold you, 36. This looks more like the disc degeneration of a 55-year-old man. They just depress you vertebrae by vertebrae." And then afterwards, they go, "But there is a remedy. Come see me twice a week for an adjustment." But the level of pain, they

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they don't just tell you, they show you. And you already have the pain. You're in there with a bad back. But they try and make it seem out to be so much worse. And then just before you think, I'm going to be in a wheelchair for the rest of my life. Here's the solution. They have to be some of the best sales people ever. Then they get you painfree or they serve you, whatever. But the thing you say there is so true in fitness. Again, I learned almost everything about sales and marketing from being a PT because

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the job is [ __ ] for a start and you're selling things that they can do themselves, but there is pain in there. And people come in and they go, "I want to lose a bit of weight." I'm like, "Nah, keep coming." They're like, "No, no, just want to lose a few pounds." I'm like, "No, you don't." Then they're like, "Oh, yeah. My boyfriend just dumped me or my buttons popped off in my jeans in a meeting, went firing across the boardroom. Most embarrassing moment

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of my life." I'm like, "There we are." Yeah. >> So, there's always you're not just going to message a personal trainer out the blue. You're not coming here for a check. I need to contact someone. >> When you think about the internet and how you made content as a PT and essentially started to build a career for yourself, what were you observing behaviorally from everyone around you? And then as you said before, you moment the moment you realize where being

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honest was more interesting than trying to play a role if you will. So if I tie my question up, it's it's like what did you observe at that point in time when you first started making content as a PT? And then when did you really decide to lean in to being honest? >> So there's a term we call it now which we call lad Bible James. So I'll message my manager. We was saying before offline he's like my older brother been working with him for nearly 10 years and he speaks on my behalf anywhere. He

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actually has all my money. So he gives me what I'm allowed to spend and I don't even I lost my card to this bank account ages ago. So if he's sifting money from me, he's doing a great job. [laughter] >> So definitely not. >> I'll ask him what version of James do I need to be for this interview. And if he says lad Bible James, that's [ __ ] this, [ __ ] that, [ __ ] this. Like there's different versions of James that he wants. And lad Bible James came out a

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little bit at the beginning. One of the best observations I had was I grew my Facebook to about 3,000 followers which I thought was big by the way when I first got to Australia say yeah I've got a following bigger than my rugby club at home and I went into fitness verse I was in Bond street and the real defining moment was a personal trainer came up to me with a clipboard and he tried getting my email address and this is very beginning of 2017 like what are you doing oh we're getting email addresses I

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was like bro it's it's quart 12 on a day and you can just see people moving really fast, pretending you don't exist. I was like, "Mate, this is the only hour of someone's day that they have to come in here and train. The gym's already busy. They're probably going to be queuing for equipment." This could not be a worse time to get someone's email address. And I said to him, "Why don't you just run like a Facebook ad?" And there was nothing there behind the

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personal trainer's eyes. He He had no idea. To him, it was just the clipboard. And I thought, "Oh." And I sat back and I looked at the gym. And in Australia, you have some of the most handsome, chiseled, good-looking men that know so much about fitness and training. Even, dare I say it, Australian men have an art of having tattoos that look good. In the UK, you've got like old guys invest with tribal tattoos. It looks awful. But even in Australia, they've got like nice sleeves and good patterns and stuff. And

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I was like, but to all of you, your world of this career and profession exists within these four walls. There's nothing outside. to the personal trainers that were there. They had reception, they had the change rooms, they had the gym. There was nothing outside wider than that. So, it was understanding there was going to be a version of me that I could put online that would get a bit of traction. But that interaction in Bond Street on that day, I was like, you guys are going to spend the next 10 years developing your

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business in this room. I'm going to go do it online because actually, I was like, because you guys aren't. You guys are my most fierce competitors. And if I come here on the gym floor, I'm probably going to lose. I'm a chubbier, worse looking version of you guys and I'm not even that good at sport. But online, if I've got a I used to joke I say online PTS from the chest up, you got a good set of shoulders, you're fine. No one's going to find you out for years. So I

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was like looking to a place that I could beat those people. And now I'm a brown belt in jiu-jitsu and basically if there's someone with better, you know, accolades or someone who's got a better game than me in a certain place, I will never match them there. If I go to America and I can tell someone wrestles, I'm going to drop on my butt and scoot. If I can tell that someone's got a really good leg lock game, I'm not going to put my feet anywhere near him in business and everywhere, you need to

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assess and understand where is this person strong, where are they going to succeed, where can I go to beat them because I'm not going to go match them where they're strongest. And that was probably the very beginning of my career going online. So realizing that your [clears throat] competition essentially weren't realizing the gap of uh what could be possible online and then they were fixating on the four walls and I saw this a lot. I I remember being responsible for about 16 pts and they

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would come to me and they would say give me more leads and I would say to them like what else are you doing outside of me handing you phone numbers and emails and they would look at you like what are you talking about? So I I've I've had that experience and it is frustrating. I think when you started making content online, you were essentially calling out a lot of BS as well. So, help me understand when you looked at the internet, you kind of saw a landscape of lies, if you will. Um, when you come

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across the content creators then and the content creators now, have you seen the same kind of game being played or you uh witnessing a change or an evolution of it? So the interesting thing is here now in reflection looking back. I couldn't talk about muscle growth because I wasn't that muscular. I couldn't talk about fat loss because I wasn't that lean. So when you look at the fitness landscape again, if I talk about muscle growth, I'm going to lose to all the dudes on steroids. If I talk about fat

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loss, I'm going to lose to all the dudes with good genetics. So I needed to find where can I talk and be an authority in this space without having to compete with those people. And again, I would look at a lot of my competitors and they were very good at educating, but they were [ __ ] boring. And again, something everything makes sense in hindsight, even Logan Paul and KSI, to get attention, they would fight. There is nothing more attention seeking to people than conflict between two people.

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Then even if you think about it, a takedown or a video calling out BS is like a one-sided rap battle. So, you can do everything. they can respond, but it's almost one of the most beautiful setups to make content because you can structure it exactly how you want in any way you like. And the the kind of common enemy for me being in that industry was I was overweight when I grew up. I didn't really get into sport until later. And no one this sounds really dumb to say it. When I was like 11, I'd

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go up to the canteen ladies and be like, "Which of these foods are fattening?" I thought they were foods making me fat. never occurred to me that it was the volume of the amount of food or it was the amount versus how much. Never occurred to me. Even at like 20 years old, I remember doing like a a workout with my friend. And then two for Tuesday's Domino's Pizza, having a pizza at night. Never occurred to me. It was purely a fact of needing to eat less. There was a workout back in the day

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called Insanity. You ever heard of it? >> No. >> There's this guy called Sha T. Dig deeper. Dig deeper. And they're like doing high knees and mountain climbers. And I was sweating all over my front floor in in the front room. And I was thinking to myself, I'm going to get jacked. I'm going to get so lean. I'm going to get into all of this. Even as a 20-year-old, this is what 2010, I was getting misled to all of these different things. Never occurred to me that I just

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needed to pull back on my calories. So, when I got to the fitness industry and started to understand all this, I felt like a [ __ ] [ __ ] I was like, you kidding me? I could have just tracked my calories. Surely not. This is too simple. So there was a chip on my shoulder from all of those years of not knowing what I was doing. So the persona I was taking online wasn't just calling out BS. It was it was being the person that I really could have done with 10 years before. And then I think to

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myself, I was never [snorts] that great at rugby anyway. But I thought I could have been better if I'd have known this or I could have been fitter. I could have looked better. I could have had hotter girlfriends. All the things that are important at a 20-year-old if I'd only have had this information. So it was half being a person I really could have done with in that period before. But the other half was knowing that people were taking advantage of even people like myself. If someone had said

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to me, "Hey mate, we've got this highintensity interval training workout here. You're just going to get fitter and sweat in your front room. It's not really going to help you get in better shape." Told him to [ __ ] off. But because I was led to believe from the marketing and all everything about it, I thought I was going to end up like the shredded black guy on the cover, you know? So for me there was definitely a chip on the shoulder for a missed opportunity similar to I'm sure in like

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get rich schemes where you might have bought into some things in the early days pre GaryVee people say oh just do this drop shipping I'm going to make so much money then by the end of it you you go on a a a quest to tell people not to do drop shipping because you wasted your energy time money it's one of those for me that I kind of yeah wanted to prevent people from going down the path that I did. If you want to grow your agency, you need more than just a website builder. You need Rick Studio, the

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single layout into hundreds of additional dynamic pages. It's true. More clients no longer has to mean more chaos. Wix Studio gives you one centralized view of every project and makes realtime collaborations seamless. Do your agency's best work at scale. Build your next project on Wix Studio. Why do people I guess prefer the illusion of of this person can help me versus the reality of what they might be missing in their business. I >> think it goes back quite a long time. So I can imagine, let's say a thousand

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years ago, someone suffering with leprosy. Some guy would have come along and go, "Oh, I've got something." >> Oh, there's some uh dandelion extract in here. You just take that, you'd be fine. Yeah. >> Take the coins, disappears. Yeah. >> So, I think it's as old as time. People when they really want something are quite susceptible to anyone that can come across confident. One of the big things uh probably in fitness as well is there's this massive lottery of genetics

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and have you heard of the swimmer's body illusion? >> No. And also what do you mean by um the lottery as well? >> Some win, some don't. [laughter] >> You're 6'4, right? >> Yes. >> What's that top 1%? >> True. >> I think only 4% of men are over six foot. >> I didn't know that. maybe I think only maybe 6% of the world are blonde uh or have blue eyes something crazy. So some of the traits that people have they massively over overestimate. So in some

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respects for height for athletism for sexual attraction for uh opportunity for mates you won the lottery. So sorry to all the dudes that are you know there's you know Adam Sullivan EBT. >> Yes. >> He's in the Valley of Death between 510 and 6 foot. >> Yeah. So if you if you notice, love Adam, one of my good friends, none of his trainers are flat. They've all got a slight bit of sponge on the heel. >> So we can so we can get up to 5'11 and a half. >> Yeah.

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>> Anyway, so uh the genetic lottery, some people don't have to work very hard to be in incredible shape. >> Yeah. >> And they're the people that end up moving towards that industry. So swimmers Body Illusion, let's say there's someone out there not in great shape, wants to improve their situation, can do it, whatever. So they go, "Okay, I might become a runner." And then he looks at runners and he goes, "They look a bit skinny and they look a bit

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miserable. I'm not going to do that." They go, "I'm going to start bodybuilding." And then looks at bodybuilders and goes, "They look a bit too muscular and they look a bit stupid." And he's looking around at physique thinking, "What can I be?" And he sees a swimmer. Goes, "Perfect." So he starts swimming. Two, three months into swimming, realizes it's a fallacy. It's all an illusion. Swimmers don't look the way they do because they swim.

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They swim because of the way they look. So we might think men are big and broad because they play rugby, but they're not. They play rugby because they're big and broad. >> So your physical attributes are much more inclined to the outcome of what you do versus anything else. The Burgess brothers, >> four of them weigh 460 kg combined. It is their size that when those Burgess brothers ended up playing rugby at school, they knocked over all the people they run into. Those people are going to

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love the sport. They Yeah, mate. Rugby league, bloody great. whereas people that are five foot and relatively underdeveloped is going to get knocked down and hate it. So your physical attributes are a massive component of whether or not you're going to enjoy something. So again, we've got all kinds of different spectrums. Ability to grow muscle, um metabolism, height, frame, even your shoulder to waist ratio, the fact you're going to go bald or not. All of these genetic variations between.

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Some people have to win the genetic lottery where they get all of those things. Then they get to 18, 20, start going to the gym, start looking good, can eat what they want, in great shape. And even if this was a fraction of a percentage of the population, you would still have more people to follow on social media than you could follow on an Instagram account. There'd be thousands. So suddenly their friends say to them, you should become a fitness coach or you should become a fitness influencer. Why?

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Because you care about people? You're a good coach. You're empathetic? No, because you look like one. So no one would ever say to you, "Hey, bro, you should become an entrepreneur." Why? because you look like an entrepreneur, you know, it's just it it wouldn't happen. And then you realize that the majority of these people, these blitherin idiots in the fitness industry, I don't blame them. They're saying things because they look a certain way, they become an authority on

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it. And if they are an intermittent fasting guru or they're low carb or whatever, they can get away with it because of their genetics. And we need to come along and go, "Hey, bro, you you are a great looking specimen with fantastic genetics, but what you're saying just isn't true." And if Dave over here tries following your advice, he's not going to get anywhere. So we need to make sure we give people kind of evidence-based practices. And the one thing here is we've started off quite

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fitness heavy. And some people might go, "Oh, I thought personal brand." But it's all the same because just because one person had one business that sold and IPOed, that doesn't mean they know a lot about business. It means they know a lot about one business. It's why you can't stagger people just in who made the most money, >> right? The person that's grown five businesses, okay, we're getting somewhere. The person that's had 10 businesses getting somewhere. Someone

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like Toby Pierce who has a everything he touches seems to benefit massively in kind. You go, Toby Pierce, you're a weapon, mate. You're good. So, it's one of those things that people just because one person has got like genetics can't believe what they say. Same with someone has won good business, we can't just believe what they say. There are going to be outliers and everything. And some people just because it's worked for them, they seem to see that as being true. M so fitness and business.

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>> Yeah. So like you know we see a lot of people that are you know uh Forbes 30 under 30 or I did an exit at X or what have you the these kind of one time one hit wonders if you will um could be potentially a threat to people that would buy into them too quickly? Yeah. So would you say that um who's potentially lying more? Would it be creators lying to their audiences or audiences potentially lying to themselves? It's a really difficult one because there are some creators that I see where

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I know they're just naive. They've never really looked into it that much, but then there are others that are definitely Machavevelian. Then from an audience standpoint, there also can be audience capture where some people become the person they need to be for their audience. Eddie Abu, do you ever see him? >> Yeah. >> So, if you go back and I was saying to you before, I went back to your oldest podcast episodes and watched you eat [ __ ] for quite a lot of episodes. And for me, I love that cuz I see that

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brilliant person. >> No one does that, man. I love that. >> No, no, no. Go do my homework. It's the tism. And uh so Eddie Abu, me and him used to butttheads because he used to make claims. He used to speak in absolutes. And absolutes again are one of those things that actually I would accept them more in business. If someone goes, email marketing is the best thing for your business. I like I can get on with that. But when people go, you need to eat eggs to be healthy. I'm like,

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whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's a bit of an absolute. But if you go to Eddie Abu's earlier stuff back in the day, he was quite rational and he was pretty spot on. But then as he started saying crazier and crazier things and started screaming at a bag of potatoes in the shopping center and the aisle, you realize that he's taken that feedback and becoming who the audience want, not who the audience needs. And that audience capture can be a big thing. But it's always difficult to determine, you

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know, whether or not they're being evil or whether or not they're just stupid, >> right? If you think about that feedback loop though, like if someone's doing something and they're getting the immediate reward for, okay, the audience are responding to this, the algorithm is going great, I'm getting more paychecks and more sponsorship because of this, then would it mean that the Mavavelian part of you is just leaning into what tends to generate revenue versus what is actually in service of the audience?

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>> So, one interesting thing here is that I've found out uh over the last few years that I'm definitely a dopamine junkie. Like, >> are you and me both? No shadow of a doubt. So, I did an assessment for ADHD. Uh, but I'm not sure. There's definitely something up there. Something neurode divergent. You know, I joke and say it's cuz I was adopted. Uh, you know, there's just some wiring that's a bit [ __ ] up there. Maybe I didn't get loved enough as a child, so I need social media like,

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oh, dopamine. Oh, people like me. And um, so that dopamine side of me has definitely hijacked a few because the things I'm talking about I've been susceptive to myself. and one of which was getting uh caught up in vanity metrics on social media. So when I got to about 600,000 on Insta, in my head I was like, well, we got to get to a million now. And first thing out there for any aspiring content creators, the day you hit a million followers is the most underwhelming. I've done it three

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times. It's the most underwhelming thing ever. Even I'm sure the day you got your silver play button on YouTube, you're like, "This is [ __ ] amazing." Then a month later, you're like, "Is that it?" for for the million. My misses got me balloons and sat in the kitchen. And if anything, I think I was in a worse mood than usual because I realized I was just working towards a vanity metric for dopamine. And the dopamine was very shortlived. I think I was happier at 999

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than I was at 1 million. And so I I became the I got audience captured. I became more obsessed with going viral than I did with doing my job. Because when I started as a personal trainer, I said I'm going to use social media as a vessel to get clients. And I actually got lost instead and started growing my social accounts because, you know, I could go finish saying, "Oh, well, I've grew 3,000 followers this week." You know, in the big short where they're talking about the subprime mortgages.

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Yeah. >> I did that with the social media following. [laughter] >> Imagine this. The swimmer's body illusion I spoke about before. >> Yeah. >> My most viewed video on Tik Tok, 25 million views, 1 million followers from one video. >> And if I show you my stripe account, couldn't [ __ ] tell what do you know? Germany people in the world have grown by a million followers and you cannot see it in their stripe account. Not even like a little blip, nothing. So, I've

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I've done it. I've become audience captured. That's why I saw it so early on with Eddie Abu. I was like, "Bro, I've been I've been where you are." And it's even the last few years on my Instagram now. I joked about it before. I'm losing followers some months, maybe like you know 10,000 or whatever, but it's some of the subprime are leaving and I've never been more successful in business. And I actually couldn't tell you how many followers I lost because I

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haven't looked in over every year. It took me a while to actually re realign my values to be where okay what's actually important for me. It's clients, it's new business, it's leads, it's all of these things. But yeah, I spent maybe two years just trying to grow my audience. And I couldn't tell you what for apart from dopamine at the end of the day. And I I even see my friends falling into this now. I'm kind of saying to people and it sounds bit bit shallow. I'm like, if it doesn't show up

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in your Stripe account, I don't care. And I say that to, you know, be happy when your email list grows. Be happy when your clickthrough conversions go up. But until there's money in the bank, >> again, Newtonic absolutely love what we're doing. People go, "Oh, bro, you're killing it." I go, "No, we're not. There's no money. I'm actually minus hundreds of thousands of dollars with this investment." They go, "I bet you're valued at 20 million." I'm like, "Stop."

00:27:20

Unless it's in the bank account, unless we've won, that to me is winning. So when people are out there and they might be going, "Cool, I've grown my following." I'm like, "I respect that." But it's like getting a submission at training. Unless you go to competition and you sub someone of your equal ability and weight, it doesn't it doesn't count because that dude might not have even been trying that hard. He might have not slept last night. He might be on shift work as a firefighter.

00:27:42

He might have just been playing a position and let you take his back. Unless you get it where it matters, what's the point? The vanity metrics don't pay the bills. You can't go on Emirates and, you know, sit there and go, "Can I get an upgrade? have got a million followers. They don't give a [ __ ] No one does. So, uh I wish maybe I' I'd just had some And again, the reason I say this now is I really could have done with someone saying that before. And again, Adam Sullivan

00:28:06

schooled me with this. He's like, "Got half your following, but I got [ __ ] so much more money than you can." [laughter] Like, I was like, "Yeah, do you know what?" He uh he's actually someone. So, I had Adam blocked for a few years because I thought he was a prick and I actually thought some of our videos were a little bit too similar. And a couple years later, I unblocked him. I was like, "Sorry, mate. That's that's on me. I've obviously got some kind of insecurity." I actually said to

00:28:32

him, "I'm seeing you do better than me and I'm insecure about it, but now I'm fine about it, whatever." And when I met him in real life, I thought he's going to be a prick and he's actually that guy in real life. Have you met him? >> No. >> Yeah. I'll I'll get him down here. I'll tell him. I'll say, "Oh, come do the party." He'll get nervous. He gets nervous for podcasts. Um >> I'd love to meet him. >> Yeah, but

00:28:51

>> I've been following him for a while. >> I thought that energy that he had was just online. I thought he was just a persona. When there's no cameras about, I'll never forget. And this this has gassed me to make more money. We're in a restaurant and actually I I was a bit hung over. I said to him, "Let's go for a swim in the sea." He goes, "Yeah, cool. Let's go for a swim in the sea." Get in his car. He drives us to a restaurant. Orders some margaritas.

00:29:14

Thought we were going for a swim in the sea. He's like, "No." He's like, "I don't swim in the sea. We have about 10 margaritas and we need to go because we've got an event to go to." And he turns to the waitress and goes, "How big how big a tip do you want?" She goes, "Excuse me." He goes, "Pick your tip. Anything I'll pay." That was actually it was me that was paying it, but he was negotiating it. She goes, "Uh, 50 bucks." Slams his hand on the table. Not

00:29:36

enough. She goes, "100 bucks." He gets annoyed. Not enough. She was like, "Uh, $400." He was like, "Fine." And he goes, "I would have paid you anything." And he meant it. He meant it. He in his eyes, he was like having fun with that waitress. He was like, "I would have given you any tip." That night, he tipped the taxi driver $1,000 to go from Broad Beach to Broad Beach. We didn't even leave the area. Just tipped the guy $1,000. No cameras. No, there was none

00:30:01

of this. Put this on your story, bro. He just did it. And I was like, "Do you know what? I I would consider myself entrepreneurial, but I've never tipped a taxi driver $1,000." And it made me wake up the next day and I was like, you know what? I want a little bit of that energy in me. I'm you know what? I'm going to work so I can get to that. That was more motivating than any amount of followers than any like amount of balloons you get for a million followers. I was like, that's big dick energy. I've never seen

00:30:28

this piece, but that was big dick energy. And uh you know I took out of all the thing that and this was um doing an event with a an organization called clean health and there was loads of business owners and speakers doing stuff bit like you know how Gary Vee might have said one thing at that event that changed your life. Watching him do that without one camera on I was like oh I don't know if I want to do spin kicks and all of that stuff but that to me was probably one of the most inspiring

00:30:54

things I'd seen from an entrepreneur. >> What what do you think about that really really resonated with you? I think deep down a lot of us have uh a big desire to provide. I think that uh but that providing isn't just your family. You'll have it here with your staff. And uh I don't think some of us even realize this until like uh with anyone that works for me at the moment, which is much more team than yours. When I think about providing, it's making sure that if something goes wrong, if

00:31:24

their car breaks down, you could be like, "Hey bro, I'm going to buy you a car. You still got to pay me back, but don't worry about it. Whatever. For me, it's paying off friends credit card debts. It's getting people an upgrade on their flights. It's making sure that if anyone in in on this whole floor had financial hardship, you're like, "Bro, I've got you." Like, cool. 50ks in the account. Just go back when you can. So, that component of it, you have your family, you have your

00:31:49

friends, then you have your staff. No offense to your staff, but your friends and family are going to come first. But Adam's at a position where he can go wider than that. he can provide for a [ __ ] stranger that just so happened to be his taxi driver. And I think that as your level of wealth comes, you know, to a wider point, you can get to that. And I know uh Joe Rogan, I remember him, he was ripping into one of his friends. His friend said he doesn't tip. And he was like, "Bro, give him $1,000. You

00:32:15

won't feel it." He's like, "You he he got his backup about it. I'm not sure if it was like Brian Ken or something like that. He's like, "Bro, you you make loads of money. Just give him $1,000 every time you go to dinner." >> It was Brian Ken. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and seeing Joe like that as well, I was like, "Oh, do you know what? That's what I want. I want to be at dinner." Well, sometime it depends who I'm at dinner with. Where if I'm at

00:32:34

dinner with Adam, I'm like, he's buying this. But when I'm a friend when I [laughter] do, you know what? Actually, credit to him. It's going to sound like I'm sucking him off in this pod. But um we're in IA together and I would sneak off to pay the bill and I would get there and he'd be sat in the corner looking at me going, "I've already paid." [laughter] No, Matt. And this is a group of like 15 of my friends. He's the only person from Australia on the table. He's like, "I

00:32:59

[ __ ] paid it, cunt." >> Um, [laughter] >> so, uh, yeah, there's there's just always that kind of energy where >> when when you're going to dinner, you know you're getting it for everyone else. It's like a kind of weird thing. And again, it's a self- serving thing. We do it because it makes us feel good. >> People can say you want to look after your stuff. It's a selfish vendor. We do it because it makes us feel good. So, but I think deep down there will be so

00:33:21

many people potentially listening to this that go actually that is what I want. It is uh the fact that you know look after your parents. It's like my mom and dad wanted to downsize this year and I was like no. I was like absolutely not. I was like I grew up in this house. Selfish vendetta as well by the way because I spent every day of my life in this house. So even if my mom and dad are in Zimmer frames I don't want that to be in a different house. I want to come home and use my bathroom in my

00:33:44

bedroom. But either way I was like look you're staying in that house. I don't care what the mortgage costs, we'll pay it off, whatever. >> Yeah. >> So, those side of it as well, like um >> yeah, you can be very generous and selfish at the same time. That's the entrepreneurial dream. >> I like that. You can be generous and selfish at the same time. I like what you said there about energy. I think to myself, um, I remember I I worked for this guy, Henry, and he taught me more

00:34:10

about sales than like any book or anything I'd ever uh read because he was just all energy. And I remember him sharing with me this quote that he loved from Albert Einstein and says um uh everything is energy uh and that's all there is to it. Match the frequency of that which you want and you cannot help but have it. uh this isn't physics. Uh he said this isn't philosophy, this is physics. And every time I read this quote, it hits me because here is like one of the most iconic intelligent

00:34:43

people of like the human race talking about how frequency and energy is more valuable than kind of anything else. When you think about the frequency and the energy of spending time with someone like this or even like what you've accomplished yourself or friends in your circles, like what what is that that that people might not quite understand but would certainly need to tap into? >> It's it's a difficult one. I I definitely think at some point in my life I'll be due to do some therapy

00:35:13

sessions. But [laughter] the when you get when you have something that goes right or fortunate, you come to the reality that these opportunities don't happen for everyone. So it becomes a burden. It becomes a weight on the shoulders. And I know you probably felt this at some point too where the days that you don't really want to do it because they happen. There are days where you just can't be [ __ ] You think and you're like, "Oh, you could give not to chat [ __ ] about my friends.

00:35:34

You give them 100 years, but I don't think they could catch up with me. So I need to do this. I need to do everything. I need to make sure that everything's taken care of. Otherwise, it's never going to happen." Now that might not be true, but on the basis that it is true, that's what motivates me. if that makes sense. So, uh I think that's kind of a a deep rooted element of uh why people do what they do, why I do what I do, what the motivation behind that is. I would say that's where the

00:36:03

energy comes from. And I think that when I see other people with that energy, that's what gasses me up. And sometimes it could be peers, but sometimes it could be prospects because you can want the same thing and not be there yet. And so let's say you had a room here with hundred entrepreneurs that all want to do what what you do at the moment. You're still on the same wavelength. You're still on the same frequency. They're just five years behind, >> right? >> So

00:36:29

>> So you're saying that let's say you don't have the items or the rewards or the accolades yet, you can still get on that frequency now. >> You can see it in them. There's uh one lad who I just hired recently where he sent me a cold email and at the bottom he showed me the statistics from a tracking link on one YouTube video where he got three and a half thousand emails. It's like you're hired. It's like you can have a job. He speaks fluent YouTube and he got from a small channel three

00:36:53

and a half thousand emails from an organic video with no paid. And I thought this guy's obviously watched enough of my content see what I value and he's he's still at university and I said why do you want to do this? what do you want out of this? And then he was honest with me. He goes, "Well, if I help you for five years, then I can just use the success that you get to benefit my own career further on." I was like, "Perfect." I was like, "Milk away, brother."

00:37:16

>> Yeah. >> And being very honest. >> Yeah. And you and you can see it then. So, >> one thing I was saying, >> I did a a webinar yesterday. One thing again for people to potentially get maybe a bit excited about, some people think they need to be really far ahead of other people to give them advice. So for instance, I was late to this businessto business guru space because I hadn't didn't think I'd done enough. And most of my accolades were status related, not financial. So, what

00:37:47

I mean by that is I had been on all the big TV shows, done a lot of the big podcasts, three number one bestselling books, but I didn't have liquid millions in my bank account. So, I'd done the vanity metrics, but not the financial ones. And then I realized there was so many people that had done the financial one, but had none of the vanity metrics. And we were both on different sides of the fence, and we're both a little bit like, oh, you know, like Spider-Man both pointing at each other. [laughter]

00:38:11

They're like, I want to get spotted on the street. I'm like, I want a million dollars liquid in the bank account. So um then I I thought I kind of need to be at this position and then I came to realize and again there's a lot of tangents from fitness industry and to business but also from jiu-jitsu. So in jiu-jitsu is a white belt and a blue belt. Sometimes the black belt is so far ahead of you the advice they give you doesn't really make sense because they go oh just do this then do that but the

00:38:38

thing they just said to do easily I don't know how to do either. So the way of getting there I have no idea. Whereas if you talk to a purple belt, he was where you were just two years ago, >> right? >> The black belt's been a black belt for 15 years. So he hasn't been a blue belt for 20 years. Whereas the guy who's only two years ahead of you is, "Hey mate, basically next time you do that, put your foot here right where the pocket would be. Put your foot there and it

00:38:59

makes it easier to go over the top." Sometimes having someone that was in your shoes only a couple years ago is a way better mentor than the person who did it 18 years ago. the person that has the mastery. Again, if we look at someone like Daniel Priestley, he is I love him. Fantastic information, whatever. But where he's been building businesses that got 30 members of staff and, you know, all of these different departments, sometimes when I I unfortunately have to work with a lot of personal trainers. No offense to

00:39:26

personal trainers. They're just [ __ ] hard work. Like I say, most of them are in the industry because they look good. So when I work with those guys, sometimes I think I can help them better than other people because I was there 5 years ago. Whereas the people that have scaled businesses to hundreds of millions, they haven't been there for so long. So when you're in these fields, when you're in these realms and worlds or whatever, sometimes if you're only a little bit far removed from the

00:39:49

trenches, you could be a way better mentor, a way better coach, and a way better inspiration to someone than someone that used to be there 10, 15 years ago. And I think people overlook that a bit that almost you see it in training where a purple belt doesn't want to give you advice because he's not a black belt yet. where the reality is if he waits till black belt he's going to have such a period of time away from the trade and experience in that area that his advice is only going to get

00:40:12

worse as he gets closer to mastery which is one of the kind of most paradoxical things ever. So when you think about how people have the ambition right now to be more public on social media because what I've noticed in this space doing branding is 5 years ago I would encourage people hey you should start making content should be you know something you could consider to make leads for your business. The conversation at that point in time was convince me. Three years ago it was a bit more hey tell me more about this.

00:40:41

I'm kind of interested in how people are monetizing personal branding. Whereas now, pretty much every business owner I meet says to me, "I got to figure this thing out." What do you think is the temperament required for someone to truly embrace social media? >> You know, um I've got a theory on this and John, I hate the fact I keep bringing this back to Finn. I am sorry to anyone. >> It's okay, man. >> So, if you had a lagging body part, the first thing we do is give more volume.

00:41:05

That's it. So, oh, bro, my my legs aren't growing. Cool. Double the amount of volume. What do you mean? Well, how many sets of squats did a week? Four. Make it eight. Let me know in two months. >> So like eight set instead of four sets. >> Yeah. Just double the amount you give your legs. >> Not the weight the sets. >> Just just double literally double the amount of time work you do because by doubling the volume the intensity will come down a bit but we're just

00:41:25

allocating more volume. See if you had a lagging department here. Let's put another hire in there. Let's just add another member to the team. Real simple. Just add volume. So with the content side of things, one thing that I think is really powerful at the moment is to add volume. I know Daniel Priestley's got his seven hours, four platforms, 11 touch points, something like that. Google put out a study about collecting seven hours. I've come full circle back to this now. So, let's say uh you've got

00:41:51

any businesses and brands out there. I say to them, how long would it take me to listen to seven hours of your content? And if it's one minute video on Instagram and I see three of them a week, that could be two years. But if it's an 11 minute video on YouTube, it could be three months if I watch two or three a week. with a podcast even from today people are going to get two out of those seven hours. So with these uh people that thinking about social media how much they want to put their face and

00:42:19

their brand out there I'm now just bringing it back to basics and going it's a volume game ultimately now your first sets of squats are going to look like [ __ ] >> Well temperament I think I think what what I'd like to understand is like a lot of people talk about how they want to get on social media. So like maybe I'll split it into two questions. one being should everyone that has a business consider making social media content as a personal brand and then secondly um how can they better adjust

00:42:44

themselves to start that journey >> to answer question one uh have you seen I've seen them in Dubai and in Ireland now when you cross the road the green light is on the floor seen this >> yes I've seen videos of it I've not experienced it >> so if you had a business owner or a brand here >> and they go should I be on social media I go do you know do you know why that's on the floor because people are on their [ __ ] phone [laughter] that money. >> They're not looking up here. They're

00:43:07

looking down there. >> Oh, you want to spend money on a billboard, idiot. People are looking down, bro. They're on their phone. If you want to get in front of people, don't put a plane in the sky [ __ ] pulling your name across. Get it on a phone. So, the for me, social media easily has to be there. The second question, uh, again, we're going, it's only jiu-jitsu and fitness, the analogies I use. If I bring you to a jiu-jitsu gym, you start off as a white belt and the rule is you're going to be

00:43:31

[ __ ] [ __ ] for two years. Two years. What if I come more? Maybe one year. And then what? Then you're a blue belt. What does that mean? Well, you're less [ __ ] but still [ __ ] You're just better than the white belts. But the purple belt's going to [ __ ] munch you up all day. And then what? Oh, well then you'll be a purple belt. You'll be middle of the pack. How long have you been training now? Six years. Okay. What happens now? Brown belts kill you. Black belts slab

00:43:53

you up. But you now get to bully the white and blue belts. So in that realm and jiu-jitsu, people like that's fine. And with this again, welcome to jiu-jitsu. Your ears are going to get [ __ ] you're probably gonna blow an ACL. You're gonna dislocate a couple fingers. You're gonna get a black eye and probably have some kind of dental damage. People like, "Yeah, great. I'll do it for 10 years." When they come into the realm of content creation, they go, "So, uh, what do I do?" And I kind of

00:44:16

just want to say to people like, "Oh, just just be [ __ ] for two years." But they don't want to hear that. They want to hear, "Oh, can I not pay one of these guys?" Like, not really. Cadence, pacing, confidence. There's also a word I've been thrown around at the moment, aura. There are people I work with and they will eat [ __ ] for 11 12 months. Then one video will take off and it'll be a vanity metric and I'll remind them. I'll be like, "Hey, well done." But

00:44:42

until I see the clients come through from it, I don't really [ __ ] care. But then the next follow-up videos, they have an aura to them because they've now seen it work. They are a different person. When their first video, even an Instagram reel, hits a million views, they wake up the next day going, "This is going to work." There's belief there now. Before there was uncertainty. Now there's belief and people need to work really hard to get that first like aura shift. I would even go as far to say if

00:45:08

you could watch a I wish there was like a a postural assessment that you could do on people through different stages of success. Maybe first content creation, how you hold yourself, how you cross your legs, how upright you stand, the way you interact. I'm pretty sure if you observe people from afar, you can determine the status hierarchy from their posture alone. So Jordan Peterson said, "You put lobsters in a bucket, they'll, you know, get into a status hierarchy." Humans do it, too. The

00:45:36

cadence of speaking, the tone of voice, uh, uh, who mirrors who, uh, all of these things, the very little subtle tones in status, but I honestly think you could notice it when someone's had a video that's popped off. The next video they're in, the way they present themselves is just different. They just find that little bit of flow state because they don't go into that video as, "Hi, my name's James and I've never had a video do well." They're like, "I

00:46:02

just hit a million. How can I do better?" Same way that probably people that have grown loads of businesses get to a position where the next business they're in, they hit turmoil. They're like, "We're fine." They have that flow. They know they can do it. They've got the belief. You can't fake [snorts] that aura. So, people need to go on that journey of eating [ __ ] to get that. And again, the blue belt is earned through eating [ __ ] There's no other way to do

00:46:28

it. There's there's literally no other way. You can get it through tenure, sure, but ultimately, even if you go to the gym and you're not a competitive athlete, you're still going to get beaten up. Everyone's going to see your white belt and they're going to come for you because they were a white belt once. So, it's one of those things where I think people if they could just cozy up with that, you know, like you wear braces for like two years, takes two years to straighten your teeth, bro.

00:46:53

You're not going to get amazing at content in [ __ ] eight weeks. And even if they did like a crash course or whatever, learning to drive takes months. Even Australia, you only have two pedals in Australia. Back in my day in the UK, we had we had manuals. We had a clutch. I had to get in the car and go, "Dad, what is that? [laughter] What is that third pedal? Go stop. What the [ __ ] is that? >> Yeah. >> So, uh, yeah, that's that's really the message. But again, this isn't what

00:47:19

people want to hear. >> They don't want to hear, "What do you mean I've got to be [ __ ] for two years?" But good news is a lot of these business owners, I'm like, "Mate, your mortgage is paid. You got a hot wife. You drive a lovely car. You got two kids. It's okay to be [ __ ] at content." And I think that's where jiu-jitsu helps so many people where they turn up to something in their life they're truly awful at, but they leave and they go home to their

00:47:38

beautiful family and go, "Oh, I'm fine." So when something goes wrong at work, they go, do you know what? This is just an occasion that's happening in a small part of my life. It's not everything. >> When when you think about people that are nervous to take that first leap, and the jiu-jitsu analogy is fantastic. Um, eating [ __ ] is something that people are scared of, and >> doesn't sound too appealing, does it? >> Doesn't sound too appealing. However,

00:48:04

you're saying there's no shortcut, there's no hack, there's no uh bypass. It's just you have to go through the obstacle. There's no way around it. When when you think about the things people are going to learn on that journey, what are some things that they can be aware of that might help them uh not not eat [ __ ] but be aware of what's happening as it's happening? >> So, the first thing is that everyone seems to think that confidence is a precursor to action, but it's inverse.

00:48:31

The only way you get confident is through doing it first, then enduring it. someone's that are just want to find the confidence to do content. You're like, "No, no, no. That's not how this works." You do you do you do it first, then you find the confidence later. The second thing is eating [ __ ] is actually amazing because every time you do it, there's a little bit of feedback. So again, jiu-jitsu, sorry. Every time you make a mistake, you get submitted. But a submission isn't bad. It's like your arm

00:48:58

being straightened or your wrist being bent or an arm going around your neck and someone squeezing. But every time there's a signal to your brain shouldn't have done that. that was a mistake. So next time that happens, you go, "Cool. I'm not going to put my hand in that place." Then you go down a different path of a mistake or whatever. But every time you get submitted, there's no real harm that's done to you. This is why I love it as a sport. In boxing, if you don't put a glove up, you're getting

00:49:20

cracked in the temple. Even in light sparring, there's a little bit of CTE that just happened. In jiu-jitsu, you laugh, you slap hands, you bump with your partner, you go again. And you can just keep failing, keep failing, keep failing. Then eventually, you get past that point. Similar to if you play chess, you might make it three, four moves before you get a pawn taken or whatever and then suddenly you anticipate the move, they come for your pawn, you take theirs. That is the whole way up. So with content, your video

00:49:47

bombs, okay, watch it back. What was the issue? Oh, a bit of feedback. People left here. Why? Why was the click-through rate poor? Why was this? It's only with those bits of content that you can then start to get the feedback necessary. Same way that you know even chatting people up when you're younger, you might go in too zealously, they back off. You might be too nonulant and never get the date. It's only through getting all these bits of feedback that we can create a style. You did uh sales for a long time.

00:50:15

>> Yeah, a long time. >> So, you would have had so many pitches that just bomb >> heaps. >> And it's only through that you go, I probably should have got to it quicker. You walk away, you tried to close too early or your approach was wrong. So I did um uh first I worked in a pub which was great because it got me talking to strangers and the guy that ran the bar with me it was a pub next to a caravan site. So we had some interesting people in there and um he was like shake hands

00:50:42

with the members when they come in. So every time someone came in and then just trying to remember their drinks and the way they were like yeah whatever John Smith thanks. Then I worked in shopping centers stopping people in the shopping centers selling them stuff and I got so much feedback pretty much being told to [ __ ] off that when I went into doorto-door sales it was a breeze and uh I was selling gas and electric for a company called Empire in the UK and uh every time I knocked on a door I got

00:51:07

a brand new opportunity and the thing is I never had to knock on a door twice. Same way with content you don't have to do the same video twice. You probably do the same idea twice once you've done that video that piece of content you've sent it. Even if it's bombed, it's behind you. Now, the next the next video you put out, you're not going to be the same person. You're going to be one video more experienced, one video, you know, more educated or the more comfortable in

00:51:31

front of camera. The repetitions, the reps, you It's very rare that you're going to knock on doors for a month. I'm going to come back and you're worse. It's very rare that you're going to cold pitch to businesses for a month. I'm going to come back and you're worst. even if you haven't had any success which again would be another thing to reframe success as doing the thing not winning. So for instance uh doing these doing these door knocking in Gloucester which at the time was hell looking back

00:51:57

I'm like that was great. Uh I remember one day I tried to quit. I slipped on a bit of ice cracked my laptop and I was like [ __ ] this man. I went and sat in the car called my boss and he was driving. And he pulls over and he goes, "Uh, Jamie, is it?" I was like, "No, James Smith." James Smith. All right. Oh, yeah. Well, Jamie, mate, let me get up. It's James. Yeah. Cheers. Cool. He goes through it and he goes, "Well, according to your data, you get one sale every hundred doors." I went, "Yeah." He

00:52:25

goes, "How many more sales do you need for the day?" I was like, "Two." He's like, "Right, we'll knock on 200 more [ __ ] doors then. Put the phone down." [laughter] I was like I was like, "Do you know what? Now he's put it like that." Went and knocked on the next door, got told to [ __ ] off. I was at 199 left. >> Yeah. >> And my focus went more on people saying no to then when someone went, "Do you know what? Come in. British Gas just put

00:52:47

our rates up." I was I was shocked. I became so focused on getting nos from people that when a yes came, I was like, "Well, that's bloody pleasant." And again, for this content creation, people are going to be sat there in a comfortable environment in their house or in their studio or in their office. They're going to talk down the lens of a DSLR camera into the black glass disc, which is kind of weird. And if it bombs, no one's going to see it. That's it. Whereas in a shopping center, people

00:53:14

pretend you're invisible. They say, "No thanks." On a door, people tell you to [ __ ] off. People say, "Get a real job. I thought you were here to read the meter." You know, the reactions and stuff you get in real life. Online, people just swipe past it or the algorithm will never even show it to them in the first place. The consequences, uh, there's something called a pirick victory. And to uh encapsulate a pirick victory, there's a picture of a dog jumping off a cliff to

00:53:39

get a bird. So it's victory for the dog, but it's cost him his his life. And a pirick victory is if you go to battle and you all die to win the war or to win the battle, it wasn't worth it because you were tantamount to defeat and achieving victory. But in reality, none of that's ever going to happen. You're not losing anything by putting yourself out there in content. It's not like every video you put out you shorten your life or anything like that. It's just an attempt. You will get better.

00:54:09

Unfortunately, you will eat [ __ ] But if you can just smile and rub it off, like got people in jiu-jitsu, CEOs, multi-millionaires, you got Tom Hardy, then you've got a high school teacher. When they lose, they smile, they take the feedback, they get up, they continue. They don't choose to be humiliated, they choose to be educated. Now you talk about how the internet at large people tend to not care about you or your story so much as they care about themselves. When you think about this

00:54:38

knocking on door concepts, obviously the more content you make, the more feedback, the better you can get. You compound your failures. You learn what works and what doesn't work. I understand that much when when when you think about how people knee-jerk reaction to that kind of advice is like, "Yeah, I'll get around to it." Like, "Maybe later." Like, this they're still not open-minded to it. Perhaps when when you think about the initial feedback from someone when

00:55:05

you're trying to give them these these tips in that moment, they they do tend to go back to like more of a traumatic experience or from like having done it once or twice before. Why is it that people on the internet don't care as much about you? They care more about themselves. And then how do you help people better understand the dynamic of how that really runs the algorithm? >> So, first question, uh, there was a lady out there, one of your members of staff. She goes, "I follow you. I really like

00:55:33

your stuff." If we were to go back in time and we were to remove every single time that I'd helped her in some way. Now, that help could be quote unquote uh education, calling out BS, humor, entertainment. We take out those those little instances. James, help me here. James, help me here. James, help me here. If we just take out all the times that I helped her, I'm just a [ __ ] in a Porsche. I am. [laughter] If she'd seen me go down Kent Street this morning in first gear with my custom exhaust,

00:56:00

she would have gone, "What a [ __ ] knob." But [laughter] we put back in all those times I've helped her and she's going so far a legend. It's only because of that. So I like to remind people that anyone out there if they ever think that I've helped them or if they think they like me or they are drawn to my brand, it's only because all those instances >> you've done something for them. >> Yes, that is it. And even dare I say it for you. People that love this podcast,

00:56:28

they love what you do for them. And what you do for them is you bring in people such as myself and people a lot smarter. You ask the right questions in the right way. You also respect them by having a technical setup with having mics right next to the face, by having three cameras, by paying attention to the edits, by curating it, by having a posting schedule. You are doing so much for them. This isn't cheap. The studio, you got the rent, you got the lights, you got all of these things. You are

00:56:53

doing it for them. Now, in return, you are promoting your own stuff. You are running your own business. Cool. But maybe 5% of your audience, let's say, buy your stuff. The other 90%, you're just subservient to them helping them out. Again, if they see you in the street, they're going to go, "Mate, [ __ ] legend. Love the podcast." Whatever. I joke, I [ __ ] on Chris a bit. Chris Williamson. I go, "Bro, all this guy does is ask questions." I go, "You don't love Chris Williamson. You love

00:57:16

the questions he asks." >> Yeah. >> I was like, "Mate, this is the biggest con in the world being a podcast host." I was like, "You get people to love you for asking the right questions." And like, you know, so I'm not going to [ __ ] too much [laughter] here. So, >> um, I like to remind people that, yeah, no one cares about you and and that that's okay. They care about themselves. So, let's say, um, let's remove this from context. No jiu-jitsu, no fitness.

00:57:37

There's a person on TikTok called Terry the Tyler and he tiles bathrooms and I love watching his content. I never plan on tiling a bathroom in my life. I just like the process. And I was talking to someone who does something similar, does bathroom transformations, went onto his Instagram and he shows all these amazing bathrooms. I go, "Bro, you [ __ ] up." I go, I need to see before and I need to see after. And I need the transformation of that. And I said, the reason is when I see that transformation, I don't give

00:58:04

a [ __ ] about that person's house. I don't give a [ __ ] about how their bathroom looked before. I don't give a [ __ ] about how it looks after. But do you know what? I do give a [ __ ] about my bathroom. And when I look at that transformation, I've seen my bathroom. And I see how mine can relate to the before and how my wants and needs relate to the after. In fitness, a PT shows off a client that lost 40 kg. I don't give a [ __ ] about Trish when she was 140. And you know what? I don't give a [ __ ] about

00:58:27

Trish at 100. Do you know what I care about? I've got 40 kgs to lose and if it works for her, it will [ __ ] work for me. Same way that if I'm watching a vlog or whatever it is, if people could just understand that it's their own transformative journey they care about. So when you share other transformative journeys, when you're showing your prospects things that you've done with your clients, they don't care about you, they don't care about your client, they just care about themselves. So you show

00:58:50

them that journey so their self-centered part of them can connect to it. And again, like it sounds like a really depressing kind of thing way to approach content, but it's so simple that when you start a video saying, "This is my favorite breakfast and it helped me lose 5 kilograms in the last month." All you need to do is go, if you're someone that wants to lose weight and have an amazing breakfast, you should try eating this every day because I just ate it and I managed to lose 4 kg over four months or

00:59:19

over the last month. And if you eat it, not only will you love it, you could get the same results. You are taking the same story but just framing it to that person rather than how I made $10 million this year. You would say do these 21 things to make $10 million in your first year. You're just reframing things so people can see it themselves. And if you can help people enough with those different things, they will be under this weird illusion that they like you. And that's fine. This is

00:59:44

okay. The dance we do even in relationships, right? You're married, right? >> Uh engaged. We should be married. We've been together for 10 years. >> Yeah, same. I got the dog and the child. I keep pushing it back. kids. >> We've been together 10 years. We're about to buy a house. Still not married. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, uh your fiance, there is an agreement between both of you where you actually have a responsibility to solve problems for the other party. That is

01:00:07

actually what you do. You provide she may you have your roles, right? If one of you fails to fulfill the other person's needs, you end up splitting. So, even the most loving of relationships are bonded with our own needs and wants. And that's okay. And actually, you need to care about yourself so much that you are a successful providing man who is happy. And she needs to be so [ __ ] selfish that all she cares about is having you in her life to solve all her problems. And that makes it sound like a really

01:00:35

bad thing. But if you can both have shared values, but both be incredibly self-centered, you can love each other. Because if one of you fails to be self-centered, if one of you fails to do what you need to do to make yourself happy, you end up draining on the other person. And I think there's something kind of beautiful to this thing that we are all self-centered. Even philanthropic people, you know, I joked before by being generous and providing for other people, you're doing it because it

01:00:59

makes you feel good. And that's okay. It means you're wired correctly. >> I would agree. Even the mother Teresa did what she did for her own needs. >> Yeah. And and this real just human psychology. And when you can you can understand that people that give to charity, they're mainly doing it because it makes them feel good. And that's completely fine. and the charity still needs the money. So with your content, just make sure it solves their problem because people watch vlogs. They might

01:01:24

watch a Logan Paul vlog and go, "I love Logan Paul. I love his vlogs. I'm going to do a vlog." You go, "No, Logan is a very sophisticated storyteller who's making a piece of content. He's putting a digital asset on the internet where he's got lots of things that are going to solve your problem of needing entertainment." Again, you remove Logan Paul's vlogs, he's just a [ __ ] 6'2 dude with blonde hair going bald with the quiff. Him and Jake. Me, too. It's

01:01:46

all right, brothers. You know, like just keep trying to grow the front bit and do it across. I did it for years. So, >> in that people's content creation journey, >> people say to me, like ideating content, whatever, stop. What problem are you solving for them? >> What what the problem are you solving for them? Because human beings are problem solvers ultimately. And if you can solve people's problems enough, they'll pretty much just come to you and say, "Cool, where can I join? How can I

01:02:11

how can I help?" And if you want people to really like your brand, just solve their problems. I I love what you're saying here because I think your objective is to essentially act in service either that of entertainment that of making their day brighter, better, solving a problem like you said. When we think about the next step from that, like do people typically ask the question, well, okay, great, but how do I then monetize it? Do do you think that if people are too caught up in the monetization component that they can

01:02:36

lose the magic or the aura of the content? >> Okay, so I've this is another thing I've been working on and this has got a name. I call it the pyramid of attribution or it could be the attribution pyramid. I don't even know which way it goes. So even at probably peak one to one and a half% of my following is doing business with me at any given point. So I say 1% people like that's not a lot. Hold on. 11,400. If you're not living a very comfortable life with that many clients, you [ __ ] up

01:03:02

somewhere. So if we look at that pyramid, right, and only the top 1% are doing business with you, a lot of people think that's a bad pyramid. I'm like, no, that's that's an amazing pyramid. And also I would say that's indicative of pretty good statistics on a good converting landing page. I think that 1% conversion on a mass scale is pretty good. I think it's easier to go from you if say you need a sale. You send 100 people. Everyone's like, "How do I get my conversions up?" I'm like, "Actually,

01:03:27

bro, the easiest thing just send another 100 people, you know, rather than fixating so much. I know that your marketing brains can be like, no, we could AB split test. We could do dark mode. We can move the VSSL. We can change the header." I would actually tend to agree with you because uh recently Alex Hamosi was talking about this and I had a meeting with my marketing team because our team were like fixating on conversions and I was like guys what about volume? >> You know what I mean? Like like

01:03:48

>> remember I said add more volume. >> 1% of 2,000 is better than 1% of 1,000. >> Can I just uh have a little pop at Alexi? Don't don't let me forget the pyramid attribution. >> We're friends at the other day. But go ahead. >> He tells people to niche. >> Yes. >> You ever seen him niche? >> No. [laughter] the biggest [ __ ] mass market [ __ ] entrepreneur in the world with millions and millions of followers putting out 300 pieces of content a

01:04:10

week. He's telling me to niche. You just sold 2.7 million books in a [ __ ] day, mate. You're telling me to niche? You [ __ ] sell to any person who's got a [ __ ] bank account. Don't tell me to niche, Alex. You are the anti-niche. You are the least niche business guru that's ever gone. Literally, he will sell anything to anyone. He got people to buy like 20 books each or whatever he was doing. Don't tell me to niche, bro. You don't niche. You never niche. >> What's the dangers of niching?

01:04:35

>> People niche too much. And also, I think people niche to the person, not the problem. >> Oh, I like this. Okay, explain that. >> So, uh, some people say to me, um, I want to work with moms, uh, to help them lose weight, get in shape, feel better. >> Right. So, they're niching to a person >> and I go, cool. I go, tell me about that person. They go, oh, never putting themselves first, not sleeping enough, tired, probably needs to take do a bit more selfcare. uh you know all of these

01:05:00

things I go oh so just like a nurse and they go oh yeah I suppose nurses don't put themselves first they've got horrible shifts they probably don't eat that well we could probably do I was like but if you niched to the to the person you're like hey if you're tired you're not putting yourself first and your sleep's a bit [ __ ] so there's nothing you can do about it maybe we work around that and we put together a solution for you because then the nurse can see it and go perfect the mother can

01:05:22

see it and go perfect then the person that works in [ __ ] ambulance shift can see it and go perfect but if you go I help busy moms between 30 and 45, get in shape. And I'm like, no, because you will potentially be attracted to those people. But I think you're better to niche on the problem, not the person. >> And by doing that, you're shooting yourself in the foot by kind of excluding those that might might find you interesting. >> I did a rant yesterday where someone's

01:05:44

like, "Oh, I want to I want to help dads get back into shape." And I'm like, "Cool." I'm like, "Do you know who's happy to be fat? Dads." Do you know why? Because they got beautiful children in front of them. They got a partner who's going through their own recovery from being pregnant. if he gets a six-pack while she's three months postnatal, she's gonna [ __ ] kill him. I was like, "Leave the dads alone." I go, "Do you know who needs to get in shape? Fat

01:06:05

lossers in their 20s that don't have girlfriends." So, I was like, "Don't go after [ __ ] dads." Because if you go out there helping dudes get in better shape, some dads will come to you. The rest of them will go, "Fuck off, mate. Come back in two years." But if you go out there trying to help men, not busy dads, but men, you're going to have a 28-year-old who needs to lose about 15 kg because he's playing too many video games, drinking, smoking weed during the

01:06:26

week, and he's still single, and if he doesn't sort his life out, he's going to have a childless existence for the rest of his life because he is not much of enough of a man to find a good enough woman for his standards. I'm like, that's the man that pays you, listens to you, does your [ __ ] workouts, and gives you a good testimonial. So, he just went, "Oh, cuz I'm a dad could work with busy dads." I'm like, think about real problems that are out there. If you

01:06:46

want to niche, niche those problems. If you're a man, you're out of shape. You're not adding enough value to women in your life or may not have women in your life. So, always niche to the problems that people solve. So, I say to people, I go, I help small businesses make more money online using social media. What's a small business? I don't [ __ ] know. I just don't want Oracle coming to me for help cuz I can't help you, brother. And then make more money. How much is that? I don't [ __ ] know.

01:07:13

If it was 100K, yeah, come on in. 10 mil, come on in. Don't care. Uh, online, what does that mean? I don't know. Is it email marketing? Is it landing pages? Is it social media? I don't care. And the worst case is if I attract the wrong people within the first day, I'll go, "Here's your money back. You're the wrong person." What I don't want to do is if you're a fitness business earning between 100 to 300K and you're left-handed, then join my G. You know,

01:07:36

[laughter] like it just There's one woman online at the moment [clears throat] who's like, "Hey, lesbians, if you want to get in shape." I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, [laughter] whoa. Let's calm down here. Your sexuality is not interfering with your calorie equation. >> So, back to the pyramid attribution. So, some people get very caught up in the fact that just 1% of people are doing business with them. And I say, well, first of all, that's fine. And the first

01:07:59

thing that I have is call it the fist bump effect. I go, you have to be cool with people coming up to you and giving you a fist bump that say they love your stuff and have never bought from you. Now, some marketers could say it's a wasted conversion. you know, oh well, if you' done this better, they could have bought from you. I go, no, no, no. Because algorithmically, you need the 99% of people that don't buy from you. If you try and niche too hard and you try and make content too specific to

01:08:24

dads, the number of dads who are going to resonate with your content is too small for the larger algorithm to score it as being good. You need to be broad with a lot of things you talk about because the 99% of people that never buy your [ __ ] if they enjoy that and they watch it through, the algorithm is going to go, people are enjoying this and it's going to find you more 1 percententers, >> right? It's almost like a you're renting a crowd, right? You're paying this extra

01:08:48

money, the surplus to be like, ah man, I got to spend all this time and money and energy and resources for the 99% that never buy, but by paying that rent, they're feeding the algorithm and pointing more people of that 1% back to you. >> Exactly same. this podcast for instance, let's say you were to sit there and go, >> "Oh, guys, uh, the last episode we got 100,000 downloads. We only got 1,000 leads. [ __ ] hell. Let's niche the podcast down so we can get more." I'm

01:09:12

like, "No, bro. Like, let's just try and grow the podcast to get a million views. How are we going to do that? Let's put a trailer on it, you know? Let's do this. Let's do that." Suddenly, you go to a million views, you're 1%, you now got 10,000 leads. So, people that try and niche down, they try and talk in in too many terms to attract that person. Hey dad, with your two kids at home, feeling deflated as your wife's gone back to work, you feeling most people see that

01:09:34

and they go, I'm not a dad. See you. I'm not I haven't got two kids. No, I actually don't do that. Boom. Algorithm sees the video, goes, this is [ __ ] Never get any reach. And those businesses struggle. Whereas if they had just made a piece of content that helps everyone, they can go far and wide, get shown algorithmically, have people sign up to the chatbot, get people onto their email list, and then maybe they're going through the emails go, you know what? I don't think this guy's right for me. But

01:09:56

it can happen further down the stages rather than straight away people being turned off by the content. And actually, you can be broad as you like at that top part of the funnel. You can start to niche down your offers as you get closer. You could start to have several offers on your uh email marketing or you could have a landing page. You can have people siphon out, but to lose them so early on in the journey by trying to niche too much to me is just ridiculous. And that's one of the things that I

01:10:20

hate. And and when I say to people like looking at that pyramid again, if you want that 1% to grow, rather than fixating on that, just make the whole pyramid bigger. Grow the audience because so many benefits come with that as well. Once you hit 10,000 on Insta, people just think you're less likely to scam. It's a vanity metric, but I don't know what it is. I say to people, be careful buying the blue tick before 10k. It looks sus as [ __ ] 9,950 followers. Blue tick. I might bought it. 10,100

01:10:49

followers. 10.1K. I'm like, looks legit, right? There is there are certain things to it. But yeah, I absolutely would do everything in my power to try and take you from 1% to 2%. But at the same time, just keep making the pyramid bigger. And that's why I think a lot of brands, you can do it synergistically, but so many brands look to try and what they actually do is they try and make the pyramid smaller and they try and make that 1% bigger at the same time. I think completely go the other way. Now,

01:11:14

something you said while you're trying to grow your pyramid, you're trying to make it bigger, is that education isn't enough, you must arm your audience. What's the difference between giving people knowledge and then giving them power? >> Okay. One thing I would say as well with this point for the education piece, TED talks do really well. Standup comedy does really well, but if you watch a TED talk, you get bored. If you watch standup, you feel unproductive. If you can intertwine

01:11:43

humor, only if you've got humor, if you can intertwine that into what you do, you can go on a cadence between being educational, then you can have some fun. I did a creatine video where I was trying to explain to people how big a dough should be, and it should be about 5 grams, but if you're a bit bigger, it should be a little bit more. And as I was just doing content, this probably just come from years of doing it. I turned to the camera and said, "If you're the type of guy to walk around

01:12:08

Thailand and have the girl say, "Oh, big boy. You probably need a little bit more than five grams." All the comments on that were like, "Bro, the big boy comment got me. I'm following you from that." Like something just ad hoc cuz you walk through like Bangkok and they're, "Oh, big boy, big boy." And you're like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, join. Maybe I am." You'd get it a lot. 6'4. So, if you can just put those little cadence breaks in there, you can make

01:12:31

education fun. Same way. Um, do you know Matt Armstrong? >> No. >> YouTuber from the UK. Re rebuilds crash damage cars. He gets >> Oh, I know this guy. I have seen his content. I just didn't know his name. >> Unbelievable. And now to some people, they think it's entertainment because nice cars, building it. His dad's actually the funniest character out of the whole thing. His dad's just a bit of a a geek, whatever. But then the educational component, you don't even

01:12:58

realize you're learning about prop shafts, sumps, uh, spark plugs, doors, hinges, wraps, all of that. You don't even realize there's a perfect symphony of education and entertainment put together. Then he has a storytelling element where he uses dramatic music and he I think he's watched a lot of Top Gear. So he will raise the stakes and be like, "We've got seven days to rebuild this car." He'll press start on the stopwatch just to let people know he's got as long as he [ __ ] wants. He's a

01:13:21

YouTuber. He can do what he wants. He's like, "We have seven days to do this car before it gets a tune on Monday." Bro, you got 5 million subscribers. You can push the tune place back a day. all of the stuff he does, the dram dramatization of it. Now, people watching it, they're not just getting entertained. They're leaving going, I know what a dry sump is. You know, like in the Matrix where it's like, I just learned kung fu. It's like people watch his content, they're sucked into it.

01:13:44

>> That's the best analogy is like, I just learned kung fu and I didn't [laughter] realize it. >> Yeah. >> Uh have you seen uh one of the uh one of the best kind of >> lessons on uh content arc? Have you ever heard of a channel called Carwell? It's English. Carw Wow. No. >> So, imagine this. There's >> like C A R W. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> So, it's about 10 and a half million subscribers and they're a company in the UK that help you buy and sell a car,

01:14:09

>> which is pretty weird. But in Australia, first of all, you guys are [ __ ] backwards where if you want to sell a car, you get an A4 bit of paper, you write on it with a felt tip for sale, and you park it on the grass outside your local park. [laughter] >> I'm like, do you do you that you might as well be that dude on the clipboard back in Fitness First. So you guys are a bit backwards when it comes to selling cars. >> I would agree, man. It's not a great idea. >> In the UK, we had a website called We

01:14:32

Buy Any Car and guess what they do? >> They buy any car. Yeah. So cool. But Car Wow came along and wanted to do it better. They want to offer you more money for their car. Now when they go to YouTube, they go, "No one gives a [ __ ] about this." So they went, "Who is our audience? Automate automotive fans. So what are we going to do? We're going to do drag races." So they just drag race different cars and promote their business that buys and sells cars. Every single thumbnail on the channel is the

01:14:57

two cars that go to drag race. And it'll be like a McLaren 720LT and a Porsche 911 GT3 RS, something like that. And the title just says, "What wins in a drag race between these two?" And straight away you've got the curiosity. I know exactly what the video is about. Every single title and thumbnail is pretty much the same. Or they might get four Nissan GTRs of different generations. Which Nissan GTR is the fastest? The type of thumbnail that you see, you go, I don't care. Then 10 seconds later, you

01:15:24

go, "Yes, I do." You click on it, the video is perfect. Hook: What wins in a drag race between a McLaren 720 LT and a Porsche 91 G3 RS? Well, today we're going to find out. My name is Matt Watson. Welcome to Carow. Introduction done. Hook. Now, before getting into the drag race, they go into the setup. And the setup on every video is perfect. You didn't ask for it, but you get it. They tell you the engine, the size, the horsepower, the torque, the price, and how many wheel drive is. Now, at the

01:15:54

beginning, you might have only cared what won the drag race, but as they're going through the setup, you're now starting to make your own predictions. What's going to win? You go, "Oh, well, the McLaren's allwheel drive. The Porsche is only rear wheel drive. The McLaren's 1.7 tons. The Porsche is only 1.4." So, as they're doing the setup, you're becoming more invested in the payoff, not less. So, some people might think this is just the boring part, but this isn't. This is you learning. And

01:16:15

the reason that I now know that uh you know a new Mercedes C63's got a four-cylinder 2 L hybrid turbo is because I watched these videos. I didn't want to learn what engine was in the car. I wanted to know what was [ __ ] quicker. [laughter] But I've now learned as a byproduct of the the entertainment, the education being intertwined. Then just before they get to the drag race, taking part from ad read. If you're thinking of buying and selling a car, head to carb.com. So the ad is in the perfect place. They do

01:16:44

it before the setup, people probably leave. They do it after the payoff, people have already gone. Then they do the drag race. And then just after the drag race, they then do a break test and they do a rolling start from 30 mph, whatever it is. They've repeated the exact same video hundreds of times. They've got 11 million subscribers on their YouTube channel and they no doubt have grown the business to a massive scale. Same hook, same setup, same payoff, same principle, same thumbnail,

01:17:09

same title for everything. And that is the perfect component of education, but also entertainment. The education in the setup, but then there's also idiosyncratic personalities, the people in the cars, the presenter, all of those things. Same with Matt Armstrong. They have that perfect combination of where education meets humor or even at least entertainment in the sense that you're watching people, you're seeing people fix things, that transformative effect. Some people would look at that car and they wouldn't even

01:17:42

just care about that car. They'd care about themselves having that car. So all those kind of different things we spoken about all kind of intertwined together. And that's what makes people, you know, you're talking about knowledge and power. If you can make it entertaining, the pursuit of obtaining knowledge, if you can make that entertaining and interesting, people will feel drawn to it. I don't think that people enough are trying to combine the two. Um, now when you're thinking about creating the

01:18:11

content, looking at that first 5 10 seconds and making sure that the the right ingredients are there, how do you then um correlate through to I guess conversion? Like like how how do you make sure your clients are better gearing themselves to make profit off the content they're making? And is there a difference between content that just gets views and content that converts? >> Yeah. So, um, I've learned a bit of this from a guy called Ed Lawrence. So, I'll have to credit him. >> Ed Lauren.

01:18:38

>> Ed Lawrence. >> Yeah. >> YouTube a guru. Uh, and I give him a lot of credit because I was actually going through a bit of a brand slump where I was like, am I a PT? Am I an entrepreneur? Like, I didn't know what I was doing. And he helped me with my YouTube and by doubling down on my YouTube, I became better at everything else. And he put it perfectly best where he goes, "You're using content to recruit goodwill and you can't quantify goodwill. It's just there in the ether

01:19:03

and eventually when you ask for a call to action if you've accred enough goodwill they will do it. If you haven't acred enough goodwill they won't simp. Now it's quite hard to quantify subjective measures like goodwill. So a lot of what we're doing on content is to do that. Now I think that some content should be based around views like mainstream and some shouldn't. And the best way to think about segmenting it is to segment it into content buckets. So Mr. Beast, for instance, does the same

01:19:31

seven videos over and over again. Last to leave, 24 hours in, cheapest versus most expensive, worst versus best, and a few others. Then they'll just change the one component. Last one to leave the private jet gets to keep it. Last one to leave the Lamborghini gets to keep it. Last one to leave whatever. >> I didn't know he only had seven buckets. >> Yeah. If you go, there might be a few more. Might be like nine. But if you go through, they're all the same repetitions. >> He kind of has like recipes, if you

01:19:55

will, >> because he would almost be an idiot to go away from that. M >> you know what I mean? So like if those are working, why stop? >> Mhm. >> Ed Lawrence, if you go look at his last videos, >> he's only been using like five different titles every single time. If everything the podcast, you're actually doing the exact same thing. You're just changing the gas. So the studio stays the same, pacing, intro, ad reads, whatever. So so many people think that every video needs

01:20:20

to be original. If anything, I'm the only thing that changed from this video and the last one. So Mr. Beast just changes the jet for a Lamborghini. So, everyone has these content buckets. Now, depending on where you are in your kind of brand journey, again, [ __ ] hate it. Actually, let's use jiu-jitsu for this because fitness has got too much. So, in jiu-jitsu, I would do uh one video on submissions, one video on passing, one video on what I would call pop culture. If someone gets submitted

01:20:45

with something in a competition that gets everyone to go, I want you reacting to that an hour after it happened. I want the video on YouTube. I want the title to be like how did uh how did Joseph Chen get submitted by Barbosa so easily? Uh is this the first time the sub's ever been done? Something pop culture because people that don't follow you will want to know. For instance, an example of this was when Liver King got popped by Derek from More Place, More Dates. I had said to people for ages

01:21:12

Liver King's on steroids. Everyone was like whatever. I was in Bondai Junction. I see Derek's video go live. I watched it on two times speed and I ran home. >> Can you can you just dive into this because I think a lot of people know that he got I guess roasted and rinsed out in the media, but not everyone fully understands the dynamics of what happens. >> So, Liver King uh built a big like over hund00 million empire of supplements based around liver 10 ancestral settlements, etc. Said he was natural.

01:21:43

It was very clear to anyone from the fitness industry he was on anabolics. He didn't even have godlike genetics. He was far beyond that. Then what was interesting was he made a sarcastic video where I think he had a cake and he had syringes in it. But the syringes were exactly the ones you would use to inject steroids. [laughter] Like he literally had the blues and the greens. You have the greens to draw out. You have the blues that go in. So he had the perfect needles for steroids and the perfect plunges. And even where he said

01:22:11

it was syrup, it looked a lot like testosterone. So there's like a few weird things there. So then an email gets leaked from uh someone who was working alongside who's spending about $10,000 a month on growth hormone, peptides, steroids, anabolic steroids, etc. So I wanted vindication from that. So I knew the whole of YouTube was going to erupt. So I pretty much run back to my apartment in Bondai Junction, watched Derek's video, and I was like, I've got to make it was 55 minutes long. I got to

01:22:39

make an 8 minutee video of this. I've got to think of some banter. I've got to do whatever. So I get in camera on, sit on my sofa, I do my own version of the news. I then know I can edit this and upload it probably within 15 minutes. So I can be one hour after Derek. That was at the time my most viewed YouTube video cuz I tapped into pop culture at the time. It doesn't matter if you follow me. Doesn't matter if you care about me. It doesn't matter about anything. If you've just seen the news and me and

01:23:03

Derek are next to each other, mine's 8 minutes and his is 55. >> I'm clicking on yours. >> I'm Yeah. So I'm going to be the condensed one. And I come out the gate firing, you know, straight from I think I had like three coffees. I was like going out. I pretty much took all of the best bits from Derek's use. It's mine. Sorry, Derek. Uh Derek went sure he's a great guy. Um he won't mind because once I invited him to do a podcast and he pretty much said like, "Where's your

01:23:26

YouTube?" And I was like, "Oh, it's it's here. It's just not very big." He was like, "Okay." And that was it. And then he cut me deep and deep down I've now nearly got half a million subs, but we'll keep growing. Thanks, Derek. So, you can have the Liver King video. Thanks for that. So that would be a bucket that I would say is like gen pop. So you've got to have something reactionary or something that people care about. So one of my biggest ones

01:23:50

would have been uh Logan Paul's Prime. I actually did three videos on electrolytes that bombed. So I was like, "Fuck it. I'm taking the education bucket. I'm taking that topic. I'm bringing it over to pop culture and I'm using Prime as a victim for it." It was actually a video to explain what electrolytes are and why Prime wasn't such a good choice. Then one day I was in bed falling asleep to a podcast and then this podcast is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I was like you [ __ ]

01:24:14

are getting it tomorrow. Sorry if you have to beat that. You [ __ ] are getting it tomorrow. So I bought some Athletic Greens, did an Athletic Greens video, did hundreds of thousands of views. So actually quite a lot of my main videos on YouTube are what I would call like pop culture where fat shaming Pierers Morgan on TV. I did Good Morning Britain. They have those, but then I will intertwine those with other videos that get less views, but they might be higher converting videos where I win them over

01:24:38

with Pierce Morgan or I win them over with Liver King. I win them over with Prime, but then when I'm doing another video on this topic that's a little bit more, you know, orientated around my own products and services, people might be more inclined to buy. So, people need to have different content buckets. So, fitness could be uh muscle growth, fat loss, BS, pop culture. Um, Matt Armstrong's interesting because his buckets are main channel, second channel, which sounds like a weird distinction, but main channel, story

01:25:09

arcs, music, um, bigger setups, bigger payoffs. A lot of the Channel 2 stuff is just filmed on iPhone. So, even though he's got several million subscribers, although every video is getting over a few million views, some people just prefer an iPhone and just for it to be a bit more raw and over the shoulder and a bit more whatever. Another thing he's done very well on that, just to get on a tangent, his videos are all an hour long in the retention edited on his second channel. He bolts all of them together for a full

01:25:35

build. So, some of his videos are seven to eight hours long. He puts them on his second channel and they get more views because the average view duration is so extreme that YouTube will score it better than the original. Wow. >> So, one of his builds is seven hours long. I think it's an Aston Martin. It's got 19 million views and he could put ad reads what every eight minutes. >> Wow. >> So, that's insane. >> So, you're you're saying that even though there are kind of common themes

01:26:01

that would be a good recipe of what a good video shouldn't shouldn't be, there are outliers where where certain fan bases want things delivered different ways. >> Yeah. Uh I know some uh YouTube educators who film intentionally on a worse camera so that the person watching doesn't feel too disconnected from them as a mentor. So I >> they film on a worse camera. >> Yeah. And he exports it in 1080p so that the kid who's watching because I don't think his program is that expensive. The

01:26:30

16 17 year old that's watching is like oh this bro is running a business from a webcam. >> Interesting. So then if he goes to a full production, the kids going to go, "This guy's way too advanced for me." >> Yeah. So I think >> that relatability. >> So friends might send each other videos on iPhone. So then suddenly when they're watching YouTube on an iPhone, it doesn't feel doesn't feel like a cinematic production. So then then it also makes the Channel One videos seem

01:26:53

more cinematic, more dramatic music, more setups. So we had to go to the South of France, you know, like Clarkson back in the day where the second one's like, "Welcome back to the second channel." and you'll watch three minutes of one of the lads struggle to get a wheel nut off. So, there's all of these kind of different cadences and paces where people have it. And I would just say to people, they're different buckets. So, even having a vlog could be one of your buckets. Uh Adam Sullivan,

01:27:18

his YouTube videos at the moment are very much personal brand. He actually puts his personal brand stuff on YouTube. Everything else is is placed in short form content. So, the way he's segmenting it, uh, I said to him the other day, bro, there's he's got the ability to bring some of his fitness crowd over if he would just package the content, right? So, I'm I'll probably do the idea before him. I need to go to Newcastle to get it, but I want to go get 100 kilogram dumbbell, bring it to

01:27:45

Bondi Beach, and say, I'll give a thousand dollars to everyone that can pick it up, and then sponsor that video with a TRT business I've invested into. Then I can ban people and be like, "Oh, you need to get your bloods checked." Talking of getting your bloods checked. Head to checkyoubloods.com. You know, like so, uh, then if he was to put something like that, that could potentially get millions of views. I know that because two other YouTubers have already done the video and it's got

01:28:07

millions of views. >> Yeah. >> There's an outlier video, which we could call a bucket now. Fighting strangers to prove jiu-jitsu works. Both or three videos have all done over three million views. [clears throat] >> It's such an irresistible title. >> Immediately click on There's one dude did it on Bondai Beach. >> Yeah. >> And then I could maybe ship a pallet of Newtonic to Bondi when it's there and be like, "I'm here on Bondai Beach to fight

01:28:30

strangers to prove jiu-jitsu works." We put up a big sign and be like, "If you tap me out on the beach, you not only get a year supply of New Tonic, I'll give you $1,000." So that bump, boom, there's your introduction. >> Real quick, I'm going to try the orange. I tried Dude, I tried the blue. >> It immediately reminded me of like one of my favorite candies when I was a kid. >> I'm keen to see how you go with the orange. >> Yeah. So, what's uh what's the

01:28:51

difference in flavor between these two? >> Blue raspberry. >> Yeah. >> Orange. >> Okay. >> So, we started off with our what they call true to fruit. >> True to fruit. >> So, we started off with tropical citrus and orange. >> Okay. They're kind of like the popular ones that people want. >> But this is this is where we realize how idiotic we are. I'll let you have the first sip, then I'll explain to you one of our biggest fumbles. >> Oh, that's way more fruity,

01:29:17

>> but like less sweet. You like it? >> I prefer this one than >> Told you it's polarizing. >> I do like this one. Like I'm a huge fan, but if I had like an everyday, it' be more like this. >> Well, I'll send you some citrus. I I'll get you sent some. And then we got strawberry lemonade. But so we uh we've done about four or five million cans. >> This is really good. By the way, >> most biggest uh UK USA at the moment. And um we started hiring and we took on

01:29:43

this one hire, a weapon in the UK called James Cox. And he drops a bomb on us a year and a half in. He goes, "Oh, you do know the biggest selling drinks are unflavored." What? He goes, "Yeah, you know, Coke is unflavored. Uh, you know, Monster isn't flavored. White Monster doesn't have flavor. It's just White Monster. It's ultra. These Red Bull is unflavored. >> Right. So, they're not putting >> there's a flavor. >> There's a flavor, but they're not

01:30:09

putting things in to change the flavor. >> Because if you say it's tropical, I don't like tropical." If you call it ultra, they can't go with I don't like ultra. Oh, I never thought of that. >> 60% or more of all drink sales are unflavored. We've got five [ __ ] flavors. I sit back and go, "Why did no one tell us this? [laughter] Why did Why?" And this guy's like, "Yeah, I thought you knew." Like, "No, we didn't know." >> He's like, "It's common knowledge, man."

01:30:30

>> So, we need to create a New Tonic original. >> Yeah. >> I'm like, "How do we how do we do this?" You know, I was saying this idiots all the way up. I'm one of them. Like, I could not believe it. >> How many years in were you when you had this revelation? >> A year and a half. >> Yeah. 75% so far. >> But what we going to do now? Bring out an original. People, what flavor is it? You know, we should have just brought out new tonic. We could have just done

01:30:51

one flavor. Could have done great. And then we could have done another one. We could >> have engineered it, man. >> Like the I know Mons have like a peach, but then they have a Lando Norris flavor. Lando Norris. >> Yeah. >> What's going on there? And even if uh I I say to people they drink a Coke Zero, I go, "What flavor is that? What do you mean? Go drink it again. What flavor is it?" >> It is the flavor. >> It exactly. So >> now it's a flavor of a lolly, you know.

01:31:15

So >> Oh, you know what you saying before about uh call to actions on posts. Sometimes polarizing is a fantastic way to do it. So let's say I'm talking about the evidence uh surrounding aspartame that's in sweetened beverages. I'll just do a little side note, little looks camera. By the way, if you think Pepsi Max tastes better than Coke Zero, you should have a CT scan. Back to the video. You rile up all the Pepsi Maxes, but at the same time, the Coke Zero dieards come for you.

01:31:38

>> Yeah. >> And I'll put a chat bot on that any comment gets a DM. Okay. So, let's try and like live create buckets here, if you will. I'll throw a few at you that I think exist and then you can challenge them and change them. So, there's maybe like high stakes like there's something at risk might be one of the thematics. Another one might be like um there's a conflict like there's two odds or or I'm challenging you or I'm challenging the audience. There might be two of the

01:32:03

mechanics of maybe more entertainment based content. What might more of those mechanisms be? So one of which uh which is a visual hook is a react. >> A reaction like watching you observe something. >> Yes. However, in 2021 worked really well. Now I don't want to watch someone watch someone. So I say to people now if you want to react have a hook statement something counterintuitive or or just say something like this is messed up. Then preview the real that you're talking about full screen. Let me see it

01:32:33

because I don't want to watch you and see 25% like is that the real I'm supposed to be watching that you react to? Then don't let them talk too long. Then give me you again. So show them a preview where someone goes, "If you eat tomatoes, you will die young. Get back to it." But this isn't true, is it? Let's listen to what they say. Back in blah blah blah. And then you can jump between something you're reacting to and bring the facts to the person. Explain why it's not true. Come with evidence.

01:32:56

Come with studies. So you've got like reacts. Those ones do very well because it's conflict like you say. So people have those conflicts. Then we've got people that can come out stating a problem or that something isn't true. Then another type of content I love is an analogy. >> So maybe the other ones like myths or myth busting uh uh reactions and then um >> like so the props and analogies work really well because people love to have a visual example. The reason that most

01:33:25

good communicators will jump straight to an example of something. So something's great if you're there in front of say seven props and you say something like you are wrong with how you approach fat loss and using these I'm going to explain it now straight away we have curiosity that's been driven >> I want to see how you link them together. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> So those are pretty good because even though it's a hook and it's a bit of a setup you're building a lot of curiosity

01:33:49

but if you bore them at any point they're gone. There's uh another thing some people do at the moment where you could call it like a flow state action where someone says something to you which could be a statement, a question uh counterintuitive or whatever, but they will do a task that is a bit ordinary but not ordinary. For instance, they might chop fruit as they're saying it. >> Oh, I've seen Alex like cooking. Yeah. >> While he's teaching or >> Yeah. People are like trying to figure

01:34:14

out what's going on. Like if if someone's just sat there like staring down the camera with perfect lighting, you have been lied to about mortgage rates. people at arms being sold to. If someone's there like chopping a pineapple going everything you know about mortgage rates is actually wrong chop scene change as then getting the pineapple out people are like oh what's what's going on here curious you know if anything's happening a little bit unordinary around you you can't help but

01:34:35

look >> seen Alex sorry Leila Horozi is doing a lot of this like she's doing her makeup while talking candidly Cody Sanchez has been making a lot of like skits and things like that so you're saying that maybe people need to get a little bit more dynamic with their content now >> the only place it doesn't work is in the It's lazy. I've tried it before. People love their car cuz it's the safest space they have. You get in your car, you lock the doors, you've got your own office.

01:35:02

You've spent hours in there on your own. You know the seats, you know everything around. You can see a 360 view. No one can see you. No one can hear you. If you screamed, barely anyone would hear it. It's one of the only places you can express yourself. Also, you probably have better conversations with people on a drive than you would set up to see each other. So that's where some of us use these uh kind of automotive pathways. Uh Daniel Carnean in the book thinking fast and slow spoke about how

01:35:25

you've got like a system one system two and uh I can't remember who said it but there's a famous quote that no good idea was ever thought of not walking. Sometimes we need to be doing something getting good ideas driving or even better yet most my ideas come in the shower. The shower is one of the only places where I'm completely disconnected from technology and all I've got to do is just wash myself. And my MS, my fiance, she'll be like, "James, I had an idea." Because there'll be water

01:35:51

trailing through the whole house. I'll be naked like by my desk. She's like, "What are you doing?" I'm like, "I've got an idea for a video." She's like, "Fucking get a towel, dry yourself." I'm like, "I couldn't cuz looking for the towel, I might have lost the idea." There's probably the ADHD side of it. So, [laughter] there are some places that people go to to ideiate. I know a lot of us probably do it whilst driving and then you get your like dictate

01:36:12

feature on. You're like rambling away to chat to GPT. Sometimes give it like a 12minute voice note. I'll summarize that in a PDF and save it for later. >> Yeah. I find I get my ideas on my walk to and from work because I have a 20 minute walk each way up and down the hill and my she'll, you know, ring me at the end of the day and say like, "Do you want me to come pick you up? Like I'm swinging by getting the kids." And I'm always like, "No, >> I need the time.

01:36:34

>> I need my 20-minute walk." Yeah. There's that conversion between what we have in real life but then in social media content. Yeah. So by doing your makeup >> pull like it's like you're defragging your day and pulling ideas. >> Yeah. 100%. Um then that that really helps some people or they're just trying to figure out what's going on. Some people do content like cleaning up and people are seeing someone in their flow state and also they don't look awkward.

01:36:57

So I used to find as well when I went on dates if I just sat there I didn't really know what to do. I could talk but I didn't know what to do. But if we went for a walk, I know how to walk. We go get an ice cream. I know to eat an ice cream. I felt more comfortable on the move than I did sitting still. >> So, do you think the viewer has a different experience watching you do something? >> Especially if you look stiff. >> Okay. >> So, if someone's nervous on a first

01:37:18

date, you can tell. >> Yeah. >> There's no way of hiding it. But if you're pretty good at chopping fruit, you're in your your black belt at chopping pineapples. Doesn't matter what you say. They're like, "This person's comfortable." But also, it just gives that element of curiosity to what's happening. not where you know you've got to do something crazy or whatever, but it's just I'm watching someone chop fruit, they're talking about interest

01:37:37

rates, what's going on, >> okay? >> Rather than, you know, very serious down the barrel piece to camera content. And people should play around with that. They should play around with different areas in the house, different rooms. Uh, as long as the audio is good, try different things out and then AB split test them. Even little things. You'll watch some good content creators sit into shot as they explain something so it feels like they've just arrived. It's like an arrival technique where they go,

01:38:01

"You may not have known that." And for some reason, watching someone sit down, they're like, "Oh, what what just happened there?" Rather than the video starting, you're wrong about interest rates, it just makes it feel a bit more like you sat down with your friend like, "How's your weekend been?" You know, it's trying to mimic those things from everyday life and bring them into content. So, if you think about someone's uh watching something and they're seeing some kind of visual

01:38:24

stimuli, whether it be a prop or you sit down or um anything but being in their car, they chop in a pineapple. What do you think that adds to the entertainment component? Because obviously people probably think to themselves the most important part of the video is the educational exchange, but you're saying actually the experience of absorbing the video is maybe more important. I would say imagine 10 people love you minus 10 they hate you. You don't start on zero, you start on minus two and every video people are

01:38:53

waiting for an opportunity to leave. So by doing these things you are just delaying that person's opportunity to leave because they just want a bit of clarity before they go. So people aren't ever giving you the opportunity really it's like a pitch. Imagine if you were interviewing people for a job but there's a button in front of you and you press it they just disappear. People would probably get rid of candidates three minutes in. The only reason they don't is because they want to be polite.

01:39:17

You know, like the fact be see you later next time. Be people in real life people are ruthless. They're just, you know, probably because they're sat around other colleagues. They're like, "Oh, we can't just send her out. It' be rude." But if you watch people on social media, if you watch yourself, I challenge anyone that's on social media when you're in bed at night, watch how ruthless you are at who you give time to and why. What what what if you could see yourself and realize

01:39:43

everyone's exactly the same. We are just waiting for one person to do that little bit extra effort to give us that one thing to be like that's interesting and you're almost waiting for that finger. It's like a finger on the trigger. Oh, and then they disarm. YouTube's a bit easier because YouTube they've got the remote in their hand. Click click click watch it and the first 10 seconds they're judging you. On short form, I think it's more two seconds, but on on YouTube, you're like, "Oh, it's a good

01:40:07

introduction." And then the remote comes down. Your thing on YouTube is almost to get them to stop pointing the remote to the TV. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> And if they're on mobile, it's to get them to put the phone down. If in u I used to date a Norwegian and she used to say to me, the direct translation was, "We go to the countryside to let our shoulders down." She would go, "We just let our shoulders down. We go to relax." But I see that in content now. I'm like,

01:40:29

what could we do to get some the second they put their phone down, they made a decision, they're engaging, they're watching this now, shoulders go down. I'm watching this now. Unless this now gets boring or stops delivering on what I want from it, I'm going to watch it. I'm going to absorb it. That's where I think YouTube is going to be better than short form for a lot of things, but short form still has so many benefits because we spoke about the importance of the feedback you get from eating [ __ ] If

01:40:55

you do YouTube, you get so many less pieces of feedback and you've got to put so much into the machine. So, let's imagine YouTube is like playing blackjack, minimums of $50 at the table, whereas short form is like playing $1 on a slot. You can start to learn the machine so much better when there's only $1 being lost at a time and you've got so many more plays. Whereas YouTubes where you got the high rollers where the wins very m much bigger if you win but the losses are devastating and sometimes you're

01:41:25

just four bad hands away from giving up. >> Now if someone were to commit to posting let's say 100 videos and they were like okay happy to be a white belt going to earn my little blue belt I'm going to go on that journey and repetitiously post content with those little dollar slots every single day for 100 days. What will it actually teach someone about themselves as they go on this journey? >> There's a there's a lot, again, I hate to do this, draw back to fitness. We

01:41:53

give people arbitrary things in fitness. So, for instance, we go 10,000 steps a day. And people go, "Why?" You're like, "Well, I actually just need to give you something every day." Because if you do this three days a week, you're not even doing it [ __ ] part-time. If you come to the gym three days a week, you're not even training every other day. You're training less than half the week. It's part-time. If I get you to train five days a week, you'd be [ __ ] So we need

01:42:13

to give someone something to do every day. Same with meditation. If I go meditate four days a week, you're never doing it. Let's say you need to meditate every day. You probably stick to it. So the content, the 100 days, 100 pieces of content is actually need to change your identity from a business owner or a personal trainer or an accountant to also being a content creator. And that identity shift comes from you doing that every single day. So you then carve out parts of your routine, your habits, also

01:42:38

that ideation process. It's 9:00 p.m. at night, you're going to bed at 9:30. you've got half an hour to think of an idea for tomorrow. Get to work, stop scrolling, do that. It's almost as much an identity change. The person doing 10,000 steps a day is now an active person. They've got no choice. And it's through being an active person that they benefit the equation. And also, they say, "What? The more you practice, the luckier you get." I'd say the same with

01:42:59

content. In that 100 days, you're going to have one video you're convinced is going to do well and it's going to [ __ ] bomb. Then you're going to have one video that you think is a complete pile of [ __ ] and you don't want to post it. and you go, "Fuck, I just need to post it. Otherwise, I've got nothing else to post today." It does better than all your other videos. It's only through doing that you realize it's almost like a Dunning Krueger effect. Everything you

01:43:16

think you know about content is going to get stripped away from you over the next 100 days. And you're going to finish 100 days actually knowing less than you did when you began. And you're going to go, "Well, [ __ ] To find out the answer to this, I'm actually probably have to do a thousand posts." Then by the time you're 850 posts, people are like, "Oh, bro, that's looking great. Oh, I love that video." And you're like, "Shut up. We've got to get to a thousand." And when you

01:43:34

get to a thousand, you couldn't imagine a life without posting every day. Like even for me now, if I've not done today, chances of me putting out any content pretty small. I'll just put something on LinkedIn just to scratch that little itch in my head and I'll just put something out there to piss people off. Be like, um, I'll say say something like, "If something's too expensive, just earn double and it's half price." And then people, you know, just put something that I know is going to ri

01:44:00

people up. Or to quote Alex Hoszy, just buy something for eight million that's worth 10 and sell it for 10. Cheers, mate. >> Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't figure that out myself. >> But it's just something. It's even if it's just a story post, I'll put something on as a lead capture. I'll put a quiz out somewhere. I'll put even a calorie calculator that's [ __ ] six years old. There'll be some attempt every day. What I I I can't stand someone having a day off. I can stand a

01:44:24

subpar post. But if someone was like, "Oh, I didn't hit my 10,000 steps today. What did you do?" 7,000. Fine. If you did 1,000, I'd be like, "Bro, you weren't even close. You weren't even [ __ ] close." And someone got screenshot a [ __ ] tweet. Will it do well? Will it get you clients? Probably not. But will it pay into your identity change of putting out more content? Absolutely. >> Now, if you think about the person who's going to start making content, how

01:44:45

important is it for someone, let's say, who's an accountant or, you know, whatever career now decides to make content. How important is it them for them to observe other content creators? >> 100%. So, let's say an accountant. I could straight away say uh Josh Thomas in the UK, an account called accountant she, which I thought was great. It's a woman. And the way she's put she at the end of accountant to be accountancy smart. But Josh Thomas is wearing a three-piece suit and he's talking like,

01:45:13

"Can you write off a Ferrari through the business? Let's look at the numbers." And great hook, right? He even did a video on my GT3 and was like, "Jame Smith, is he writing this off through the business? Let's get into it." I'm not even in the same country as him, but he's doing it anyway. Whereas accountant, she she's very much more formal. Phone sitting down at the desk. Okay, HMRC, you're bringing in some new rules. Let's look into it. Great hook.

01:45:34

And then she just explains to her camera. She gets away with looking down to the camera. And where with a dude, I wouldn't recommend he does that. He needs something at eyesight. He needs to present, do whatever. But I feel for her, she's probably got an audience of women, go girl power, whatever. Love this boss [ __ ] teaching me about accountancy. Love that. Whereas he needs to almost, he's quite young. from Josh Thomas accounting where he's in his 20s wearing a threepiece. He's actually

01:45:57

trying to fit in with the 30 and 40 year olds. His perfect audience will have black MX cards. So, I can see what he's doing. So, you look at those two and you go, okay, I'm going to get a videographer for the day. I'm going to put on something nice. I'm going to try Josh Thomas, but then also this next week I'm going to do five posts like accountant sheet. I'm going to see which one does best. Then maybe both videos, one video from each does well, but only the ones you talk about corp tax. Okay,

01:46:20

what are the five biggest misconceptions about corp tax? They're going to be five. And then what are five things that everyone knows about corp tax, but I'm going to talk about it anyway. Then often you can, this is another thing that people have where an accountant will say something to me be like, "Oh yeah, the revenue came from them." I go, "Sorry, who's that?" "Oh, HMRC." I'm like, "I've never heard them called the revenue before." Really? I'm

01:46:43

like, "You have because you're a [ __ ] accountant." I'm not. I didn't even know what tax was till about six years ago. So then they have to almost dumb down their content a bit because they will say things like um yeah you know uh corp tax that's an extra 25%. And I'm like well do people understand what corp tax is and of course they do. I'm like no no no pyramid attribution your client knows other people don't. So they'll go through and say did you know businesses

01:47:09

pay tax before all profits blah blah blah. So then you can even say that's why some businesses spend loads of money before the end of tax end because they have to give money to the government. they might as well invest it and then you'll be like, "Well, is that a good strategy?" Well, then we need to look into two more things. If the company's making less profit, you have less money. Blah blah blah blah blah. People go, "Fuck, we never knew that." The accountants are watching it going,

01:47:29

"Everyone knows that, but they watch it anyway because they want to make sure she doesn't [ __ ] up." So, there's, you know, that's what they do. It's like, let's say, um, I was doing a video on email marketing. Even being a wiz marketing and go, "Let's see what this [ __ ] got to say. Let's see if we align." But then the people that don't know anything about email marketing, listening because they're learning about email marketing, the algorithm goes,

01:47:46

well, expert loved it and novice loved it. Let's show it to more people. So looking at other people, seeing what worked well, what didn't. Josh Thomas, who's probably like 100,000 followers now. I was doing a onetoone with a client. I scrolled for five minutes through all of his old videos. Go back. There's webcam stuff. I went, this is just a [ __ ] that didn't give up. He went from shirt, no, he went from polo shirt to shirt to suit to three-piece. and his content went from

01:48:11

webcam to iPhone to iPhone to professional mic to DSLR. So, you can watch the journeys and I'm like, "This bro isn't better than you. He's just further ahead. That's all it is. He's just done way more reps than you." You go to Kayla at Cena's the fitness sweat app. She's got like 11,000 Instagram posts. So, people like, "Oh, she got a big following." I'm like, "1,000 Instagram posts." I've done four and a half thousand. Here you go. Yeah. Let's

01:48:39

break that down for a second. If I did a post every day, that's 365. If I did a post every day for 10 years, that's 3,600. So, I've done more than one post a day for 10 years. And people are, oh, you look at it like that and, oh [ __ ] it's a rep's game. Most people doing very well have done over a thousand posts, which is a post a day for three years. And that's enough to get out of white belt territory. You're halfway into your blue belt then. Now, it sounds like there is a concept

01:49:12

around detachment here as well, not attaching yourself too hard to the outcome too early. What role does detachment play in being a good content creator? >> Again, I'm going to use jiu-jitsu. I do apologize. >> That's okay, man. It's a great reference. >> So, like someone's a white belt, they go, I suck. What can I work on? I go, go four times a week. And they're like, yeah, but what about my subs? I'm like, go four times a week. What about my passing? I'm like, go four times a week.

01:49:37

Because there are so many times when I was going to jiu-jitsu where I was like, I really can't be [ __ ] today. I really can't be [ __ ] And I was like, I'm just going to go. Then I'd go and we'd start the class and I'd go, I never knew that technique. That's what the [ __ ] purple belts have been tapping me with. Now I know it. So I come home and go, thank [ __ ] I went today. And it wasn't the technique I was grateful for. It was that I went was that I turned up. So

01:49:56

there are so many people that set talking to a girl and getting her number and going on a date and falling in love. I'm like, bro, if you can just give a girl your number, you've won. You've done what most men were not comfortable enough to do today. You put a piece of content out today. The second you press post on Instagram and it fully posts, you've done so much more than most people willing to do today. You should take a pat on the back. The time you film your first podcast, you write your

01:50:20

first email marketing email. The second you hit send, you've won so much for me. For instance, tonight I'll probably get home, write an email marketing email. When I hit send, I close the laptop and it is what it is. Hopefully, we get some sales. Maybe we don't. Whatever. I'm just proud of the fact that after doing probably a three-hour podcast and a whole day with my business partner who's sent me on the spectrum that I still had the energy to put out an email, market an email. For me, the success is in the

01:50:45

attempt way more than the outcome. And if you there there's a saying, the man who loves to walk walks further than the man that loves a destination. Alex said that, but he stole it from another guy who I also stole it from, and I put it in a book before him. Right? So, [laughter] I stole it first. Okay. Uh, so there's there's >> was that the the Churchillian drift? Have you heard of that? No. >> I think [laughter] there's a concept that uh most people uh quote quotes back

01:51:13

to Churchill even though they're not his quotes, >> cuz it's like Yeah. Because it's like um people don't know who to quote, so they just throw Churchill in there. >> Fantastic. >> Yeah. Yeah. When when you think about the the repetitious nature of content creation and and the lessons that come with it, what do you think is the the upside of of the winning of the putting it out there? Right? Like it's it's better to be a man who's obsessed with walking than the destination like what

01:51:39

what energy comes from the consistency. >> I like to tell people the content is like a digital asset and you can work on that asset for an hour, 10 hours. You can maybe create that asset over a month if you want to. Depends on how much you want to. You have a place you could just float it and potentially it can get accessed by [ __ ] millions of people when you wake up. Some would do bad, some would do good, whatever. Before the internet, you had like publishing, you had like press, you had billboards,

01:52:05

signage, like never have you had such an opportunity that you can just press plus button on your phone, chat for a minute, and you can potentially get a million people to see it. People should be so excited about this. They should be so excited. Now, if that asset goes off and doesn't do that well, you get unlimited attempts for free. This this is wild. Can you imagine going back like 50 years and someone being like, "Yeah, anything you give us, we'll just put in the paper. How much is it? I'll just do it for

01:52:32

free." What paper goes in all of them. [laughter] Does it have to be good? Nah. But if it is good, you get loads of sales and like people and oh many users. Oh, yeah. Billions. Cool. any language. They've now got it dubbed so it will go to Spanish and Chinese people and they'll be able to see it in their own language with AI sound like the [laughter] the oh what's the upside? Oh, you could potentially hire loads of people, retire your family and make millions and the compounding interest of

01:53:02

it. People get really excited about ETFs and stocks and shares and saving. They're like, "Oh, basically if you if you because think about investing, right? You eat [ __ ] for 10 years, right? You put in a dollar at the end of the year you got like $1.1." Then they're like, "Oh, you put in 100k. By the end of the year, you've got like 110k." But in in 30, 40 years time you've got loads of money. Hey mate, if you pay into the stock market of posting content, in a

01:53:27

year you got 10 clients. In 3 years, you're [ __ ] and you need to hire people in 10 years. You have an empire. So, I just don't obviously there there's going to be survivorship bias here where it worked for me, so therefore I preach it. And I'll tell you something that's quite interesting. I felt like a bit of a fraud for the first nine months of running a mentorship. I would say I had maybe one person who did well. I'm talking out of like 800 to a,000 people. Now when it got to that point, I had a dip

01:54:01

in confidence where I was genuinely and I would I don't have to tell people this, but I will. I was like, am I really that good at what I do? I got to a point where I was like survivorship bias. I've created a system that worked for me and it's not working for anyone else. And after nine months, people's results started popping up. A year and a half in, my results are great to the point that my posture win section on my Discord, I can't even believe that I've helped them. I look at it, I'm like,

01:54:23

that's great. I'm that's better than me. This mother, this golf instructor just learned more than me today. The little bastard. But I now come to realize that the approach that I teach people is a slow burning approach. It actually takes about 9 months for these things to kick off. But then you think 9 months is a long time. If we look back at the ETFs and the investments, those compound over decades. They're like, "Oh, yeah. The stock market always bounces back as long as you're willing to not touch it for 20

01:54:46

years. 20 years. 20 years. Give me 20 weeks, brother, and we'll get you 10 clients." So, I just wish people could be more excited about the prospect of it. And the internet's a weird place. Some people are going to chat [ __ ] about you, leave comments, and be whatever. Uh Ed Lawrence, the YouTuber I had before. I did some oneto ones with him and I'll never forget. He was more like my therapist, right? I'd come on with him. I'll be like got nothing. No ideas, mate. He goes, "Well," goes through my

01:55:16

videos, goes, "This one did well. Just do that one better." What? He's like I was like, "Why?" He's like, "Well, it's done the best out of all your videos. Why wouldn't you do it again?" [ __ ] hell. Cheers, mate. That beauty of the call. But I'll never forget one call. I said to him, "Mate, this one video I'm getting so much hate on." He goes, "Good." What do you mean good? He goes, "That's great." I go, "What do you

01:55:36

mean?" He goes, "It's gone to a cold audience." He goes, "That's a good sign." He goes, "If you're not getting bad comments, YouTube hasn't shown it to new people." >> That's interesting. So, you're saying that the more hate you get, the more cold the audience is >> within reason. >> Yes. >> But the video was performing better than all the other videos. I was looking at the hate. He was looking at the new algorithm we gone to. In essence,

01:55:57

YouTube had pushed it to a lookalike audience where of course they're going to be less favorable of anything you say or do. Again, remember we always start at minus two. So, I got that from polo. By the way, when you play polo, the highest handicap you can get in the world is 10. When you start, you're minus two. >> Did you know that? >> I didn't know that. >> So, for aside polo, they swap ends after each goal. Bit like cricket and overs with the weather conditions.

01:56:21

>> Uh you're playing chuckers, which are seven minute. I used to work in polo. Bit fun for you. Um, and it's a right-handed sport, you can't play left-handed >> really >> because of the rules. >> Yeah. >> So, um, yeah, there's your little, uh, you start at minus two, then if you have a 10 goal tournament, you get to determine what makes up 10 goals. So, you could have a five goal, a five goal, a zero goal, zero goal. But the other team might have a five goal, a five

01:56:43

goal, a two goal, and a minus two goal. Uh, then if you're over or under by one point, you start, say you're a ninegoal team playing a 10 goal team, you start with a half point advantage. So by the time you're four goal, you could play professionally. There's not many 10 goalers in the world. I've seen a ninegoal player once, Argentinian, and galloping. He hit a ball on a volley. This ball must have traveled 80 meters towards him and he wicked it with a little mallet on a volley. These 10

01:57:10

goals are millionaires. >> They are like the Formula 1 drivers of polo. >> Yeah. >> So um yeah, my sister worked in polo. So I used to go along when I was a kid or what did I get? um $12 an hour. I used to stand behind the goal and wave a flag when they scored. >> That was my first job. >> Pretty good gig. >> I think I was like 12, 13 years old. I just stand in a field waving a flag if a ball went through two bits of wood. >> That was it. [laughter] >> So, uh yeah,

01:57:36

>> it's a good gig, man. >> Learned a bit about polo. >> My first job was a trolley boy collecting trolley. >> Okay, that's there's an interesting psychological phenomena with trolley where they go it's one of the tests of temperament again to whether or not you return it because there's no penalty to not put your trolley back. There's like I'm pretty sure like uh philosophers, not philosophers, but um psychologists or whatever, they sit there and go, "You

01:57:58

can tell a lot about a man by what he does with a trolley. No one is watching him. He gets no reward for putting it back. He gets no penalty for leaving it out. What does the man do?" And cuz you know, making your bed is [ __ ] but you get to get into a made bed in the evening. Yeah. >> But the trolley debuckle, I'm pretty sure it's called like the trolley conundrum or the trolley the trolley problem. The trolley problem. Have you seen there's a channel on YouTube called Carts?

01:58:22

>> This guy travels around the country and he tries to find people in the midst of not putting their trolley back and he films himself confronting them. >> Oh wow. >> Yeah, it's fantastic. You would love it. >> There's or this race filming people. There's a guy who I'm working with at the moment who's a dating coach and he cold approaches girls in Sydney wearing metal glasses. And so he he's got a wife. I'm pretty sure he's like engaged, whatever. But he shows people how you do

01:58:46

it. But then he gets his clients to wear meta glasses and they're on a video call. So as he's looking around, he sees the girls. He's like, "Go up." And he's talking to them in his ear. So he's like, "Go in the red dress. Go over introduce yourself." >> That's diabolical, dude. >> He dates them. He he coaches them in real life talking and prospecting with girls. And I was like, there's actually such a need for this where there I think there are so many women out there that

01:59:09

genuinely just want to be spoken to. They they don't want to they don't want the father of their children to be someone they swipe. They want something chivalous. They want someone meaningful, someone to go, "Your father came up to me in embankment and told me I look beautiful and now we've got four children together." So when this guy started working me, I was like, "Bro, I am in love with what you do. >> How would you get away with filming people and putting it on [laughter]

01:59:31

YouTube, brother? >> That's what I want to know." >> Yeah. I was like, "It's the legality of this. Apparently he's got some lawyers to look at it." But uh yeah, meta glasses, just be careful what you're saying out there. If you think about [clears throat] I I get approached by a lot of people, you know, I've done a keynote or or what have you and people come up to me and they say, "Hey, loved your keynote, but I can't make content because what I do is boring or what have

01:59:52

you." um when you see these cases of people that are kind of like stuck maybe in industries they don't think they can be interesting in or they don't think that they can have entertainment in like people in finance what have you. What what's been the most obscure example you've seen work from someone who doesn't feel like their industry could be turned into content? >> I've thought of someone I'm apologize to him for not knowing his name. There's a guy in the UK and he speaks like a bit

02:00:18

of a road man. So have you seen Top Boy? >> No. They're like, "Listen, brav, get me, get an apeia, calm, say less, bless cars." They talk like that. People in London, they have like their own language. So, there's a guy who speaks like a bit of a road man, but he teaches like chemistry. So, he's like, "Yeah, bro. We got some magnesium here in it. We're going to spark that up." And like he's actually teaching like highlevel chemistry and chemical reactions and

02:00:40

scientific lessons, but he's like a bit of a road man doing it. So, again, you've got that kind of hook where you're like, is this guy from the ends? It's like your equivalent like an essay, right? Imagine you got an SA is like SHA cuz you know Westtown, Bankstown for life cuz we got some uh mercury here. We're going to mix it in with some scorbic acid and we're going to see like like it would be that. But this guy does it and he's getting like brand deals and stuff because people relate to him.

02:01:05

They're like most scientists so scholarly and like oh yes so if you get the potassium chloride and mix it in here but this guy is just like a real guy. So one of his uh when I see his Tik Toks come up I'm like that's great. Again, like you say, Terry the Tyler, there's a guy out there who's got millions of followers uh tiling. Tell you who one of my favorite is would be uh the site inspector on TikTok. Non-compliant. You seen this guy? >> Yeah, I've seen mate. >> The guy has ruined my confidence in

02:01:32

building like want to go to a new build, don't want to touch it. Not unless I know the builders firsthand. But the way that he's carved an online brand out of building inspections. Imagine me coming up here a few years ago be like, "Mate, I've got this guy. He inspects buildings. He's going to wear a GoPro on his chest. Want to invest? But mate, not sure if this one's for me. But again, entertainment non-compliant. Non-compliant. Also, the interactions he has with people. But it's also

02:01:58

educational. You're getting to learn that that box cut rain pour off at the side of the building needs to be 33 millimeters from that intrusion point. So, you're even learning about building codes non-compliant New South Wales building regulations. That, you know, that's the wrong bolt. That's the wrong rivet. I'm not even a builder. I'm learning about Thailand. I'm learning about compliancy of New South Wales rules. So again, there's these brands that have got this like obscure content,

02:02:22

but I can't help but watch. My MS comes home. She's like, what are you watching? I was like, I'm looking at a new build in Victoria that's non-compliant. I want to see this guy get stripped of his building regulations. Like, how have I ended up here? I don't know. But he's a another personal brand that's kind of crushing it. These kind of weird but unique and brilliant. I don't think anyone would be able to copy that. Do you think that these cases are planned or do you think they happen accidentally

02:02:46

through like kind of haphazardly testing things? >> I think people just go, I could do that. I think that's just the attitude. Or better yet, some people just do it as like a little hobby. So, it's like a little So, imagine this. Some people buy Bitcoin. They've got no certainty with Bitcoin. Really? Do you have any Bitcoin? >> No. Oh, I bought one and I can't find it. >> Oh, brilliant. >> Yeah. Actually, I actually have a I don't know what one Bitcoin is worth,

02:03:12

but I have one somewhere. >> Probably about 200k. >> Jesus Christ. >> Yeah. >> So, like um uh people buy Bitcoin. They've not they don't really know where it's going to go. But I would say to people hopefully the people that invest into those. It's a slush fund where if it goes up, sweet. If it goes down, don't care. >> Yeah. I bought one in like 2013 cuz I was like just cuz. >> Perfect. So then content some people is like, "Oh, just put some content out,

02:03:33

see what happens." So for the building inspector, site inspector, he might have gone, "Oh, do you know what? I'm just going to film some of these builds. I'm going to chop it up. I'm going to put it on YouTube, see what people think. For him, it wasn't something that was essential for him. It was just something that he had done. So, for that, I loved. There was a guy on YouTube, an old guy that filmed all of his fishing trips, and he had, I think, like 17 subscribers, like 500 videos, and

02:03:55

someone on Tik Tok, found him, made a Tik Tok, and it was just a sweet old man who was just recording all of his fishing trips on his boat, was talking through people, angling advice. He was getting like three views, one views. Some of his videos had no views. So this someone on Tik Tok was like, "Let's make this guy famous." I looked at the video. It had like 400,000 likes on the video on Tik Tok. I go to his account. He's got hundreds of thousands of subscribers now. His his channel is booming. Someone

02:04:21

had seen this old boy who was just he wasn't there like trying to be an influencer. He was just loving life and sharing his fishing experiences with YouTube. And at the time, no one was watching. Now there are loads of people watching because there's almost like a a little passion in the craft of just showing people what you're doing. Same way that you know even uh my barber I say to him I want you to go more granular. You can show a before and after of a haircut. People have had that. I said, 'I want you to start

02:04:49

educating people on what haircuts you get for your level of balding, your level of head shape, your uh work parameters, whether or not you want to do this, do this. You know, actually have some fun with it. Be like, if you're going a bit thin on top, maybe try a crew cut. Uh if you're going thin on top, did you know the longer your hair is, the more it makes you look balding? Did you know that receding is completely normal? You know, there are so many elements of education you can have there. And I said, another thing I

02:05:12

want you to do as a barber is just record conversations you have with people. Because I said, if you knew that this could potentially make a clip, there could be so many more meaningful things you could ask people. People come in, you could be like, what are you most grateful for this week? And they might say something so obscure that could really warm the hearts of loads of people. You know, um, someone might go, I watch something on TikTok where I should call my parents every night and I started doing it and a year later my mom

02:05:40

had a heart attack and the night before I got to have the best phone call with her ever. Like, [ __ ] hell, mate. You know, this is the best clip ever. There are so many things where even if that barber was just making conversation with someone, there could be a clip there that could get millions of people talking to their parents more. So for me, he wasn't doing it to get famous. He wasn't doing it to get barber shop bookings. He was doing it because he already had the art and the craft there.

02:06:01

He wanted to showcase these conversations with the world. I haven't said to my barber, I go, you know, you have 10 podcasts a day or 20 podcasts a day. He goes, "What do you mean?" I was like, "Well, your client's here for like 45 minutes. You just non-stop talk to them all the time." And I go, if I asked you if I said if you look at your haircuts as many podcasts or said how many have you released? He goes, none. How many recorded? He gets thousands. And I was like, if your clients were

02:06:23

happy and complicit, it'd be great. You know, I said to him that you're not going to get compounding returns of of you're doing all the work. I said, you just need a camera to record. That's it. Then you have the opportunity where you could even put that into Opus Pro and it could clip it up for you. So, >> so how many people do you think genuinely right now are in a career, run a business that if they just had a camera on them, they could compound what they could earn? >> Yeah, I definitely think that you will

02:06:55

outmaneuver I'm not going to say this too badly, but in the onset, let's say, so that I don't put you guys out of business, you can out >> Can I stop you here? I want the unfiltered version, okay, of what you're about to say. You will care more about your brand than any agency. You are the biggest driver, biggest caretaker. You are the biggest impact that could possibly ever happen to your brand. You cannot pay other people to do that for you. You can pay other people to help you. You can pay other people as

02:07:25

a catalyst, but no one cares about what you are doing anywhere near how much you care. I agree emphatically because we oftentimes get people inquiring like we predominately focus on corporate branding maybe 20% of our portfolio is like personal brands but um when people ask me the question how do I have someone else build my personal brands uh or corporate brands uh in a in a way where I don't have to do too much I I almost turn white because I'm I I'm having a moment where I'm like that's

02:07:54

not possible like you have to be physically spiritually mentally emotionally like involved if you want to have a ating a creator account. Why is it that that significant level of investment is needed to to win at this game? >> That's the simplicity of it. No one else will cuz they're too bothered about their own stuff. And that's okay. And ultimately, sounds kind of harsh to say it. If you're not going to turn up for yourself, your business, your brand, your profession, your ambitions, your

02:08:25

dreams, all those things, no one is. And if you're okay with that, I applaud you. And in some respects, I'm jealous of you because I would say the world's probably split into two categories. People that don't really care that much. And that's not a dig because I sometimes genuinely get jealous of these people. I remember I had this super wealthy, successful client. He always went on about his mate who lived in a place called Worththing with his dog. He goes, "He's got nothing. Goes, but he's so

02:08:54

happy." And the guy who had everything was miserable. And I sometimes think to myself, if you don't care, what a blessing. And I'll wish you the best. Enjoy your life. And these people that don't care, they get to go because sometimes in the entrepreneurial space, we can sometimes end up [ __ ] a bit on the 9 to5s. And I did in the onset when I discovered the new life of being self-employed. But now I look at people. We're in North Sydney. We go outside now. We're going to see people leaving

02:09:18

work at 5:00 p.m. They don't give a [ __ ] until 9:00 a.m. tomorrow. Someone could die in the office. They go, I'll read about it at 9:00 a.m., you know. Yeah. >> Friday when they leave the office. Oh, the office burned down. Uh, we'll talk about this on Monday morning. [laughter] I those people live your lives cuz I see them on holiday and they're having a better time than me. But for the other people, people such as ourselves, the ones that have uh created a mental illness that they can't escape that

02:09:45

looks after the people around them. Those people, if you don't do it, no one else will. And no one's going to be able to do a good good enough job that you So, if you care, you need to do it. If you don't care, fair play. >> Okay. Now, for those that don't feel that they have the ability to discover what viral content that might exist for them, however, they're wanting to go and proactively create something. Um, how does someone ethically perhaps take from others and remix it for themselves?

02:10:14

>> Yeah. So, the the way I see it, I do like to guilt trip people a bit. There was a person at event I did recently. I think she was like a podiatrist. Was about feet, right? She was auntie, you don't need inserts. you can do whatever. And I was asking her about the amount of content she was putting out and she didn't really do that much or wasn't that proactive. But I didn't say you need to get viral. I go, "Think of all the [ __ ] people that need your help that aren't getting it." I was like,

02:10:36

"Think of all the [ __ ] people that could really do with your advice and you're just not [ __ ] putting it out there. You're letting them get swindled by some other people selling inserts." I was like, "Come on, [ __ ] turn up for them. If you're not going to do it for yourself, do it for them." So then people are, "Oh, you know what? I should." Or like some people go, "Ah, I want to put out menopausal content." I'm like, "Women are struggling right now.

02:10:56

They need your video and you haven't [ __ ] filmed it." I'm like, "When are you going to turn up for women?" You know, I get it, but you you can you can do all your feminism stuff, whatever, but every day you don't make this video that you told me so important. You're kind of letting down the team, don't you think? So, I do like to guilt it a little bit. But then the next thing we need to do is we need to make, let's say we've got Sandra, who knows a lot about

02:11:16

menopause, hasn't put any content out. We need to go Sandra for a second. Let's remove you. Don't care about you, your business, your brand. Let's think about those thousands of women that you want to help. If you put out a [ __ ] video, we're both going to do them a disservice. We need to do something crack at something amazing. So, let's go look at the best videos ever and let's understand why they did well. Maybe it's the title, maybe it's the thumbnail, maybe it's the concept. Be careful it's

02:11:39

not too old because a year four a video a thumbnail four years ago might have bomb done well, but it wouldn't do now. Cool. Now, we're going to look at the first thing they say in the video, and we're probably going to copy all the comments and find out what people got from that video. Now, we've got the skeletal structure of what's going to impact and benefit loads of lives. And most films have got the same, you know, like no one watched Finding Nemo, then watched Taken. I'm like, same film. You

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go, what do you mean? You're like, well, kid got lost, kidnapped, father goes and gets it. Taken and Finding Nemo are the same film. [laughter] So, you know, like no one's bothered because you made it differently, right? >> Yeah. >> Even in our generation, we've had three Batman's, >> we've had three Spider-Mans, >> so no one's like, "Oh, another Spider-Man." They just put them all in the last film. So, people aren't annoyed to see different as long as it's

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different. Or people aren't afraid to see the same as long as it's a little bit different. And the reason that people watch all the Batman's and all the Spider-Mans is because how it makes them feel. So, there could be someone out there that watched an old menopause video and changed their life forever. She'll see yours, Sandra. She'll [ __ ] love it, too. So, make it for her. Make it for all the women that never saw the first video. And I remember uh I was doing a video about metabolism.

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Obviously, I was trying to help loads of people that wanted to lose fat. And someone commented and went, "It's very apparent you watched Jeff Nippard's video before doing this." And I commented back and I went, "Do you think I'm a [ __ ] idiot? His video got 7 million views." I said, "For me to not watch it and not to take the seven best things from his video and put it in mine would be doing a disservice to all the people that need to lose weight." I go,

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"If I didn't steal Jeff's seven best concepts from that, I'd be a [ __ ] knob." And I went, "But don't say that I copied him because my video was funny and he is not." So, you know, I was like having some problem with someone in the comments and I think even the person replied going, "Fair point, you know, fair point." You know, like imagine you try to rip off a Chris Christopher Nolan film and you use none of his tactics or you tried to rip off Tarantino and use

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none of his cinematics or whatever. People like, "Oh, not very good film." Like, if you're going to rip it off, take the best parts and put your own spin on. >> I I love this because I think so many people get so caught up in their head around it has to be perfect. I have to have the ultimate plan. I got to nail it from the start. And I like how you just, hey man, take the breaks off, detach from it, you know, borrow from others, remix, play, have fun, and and try to go on this journey just understanding that

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you can eat [ __ ] for a couple years. >> There's um there's a a funny one we have in our little group where probably 60% of the businesses I work with are fitness coaches or like sports therapists, whatever. And some people are convinced they have like a broken algorithm. They're like, "Oh, I might start a new account. I' got a broken algorithm." I'm like, "We l it in. What are we going to do?" We're like, "We're doing the Coke Zero video." Because

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everyone on the planet pretty much loves Coke Zero or Pepsi Max. Almost everyone on the planet is concerned that the full fat one is better for them than the sweetened one. Almost everyone on the planet thinks sweeteners are bad. And this is what I coined the dinner table genius. People in content can create a dinner table genius. And the dinner table genius is where someone's going to say something at dinner table that isn't true. And this is the opportunity for someone to be like, "Right, so what's

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your mom's name? [laughter] What's your mom's name? >> Tracy. >> Tracy sat up at the table and Tracy goes, "Don't have too many Coke Zeros, James. It give you cancer." And I'm going to go, "Tracy, let me break this down for you." And your whole family around me are going to listen and go, "Your dad's going like, "Who's this?" But Tracy, aspartame is what you're talking about, right? The sweeter. Yeah. Oh, you've seen it was

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correlated with type two diabetes and whatnot. Correlation's not causation for a start. Okay. Ice creams are correlated with drowning because most people swim on hot days. Most people have ice creams on hot days. Ice creams don't cause drowning. Drownings don't cause ice creams. All right, so we're going to put that to the side. Aspetame, as you said before, pretty sure it's broken down into three things. Spartic acid, phenylanine, and methanol. Is that correct? Well, did you know that red

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meat, eggs, and tomato juice contain way more than what you'd get from a can of diet soda? Now, I know what you're thinking. You're probably citing the study that was done in rodents back in 2014. And you should be worried about aspartame if you're a [ __ ] rat. But are you a rat? No. Didn't think so. Tell me look at the health concerns that are done to a factor of 10. Someone in my weight could probably consume about 800 cans a day and that would be fine. And I don't you agree that having 800 cans of

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diet soda a day might be worse more concerned from my dentist than my doctor. So if you are going to have this argument, that's completely fine. But I need you to understand the science behind it. Having a few cans of this a day isn't just harmless. There are a plethora of studies that show that sweetened beverages can have a beneficial effect to sustainability in fat loss diets. And wouldn't you agree that having a little bit less fat would be good for all of those markers, including gut health, which you camper

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people seem to think is bad from your rat study. Thought so. Thank you very much for doing it. It was [ __ ] lovely. But don't [ __ ] talk to me about Coke Zero again. All right, that's a disabled genius, right? [laughter] So we >> we've all met one of those. We in that video and I'll say to someone in my group, go make your version. Now, one lad called Doc, Michael Doc. >> He didn't just make the video, he made it better. Better props, better pacing, posting notes, mixing different things

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together till it looked like Coke Zero. And he went [ __ ] viral. 60,000 followers on Instagram from one video. And I was like, [ __ ] he did it better. Now, in our group, we all like will say to each other, "Just do the Coke Zero video." Because some people have seen it, but they actually will watch, they'll see mine, but they'll watch docs and go, "Fucking hell, this one was better." You know? So, like on mine, I stuck eggs to a whiteboard using duct tape. And some people commenting

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like, "How did you get the eggs to stick?" I had to do the loop with the duct tape to get an egg to stick to the whiteboard. >> So, like um then in our group, I'm like, "Hey guys, come together. Someone's got to do a better video than Doc." So, we as a collective all are doing the same video. One guy is like, "I'm gonna have so much fun." I go, "Why?" He goes, "I'm doing it in Dutch. I've never seen it in Dutch before." I'm like, "Brilliant."

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So, we have this one dinner table genius concept video that I'm telling everyone to copy. I'm like, "Hey guys, do a better version of this." And it's all using so that people can see their algorithm isn't broken. Their content and concept just isn't good enough yet. >> I love that. So, you're you're having people live replicate something you know kind of indefinitely works no matter what. Uh, so another one that I even put out to the group the other day was um

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AG1, right? Athletic Greens. It's like $179 for one month supply of greens powder. So if you have anything to sell, like we do creatine sticks at the moment for Neutronic. I'll give you some after this. And um people go, "Oh, your creatine sticks 40 bucks for a month supply is quite a lot. It's flavored." Yeah, it is. Do you know how much AG1 is? $17 [ __ ] dollars. What's in it? So, when I did an AG1 video, Gen Pop or pop culture, whatever you want to call it, it was no BS. It was Takeown, it was

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pop culture, it was all those three things. I'd also seen other videos do really well about it. So, I bought some my thumbnail. I've got a green AG1 Tash because I saw it perform well on someone else's thumbnail, and I wanted to use the word scam. So, my video is, is Athletic Greens a scam? I then watched someone else's video who made a very good point. Adam McDonald, his name was, he said that it's a proprietary blend, so you're not allowed to know what's in it because it's their copyrighted blend,

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but the ingredients go in order of biggest to smallest. And the first ingredient is spirulina, and you need 8 g of spirulina to be an effective dose, and the whole serving is only 11 g. So, the other 70 ingredients make up three grams. So, none of the other ingredients would be an effective dose. So, when you point that out to people and they're spending $170 a month on this [ __ ] AG1, AG1 fanatics were like, "No, it's good. It's a It's a great um probiotic, probiotic, probiotic." And then I went

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to another video to find out about prebiotics and saying that vegetables are way better prebiotics than a probiotic. So, saying to people, if you'd take that $170 and spend on vegetables, you would do much better than greens powder. Now, AG1 in May this year reformulated with added studies. So, I was like, "Hold on a second, guys. I can't go after AG1 because they sponsor Chris, right? I'm no longer allowed to go after Chris's sponsors." One guy at one of his events was like,

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"You really [ __ ] annoyed us in the AG1 from your video?" I was like, "Oh, well, make a better product." In my honest personal opinion, so you got um AG1. I go into my group, I'm like, "Who's doing the take down? If your formula was so good that netted you hundreds of millions of dollars, why did you reformulate?" So, I'll put the ideas in there. I'll leave them to it. But then one lad did the video and he didn't buy it. He just put a screenshot of it up and did the

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video. I go, "You [ __ ] you did it wrong. Buy it. Raise the stakes. Have it in front of you. I want to see it. I want you to say, "Is this worth $179?" I go, "Then I know straight away in the first few seconds, you went, you bought it, you invested, you got it, you can unbox it in your intro. You can give us B-roll. Putting an image up there is lazy. You're cutting corners. I go, do it again in a few weeks." I say I need to have the emotional pain of you going $99 for that for this

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because then I can feel your pain. I can relate to you because I would have been someone that's been ripped off before. I would have that same emotive response. Putting a Google images JPEG up there just isn't it, bro. I was like, I need to to raise stakes. I had a good idea for a video the other day. I ordered a balaclava online. Have to wait three days to film it. So, like, you know, I just thought a balaclava, it was a video of me stealing an iPhone, then going back, giving the iPhone back and taking

02:20:58

the new Sonic. And I was like, for this to be funny, I need to have a balaclava and pull it over my head. So, I was like, even though the balaclava is like 15 bucks, I was like, I need to uh raise the stakes of actually getting a balaclava because then people are going to go, "Fucking hell." He went to the effort to get that. Then, I put an Adam Sullivan t-shirt on that I got from his new merch drop. So, there was like a double thing there, like I'm being a thief. I'm dressed like Adam, whatever.

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Um, it was just then some people comment going, "Ah, he supported his boy Adam whilst robbing someone. How fitting or whatever." So, there are so many elements to that where you can have fun, you can copy people, you could do whatever. Uh, some people call it skyscrapering. Sometimes you just got to come along, identify what's the biggest building, just build a bigger one. And then whilst you're there celebrating having the biggest one, someone else is in the shadows ready to build a bigger

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one. And all of you will just try and outscape skyscraper each other for so much time. And then eventually you'll have a massive skyline full of big buildings and it'll be great for everyone to see. >> I I love the dinner table expert challenge. Um, honestly, man, sincerely, like it's been a pleasure to sit here with you. Uh, I've admired your work for for years and it's hilarious. As we walked around the office, you had a lot of organic interaction interactions and you were like, "Dude, you setting me up.

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You winded me up." And there were organic reactions where someone double talked you and was like, "Hang on a second. Where do I know you from? I know your content. I follow you. Um you you've helped inspire thousands and tens of thousands of young men to take action in their lives and um women as well. And um yeah, just humbled to have sat here with you and had this conversation, man. I appreciate you being here. >> Really, really enjoyed that. [music]