Inside the Beauty Industry with Australia's Leading Hair Artist | Natalie Anne

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I was working with a really famous photographer and this photographer is like bro it's ugly The Stylist comes over to me she's like dude you're getting fired so I'm like frantically brushing brushing brushing and this photographer goes stop he said that's perfect Natalie Anne is internationally regarded as Australia's leading hair artist expert and social media educator we were in Vegas I was with my baby brother he was shooting my content she's like n n that's Daisy Perkins he's like

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I'm just going to go tell her that you need to do her I was like dude you can't do that within 2 hours I got a DM actually I'd love my head on tomorrow morning she has curated Partnerships with industry-leading Brands such as ghd bini shoes om M jador hair extensions and timely I'll probably get cancelled even saying this but Natalie an welcome to the Pod thank you so much for having me so Natalie you're I guess in many ways Australia's leading hair artist entrepreneur and

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social media educator which is quite a lot and you've worked with celebrities both Australian and international take me inside the celebrity styling industry I I'd like to call like just quote unquote celebrities for me like you know I think depending on who's listening for me uh the the new celebrity is the most influential right so I work with a lot of influences um and I have done for the last 10 to 15 years it's exciting and fun and I think when you are going on that journey and you want to work with

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the top Echelon of whatever industry um there's a lot of etiquette um a lot of skill um and there's a lot of privacy like I always say my kit needs an NDA like cuz you know you just got to keep your mouth shut and you know um and you've got to be really focused when you are working with um any any particular client on that big event you know they're Ultra focused and you need to be ultra focused and don't be offended like thicken up good skin you know yep so for you how did you start to crack into I

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guess the influential space or the celebrity space because I think a lot of aspiring hair stylists or people that are like really good at their craft are maybe asking themselves well how do I even get into those circles well I think back then was very different to where it is now I think now it's a lot easier I think think if you're relevant you're sharing your skill online if you're creating an obnoxious amount of content and people can see that you like physically see rather than a curated

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book like it used to be or having agencies or representation the times have changed I think now it's your relevancy who you're working with and that's really easy to achieve if you just keep working for free keep putting your hand up for every opportunity don't say no to anything and document that Journey and you'll be surprised who's watching So when you say like don't say no to anything in particular around I guess let's just say the celebrity space what's some of the craziest projects

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that you've worked on that um you might have said no to but you really glad you dived in uh I don't actually know the answer to that question the craziest project well let's change it slightly so what what is what are some of the craziest project that you've worked on personally actually I'll tell you a funny story reframe it slightly one of the most influential I mean she's top 50 most influential influencers in the world um I had the opportunity to work with Desi Perkins

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and it was by accident we were in Vegas she was actually going to do some research for um her new skincare line and I was with my baby brother who was shooting my content and he saw her in the corner of his in Vegas just before she about to going to the left he's like n n that's Daisy Perkins I was like no really and he's like yeah he's like I'm just going to go tell her that you need to she needs to do you need to do her hair I was like dude you can't do that I was like so

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embarrassed like you know when you like if you there was a hole you could just jump in he like run straight up to her he was like I think 20 at the time and he was just like my sister's here she's an amazing hairdresser we're here from Australia I'm here shooting her content do you need your head on and she just found it like super endearing you know and her baby brother used to shoot her content and she's just like yeah so I came over introduced myself like dude honestly within 2 hours

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I got a DM being like hey actually I'd love my hair done tomorrow morning and that's how I worked with her wow yeah Y and then that's a crazy story you what was the outcome of that like what did that lead to because you know how sometimes these weird serendipitous moments happen to us yeah I mean look I don't live and work in La so I feel like it would have been a domino effect while if I stayed there but coming back home that clout working with that person and then obviously working with other

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influencers in La during that sort of PR tour when you get back home it's like especially in Australia they want to see you succeed in the US before they give you that P on the back and it's great learnings and the networks and the opportunities and I feel like that'll continually evolve you know especially when we do head to the US it's an interesting one cuz we've noticed the same effect with ourselves wherein like in our local market we're doing a lot we're working with some big names but

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like for some reason for an Australian when you work in the US it's like the Chris Hemsworth effect it's like oh okay now you're accepted in Hollywood now you're the real deal now we'll embrace you back home it's actually crazy it's crazy and I wish that wasn't the case but I guess for people like us I'm assuming you the same it's there's never going to be a ceiling so I feel like we need to Forever like try and keep reaching for those moments you know and

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having someone else saying you can't is probably that fuel that you need to just like keep going do you think for someone who is in Australia right now and wants to kind of take the same trajectory as you they do need to broaden their scope to be more International yeah I definitely think they do I think if if we are going back to the celebrity conversation we don't really have any so I'm like pack your kit bootstrap it head to the US and start working man assist like grind every day you know find out

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who's who find out what coffee they drink make sure you rock up with it like invest in your education whether or not you're just like watching every single possible YouTube tutorial that there is every interview every backstage situation you know just so that you can see what you need cuz every you need is online you just got to spend time navigating working on it like figuring out the formula all you have to do is like there right what you do is there you've already done it so I feel like if

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someone just spent two days reverse engineering your content strategy it's actually there when you're looking at someone who's let's say crushing with content what what are some things you like to do and how do you approach reverse engineering someone else's content I love looking externally to my industry I've never looked at my industry per se um and looked at the viral content in my industry because if that's viral now I want to set Trends I don't want to ride them so I'm always

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looking at external Industries like for example I could be looking at your content I could be then looking at your hook your CTA your um your value proposition for that customer and then I'll make it relative to my business so I could be like take one of your Hooks and I'm like actually that's really cool that could work with this technique so I'm like if you want sorry if you have fine hair and you want to blah blah blah you know and it works really well for me at the moment um but then obviously not

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over editing as well because we're still in the beauty industry and they love that authenticity so we tried hardcore editing and that just didn't really fly for us yeah yeah I've seen someone um who I really admire uh in the beauty space and that's triny London and she's like super authentic doesn't really do much editing at all it's just her in her bedroom making fun of herself and just having a laugh can I just say yeah she's exactly like that in real life like I

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met her at um on her PR tour here in Australia and I have really bad soris so she was using her BFF cream on me and she was just so genuine so hardworking she made the time to like go out and just meet every single person so like seeing her her open her flagship store and like all the successes like it just makes me really happy cuz she's a good human what do you what do you think put her on that kind of trajectory having spent some time with her to be honest with you watching her more than spending

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time with her I think spending time with her I realized face to face that she's just a really good human you know and you see that online I think what made she really was entrepreneurial in this series based content from what I could see like she had like the characters in the series like her friends and she had like this amazing sense of branding like when you think triny you think yellow like you know there's so many different things and she was she came into the space at a good age I feel like she

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found you know her client like how to dress for your age how to do your makeup for your age you know and she paved the way for so many creators in that bracket so it's been really cool to watch and there's a bit of a myth around that right like uh social media a young people or young person's game definely I would I would aggressively disagree like Chris doe was in his uh I believe late 40s when he started content you know Grant cut owns like towards his the later stages of his 60s or 50s sorry and

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I think like yeah what's what's your opinion around the concept of age and social media being a Young Person's game I definitely think that narrative has completely shifted um and we can see that and I don't think that audiences live um in particularly on one platform more than the other uh I think your psyche is different when you're on one platform versus another platform but I don't think it's all only old people are on Facebook yeah you know a good point when when you started I guess looking at

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social media like how early or uh late into your career were you when you started to go you know what I need to start capturing this filming it editing it posting it scheduling it and putting it out there on the internet I was a really early adapter um on social media I started actually creating content when I was promoting nightclubs on MySpace wow uh so Myspace takes me back yeah yeah yeah so I was really early to content but then while I was managing nightclubs I that was my side Hustle but I always love what I did so I

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then started creating and curating content for Facebook um I would just do the girls that wanted to go to the club's hair and shoot content we would run like fashion shows in in the nightclubs and we would utilize that content back then we didn't know it was called content like it was just photos that I was shooting as the promoter influence it wasn't really a terminology you know it really wasn't like the term influencer wasn't really there but I really understood the power

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of influential people they were the people that I was inviting to my guest list because those girls were buying or booking tables those girls were the ones that could fill the club technically those girls are the influencers of today so I kind of just by default realized that it was the same strategy I was just putting it into my social media strategy interesting and so that started on MySpace then into Facebook yeah my face I had 5,000 followers was this like 05 06 like what pretty much and then from

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there Facebook interesting and this is very early days back when like content creators wasn't really a thing it was just like oh it's just fun hanging out social it's a thing were you a club promoter before you really got into hair like like explain that yeah so I was in like Club promoting I think I just finished my apprenticeship but as you know like when you're an apprentice I was making $230 32 a week yeah wow paid by check so you know I would go to the bank check put the check in get my cash and you

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know you can't live off that and I was cool with it cuz I was learning you know hairdresses were rock stars back then so like I was just obsessed with everything about what I did but like let's be real I had to eat and um I had to make money and I always loved music I always loved the clubs and I wasn't a big drinker so for me it was like I might as well work in the club get paid and like start building this really cool community of people that then kind of started to build my business off you know the same

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DJs and the same um singers that I would book in there I started doing their hair and they became the first lot of celebrities or influencers that I started working so you were kind of in the space around the DJs around like these micro celebrities around town like people know who they are um social lights and people out there kind of like actively you know socializing and spending time with others did you find that initially it was like word of mouth or was it because of Myspace or Facebook or a mix of BG I definitely think it was

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a mix of both but I think you always have like that one special viral moment that uh I think you know if you speak to any Creator is that pivotal sort of piece of content um I didn't know how to run a business at all uh I was on set I basically [ __ ] up really badly I was working with a really famous photographer and you know as someone pre-m something they're like you're working with the best photographer and you're working with the best dialist um and then all of a sudden you just [ __ ]

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the bed like you don't you don't realize that like you know what you're doing so I start curling this girl's hair and she's Asian and Asian hair typically tends to over curl like it can overstyle and you overcompensate cuz it's quite straight so she ends up over curling and this photographer is like bro it's ugly like you need to brush it out the stylus comes over to me she's like dude you're getting fired like you need to just sort it out so I'm like frantically brushing

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brushing brushing and this photographer goes stop I was like what he's like that's perfect shine here shine here shine here it just turned into the most beautiful wave meanwhile I've got no [ __ ] idea how the hell I got it I was so frantic like I had to then go back and try and reverse engineer this [ __ ] up because this image went viral my phone was blowing up my D well not DMS it was like my in Facebook like inbox back then you know and like my cous was like what did you put up and I was like what do you

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mean she's like you have all of these Bridal inquiries I'm like I don't even do Bridal she's like well you are now cuz like I just had all of these inquiries for this new vintage wave and little did people know like it was like the most hardcore day of my life like I thought I was going to lose my job but it was pivotal in my career meanwhile everyone's like what a genius I I this is what I need for my wedding I'm booking you 24 months in advance but then also from that headdresses wanted

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to learn that look so it was like the beginning of my education career too it was just crazy it was just one of those days that everything changed so that being a defining moment or a transformative moment like how how did you adjust yourself to kind of keep up with the demand because often times people have these moments but they don't quite know how to capitalize on it or quite know what to do with it obviously your background as a promoter like did that kick into gear like what what allowed you to really catch that wave

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and ride it out you know uh through different seasons of of hairdressing I definitely think my club background what I learned in nightclubs is that the more booked out you are the busier the line was you know the better the club was perceived right so we actually said no to a lot like I hired my cousin to basically just to the phone and say we're unavailable for a really long time and we would just be chilling and you know doing pretty much nothing but I said to her trust me if we're going to

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build this brand I need to be unavailable I need to be unaccessible I need to be the most expensive and she's like dude we like need to get paid I'm like I get it but we need to establish that slight arrogance like people want what they can't book and it worked for us you know um and that's how it sort of All Began so then take me into that that I guess strategy a little bit further if if if someone's ringing the phone off the hook and they're like hey we've seen this

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radical thing online I want to book my wedding sorry booked out yeah did word start to get around town like how how did that actually permeate into I have to have you I'll pay you double like what what did that turn into so it was pretty much like a compounded effect of Word of Mouth like you can't book her like you know she only does f fion or you know it was just that's exactly what it was to be honest with you um and then obviously slowly slowly we started to take the clients we wanted because I wanted to

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make sure that the brand that I was building I was building my dream client as well and that helped us so instead of just taking everyone which I would love to have done but I had that bigger picture in my mind I'm like this is the perfect CL for me this is what's going to sustain me it's going to keep me happy and then also it's going to allow me to create the content that I need to then create more of those customers the compounds right so if you have uh photography and the photography is

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sporadic and it's like there's a different vibe different style different um subcontext of fashion or whatever on each post it just seems a bit hodg Podge but if you're like it's refined it's precise it's constantly a themed kind of style you're saying that that allowed you to scale your price and scale your client's heal within that Niche most definitely cuz most people are scared to do that because they're so terrified that if they Niche too hard they won't

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have anyone wanting their work I totally disagree like I went as far as like one look like in the hairdressing category that's like crazy I literally did that look rinse and repeat photographed it shared it put it on the most influential person in that local market you know like the the yummy mom that everyone talks to when she's doing school pickup that was the client I wanted because she was then the word of mouth that I needed and I kept doing that one look over and over until we created the next Trend and

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the next Trend was like the ponytail and then that ponytail was the same thing I I never strayed my strategy I was like this is working we need to just keep going Until It Breaks and it worked for us and then what was your go-to maneuver when something would break like take me into take me into something that that broke and then what did you do to Pivot out of it I definitely think what broke was I necessarily think it broke but I think you exhaust it right so I'm always like if something's working for me now I've

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always got my ear to the ground social listening is so important and like being able to listen to your customer is key I was always in my DMs always in my comments always reading what was next and that helped us so if someone was like I would love to actually see you teach this I was like okay one time three times 300 times I'm like there's the opportunity so then we started to Pivot into education or pivot into product like I love that but I can't get that with that product and that's how

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products s of opened up I I really like your perspective there around like social listening and and I understand what you mean there but like really unpack that like what do you mean by social listening how does someone want do that and how do you start to make um how do you start to monetize something when you see it enough I think if I mean obviously there's so many AI tools and like Tex Stacks that you can Implement in your business depending on who's listening to basically really unpack what social

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listening could be um and definitely do it um more strategically but I think for those who are just starting out honestly read every single comment that you're been given and if you don't have a big audience read the comments of your competitors like that is everything you need to know about what someone wants like every time I'm going to launch a product now right I'm going to all of the competitors and reading every single comment that comes with their latest drop or what's coming or because the

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clients are there going oh my God I loved this but I hated the nozzle or I loved this but I hated the feeling or actually this is just [ __ ] you know I feel like that's to me truly what social listening is about and Survey your customers ask them you know ask them what they want ask them what they don't like you know be up in your stories and I know there's going to be crickets but I used to even like ask myself questions on Instagram and then set up a fake profile and answer them and then put up

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more questions so that I'd have something to talk to you would comment on your own post I had like four fake pages and it wasn't to stalk my heart husband it was just to talk to myself and I don't know if you remember this and I don't know if it was actually a thing but you know youed to have an engagement pods you know where people would be like you know they'd flood to your your post and like basically start commenting to build the algorithm up to tell you know the big bad algorithm man

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that this is worthy of you sharing right I I'm Lebanese so I have lots of family members and I us just po pop it in my WhatsApp group I'm like guys new feed like go you know like everyone would comment on my post to to help that virality you know that's genius and I it creates like a little bit of a uh engagement tornado totally cuz I understand and there's some Theory here and again like it's always predictive you can never guarantee it but like within the first you know 10 to 20

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minutes of a post going live if you get a pile of Engagement it really helps that post you know project a bit further it does and knowing Lebanese families that they're definitely happy to jump in and help and there's a lot of them there was some serious projection there I guess but I love the idea of like commenting on your own stuff with great questions and then answering it and going back and forth but with a fake profile so you don't look like a crazy person yeah you know to look nuts but

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but I like that and I think yeah for me social listening is an important one like when I used to work at World JY um one thing that uh the CEO said to me is like hey go check out the competition and I was like why would I do that and he's like just sus him out just get a Vibe and I was like okay so I went to every gym on the Sunshine Coast every I took it so seriously I went to every single gym and pretend I was going to sign up and heard all their pictures all their prize points all their offerings

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and then I would do a two or three day trial and hit up these different gyms and then just started asking the members like how do you like this place oh the bathroom stinks or this product sucks or this equipment never gets fixed on time and and I was getting so much Intel on what people did and didn't want from a gym and then started deploying it pay big money for that you know like companies spend years and years and years like researching those things um I used to do the same thing before we

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opened Our Salon my favorite thing to do is go and get a blow dry to just like understand you know obviously I became more influential so I couldn't really disguise myself anymore so anytime I'd walk in people thought I was going to poach their staff like that was really unfortunate I was like I just really want to blow dry they're like sure yeah yeah yeah so you know but it's so important yeah and then for for you I guess like like looking back on your career and your um you know you jumping

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into social media kind of early and not really looking at it like an influencer like what was your opinion on social did you get a kick out of it were you getting a dopamine hit from it like what kept you in this uh system producing more content and increasingly trying to talk to yourself and get your family on board and all the rest of it obviously the phone was ringing right so I knew the opportunity was there like I I could see it I could feel it not only that I was starting to ruffle feathers that's always a good indicator

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that you're doing something right how are you ruffling feathers so in our industry you know there was always this top tier Echelon of hairdresses I mean it's it's it's very different now but at that time they were all you know award-winning hairdresses they were session stylists so they did you know magazine editorial you know uh backstage and you basically have to die before you get that position do you know what I mean like you have to wait for someone to die like that they're very very very

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few positions and I was then asked to do panels with these people to talk about my new success in this digital landscape meanwhile they were still in print media like they were still doing magazine work and they weren't sharing their their work on social media because they thought it was like they used to call me the Blogger I've never written a blog post in my life right um and it was I had to really earn the right because in their opinion I wasn't skilled enough I was just really good at

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marketing so then I was like that's valid I haven't earned the right in the industry yet so then I would just beat on my craft constantly to then prove myself to that market there's some of my closest friends now and you know I've helped them change their strategy so now they're all digital influencers in their own right too so but take me into that like in the early stages of that um you know you're seen as a digital Creator y almost in in some ways it could be seen as looking down on someone yeah for sure

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oh you're one of those digital creators yes but I'm in magazines I have Awards yada yada yes how how did you think how did you feel about that first and foremost and then um how how do you think that that started to really change I I loved I loved that like for me it was a challenge but also I saw it as an opportunity to kind of help them you know or exchange value so like I had a a mentor of mine she really wanted help in the digital space and I really wanted to get inside her mind so we kind of

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exchanged that which was really cool um but I kind of used it as fuel I loved that people even today you know even with the brand the big Brands still think that I'm a hairdresser with a little brand you know like oh she's got some products that's cute next minute it's like International distribution and like I have every successful hairdresser in the country using the product but really they thought I was the underdog for a while I love it I just it's fuel man it's really

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is and I love being that person because you're able to listen more and make less mistakes shut up start listening and just run past them when they're not looking I I guess for many people ruffling feathers like that sounds terrifying it is nothing could be uh further from you know um what they would want to have happen where where do you think your I guess ability to be comfortable as an underdog is from and what I guess gives you a bit of um pep or Gusto to be that uh feather Ruffalo I I I come from a a family of no

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entrepreneurs I guess and they all hardworking super hardworking people and for me there was really no other option either I was going to ruffle feathers you know and like change or stay the same and shut up and just do what I was expected to do I think that's where it comes from that grit that resilience and like no other option you know like what's the alternative that's a good point and and I think it's like rather than looking at it like this this person's trying to look down on me it's an invitation to

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rise up but like with you you told me about a piece of content that you created on I think it was LinkedIn yeah that ruffled some serious feathers but like what was the alternative for you like not speaking your truth I think that's a good point right because uh a lot of people are terrified of this happening and and I posted um uh a piece of content on LinkedIn and it was me with a whiteboard in this room and I was like here's the difference between branding and marketing and I was y y y

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and it blew up and it did really well on Instagram yeah my Instagram Community ate it up like great piece of content Dane I put it on LinkedIn and linkedin's a very different format where it's a lot of business types and people are doing business transactions there a lot of people with phds that have gone you know the academic route and here I am just some rag tag dude who like thrown an agency together and figured it out and some of the terminologies I was talking about were things I figured out myself

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yeah and I'm like this is my truth I use this with my clients it's really good but uh from someone in Academia they're like this terminology is wrong you're saying it the wrong way it doesn't look like this in the textbooks and the comment section blew up and there was an argument between the creative community that support me and these academist who don't know who I am and they were saying stuff like who the hell is this Tik Tok want to be entrepreneur D and uh I was just sitting back like so happy to see

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this play out I was like this is awesome this is giant argument we had the CMO of uber in there we had like people I looked up to and admired like roasting me in the comments section and I dm'd every single one of them like I'd love to catch up for coffee I'll take you out for dinner and then some of them got back to me and they're like yeah sure okay great and and weird thing is I think most people would look at that as a defeat or or an l and I looked at that as an as a w totally a win yeah but it was only a

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win with what what you did with it does that make sense like you could have just been the viral guy that just sat on the comments and did nothing with it you used that you used the community you could now use it as a case study we're talking about it now or you could have just cried yourself to sleep right you know what I mean but what but if you didn't do that post like how else would you speak your truth do you know what I mean it just is your truth no I I think you you touched on a good point here and it's like you know

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the authenticity piece so uh for those that are I guess headdresses now like what what would you say to them to that they need to do or anyone that's on social media that is scared to be authentic what what should their approach be how should they look at it it's so hard because you know uh the social media like part of me is going to tell them to like find Trends ride the trends etc etc right like there's a formula to like you know going viral definitely I believe that but then the

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other part of me is like if you're just starting on your journey who are you who are you speaking to who do you want to serve and what value can you bring before you start Trends because they come after the fact you know really really figure out who you are and who who you want to speak to and who you want to serve who you want to serve is the most important thing ever that's what I would say to them now it's a really good point and when you're looking at who you want to serve what

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are some things that you like to help people look for when they're trying to figure out well I don't know well what are you doing you know like say for example let's take a hairdresser you know you've got hairdressers that are amazing Salon Salon sweet stylists you know like they're in the salon they're behind the chair their ultimate goal is to be booked out right so you're not going to be creating content that is for hairdressers right so you're not going to go teach people how to do hair as a

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hairdresser you could be doing DIY content so you know you could be calling out your dream custom to be like hey you know this is how I style my hair using X this is how you maintain your hair at home you know you are the expert you are the authority those clients want to learn from you and in turn they might book you you know because they resonate with your authenticity they resonate with your personality they resonate with what you're wearing you know and that's why it's really important to stay true to

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who you are and not just ride TW Trends yeah and I I think you rais a good point regarding like like you know speak to your actual audience so if you want to fill your chair speak to the client what what about those that are like I don't want to give my secrets away for free I don't want other stylists steal my tips and my tactics I don't want people to do this at home and not pay me for it how do you how do you I guess help people kind of curb their their mindset around that a really smart person once said to

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me that what we do is handmade right I didn't get it at first and then she said it again I was like oh my God it's true what we do is handmade so regardless I could teach you everything I know Dane like everything right but my Approach to those learnings and what I'm teaching you is vastly different like you can't teach the you don't have the same taste you know my hands are going to move differently you know we could create exactly the same piece of content exactly the same piece of content we

00:34:43 - 00:35:42

could do exactly the same hair we give it to a different editor they edited it differently it will serve differently you know it could be on Tik Tok and with a different format or a different font it's just going to look different right and I'm never ever ever scared scared to share my secret Source because that's mine like and I want to be able to add value to that person and what people decide to do with it I wish them well you know that's that's a good point it's like you give it away for free you

00:35:12 - 00:36:08

create your own Vibe your own Carisma your own turn of voice your own editing style and it's um you know I I've saw chriso talk about this where it's like uh he calls it like the Gordon Ramsey effect so he gives away all of his recipes on TV for free essentially on free to Air TV then people rush to Myers and David Jones to buy his cookware y because they're like I need that to I need that one to make the food that good and it's this perception it's this law of perception so regarding your perception

00:35:40 - 00:36:44

you pride yourself on challenging the status quo yeah and inspiring women to feel beautiful confident and empowered how did you find your voice within the industry when you know you were seen as this digital Creator and you're kind of up and coming and earning your stripes at what point did you really find your voice and really lean into your power I think it's been all the way through I don't think that there's been a pivotal moment um so to speak more incremental yeah definitely I think for me there's

00:36:15 - 00:37:23

not it's been a long time like this didn't happen overnight I've been doing hair since I was 14 years old and I've never been scared to speak out that's for sure um yeah I think it's just been for me it's I've pounded the pavement for a really long time this is not something that started yesterday there's not been like a a quick way to get there like I'm truly somebody who's like I was born into the hairdressing industry like three generations I I love what I do and I'm

00:36:49 - 00:37:59

also somebody who's tasted every part of it so like I started on the salon floor as an apprentice I then started managing a salon I then owned a salon then I became an educator and then a brand ambassador and then from a brand ambassador perspective I decided to go out and do my own product like I've worked in big Brands I've consulted for those big Brands I've built their influencer programs and structures I really feel like I've tasted every part of my industry and I love like I love

00:37:24 - 00:38:35

hairdresses more than I love hair and I think that's why product is the perfect part of my industry for me how long did it take you to realize that you wanted to do products probably half of my career and it took a really good friend of mine he was just like you're creating all these cool looks man like why you doing with other people [ __ ] do it yourself I was like hey that's smart so we literally did little did I know like an Ecom store a um yeah manufacturing and like there was so much

00:38:02 - 00:39:01

about product development that I had no idea about there was so much about building a big brand that I had no idea about and I'm still learning every single day like I can't wait for our little whiteboard session after this you know like obsessed I want to go back to your childhood just for a moment and then dive into what you're doing now with the product and all the rest of it you said that you're your um it in your it runs in your family it's generational yes so when you were 14 like at what point do

00:38:32 - 00:39:38

you realiz did you realize that I wanted to do hair was it something your mom inspired you to do or your grandmother like how did this come to be yeah so uh my parents are divorced and every weekend when I would go visit my dad like Sundays would be my dad day um I would you know Saturday was were Sundays and I would head over to my stepmom's salon and her mom owned the salon and then she passed it down to her and then you know I was a a kid like from honestly I reckon like four or five years old like my earliest memories with

00:39:04 - 00:40:15

my dad is in a salon and yeah like I was obsessed with everything about it the smell of the cigarette mixed with the burnt hair The Nostalgia of like the women bitching about their husbands like it was just so intoxicating it's so different like world's apart to what it is now you know but I still get that smell sometimes yeah um that I love that I really love did you think it really chose me not the other way around so just being around it by osmosis you're like this is exciting I want to do this

00:39:40 - 00:40:32

by the time you're 14 you really wanted to get your hands into it and start doing yourself yeah I basically was still at school um I was 13 actually and there was this hairdressing Salon around the corner cuz my stepmom was like you know like you know she didn't have a salon at the time she's like you need to go and like work in a on to make sure that you are 100% certain you want to commit four years of your life to learning I was like okay and I wanted to leave school early I didn't do a school

00:40:06 - 00:41:09

certificate I left in year n and I started working in a local salon and then this hairdresser who was a Backpacker from the UK he's like kid you're way too talented at like 13 cuz I could blow dry and everything it was like part of my DNA right so I was just like sure and he's like you need to go to Tony and Guy and Tony and Guy Back Then was like The Benchmark like that's who you wanted to work with and I lined up for a job literally there was like 14 people in the interview process back

00:40:38 - 00:41:43

then and you know one beautiful woman named Kathy she was like I'll take her she's amazing wow and she taught me how to dress she taught me how to she took me shopping she taught me how to walk she taught me how to talk because at 13 like imagine a 13y old now that's crazy and you're putting them on a floor in a salon and expecting someone to pay $80 to get their hair done it's not going to happen yeah whereas she was really like actually she's she's got the skill got

00:41:10 - 00:42:09

to get her verbiage up we got to get her dress up you know and I respect that so much and I carried so much of that you were 13 I was 13 man and which one were you working yet um I started well I interviewed in in Oxford Street which is like completely different for me like I was this girl from Liverpool I'd never even like been to Oxford Street and I catch two buses in a train to get to Oxford Street I get there there's like all these flamboyant gay guys and I'm like oh my God this is

00:41:39 - 00:42:39

what I want to do for a living and then you know she and they didn't want me at Oxford Street I was obviously not a right fit and she ended up you know having this franchise in L car and she took me on that's incredible and still to this day um like she carries my product in her salon wow like it's just it really is the most beautiful story that's beautiful and then like what was that like being 13 working and learning and literally being told how to dress how to speak how to act how to behave

00:42:09 - 00:43:13

the best man it was the best like I I kind of wish I I still carry a lot of that in in you know or I did when I was um mentoring my team because you know for me we're in the beauty industry and I know a lot of people I'll probably get cancelled even saying this but they don't rock up to work with their hair done they don't rock up with their makeup done they don't Pride themselves in the way they dress you know because they just want to be them right but I still think you're representing a brand

00:42:42 - 00:43:40

you know and you are your own personal brand within that but being in the beauty industry I think there's more to just skill you know and it depends on the type of client you're trying to attract and she understood that really early she's like you need to look this certain way so that person can trust you if you're doing a corporate hair um and you're 14 years old like we might need to put you in a suit jacket so you can just like make them feel more comfortable and I was happy with that

00:43:11 - 00:44:13

interesting so she was training you on the aspects of branding presence customer experienceability yes yeah but truly customer service like let's call it what it is you know like how are you going to show up for your customer to make them feel comfortable cuz that's all it is right it's not about you it's about them do you think that that's changed in the modern world do you think people aren't really carrying that same tradition with them anymore I'd really do and I think the

00:43:41 - 00:44:51

smartest of Brands right now are going back to basics you know we've called it Community for such a long time it's such an overused word it's a group of customers that you want to show up and serve every single day and and it's so important like loyalty programs are being bought like brought back now because people understand that we live in a world where that influencer highly Q rated like private jet in your scene like you know fake entrepreneur lifestyle that doesn't work anymore it's

00:44:16 - 00:45:09

not cutting through now it's about really understanding who your customer is and how you can better serve them to thank them for supporting you you know it's not the other way around m and so when you're talking about authenticity you're really trying to dial more into like who exactly you're speaking to because how is your authenticity going to come across if you're not even aware of who your audience is yeah so how how do you balance the creative aspects of hair styling you

00:44:43 - 00:45:41

know from a young age right through your career with the business side of the salon and the hair care products how do you keep this stuff uh in tan with each other I don't know the answer to that question uh what have been the biggest struggles that you found trying to balance at all at the same time I just I feel like I outwork everyone I'm not going to lie and I I've i' I have a really good friend of mine that's been trying to like work on my whip strategy for many years it just doesn't work for

00:45:12 - 00:46:17

me right because I'm a true creative so I love chaos I love working in chaos and I think I was telling you a little bit earlier like I have found a really cool way to like kind of put all my thoughts on an Infinity whiteboard and just work on projects that are most important right now so for the listeners what is a whip and what is an affinity whiteboard okay so um a whip is your work in progress so like it's your to-do list really of fancy terms right but um I used to like keep it in my notes right

00:45:44 - 00:46:56

so all the thing like basic tick it all off like very simple and then I was like obviously this is a bigger business now so we need to figure out a way I tried everything Monday assana like every kind of uh piece of tech that would keep the team or me intact working with creatives that doesn't always work CU I felt like they spent more time making it pretty than actually actioning those items so now I have I use actually canva the infinity whiteboard which is like basically the Whiteboard doesn't stop

00:46:20 - 00:47:18

which is so good for Creative Minds because you want to go wide you want to go deep but then you can create different pages for different projects and for someone like me who's running like you know 15 16 large scale events a year I need each project to have that size and it works really well so take me into one of those Infinity whiteboards what like what might I see how would you break something down how do you explore it so for me I'm doing like whip so like weekly whip so what's a whip just to

00:46:49 - 00:47:50

find that quickly so you're working progress so like your to-do list so this could be your weekly task sheet right okay so your weekly task sheet is sitting on the left hand side right and that's everything that you need to non-negotiable needs to happen this week right what might that look like for you for an event um booking makeup artists securing like uh content team making sure that everybody on board has got all of their advertising material ready to go that the landing page is built that

00:47:19 - 00:48:25

the the team has had all of the gwps ready to like book all the gift bags um I've spoken to my husband the are being looked after like I'm talking everything possibly that could need to happen is on that sheet then across is my overview because I think when you're so bogged down in the daytoday and especially for everyone who's listening if you work for yourself and you don't have a big team there's so many tasks that can overwhelm you and you lose like line of sight like

00:47:53 - 00:48:59

what is the big picture what is the North Star so my North Star is always visible always so like that from to 2026 my calendar is sort of mapped out in that North Star projectwise and what we're trying to achieve you know what I mean like what's the point of me doing that event if it doesn't get me to the North Star right in the moment it might seem like the right thing to do but in the grand scheme it it doesn't make sense well could take you away from the North Star could be detractor 100% you

00:48:25 - 00:49:32

know so that always is above me while I'm working in the weeds right so like this is always here and that way if a task comes here that is going to distract me from that that needs to be removed or given to somebody and it's worked really well from us and then the next board like in canver it's called a board so the next board that you can use is like your content strategy to build into that what's going into that and then it's live so I can then share that or copy and paste it put it in or I can create a

00:48:58 - 00:50:03

loom Style video that I could then teach my team how to then execute that that's a really good point we use miror board is it similar very similar so like what we can do is create um there's another one we use as well what's the other one other than M miror that we use right oh so exactly milanote so we use milanote and Miro and uh milillo's great CU you can like Implement videos you can Implement files you can have files within files and you can create like this kind of like three-dimensional

00:49:31 - 00:50:25

whiteboard and it's intense and and it just allows you to kind of put everything in one place and it sounds like it's overwhelming but it's really cool because it's like having your thoughts on a screen agreed and then you can start to uh align things and you know put things together and you know compartmentalize pretty much what I created in Cana and the reasons why I chose Cana from a creative perspective is people get it already so I needed to find something that they already

00:49:58 - 00:50:55

natively kind of working with um Milano actually my brother is a videographer and he brought that to me when I first did our campaign and it was amazing to flesh out cuz it does have it's really good for people who want a customized template like someone you you know when you need ideas and you love a template perfect for them cuz you've got like I don't know a photographic template you've got a briefing template you've got in Miller note whereas in canra I felt like you have more flexibility cuz

00:50:26 - 00:51:23

there's less there um and I do love it for the same things I could upload video links I could put in like you know I don't know about you but do you save everything on your Instagram like things that you love like content ideas yeah I've actually got files now for like different things like sales stuff I like content creation stuff I like like I've got a little format because it's like my little uh Treasure Trove of ideas 100% so then what I do is I take those links I open it up on my desktop I'll put it

00:50:55 - 00:51:58

into I'll screenshot the cover image because um I'm very visual oh I just tipped sry about it it's okay um I'm very visual so I need that cover image to like trigger me yeah I'll screenshot the cover image I'll pop it into the Whiteboard and then I'll hyperlink it make sure that it we've got reference but then from that in that moment I I know what I want to create with it but then if I go back to it I'm like what was that about so I straight away make it relevant to myself so I'll put it in

00:51:27 - 00:52:38

the content board and I'm like I would love to see this like this and I'll just park it but that way my thought is parked and then I can go back to it so when I do have a Content day I'm not sitting there with no script no ideas and like I'm like sitting in front of the camera going what am I'm creating today cuz it's really hard to recall everything for sure but I also think today it's so noisy online that you need to find really smart strategic ways to stand out and so many amazing creators

00:52:03 - 00:53:01

are doing it so if you can take inspiration for them and then reverse engineer that piece of content like we were speaking before make it relative to like you and your Niche and like your let's not even call it a niche like your actual job go for it so if you get a spark park it park it then categorize it yes save it and then you know when you have a meeting with the team they're like well show us an example you're like boom boom boom 100% or it might not even be your team it could just be you you

00:52:32 - 00:53:26

could be having a meeting with yourself like I book in meetings with myself you know and I'm like okay cool what am I what am I doing right now and I need to to time block things I think to go back to you how are you managing it all kind of thing is I need to allocate certain time to certain things including my family and my kids you know so when you say you book meetings with yourself I find this fascinating by by the way like you DM yourself you comment on your own content and then you have meetings with

00:52:59 - 00:54:02

yourself I'm starting to actually sound quite crazy but like what do you mean so when you book a meeting with yourself like what's do you have a process or or it's a literally a calendar like email like an I like a a Google meet with myself which is non-negotiable because if I book a meeting with you I'm not letting anyone book over it so I felt like you know sometimes when you are across so many different projects you can get torn you know from side to side and I just needed two hours to myself

00:53:31 - 00:54:35

that's a non-negotiable it's in it's a meeting with that done yeah amazing I love that I love the non-negotiable mentality as well how do you continue to grow and evolve in the industry that seemingly is always changing and what keeps you motivated my dad always says um he not he said it negatively but he says you don't have a ceiling he's like you just don't like have a roof right and I'm always kind of like striving for more and I really took that on board um early

00:54:02 - 00:55:13

on in my life and I I don't believe that there is a ceiling like you know people say like aren't you content I'm like no I'm just not like cuz I want to learn more you know everyone has Hobbies um I don't one of my hobbies is learning and I feel like that's why I keep striving for more cu the more you learn the more you realize there's more out there there and you shouldn't have one and and do you think that with the climate changing what have you seen change in the last 10 or 15 years like

00:54:38 - 00:55:53

uh with social media from like 2006 to 2010 2015 like have you seen different areas within your industry oh not only just my industry I think it's across the board like we saw like from filters like let's go back back right so when I would create a would take a photo I forgot about filters I always taking a photo like you know on an iPhone probably 4 um and we're what 16 so it's a few Generations ago right so I we would take a photo and then we'd put like a sepia filter or a black and white filter like

00:55:15 - 00:56:27

you would never do that now right um then we went into like a Hu like a heavily curated really polished beautiful all about retouching like not one bit of imperfection having the beautiful feed yeah curated curated then we saw Tik Tok and Tik to was like I'm still not there cuz I I still love curation because I'm in the beauty industry right but you saw this authenticity and this foundered stories and this like crazy like get to know me more and get ready with me and like we talk [ __ ] and I'm going to tell you

00:55:52 - 00:56:57

about my dog and all of a sudden at the end I'm going to sell you a product like it's weird Weir how how how everything has evolved and changed but I love every single generation of it and I think every single generation of it is making us better because the Smart Ones are seeing the gaps you know and changing the way that we do things and what's your opinion on when people are like I don't like it that it constantly changes I just catch up and then it changes again like what kind of mentality do you think

00:56:24 - 00:57:31

you need to have like how do you find AE ation for it how do you keep up how do you adapt and stay agile I think you have to be excited in the learnings I think that's it like you know I've I've had many clients sit in my chair or in in my room when I'm teaching a social media class and they will say that exact thing and I try and share with them where I um find my sources of inspiration because they're like how did you know that I'm like follow later Gram's EDM like do you

00:56:58 - 00:58:15

know like I don't know like I'm obsessed with learning like follow the Creator follow what's his name Mo the Instagram uh CEO guy with the glasses smart guy yes but like I feel like you need to find people in your industry but also like in content creation to keep up like what's moving what's changing because the writing on the wall you know like what about um I don't know if you remember but like there was all of these like trending sound experts where are all them now yeah I don't know where' they

00:57:37 - 00:58:28

go like I I don't see them anymore right or have they pivoted and now they're brand experts like I'm sure you see a billion brand experts on the Instagram CU I see I see uh Trends come and go and I see like stars of content com and go like when I started Instagram carousels were like really popping off and I was like cool let's jump on that train now it's like carousels are like like eh you know everyone wants videos now but now everyone's doing talking head content how do we bring some entertainment or

00:58:02 - 00:58:56

theater into it and I always just like a challenge I'm like cool okay there's a new game we have to keep up you know people are tired of seeing the same thing and I think Instagram goes through different iterations a because people get bored yeah we get tired of seeing the same crap you don't want to watch the same TV uh series or show again and again and again you want something new two is like people you know definitely want to um see a different adap like the same thing taught in a different way or

00:58:29 - 00:59:24

add a different flare to it or edit it differently I think what's really interesting now is like people want to see social media kind of like a portal into your real world like take me into your real day-to-day life I want to understand it really from your perspective because people are tired of the facade or the fake curated life they know isn't real they want to see the real the real thing behind the behind the scenes do you feel like you're doing that no no we're having IMM meeting next

00:58:57 - 00:59:42

week and we're we're actually sitting down and we're we're going to discuss how do we actually give people unprecedented access to what we do here behind the scenes and some of the conversations being well you know we don't want to give away our our IP or the stuff that we're really great at and I'm like yeah but that's the magic people want it magic it's like what do they want let's give it to them and I've walked around here yeah it's fascinating

00:59:19 - 01:00:26

it's not only fascinating it's inspiring because each each little Hub and and and my my how I judge somebody straight away is how you introduced me to your team so when I met you the first thing you did was take me straight in and introduce me to each and every single person in your team and for me that's just a good human right um but each one of the team their smiles they're happy the culture like that [ __ ] matters right so for me if I was to I would want to meet each one of

00:59:53 - 01:00:41

them each one of them is a character right so like why are you not creating content like I want to see you and create content you know like do you know what I'm saying I don't know that would be my like what I agree and we've been talking about this because I think you raised a really good point here is people want unprecedented access like I said to cam the other day when I'm looking at someone's content what do you really want to see and I've started asking myself that question when I watch

01:00:17 - 01:01:14

Gary when I watch hosi when I watch Mel Robbins David gogans I'm like I want to go into your world and really experience it I don't want to see this curated version of you and I think when I started asking myself that question and then reflecting back on myself I'm like oo how could we utilize that so we're really excited for next year and I think that's really challenging though it's not easy cuz this we're talking about like partially reality TV which then comes with 24-hour access

01:00:45 - 01:02:00

that comes with more editing more planning more prepping uh my employees signing contracts that they happy to be on camera like there's a lot of extra work it's actually crazy and not everyone has a Rock following them around all the time right so for me that was always like what I wanted but it's really expensive to do right so I wonder whether or not and I've been looking at that like how do I give them a under the you know sheets kind of vibe without having to spend 24-hour access well I think we're we're

01:01:23 - 01:02:25

seeing the world go from gen one social media and what I Define as gen one is like you post and you curate and everything is very edited gen two is like kind of you creating a lifestyle show partially yes like really having a camera over your shoulder as you're doing live and if you look at all the highest performing content creators right now they're doing it like that's the next era and but is it the Journey of you building the biggest agency well you got to look at it like uh like is

01:01:54 - 01:02:43

that the series potentially yeah because I I think there's there's a few ways we've looked at it and for those listening to to this right now like this is where I want to inspire people I don't always have it figured out and I think most entrepreneurs don't like I've hung out with some pretty big players in the content creation space and they're always like what's next what can we do different how do we adapt how do we get more versatile how do we introduce new stuff they're never like oh damn it it's

01:02:19 - 01:03:15

always changing like it's it's always an embracing of change yeah it's exciting but also it stimulates you creatively it gets your juices flowing and makes you smarter like just it's just cool it's cool to try new things it's cool to test it's cool to fall flat on your face it's cool to get haters it's like it's so cool like I don't know man you just whatever you put in is what you're going to get out like really so take me into your world like imagine if we're we have

01:02:47 - 01:03:44

unprecedented access to what you're doing right now I understand that you're prepping for an event you said you do 16 to 18 of these a year Okay so is it all your own in-house events are people bringing you in to help manage their events what does that look like a little bit of mix of everything really like if you look at I mean if from a consumer perspective we'd have consumer facing events where I'm starting to collaborate I'm really good at clubs um I love working with different brands and and

01:03:15 - 01:04:28

sharing audiences and understanding like their how our businesses can what's what's an example of one of those um in recently I'm talking to nookie okay um who is a Australian fashion label really cool founder Nikita and you know she is so customer Centric she's all about moments and her and I Just Vibe so I'm like cool let's share a space create like a really VIP almost like influential like let's make our customer the influence for a day let's put them like get them picked up and

01:03:51 - 01:04:42

dropped off in a fancy car and like let let me do their hair and I'll get the best makeup artists do their makeup and let them experience something that they never they see this they've been watching this for 10 years but they they're like I could never be that I'm like but you can let us give it to you for a day that's cool so that's one side of the events and then you've got like B2B events where like you know the education master classes um you know in different genres

01:04:17 - 01:05:23

whether it be hair col like color styling or social business um online events uh in store store events like with our retailers just did a big one like o hair and beauty where I got to like go and meet my customers that are buying thean hair care which is so cool cuz you have no idea who they really are until you meet them uh and then you got like big big ones like fashion week we did a huge uh content Suite it's something that I've been dreaming of for many years I've worked backstage at

01:04:50 - 01:05:58

Fashion Week which is very cool for most hairdresses for me I was like it's so boring cuz you do the one look on like 30 models and then you get one piece of press if you're lucky and you usually got to pay to play so I was like how do we flip this so I really looked at where all of the eyeballs were where where are we going to get the most visibility it's front row man it's like the people that are going to the show it's not the actual show right so I created a really really big content Suite so it was an

01:05:24 - 01:06:55

Instagram content Suite in at the grounds of Ely they were the most amazing partner I put 60 artists 30 hairdresses and 30 makeup BS in the one room from 6:00 a.m. to 600 p.m. I invited 300 in influencers a day we did 1 hour appointments and it was the DJ started playing at 6: a.m. we didn't finish till 6:00 p.m. it was [ __ ] crazy we created I believe on average 12 to 1500 pieces of content a day wow that's incredible the only thing I regret was not setting up some sort of AMV metric to measure I couldn't keep up like I was

01:06:10 - 01:07:19

like do I download the stories like what do I do do I just put this up do I repost it like it was crazy and then my friend who works in media because you're measuring all of this right I was like No just thought it was cool so we're like frantically downloading stories so like you know build it out and they then present it but off the back of it um we launched out alcohol collab and off the back of it we pitched the same concept um to Dan Murphy's and to westfields like it was just crazy just crazy crazy crazy events

01:06:44 - 01:07:50

do you find it difficult to keep up with all of the details and all of these different events and Brands no you love it I love it I love being I love I'm a control freak you know like to the point where we had pearls on our Pairs and I was across that detail like yes and it was in the infinity board yes yeah 100% And I know you're planning an event now for 800 people yes um take us into that what are you doing oh it's called stop the scroll which is very native to what we're talking about now um I've been

01:07:16 - 01:08:30

teaching hairdresses for 10 years to get on social media they were a little bit slow to get there now that they're there it's so noisy so congested I'm like how can I now share my learnings with them in such a noisy congested Newsfeed how do they stand out we could say be authentic we could say you know create better content what does that mean how do I do it like they don't get it so I thought I would really it's really over ambitious I've chosen 12 stylists all different walks of life some have never

01:07:53 - 01:08:55

done stage presence before some like veterans in the space some have 100,000 followers some have 2,000 followers because I wanted to even the playing field CU I hate rebuttal like you know when someone's in the stage they go oh it's easy for them because they've got that I managed to like not do that and the case study is basically whether or not we could get people to stop scrolling to get them to attend the event interesting right so our whole leadup campaign is the beginning of the

01:08:25 - 01:09:39

education so then you're like you're here because because of what we did yes now we're going to teach you how to do that yes interesting in different formats so the theory is we'll have um all 12 artists creating and the way that I've chosen them is for what they're known for so like we're opening with a guy called Kane he's known for his Vlogs really flambo really energetic um super entertaining so he leader piece of content is him being late and him thinking that he's like late to the to

01:09:02 - 01:10:00

the show and that went live and that's had 200,000 views so he wakes up and it's a dream yeah so everyone thinks it's a dream right don't now but on the day he's actually late so we open up and it's like this really cool render of an iPhone Discovery feed and all of their amazing like different formats like whether they're known for their carousels whether like we've got serious Sally Shantel who's like very educational very traditional you know and I love that because there's a

01:09:31 - 01:10:33

learner for her you know and then there's you know the wit and the entertainment and you know we're really trying to make sure that they understand their storytelling you know we have to be everything now you can't just put up a pretty picture of bellage and expect it to convert man like you have to be a videographer you have to be an editor you have to be a copywriter you you have to do voiceovers you have have to try and test different things because it's noisy and we need to keep up so I hope

01:10:02 - 01:10:57

that this education session really arms them with like a different perspective yeah it sounds badass and we'll put a link uh in the episode for anyone that wants to check that out that sounds fascinating thank you so much and like to put an event like that together how much time is involved how much prep like how do you get the speakers how do you make sure that everything like really comes together look I think uh I'd probably say it takes a good eight weeks for me because you're trying to like

01:10:29 - 01:11:30

also round up a team make sure like you know they're all available um WhatsApp is your best friend at that point because you just want to make sure that all of your conversations are happening in the one spot I'm obsessed with loom videos because I can do a presentation and then like just deliver it in a way that they don't have to read it um yeah good solid eight weeks because you've got your leadup your promo you know like making sure everyone is comfortable like I love that I want to make sure that they feel

01:11:00 - 01:11:54

confident you know while they're busy figure around what what they want to wear you know which is a big deal for a lot of people it is it is a lot it's a big deal but I love it too because it means they care you know they want to show up for you they want to make sure that they're on brand it's like it's really cool what what are the first few steps someone can take to start producing content because you know it can seem overwhelming scary I don't know how to do it I think for me

01:11:28 - 01:12:31

one of the things is like just start consuming it from people you admire you want to like work like just start there and start to percolate in that but like what what's your approach and what do you suggest people do to get started on social media I think you need to figure out and taste what you're good at so for example if you're a good writer start there you know if you are really charismatic and you're cool on camera I would literally sleep get a tripod open up your iPhone start

01:11:59 - 01:13:19

videotaping I think you know if you've got a good eye and you take beautiful photographs start shooting your content like that I don't think that there's a right or wrong for anyone I think you need to taste everything but then also utilize chat gbt utilize the AI tools that are available for you now utilize canva and its template it is so so much easier now to create content than ever before so much so that your I guess challenge will be is how do you then stand out because it all looks the same

01:12:39 - 01:13:40

you know like how do you prompt chat gbt in a way where you don't sound like a robot you know and my caption is vastly different to your caption do you know what I mean yeah um or how how how are you shooting a different perspective like you said like is is it over like my one of my friends came in with one of those no she came in with one of those like um tripods that hang on her neck so it was like true POV like it was actually POV that's wild yeah it was it was super cool because like you actually

01:13:10 - 01:14:29

got to see what she was seeing like is it that you know but I think taste everything and yes consume but I think sometimes people over consume and they get so caught up in what other people people are doing that they never get around to actually producing or they get disabled by their content not looking at that level yet because they're looking at creators that have been creating for 10 years like bro you start here like that's cool too like my biggest thing is um I love the Next Generation and I've always said to

01:13:49 - 01:14:48

apprentices I'm like dude don't try and be me it's inauthentic to you you can't tell my story my story I was like tell me your story from today I was like how sick would it be is if we could actually watch you learn you're an apprentice why are you trying to be a CEO don't fake that the fake it to you make it doesn't work right now I was like if you can share with me your learnings today like hey I'm a first year apprentice and I just went to a natalan class and it was

01:14:19 - 01:15:17

dope I learned this check it out this is what I learned this is what I did do you like my version of it that is going to be more your your truth that is going to engage more with that audience and it's going to take those people on the journey better yet when you're 50 and you've got all of these cool Doc it's literally your documentary right there of your life that's pretty sick man yeah document the process uh like Gary ve says not try to edit the process that's it but I think even people get too

01:14:48 - 01:15:39

fixated in that I don't know you know when you first heard that I don't know about you but like me I was like what do you mean I didn't get it he'd be like document don't create I was like what does that actually mean yeah to find that break that down I was like so do I go to a documentary like I watching document this a series like you know I'm so literal yeah I'm I I it just basically means share your day-to-day lives your learnings and like somebody's going to appreciate it someone's going

01:15:14 - 01:16:00

to listen it and somebody's going to learn from it exactly and I think you're right in saying like just own where you're at right so don't try to be the master if you're not a master like I think content can be so fascinating from a unique perspective and if your perspective is I'm starting that's interesting to someone if your perspective is like I'm pretty early and I'm making a ton of mistakes and everything's gone sideways that's interesting to someone like there's that

01:15:36 - 01:16:35

guy that's going viral cuz he's like a 9 to5 I don't know if you've seen it no I don't like he literally takes you into his mundane 9 to5 like he's like I'm a super white guy I got a basic job [ __ ] hate my life people watching it like crazy like he's at his office he gets the same cof he goes through the same like it's this you know crazy thing that people like watching you know yeah it's kind eotic and interesting crazy yeah and it's like trying to find a

01:16:06 - 01:17:02

unique angle like have you seen poor boy coffee I brought him up a few times on the Pod I think I have he's this guy who started a cafe wasn't really doing well started popup guy I think he's got an established retail business and and he's like uh it's called poor boy coffee and he essentially just goes through his day-to- day and he's like this is how many coffees I sold this is how much money I lost my numbers and I think people are finding entertainment in this reality uh of of someone's life and it's

01:16:34 - 01:17:29

getting weird but people people certainly love watching it I I love so for me I don't I watch things but I don't really watch things like I watch them I pause them I hear them but I'm like reading the comments straight away like I'm the popcorn girl that I like oh that's juicy you know but yeah I think it's just capturing that authentic reality and and doing your version of that yeah and that's really challenging and I think that's something I'm going to ask you right um how do you keep it

01:17:02 - 01:18:00

on brand that's a great question I think it depends on whether you're a corporation or you're an individual and I think one and the same right one and the same in many ways I think I I treat them slightly different so a corporation typically has a core promise a core key or function or a thing that they do you know like Red Bull are always pushing the boundaries that's kind of their thing and Nike is always about like just do it pursue greatness Harley Davidson's always about like you know freedom and

01:17:31 - 01:18:21

liberty it's a bit I think a bit easier with a corporation to really dial in on their thing um and and formulate content around that in famous cases for a person it's a little different a little different because there's there's Nuance like if you look at someone like Joe Rogan he like is a UFC commentator that was on Fear Factor who's also a comedian that has a podcast and loves hunting and promoting and building Brands yes that's a lot of stuff and I think you know Gary

01:17:55 - 01:18:56

ve said this you know kind of perfectly he's like you are your Niche and my interpretation of that cuz I think people can interpret that however it was like oh okay like all of you the way you are is unique and just live into that and own that um but I think you still need to curate it slightly and what I mean is at the beginning you have to kind of be really dialed in on one thing to to the point you said which is well who the hell are you speaking to who's your Target demographic what do they want how do you

01:18:26 - 01:19:17

entertain them and give them what they want the way that they want it packaged but it has to be authentic to you but there's still a bridge of strategy where it's like what do they want why should they care why would they want it from me where else would they get it if I didn't provide it and then how do I bring something special to the equation and it's difficult to unpack but I think the first step I I I tell people is like just start like just start by producing content and if you're scared like do it

01:18:51 - 01:20:02

on a private feed and have your mom and your friends on there yeah great and just turn the camera on and just film it edit it post it and just get comfortable with the creative process and explore it don't try to be perfect from the jump no just try to have something lean into the imperfections cuz I feel like the secret source is there also um you know people I think like people really enjoy those stories like I think people will less people will celebrate your successes and more people will support you if youve

01:19:25 - 01:20:33

fallen down a little bit and shared that we love imperfect characters for sure we love imperfect characters like look at every Disney film every famous Blockbuster the the the primary character is always flawed but we like that about them it makes them human it makes them relevant yeah so I want to share a quote that you shared which is um we all deserve to feel beautiful and confident no matter what our age ethnicity or hair type is what does that mean to you oh it means so much um for me when I first started in hairdressing

01:20:00 - 01:21:16

in Australia um the way that we were taught and the way that we um do hair was based around Caucasian hair types I I didn't have that at all um nor did I feel like the the products that were available for were for me either and I didn't respect the way that we were being taught so I had to change that you know I taught myself um my clients were vastly different all different ages all different ethnicities and that's because I needed to understand every single hair type to be able to master each

01:20:38 - 01:21:41

individual one how many hair types are there po so many um you know there's like six seven different curl types or even more really when you think about it but technically um there's there's so many you know and there there's different Journeys and lifesty cycles of of a woman's hair you know like when you're born it looks a certain way you know when you're a teenager it's a certain way you could be having hormonal issues and it's a certain way you get cancer it falls out grows back different

01:21:09 - 01:22:18

you know you go gray it's different and your hair tells you so much about yourself it it tells you stories and I think um that's why that quote means so much to me because I just haded to change it M so when you look at someone's hair and they might say things like I want it to look like this yeah what's your what's your go to rebuttal I'm trying to be blind here you know but like usually you know I feel like you know most most hairdresses go like what do you want to do today

01:21:44 - 01:22:49

whereas I kind of start with a conversation you know and I never start with a cape on because you know you rock up and your clients's got a cape on who is she you don't know her so I've always been one to like sit down eye contact never speak through a mirror because you lose that uh and make sure that the Cape is off so I can identify like who she is that all you know is like what she's wearing and you know she could be like a corporate she could be a mom within active wear you know so you the

01:22:16 - 01:23:20

consultation is everything um that's where I usually start what would be involved in the consultation so obviously sitting down I cont profiling you know their lifestyle what they typically do I usually start with what they hate really yeah okay cuz what they like is huge you know if they show you a reference photo I usually just stick my finger over the face cuz I'm like do you still like it or you want to look like her like it's is it the hair you like or you want to be her you know

01:22:48 - 01:23:50

um like everyone loves JLo but no one really likes warm hair you know like they like I hate warm hair I'm like wait show me J you know so I think what they don't like is where we where we start and then I ask what do you love about your hair and we really want to make sure those answers are higher up in the priority list you know like do you love your curl do you love wearing it natural do you hate it do you want to smooth it out great I'm not going to deny that I think you know our job as as as Beauty

01:23:19 - 01:24:20

for professionals is to make sure that she feels beautiful it's not about you not about your content not about what you're trying to capture you know I I had this one client that used to come in all the time and I swear to God she would come every four weeks and she would have like I'm this much cut off of hair to the point where my team was like dude how do you even charge her you're not even cutting her you're just talking to her for 20 minutes I was like but that's what I'm charging her for like

01:23:49 - 01:24:44

she wants my my time like it's not about the hair she just trusts me that I'm only going to take this much off and I don't try and convince her to take more off so interesting and I I think like it's such an important detail when you're working with a client because when we work with strategy sometimes people come in they're like tell me what to do and I'm like well hang on a second like we're talking about your life and your personal brand and your company like we

01:24:17 - 01:25:01

need to figure out how you want to do it and then they're like well I'm looking to you for the perfect answer and it's like there's no Silver Bullet and I think you know when you working with a client or you're working with a business or an individual like often times can you say that again yeah which part tell why the Silver Bullet thing people people look for a silver bullet but they think that you have that answer they think that you have it in the barel ready to go like surely this guy I'm

01:24:40 - 01:25:40

paying him a lot of money he's going to have the answer they think you're Jesus they think you're Jesus but often times as a consultant or someone that they're going to for advice it's it's actually your mirroring who's in front of you and you're allowing I guess a safe facilitation or a transition from where they are to where they want to be and they have to tell you what that is how do you get there in a timely manner have you kind of reverse engineered that with yourself and go

01:25:09 - 01:26:02

these are the key questions to get us to that faster it's a good point and I think there's there's different personality types yeah and there's there's like for example like some people are like I want to compete and be the best yeah in business right and you're like okay okay cool you're that kind of archetype other people are like I just want to make money and sell my business great a very different conversation I'm like that's cool too yeah uh some people are like this is my

01:25:36 - 01:26:32

passion and I don't care about the money I just want to really spend all my time doing this so I I try to identify what type of entrepreneur they are and then I try to almost always extrapolate well what are your goals like what is the destination that you're trying to get to cuz for for me the brand is like people's perception of you your experience what they get uh where you currently are right now branding is like where do you want to be what's your Mountain like what's your Mount Everest

01:26:04 - 01:26:58

what's your Mount Olympus what does that look like for you for me for cam for for Rachel it's like what's your North Star right you talked about it earlier it's it's very clear and I think the way I kind of look at it as similar to you is are we focusing on the battle in front of you right now or are we looking at the war yeah cuz you might be winning this battle battle but are you winning the war in the grand scheme of things and often times when we look at their their version of war or their Mount

01:26:31 - 01:27:30

Olympus it's actually out of synchronicity with what they're currently doing of course and then we try to I try to retrofit well what are the things that are in the way is it fear is it concern is overwhelm is it stress is it lack is it are you in survivor mode so you can't even fathom doing this right now I just try to get the ingredients and then very uh very carefully allowing them and their minds to to slowly build a path between where they are and where they want to get to and at least just like do what I call a

01:27:00 - 01:27:59

mud map and be like does it look like this as an example well no we can't do that that and that because they're problematic okay what would you replace them with so I really try to see myself as a facilitator uh up the mountain so to speak so say for example do you do that with a personal brand and somebody who has our brand let's call it our company or Corporation are you doing them simultaneously because everything is very founder Le now or are you okay if they don't want to lean into the founder

01:27:30 - 01:28:16

stuff I'm okay if they don't want to do it okay I think there's like you said before there's no one way yeah and I think that it's just their way so what works for them maybe I tell people all the time maybe personal branding isn't for you and that's totally cool maybe it is maybe like there's so many different ways you can pair match and strategize there's literally a thousand different potential routes we could take yeah I'm trying to find one that works for you

01:27:53 - 01:28:54

that you're excited about which sounds like what you're doing with hair is when the client's in front of you you're like hey let like tell me about what you love tell me about what you hate tell me about what makes you excited let's stop looking at JLo's face like really trying to pull it out so funny that you said that like as a stylist who believed in condition like hair condition before result what's hair condition so like beautiful hair like healthy like making sure that the hair is integrous right so

01:28:23 - 01:29:30

we maintain that hair health so if we're there most people want like you want to go from black to blonde that's that's not a good idea today right that's a big jump yeah well it's like I have a white labeled product and I want to exit a 100 million and I don't have a following like we there but my clients that's why I said to you it's really important to identify who they are because I needed the client that needed to understand that we're on the long journey yeah it's not an immed thing

01:28:55 - 01:30:19

yeah which is beautiful yeah so for you looking back on your career what's something that you wish that you had have known at the beginning you now know I love that man nothing at all and and it's only until this year that I fully understand why because every single part of my career has then opened up the door to my mind to then open up the next door the next opportunity which then led to that learning to that opportunity to meeting that person nothing nothing nothing I would never change it at all not not a

01:29:38 - 01:30:40

single minute because I think a lot of people are scrambling to find the pathway the big answer the big outcome and you're saying no I I I had to incrementally adapt and learn every lesson along the way and I'm obsessed with it like I would do it the same again but faster cuz um if we were in a parallel universe like she would be smarter I think you're pretty smart no but do you know what I mean like she's she needs to be smarter like if I could build the archetype more intelligent cuz

01:30:09 - 01:31:31

she's lived before um and therefore it'll be cooler and yeah I don't know man and together like I think when you are looking at your North Star it changes it's okay for it to change like I think that was something I needed to learn it's okay it's cool it's fun you got to have the right personality type yeah because then you just get depressed uh how do you want to be remembered as somebody who built an incredible community on kindness that taught something and what's a quote or a mantra

01:30:54 - 01:32:06

that you carried with you on your journey that you wished everyone listening to this would immediately Implement exactly that I think if you're trying to build something big build it with that kindness you know I'm super super generous with my knowledge with my time with product like you know I'm I'm Lebanese so we're generous by by Nature by culture and I hope that my generosity is something that I can continue to to grow and then help it rub off on other people yeah and how would you define like the Lebanese

01:31:30 - 01:32:40

culture like what what is it that you carry with you Hospitality I'm a big fedal like for me like if you come to an event you're getting fed like if you come to my house you're getting fed right and that's not not not because I like to make people fat but because I I It's My love language right and I think you when you break bread with somebody you learn a lot about them you know um and I I just I think there's so much about our culture dancing family um respect love you know I think that gave

01:32:04 - 01:33:06

me all of the attributes that I needed to build a a good company culture I love your insight into business uh your approach to being an underdog and being willing to ruffle feathers and also like a willingness and a grit to kind of like rough it out and just figure it out as you go and a lot of people in business are always trying to have the perfect plan it's it's clear to me that you're you're someone who's willing to take on the challenge have fun with it along the way and do good in the world make something

01:32:35 - 01:33:34

out of it do know I feel like super likeminded very cool I really enjoyed this conversation thank you so much for being here we certainly would love to have you back in the future and um yeah I'm excited to see what happens with this event thank you so much for having me I appreciate you yo my name is Dane Walker and I am disgusting obsessed with branding I had to figure out a way to do branding every single day so I branded myself then I started my agency rival and hired a team of branding

01:33:15 - 01:34:12

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01:33:43 - 01:33:56

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