Business Coaches EXPLAINS How Creatives Can Scale Their Business | Laura Higgins

00:00:00 - 00:00:51

is I think becoming a parent you burn the boats essentially you don't have an escape it's like this is permanent this is your responsibility deal with it business is kind of the same if you could take one thing into your sales process that's going to give you a bit more confidence and that's going to help you to convert better but also to qualify is to come in with this energy of this is a fit call this isn't a sales call this is a fit call we're going to identify if we're the right fit to work

00:00:26 - 00:01:28

with each other and I'm going to tell you if we're not Laura welcome to the pot Dane I'm so happy to be here we get to hang out again we've hung out a few times and I'm excited to have you on and yeah part of your story was you started out selling wholesale coffee beans and then transferred into social media management what happened what happened well I started my a little bit of nepotism a little bit of nepotism just a little bit of nepotism got me started my brother-in-law owns a coffee company

00:01:00 - 00:01:57

specialty coffee roaster and he was like I was a bar at the time and he was like Laura we need someone to come and sell our beans can you come and just figure out how to sell I was like sure I'll give that a go and I did no training I didn't know anything about selling and I was 21 22 maybe and so I would walk into coffee shops with a bag of beans and be like do you want to switch your coffee that you're currently making to this coffee and they'd be like no get out of here and I'd be like okay fine and like

00:01:28 - 00:02:28

so I'd kind of disappear here and I did that for a few months and then they were like you know what maybe there's like a better spot for you and they were very graciously polite very polite very graciously moved me into they were like oh this Instagram thing is kind of like maybe a bit of a big deal for businesses what year was this oh this would have been in 2015 okay so it was like very early days organic was like King it was easy to grow a following all of that stuff and so I was like sure I'll give

00:01:58 - 00:02:50

that a go and I grew their following very quickly overnight and then was like sweet okay I think I'm good at this social media thing and I had a bunch of people then start being like can you help me with this can you help me with this so I started then helping other people and started a social media agency from there that's interesting because sounds like you kind of fell into it and realized you were good at it was was there any preconceived notion that this is something that you were interested in

00:02:24 - 00:03:23

did you have a creative Knack like what what gave you confidence to dive in head first and to start producing content yeah it's a great question I for me I had gone down the traditional route of like I'm going to go to UNI I'm going to get a degree and so I was going to do journalism I loved writing I loved I had this knack for speaking so I was like cool I'll go down this journalism route and then six months in was like I don't think I'm going to get a job in this and my lecturer was like you're probably not

00:02:54 - 00:03:56

going to get a job and so I was like this sucks what am I doing why am I paying for this yeah seriously I was like I'm never coming back so I literally never went back to UNI and then I dabbled in design I dabbled in photography and my big thing and this was my I I viewed this as a negative for me I was like I'm a generalist I'm not a specialist in anything I'm good at a few of these things and at 20 something I was like what am I going to do with my life and social media happened to be

00:03:24 - 00:04:34

this really cool blend of design copywriting at that point it was a bit of like more about photography and it kind of felt like this really cool blend of all these things that I am good at and that I love and so it felt like this kind of weird serendipitous moment of like cool these are all my skill sets let's let's go you make a good point there and I think that in 2015 and thereabouts Instagram didn't have this prestigious I guess barrier to entry of Excellence that it might feel like it

00:03:59 - 00:05:13

has now yeah do you feel like Instagram Tik Tok all these social media platforms feel like they have a higher barrier to entry feel like you need to become more prepared and planned before you start versus when we were dabbling with it in 2015 yes and no what I find interesting about Instagram and Tik Tok specifically is sometimes the stuff that is too planned the stuff that is too structured and thought thought out flops and the stuff that's organic ad hoc in the moment Scrappy is the stuff that

00:04:36 - 00:05:45

takes off and goes viral and H and performs really well so I think I think strategy is so so important but I also think we need to leave a bit of room for that magic and that creativity and the scrappiness because there is so much noise there is so much so many people vying for the attention of the people that we're trying to capture the attention of as well so I think the it's this kind of balance of strategy and then also being a bit Scrappy and and experimenting as well when you say strategy how do you interpret that and

00:05:10 - 00:06:14

what should someone do to know if they have one or not great question so my big thoughts particularly with Instagram because for most of my people Instagram is is main game so I'll just speak to Instagram I think the big thing we need to know is firstly where do you want to show up secondly how frequently do you want to show up and then we need to look at okay well what needs to happen for me to show up consistently and AD add really high value and do it in a way that's sustainable long term so many people

00:05:43 - 00:06:34

they get a creative burst of energy and they're like cool I posted seven times this week and then the following week it's crickets that's not strategy that's like a roller coaster so I think it's about identifying okay how am I how do I want to show up where do I want to show up and then what needs to happen for me to do that con consistently so I think I always think strategy first consistency second I don't want to be consistent at something that's average I want to be

00:06:08 - 00:07:06

consistent at something that's strategic so if someone's in business and they're looking at okay Instagram let's just agree that's the platform of where they want to show up if someone's or let's even go back if someone's trying to decide where to show up do you have a a notion of where you might suggest someone goes for the type of business that they're operating yeah my Notions are pretty like simple with that it's like if you're targeting corporates if you're targeting big

00:06:36 - 00:07:46

business then LinkedIn makes sense right if if your demographic is professionals you want to be speaking to those people who are decision makers in an organization LinkedIn is a huge opportunity but for most creatives if your work is visual which for most creatives it is Instagram is still a huge opportunity and I think it's a it's a mistake to think that you've missed the boat with Instagram there is still opportunity to build an audience on Instagram organically so long as you have the strategy and that little spark

00:07:11 - 00:08:06

of scrappiness as well let's go into the scrappiness yes what exactly do you mean because I think people often times are trying to figure out let's just let's just zoom out from maybe the creative space and just look at the general practitioner in business yeah and we ask ourselves okay they want to start producing media and content on let's just say LinkedIn and Instagram generally speaking when it comes to scrappiness I agree it probably works better on Instagram and places like Tik

00:07:39 - 00:08:49

Tok maybe what would that look like and what should someone consider when producing content if they're like I need it to be a little scrappy I think it's looking at the format so a big mistake a lot of people make is they create in one format and then they think okay cool that that content piece is done so when you say for you mean like video or quote or yeah video Carousel quote story and then thinking about okay cool if that's the format then what's the actual content is it beautifully edited videos or is it

00:08:13 - 00:09:20

Scrappy iPhone videos is it designed up beautiful carousels or is it a screenshot of notes on your phone I think it's playing with those like taking the same content piece and trying it in a few different formats and then a few different kind of mediums within that format so that we can start to play and experiment and see okay cool that message could land if I presented it in a different format and I think particularly on Instagram I would like to see more people ditch The Need to Be Perfect

00:08:48 - 00:09:53

which we talked about this before we record like the the need to be perfect and have everything look beautiful and and feel really good I understand that and I want things to be excellent but I think we also need to come back to like how could I do this in a simple and like scrap I keep saying Scrappy but simple and really easy way what would that look like yeah because I think my take on it is if it feels like you just whipped open your phone and recorded something it feels more like a friend sent you a

00:09:20 - 00:10:13

video versus oh someone's put a production together and maybe they're trying to sell me something that's my take on it what what's your take on why the scrappy I like that word wh why does that work why does that seem to get more reach traction and engagement well one of the first things that I actually do when I work with clients is we do this thing called Shake the tree and the whole idea of shake the tree is that we go cool there's probably people in your audience who want to buy from you right

00:09:47 - 00:10:52

now but they haven't been given an invitation and so we we get really like practical and we go cool we're going to send an email we're going to do an Instagram story wherever they hang out we're just going to do a post or share some form of content that is like hey it's like hey name I'm looking for a handful of people who want to achieve this result next month would you like to join me and then that's it and it so interrupts the pattern of marketing because it's like did they just email me

00:10:19 - 00:11:24

personally is that has that just come from their Gmail account have they just they've just randomly posted this story and it doesn't look beautiful it's like they've used the Instagram fonts like gas they've used Instagram fonts they're like they're kind of making this this invitation for me it interrupts the pattern of advertising because everyone is getting advertised to all day every day and so if we can be more organic if we can be more quote unquote authentic we're going to find that people go oh

00:10:51 - 00:11:52

cool this is this is legit this is real this isn't someone trying to spam me or trick me into getting into their funnel it's it feels feels a bit more natural and organic I I agree cuz I think maybe our presupposition of what advertising is is clean professional methodical if you see someone like I don't know if you saw that crazy advert that Kanye did where he's like sitting in his car and he's recording himself for a Super Bowl ad on a vertical screen did you ever see that no I never saw that Kanye did a

00:11:22 - 00:12:21

Super Bowl ad and this is at the height of like when you know the internet aren't really fans of let's just say what he's doing and he he did like a million or $2 million Super Bowl ad and maybe more I think he maybe spent more than that you'll have to Google it but he had a vertical phone recording of him talking for a minute about the drop that he's about to do you can barely see his face it's filmed in a car and then all the other marketing ads were panoramic they had celebrities they had these wild

00:11:51 - 00:12:49

exclusive budgets so what you're seeing there is you're standing out in a crowd where everyone's trying to play a certain genre of music and then you're playing let's just say Grunge music instead of Pop yeah it stands out it gets attention people are like what's happening here and I think to be distinctive is a great method when it comes to producing media totally and and you would find this too there's so much noise online and so and that's why it is so important to build a personal brand

00:12:20 - 00:13:27

it is so important to build credibility to become known so that when people see you they stop scrolling and I think this is just one of the ways that we can do that to get attention because we're in an attention economy and the sooner we can realize that nobody cares about our stuff the sooner we realize that the the sooner we can kind of be like cool well I can experiment I can play and I can see what resonates and what lands and we can take the pressure off have fun and actually get better results as well you

00:12:54 - 00:13:47

used a word earlier which was experiment yes so at the start of someone's Journey when they're looking at doing this what are some things that they could get squared away before they start producing consistent content because you said okay strategy first consistency second uh let's just say they go okay this platform this topic and this kind of material and let's say they don't have the format figured out yet because they don't quite know what isn't isn't going to work you talk about

00:13:20 - 00:14:13

experimenting how important is that that phase and what are some things people can do to prepare for that that's a great question so provided you know who your Niche is you know what your offer is you know like what your message is what problem you're solving let's say you know all of that like because that is kind of step one you got to know who you want to serve what problem you're going to solve and what you're going to offer them right so provided you've got all of that the next

00:13:47 - 00:14:49

step is to go well how am I going to communicate this and yes we know okay cool we're going to show up on Instagram as an example I think the next step is to then go if I were to post four times a week what would some really simple pillars be if I could hit on all of the things that I need to speak to in a week what would that look like and my big things that I think about is I want to know your character I want to know a little bit about your story so what's your backstory where do how have you

00:14:18 - 00:15:18

kind of arrived here I want to know a bit about that I want to know your quirks I want to know what makes you you and so things people know about me they know I have a dog they know I love champagne they know I love coffee like things that are completely unrelated to my business people know why because I'm showing them I'm inviting them into that so that's the character piece it's your journey it's your story it's about who you are the second piece is value and that's where it's about okay how could I

00:14:47 - 00:15:51

add value how could I educate maybe it's like showing people how to do something and you do this so well in your content you are like amazing at showing value and and educating people so I think it's looking at how do I add value how do I be seen as an authority and I think a lot of people get this we understand we need to add value if we want to get customers so I think a lot of people are doing this part well what I think is missing is the character piece and then the the second or the third piece sorry

00:15:20 - 00:16:16

I'll say that again the third piece is you've got to make offers you've actually got to invite people to work with you to take the next step and the offer might be a freebie it might be hey I'm hosting a webinar come along hey I've got this PDF do you want a copy of it like it doesn't have to always be a paid thing but we have to invite people to take the next step it's so so important and then the fourth pillar is just all about connection and attention so this is where you can share memes

00:15:48 - 00:16:46

this is where you can do a viral trending reel if that if that's like aligned with your brand this is where you're really doing this top of funnel there's no call to action it is just about attention and so I think if you can have those four things you've got character you've got value you've got offers and then you've got this attention content that's like if you could do that every week that's a killer content plan to just cover all bases I love how you're unpacking this I

00:16:17 - 00:17:21

I okay I just want to go back just a little bit you talked about how you were shaking coffee beans and cafes and getting rejected and then you know diving into the media and figuring out you're pretty good at this stuff in this transition like how did you go from I guess the sales hat through to the marketing hat and did you find that you had an early knack for it or did you find that like you had to figure this out by being a practitioner so sales for me has been a long game of learning the art of selling

00:16:52 - 00:17:53

I was not naturally good at selling I had to really work at that and I think that was definitely a skills gap for me so I had to figure out how to sell I had to learn and invest in learning and so that for me in my business journey I had to figure that out Quicks smart because I realized it doesn't matter how good I am at my craft if I cannot sell and get people to buy my thing and see why I'm the best choice other people are going to get the work and I'm not going to get it because

00:17:22 - 00:18:22

I don't know how to sell so selling was a skill that I had to learn the marketing piece for me particularly in the social media space to begin with was it was so new not many people were doing it businesses had no idea what they were doing and so I kind of was in this golden age of being like cool I could kind of have the Monopoly here and and like I my other thought was I have to know more than they do and if I can just know one if I can be one step ahead of them and know just a little bit more

00:17:52 - 00:18:55

than they do I'll be fine and so that's how I started and now it's interesting because selling has become a real strong point for me uh now I've outsourced all of my sales I don't do it anymore selling I feel really comfortable with marketing I'm permanently learning because it changes so rapidly because sales the principles of sales don't really change all that much but marketing and the way in which we get attention it changes so so rapidly so it's always I'm always having to learn

00:18:24 - 00:19:25

you make a good point there because I think at the start of Journey I'll say that again you make a good point there because I think at the start of people's Journey on social media and marketing is they have a lot of self-doubt yeah they can maybe feel that that's a bad Omen what's your take on that my big thing with feeling self-doubt is I think it just shows you that a I think it shows you there's probably a bit of a skills Gap or there's a I'm a beginner energy anytime

00:18:54 - 00:19:39

someone says oh but I have imposter syndrome I'm like what if you reframed that and if it was just oh I'm a beginner I don't know how to do this yet and that's that's kind of it that's as far as I will go down the Imposter syndrome sorry I'll say this again that's as far as I'll go down the impostor syndrome route now because I'm like okay it's just telling me that there's something I don't know yet and it's telling me that okay cool I just

00:19:17 - 00:20:09

I'm a beginner at this I'm new at this and this is a new level and new territory so I think it's reframing that self-doubt and going okay what's this telling me it tells me that I'm in a new spot I'm in a new level which is exciting it also tells me that this is new and I'm a beginner and that's okay to not feel like 10 out of 10 confidence all the time and that's business right because we sign up for this [ __ ] we sign up to learn new things we've never done

00:19:42 - 00:20:32

before and I think you know at the beginning of building my agency you know I would get on a call with a client and they would say hey have you ever done marketing have you ever done XYZ and it was often times at the very beginning things I'd never done before yeah and your response typically as an agency Builder is yeah we can do that then you sell it totally then you get up the call and you're like now I have to figure out how to do it yeah I think so many agency owners I talk to have gone through that

00:20:07 - 00:21:13

experience what was your experience with that did you did you realize okay sales is a predominant thing I need to focus on and if I can just get the deal I can figure everything else out later that was exactly my my I'm not alone yes yeah totally I think I had an overemphasis in my ability to figure it out I I was like if I can my challenge was if I can sell them I I felt very confident I could figure the other stuff out my challenge was can I actually sell them because that was again that was that skills Gap

00:20:40 - 00:21:44

that I had but definitely there were like moments where I'd be like cool I've never written copy before but someone's like cool you're designing my website can you write the copy for me and I remember one client being like do you know goto skincare like Zoe Foster Blake the queen of like incredible tone of voice and I was like yeah of course I do like every every every I feel like every woman in business is like of course I know Zoe Foster Blake she's amazing and this client was like can you make me

00:21:11 - 00:22:09

sound like her and I was like can I make me sound like her I would love to make me sound like her but I was like cool yeah I reckon I could and I had so much fun because I was like I told this person I could and I I'll figure it out and it was so much fun for me and also then after that I was like okay okay actually maybe I'm maybe I'm good at this so it's just like this thing of going I'll figure it out I'll make it work and if there's something I don't know how to do I'll I'll bring people

00:21:40 - 00:22:48

in I think it it's a it's a it's a skill set people should seek to have my take is that generally speaking creative types from my experience generally more introverted and generally not the sales type individual yeah what's your take on someone who's the creative type who needs to upskill on their sales Acumen what should they do where should they go yeah well what I find interesting is a lot of my clients come to me and they're like Laura I'm converting at like 80 or

00:22:14 - 00:22:59

90% of my sales calls and that's whenever someone says that I'm like okay you're probably not charging enough if you're converting that well you're probably not charging enough so a lot of people come to me and they're like no no no sales isn't my problem it's leads I'm like what if you could charge a bit more and you needed less leads and then you needed Less sales like and you could do less work like what would that look like and people like oh my gosh that would be

00:22:37 - 00:23:31

amazing if I could do that so I think there's like a little bit of strategy around are you pricing how are you pricing and communicating your value and I think the reason people undercharge and then they're like my my sales my conversion rate's awesome I don't need to work on sales and then if we drill deeper and we're like actually you're undercharging you should get no sometimes they're like I don't want to get no I don't want someone to say no to me I don't want to charge too much and

00:23:04 - 00:24:08

then them think I'm crap or the product isn't good enough so it's like drilling deeper into well why are you charging what you're charging why are you holding back on selling why aren't you making offers most of the time it's a mindset thing and a confidence thing rather than a like it's it's fascinating because I think a lot of people have the skills but they're not getting the work because they're not actually putting themselves out there with confidence when someone's let's say

00:23:36 - 00:24:34

getting 80% close rate on their calls for you what's the damage of that let's just say well their argument is I'm paying the bills things are going okay the company's growing what what damage might they be incurring by doing that though well I think it impacts their profit because if you're closing at 80% I just think that's a perfect time to go quick cool there's demand there's people want what I'm selling I could probably charge more for it so there's that time

00:24:06 - 00:24:58

for money piece that I think people really especially creatives don't consider they don't think about what their hourly rate is because they're like well I don't know I'm making more than I did in my corporate job but are you building a business or are you building a job I think it's really important for us to Define like do you want to have a really stressful job that sucks and when you have to take time off you don't make any money like is that the job that you want or do you want to

00:24:31 - 00:25:32

build a business and we have to decide as creatives which one it is and so I think the big thing that holds people back is going is not actually knowing how much do I want to be making how much could I be making and why do I want to even be making that I think people lose lose touch with why so they're like oh if I were making more money I could work Less hours I could then pick up my kids from school like if that's a really amazing and compelling why but people don't think like that they just think I

00:25:02 - 00:26:09

have to work 9 to5 I have to grind I have to do the things and they don't think big enough for themselves I think but what do you think what do you think is the big thing I I would agree with you and I think that often times creative types are you know we talked about this earlier you said that they generally work from home they generally want to do cool projects and let's just say they they tend to not want to manage too much outside of their technical skill set yeah to come back to these

00:25:36 - 00:26:53

interactions that you're having with particularly creative types what are some other preconceived or misconceptions that they might have that could be hindering their business the big one I think I think for creatives specifically the big misconception is they think that they have to spend I I'll frame this again the big misconception I think is that people think they have to work insane hours I think there is a season to grind and do the work and I know that you've done that in your agency when

00:26:15 - 00:27:20

you're building and you're like starting out you really have to do the do the hours but there comes a point for creatives where it's like the lore of diminishing returns if you start working too many hours and if you don't do anything to re like energize yourself and recharge to feel inspired you could spend 10 hours a day working and only do two hours a day of actual meaningful work and so I think a lot of creatives chain themselves to their desk because they're like well I

00:26:47 - 00:27:40

have to keep working but some days it's good to just go you know what I'm I'm out I've got to go to the beach I've got to go get a coffee with a friend I'm gonna go to an art gallery I'm just going to go change my scenery and then I'm going to come back tomorrow and I'm going to be fresh and I'm going to try again I think we think that our creativity is this endless supply but it's actually like batteries that we need to recharge all the time and so my

00:27:14 - 00:28:14

big thing I would be saying anyone here who is in business you are creating all of the time you have to recharge your batteries and then from that place you can create your best work and you don't have to sit at your desk all day every day and like chain yourself to your desk I think that's not how we create beautiful amazing work I would agree and and I like what you said there about business is more seasonal yes I know you and I both love Jim rone you've shared a lot of quotes from him and he often talks

00:27:44 - 00:28:49

about how business comes in Seasons there's a time to work there's a time to rest and so forth um you know what are some things that people could do to prepare themselves at the very beginning of their Journey whether being a business owner or creative when they're preparing toing media to pushing to sales yeah I think the big thing we have to build it as a business so most people start a business with a like oh I'm really good at this skill and I think we have to really look at okay how do I

00:28:16 - 00:29:08

make this skill a business how do I and again for creatives how do I not just be a freelancer because we don't want to have that ongoing because that's not going to scale we're not going to be able to really build build something that works without us and so I think we need to really think about how do I build a business that runs without me and from day one you're not going to be able to necessarily achieve that from day one but if that's our intention from day one I think we're just going to

00:28:43 - 00:29:57

build a much better business model that works for us um I totally agree with you on the seasons thing I feel like for me I have been in a season of building and scaling and our business has doubled in the last 6 months our business has doubled if not tripled so we kind of like have been in this insane season and recently I just went to Europe with my husband and I stopped and I was like this is what I've been missing like I have been go go go go for so long that I forgot what it was actually like to go

00:29:20 - 00:30:23

oh like this is what normal people do like they occasionally take time off and they go and they do vacations and they have fun and they just be and like I'm like reading novels and like they're not business books and it's like for me that's like how I recharge my soul but now coming home I'm like I don't want to be back in that grind Zone I don't want to be back in that I have to produce at all times I my season now is I'm like what would it look like if it were easy

00:29:52 - 00:30:55

what would it look like if it were fun what would it look like if it was simple and so now I'm like subtracting wherever I can I'm like what can I say no to what can I get rid of I've only gotten to that season now through a season of really sewing of really putting in the work of building the systems building the team doing all of that stuff so I agree that I think it comes in seasons and the tricky part is knowing when you have to leave a season behind and when you have to step into the new I would

00:30:23 - 00:31:13

agree with you you know recently cam myself and the the team we've been traveling we've been speaking we've been launching the book and creating courses and you know this past two weeks I've slowed down a little bit which is very unusual for me it's unusual for me to come in at 9:30 haven't taken the kids to school haven't had breakfast with the family when it's been go go go for 5 years and I think you're right it's sometimes the power of no the power of

00:30:48 - 00:32:08

deleg the power of delegations is powerful yeah one of the other quotes that you shared from Jim ran was if you're not willing to risk the unusual you will have to settle for the ordinary yeah what does that mean to you I I really believe that every person has a unique calling like something that they are here to do and I think if we're not careful we can we can kind of miss it and we can play it safe we can play small we can let outside circumstances that we have no control over like the Instagram

00:31:30 - 00:32:34

algorithm or the economy or the weather like all these things we have zero control over we can let those things dictate how we show up the decisions that we make we can make decisions from a place of scarcity of fear of what will other people think if I do something that's a bit different and I think those are the things that are going to keep you in the ordinary in the the safe place quote unquote safe because there's always a risk in staying where you are but they're going to keep you in that

00:32:01 - 00:32:58

spot where if in your like bones you know I want to go after something extraordinary something epic something bigger than I've seen done before you're going to have to make some pretty big bold moves and too many people are staying stuck because they're not making the big bold moves and then they're complaining about not getting the big amazing outcomes and it's cuz they're not doing the big bold moves I think that's the like fear thing keeping people stuck nail on the head and I

00:32:31 - 00:33:34

would agree with you and I think this is why I I like to look at business as Sprints and this is why we talk about the 90 days yeah and I'm taking a bit of I'm slowing down a little bit because I know we're about to go for another big sprint and you've gravitated towards the creative Community yes do you see that there's a common Trend or Trope within the design Community to approach things in a certain way and just to tie this back to Jim he talks about about how you know life is seasonal and it's difficult

00:33:02 - 00:34:09

to have balance all the time sometimes you just got to put on the hat and grind it out completely agree why are you attracted to the creative type community and what's your predominant message in the beginning phases where they have to grind oh I find the the idea of balance really it's never resonated with me because I've kind of felt like how does anyone acheve like does anyone ever achieve balance like life is life there's going to be chaos a little bit of chaos there's going to be a little

00:33:35 - 00:34:43

bit of like messy stuff if we're pursuing this perfect calm Zen State at all times I just think we're going to be disappointed so a better use of our energy is to go what am I going to do with where I'm at right now and the season that I'm in I'm all about doing your reps I don't think I think again a lot of people want the results without doing the Reps and that is the best way to burn yourself out it's also the best way to ruin your reputation because if you haven't done the Reps and if you're

00:34:09 - 00:35:10

not actually qualified and like really competent at what you do you're going to burn Bridges everywhere you go because you're going to be saying you can do stuff that you actually can't so there's this element of I think we have to really do the Reps we have to do the work we have to recognize and like my big thing in business is I'm always saying to people this is freaking hard and so that when people start their businesses they're not shocked because I remember when I started my business I was like wait why

00:34:39 - 00:35:42

is this so hard why is no one told me this would be so hard so I'm like this is going to be hard just FYI Public Service Announcement this is going to be really difficult and like you will cry and you will you will really you'll work so freaking hard but it will be worth it and I think when we can normalize that we can set really clear expectations too many creatives get so disappointed because they're like I thought I could just design stuff what I have to like what I have to do admin I have to sell I

00:35:11 - 00:36:06

have to deal with clients I didn't have to do that before I had an account manager who did that I didn't have to do that it's like welcome to business everything everything is your responsibility I saw this meme the other day it was you know the scene from Lion King where it's muasa and Simba and it's like he's looking out onto the kingom over the kingdom and it's like everything the light touches will be yours one day and it's like everything the light touches is your

00:35:39 - 00:36:41

responsibility it's like as a business owner it's like yes everything the light touches is your responsibility and it's kind of like when people it's like when people join the club it's like you can kind of be like welcome this is this is going to be fun it's going to be really hard and but it will be worth it yeah one of my favorite quotes is from Elon Musk he says that building a business is like chewing on glass and staring into the abyss yes well and you're a parent so I

00:36:09 - 00:37:02

feel like any anyone I speak to who becomes a parent I don't have kids but anyone I speak to who becomes a parent is like this is gnarly like this is this is intense and like you know you have your the whole pregnancy you have the whole pregnancy to kind of be like cool this is going to be lovely and I'm glowing and it's lovely and wonderful and I look amazing and how beautiful and I'm designing the nursery and then the baby comes and you've got no sleep you're like am I going to kill what if

00:36:36 - 00:37:36

what if the baby like how am I not going to break the baby like I think it's that idea too of like no one knows how to prepare for Parenthood and I wonder if it's the same in business where people are like I don't know how to prepare for this you can't like I I think becoming a parent you know everyone in your family in Social Circles tries to prepare you uh nothing really prepares you because when you you know when I held my daughter harow for the first time I wept for like a week I was like my little

00:37:06 - 00:38:00

angel she's so fragile and then when I had my boy Joey it was different energy I was like yeah it's my air you know it was just it was it was a total surge of masculinity and I think you know when it comes to like just to put a cap on this I think becoming a parent it gives you another gear because what happens is like the light on the kingdom analogy that you sh sh everything's your responsibility you know you got to feed them cloth them bathe them make sure they stay alive take them to the

00:37:33 - 00:38:40

hospital if they need to go and it gives you another gear where you don't have you burn the boats essentially you don't have you don't have an escape you it's like this is permanent this is your responsibility deal with it I think business is kind of the same in a sense where if you truly want to build a business it's you're bad out of hell and you got to give it everything you have to get enough cash flow to keep that thing alive yeah right and you know for you when you're when you're working with

00:38:07 - 00:39:18

these creative types what's the first thing that you notice that makes them a good fit for you because I would imagine you're trying to vet them out of do they have what it takes yeah it's really interesting we I have a strict no [ __ ] policy um when you Agy you you do learn very quickly okay what are the red flags what are the red flags in the clients and so we have a very like we're filtering for for cultural fit really hard cuz I want to make sure that they're a good fit for

00:38:43 - 00:39:37

our community and I'm going to be spending a lot of time with these people and I I'm so thankful and grateful that the people that I get to work with are insanely generous they're really driven they're go-getters they're like ambitious and it's amazing so those I've realized those are the criteria for me they've got to be generous they've got to be driven they've got to be ambitious and the other stuff we can we can figure out you've got to be good at what you do

00:39:10 - 00:40:16

as well I think that's that's kind of a given but what's interesting about creative types is that often they underplay how good they are or what they do and so it's a it I'm actually working with them on going hey you're really really good at what you do we just need more people to know about what you do and so that's the big thing that I'm working on them with but I think in terms of that's the cultural criteria in terms of other criteria we just want them to be to run a creative business

00:39:43 - 00:40:43

and to be ready to grow I think those the big the big things and then how do you identify the [ __ ] we actually do a filtering call now so we do an application a filtering call and Lola my head of onboarding she has veto so she'll be like they were kind of distracted on the call or they like they didn't answer the questions or they' answer the questions with one-word answers and so they no and the whole thing is we don't we're like we don't work with everyone and I think if if you

00:40:13 - 00:41:10

could take one thing into your sales process that's going to give you a bit more confidence and that's going to help you to convert better but also to qualify is to come in with this energy of this is a fit call this isn't a sales call this is a fit call we're going to identify if we're the right fit to work with each other and I'm going to tell you if we're not and when we come at selling from that perspective of like there's so much Integrity there is also you have full permission to be like Hey

00:40:41 - 00:41:36

listen like 5 minutes into the call you could go this isn't the right fit like here's who I reckon you should talk to and if they're a dick you can send them to someone you don't like but other than that it's like hey here's who you should talk to and like wish you all the best so like we are just so ruthless with being like this is a fit call and I think anyone in sales if they can adopt that energy of like kind of like I'm auditioning them it's going to help your

00:41:09 - 00:42:02

sales because they're going to be like I want to work with Dane like if why can't Dane why I want him to work with me can he I want him to want to work with me and then it's a totally different Dynamic that's interesting because I think it it adds a different Dynamic when maybe they are assuming they're just trying to sell me and then you say maybe we're not a good fit yeah then they almost end up in a position where they're trying to sell you on why they're a good fit right yeah I'm sure

00:41:35 - 00:42:36

it's like a manipulative dating tactic or something like that play yeah treat them me and keep them ke right exactly exactly so where did the confidence to say no come from did something happen for you to go all right I got to start saying No this is getting out of hand oh my gosh yeah can I tell it a a red flag okay yeah I had I had some of the worst client experiences this was years ago this was at the beginning of Co everything was stressful and life was just chaos and no everyone was in that

00:42:05 - 00:43:12

Fierce spot at the beginning of Co and I had two backto back like the worst clients like I have ever had and paint a picture for me okay I had one client call me and I actually think afterwards I think he had bipolar because he called me and he he went off his head and was like swearing at me and because he wanted to do something outside of scope and I said Hey listen totally happy to do it but it's going to cost you it's going to cost yeah and I was never good at at charging for things outside of scope but

00:42:40 - 00:43:45

I was like you know what I'm going to charge for this and he just went went off and then but then within 5 minutes he called me back and was like very calm and very like chill and like Hey listen I just want to have a conversation I love working with you it's really been great working with you I would love to continue if we can I'm happy to pay whatever and I was like red flag like instantly like okay this is not this is not it so that was a moment where I was like okay I what what will I tolerate

00:43:11 - 00:44:19

and someone calling me and swearing at me I won't I won't tolerate um it kind of seems basic but that's my it's a good policy it's a good policy but I just I think I just had a few of those clients where I realized okay I can't the interesting thing for me was me individually I had struggled with people pleasing so much that I would be okay with dealing with people being rude or like demanding I could kind of figure it out because I'd be like oh I'll just sort it out but once I had a team and

00:43:44 - 00:44:51

the team were going oh man I like this this client's really hard to deal with and they keep pushing the boundaries and they're being really really intense once I had a team I realized H I have to put on on kind of my big girl pants and and say something now so it's this interesting thing where sometimes when it's we can want to defend others instead of Defending ourselves so I had to learn first by defending others and now I'm really like 90% of the time I'm like okay cool this is a boundary for me

00:44:19 - 00:45:14

and I'm you cannot cross that occasionally the people pleaser still rears its ugly head but that's something that I'm like permanently working on I think you know innately creative types want to or seek acceptance and validation they they want to know that their stuff is good and I I face that as well where a client would be aggressive with me when I was a freelancer and I would just go okay well I got to pay the bills and I can kind of deal with this no big deal but then you have a team and

00:44:47 - 00:45:50

now your team are like totally bugged out by how a client spoke to them yeah now you have to put on your cap and go okay I got to go be confrontational potentially I got to go settle this and put this fire out how how can you better navigate that or prepare yourself to kind of become accustomed with this kind of um conversations or these kind of conversations in business I think the annoying answer is you can only learn by doing and I had a conversation with a friend recently where this this people pleasing thing

00:45:21 - 00:46:19

came up again for me where I was like oh this client wants to do this or this thing happened and I went into this people pleas a mode and I knew I had to have a conversation with this client and a friend of mine was like Laura it's just a skill and you're just have to learn the skill of having tough conversations and so I'm permanently learning the skill I think actually a book that helped me a bunch is radical cander have you read no I never heard put it in the links it's really really

00:45:50 - 00:46:59

good but it's all about how do I challenge directly and Care personally challenge directly care person what does that what does that mean exactly so most of the time people can be obnoxious they can challenge directly and not really care about the person they're talking to and so it becomes they she calls it obnoxious aggression so that's one part or you can care personally but challenge not challenge directly so passive aggressive and she calls that manipulative insincerity and that's where it's like really passive

00:46:25 - 00:47:22

aggressive think like Post-it notes being like don't don't do that or slack messages that are like blast to everyone but everyone knows who you're talking about kind of thing that's one piece and then the other side is where you care personally but you never challenge directly and she calls it ruinous empathy and that is the camp that I would hang out with I would care so deeply for my clients for my team but I would never challenge directly and it didn't serve me because I would get

00:46:53 - 00:47:53

resentful I would I wasn't sleeping I was like really struggling to be upfront with people um and it doesn't help them because they don't get to grow they don't get to improve they don't people can generally sense if you're like annoyed at them so it really doesn't help them so now I've like my goal is to get into the spot where I challenge directly and I care personally about them and how the feedback is going to impact them as well I think that's important too because these are the

00:47:24 - 00:48:38

moments in business where we have to level up we have to really focus Inward and go I have to become greater at this was there ever a moment in your business where you were faced with an obstacle that was incredibly painful yeah and you had to crawl yourself out of a situation that you weren't quite prepared for but you found a way yes so at the beginning of Co like beginning of 2020 I well I had had a dream for a long time to create a course and so now what I do is like that's my whole business is

00:48:00 - 00:49:08

I have a course and a coaching program but I had this dream to create this course and I kept procrastinating it kept putting it off and then Co happened and I was I had a plan to shoot this new course and you know how much like work goes into shooting a course I had all the scripts I had everything ready and lock like the whole country went into lockdown and and no the country went into lockdown at midnight that night so I had one day to film this whole course and I prior to this I had lost half of

00:48:34 - 00:49:40

my clients overnight I worked with people in like gyms hair salons people in like Beauty and so they were like my business is going to be closed I have no idea for how long I need to pause everything so I lost 50% of my income literally overnight and was like oh my goodness I need to figure out how to I had full-time staff I had to figure out how to pay the bills so I was like cool well I'm going to film this course and I'm going to figure it out on the day we were going to film the course the venue where we were

00:49:07 - 00:49:59

filming it called me at like 6:00 a.m. they're like you can't come in because the world's gone crazy and we're going into lockdown tonight you cannot come in and I was like yeah I'm coming so put the key in the letter box you don't have to see me you because they were worried about like getting germs and which was totally fair and I was like I put the key in the letter box I'm coming to get it and they it was this restaurant we were filming at this beautiful restaurant and I was like I'm coming to

00:49:34 - 00:50:47

get it I'm going to let myself into the restaurant and I'll drop the key back at the end of the day we filmed from 700 a.m. till midnight I was like we have to get this course done today because we all go into lockdown tomorrow and it was the craziest like the craziest 24 hours at the end of the day we filmed everything we got it done launched the course and it completely changed my entire business but more importantly than that it was so helpful for so many businesses in Co who were like oh my goodness I don't know how to

00:50:10 - 00:51:19

Market my business I need to figure out a way to Market myself online and so that is something that I'm so proud of it changed the game for me but I think it also really helped a bunch of small business owners who were struggling at that time too man talk about the 11th Hour exactly that's like a movie set that's crazy so so what what made you just blatantly tell them no like where did that come from well what was interesting was we had it's so funny we had hired all this gear so this was we were shooting in

00:50:44 - 00:51:46

Newcastle we'd hired all this gear from Sydney but like the videographer had hired this red camera like the in most insane they shoot movies on this camera he'd hired all this gear and he was like I can't you know I'm shooting today like we have to shoot today and I was like well he's got his whole crew coming we're all socially distanced and no one knew what that meant and we're like we're all we're all here we have to do it and so I just there was like that

00:51:15 - 00:52:23

gritty scrappiness that I was like my business won't survive if I don't do this and I've got to figure it out and I think any Next Level I've had in my business there's been a a really real scrappiness and a need to be gritty right before we've made a big leap and so if you're listening to this and you're like I'm in a season where it feels like a grind it feels like I have to be so like I have to have grit I have to be determined I've just got to push through often that means you're just on

00:51:49 - 00:52:53

the cusp of a new level and it's exciting it's scary but I hope that anyone listening to this would feel the like encouragement and momentum to just keep going where did the strength come from though I I know I'm peeling back the the layers on the onion here but like okay in that moment where nothing's really going according to plan everything's going sideways the planet's closing down you know in those moments of darkness and doubt where someone's really like I don't know if I can do this do you have

00:52:20 - 00:53:40

a mantra or like a like a a belief system that you dive into in those moments that that allow you to push through yeah I mean it depends on how deep we want to go but I I have a faith where I'm like it this will work out and I think for me I sure I was like praying a lot being like Oh my gosh what is going to happen so I think for me I've just had this thing of all right I have to have more faith than fear and so I think that has been the thing that has marked my business journey is this dance

00:53:02 - 00:54:19

of I'm figuring it out as I go it's not going to be perfect it's going to be messy and maybe because I started my business at 23 and I had this Blissful ignorance I was like so naive I had no idea and so I think that that in a way has served me because I've kind of just charged through roadblocks because I'm like well this is what this is what we do we have to figure it out so I think the the faith and the belief that everything will work together for good I think that that has been the the

00:53:40 - 00:54:52

undercurrent for me is just I really believe that the best outcome will happen well said goosebumps how how do you see creativity because in the world where you know you can look at marketing you can look at branding advertising content creation you have a lot of business type- minded people you have a lot of creative minded people what's your take on it and and how can people kind of learn from both sides here okay I feel like and I don't know if you do you have you done your anagram before no what's that okay it's this

00:54:17 - 00:55:37

personality typing system oh like it Briggs meire kind of thing yeah yeah exactly so I am a particular type on the anagram which means that I can lean into being very ambitious very driven very entrepreneurial but then the flip side is I have a tortured artist side which annoys me so much because I I'm like the entrepreneurial side is like do it at like ship it at 80% get it done push through and then the tortured artist is like does anybody like me and so it's this dance of these two it feels like a split person ality

00:54:57 - 00:55:57

sometimes of like I want to create beautiful stuff and I want it to be excellent and I want to live in the woods and right and just create stuff and it' be beautiful and you know I could live off the land I don't know if I could but like you have this this side of you and then the other side is like but I want to be the best and I want to like drive and get it done and blah and so I think for me anyway the dance is those two and it's this dualism that I have I've had to work with with

00:55:27 - 00:56:39

of like and and actually someone who I think does this really well is Taylor Swift cuz she has this she has to have an insane work ethic she is one of the most her output is just insane I would love to see what a day in the life of Taylor Swift looks like what does her ideal week look like I don't even know but she has this output that is so wild she has this entrepreneurial streak she she is just the most insane businesswoman ever and then she also has this Artistry this beautiful depth this emotion and she

00:56:03 - 00:57:10

writes and she thinks deeply and she reads all these book like she she has this Artistry and this ambition and those two things can conflict and so I think for me I view creativity as this dance between well creativity and business I view it as this dance between Artistry and ambition but I don't know how do you do you struggle with that you're kind of speaking my language I feel like I am the tortured Artist as well as the psychopathic entrepreneur because there's a voice in my head that's just

00:56:37 - 00:57:46

like do it now immediately urgently and the other part which is hey let's go like chill on a beach somewhere and like take out time with this you know and it feels like there's two conflicting voices do you think this is something that's inate in people or do you think that this is a duality that people could start to develop in themselves I think well I don't know part of me thinks you can learn I think you can learn the skill of doing like I think you can kind of learn to become a doer you can put structures

00:57:11 - 00:58:30

in place you can if you struggle with Focus if you struggle with proc procrastination I think you can gamify things and you can figure out how to do stuff I think that's life we have to there is an element where we have to become doers the Artistry side I think is a little harder to teach so I find teaching the skill of the entrepreneurial skills easier than the skill of how how do you create beautiful stuff and how do you how do you view the world and how do you share your story and how do you take what you feel and

00:57:51 - 00:58:58

turn it into something that people will other people will feel and so I think think entrepreneurial the entrepreneurial side is easier to learn than the Artistry side okay so let's talk about the Artistry side for entrepreneurs that have a tendency to go I'm not good at this stuff I'm just going to go delegate it yeah why is creativity an important thing that people in business must understand well it's this weird I actually believe that every single person is creative every person has a

00:58:25 - 00:59:28

creative streak some just have more creativity than others right or they tap into it more so I don't think it's this thing of oh I'm not a creative I'm not in the creative camp for sure there are like certain sensibilities and certain like personality types that lend themselves more to creativity but I think if you're a business owner you've created something you're a Creator and the sooner particularly if you want to Market your business the sooner you can come to terms with the fact that there

00:58:56 - 01:00:08

is an element of creating that must be done then the sooner you can actually get the results from your marketing from your content all of those things so I think it's it's selling ourselves short if we say I'm only this I'm only the entrepreneurial type A personality I think most entrepreneurs that I know are insanely creative it might just be that they don't know how to channel that into something useful and in that case where they are beginning to channel it and beginning to dive into it what can

00:59:32 - 01:00:38

creativity bring to a business well I think if we look at it through a marketing lens I like if you've forget about brand for a second brand is like a whole thing of if if you don't have a brand I don't think you really have a business in 20124 because it's like people must connect with your brand and a big piece of the brand is the visual and so that's super super important that we have that right and so brand is a part that I think of course you need creativity with that of course

01:00:09 - 01:01:25

but if we think about the day-to-day stuff in your business the the way you communicate visually verbally the way you communicate even with your clients or even internally with your team there has to be an element of creativity in how we do that and I think if we don't figure out how to become our most the most creative versions of ourselves we're going to our businesses are going to suffer the other thing is it doesn't mean that you have to become a wizard at Adobe Illustrator it doesn't mean that you have to do all

01:00:46 - 01:01:45

the things I think it's just every day we're creating we're creating impact we're creating a vision for our businesses it doesn't mean that you have to be in all of the execution really well said and on the flip side if we go to the creative types that need to learn business from what you were speaking about before it sounds like sales Acumen is a great place to start trying to figure out how to negotiate how to sell how to pitch and one thing you mentioned earlier which was typically creatives undervalue their

01:01:17 - 01:02:22

value and what they can bring to the table there's a controversial quote that I like from Grant Cardone and you know that terminology under promise overd deliver yeah he has a quote where he says overpromise then overd deliver oh I like that and I like the play of words because what he's saying is you know present the best possible argument don't under sell yourself yeah sell the best version of yourself then find a way to go above and beyond that which you promised yeah but I I feel like you are

01:01:48 - 01:03:04

amazing at figuring out how to solve an expensive problem and I think you communicate that so well of like how do we actually connect what we're selling to a an expensive problem a problem that costs them and then we can present an expensive a reassuringly expensive solution and I love that idea of going okay this is this is a pretty Grand big idea and I I trust that I've got the I've got the skills to actually deliver on the idea that I'm selling so for people selling creatives let's just say

01:02:27 - 01:03:32

you know content creators photographers videographers graphic designers logo designers web developers you name it for these characters how can they best build a case when selling creative to a business-minded person in the sense when the business-minded person says what's the ROI of having a better logo a better package design a better website cuz this is where it becomes a hard metric to gauge which is what is the ROI of creative yeah how do you support creative in building a case for themselves selling their services to a

01:03:00 - 01:04:08

business owner my big thing is I like to always bring it back to the cost of inaction so I always like to think about it like okay cool well if you don't have a good brand and if you wait another six months or another 12 months what's it going to cost you and if you can figure out the numbers of that with them then all of a sudden you're like cool this is going to cost you 100 Grand in sales does spending 10 grand 5 grand on branding with me feel reasonable and then it's like a no-brainer yes of course it does

01:03:34 - 01:04:50

so I think if we can tie it back to the cost of inaction the big thing I'm seeing in selling at the moment for creatives is a lot of people are saying this sounds awesome let's Circle back they're feeling a little bit shaky about investing money and so we have to come back to why is now the best time to move forward and what is it going to cost you what is waiting costing you an example will be recently we had someone have a sales call with us she had had a call with me nine months ago and in that N9

01:04:12 - 01:05:21

months like she should have joined she should have joined and like she knows she should have joined so she said no when I had a conversation with her and she came back to us and was like listen I think I need to join and my my salesperson was like where's your Revenue at now her revenue is so much lower now than it was N9 months ago when she was afraid of jumping in and it's not about me and my program but it's about the cost of inaction and I think that's a perfect example of someone who waited because they wanted

01:04:47 - 01:05:52

to have their ducks in a row because they were like oh maybe it's just not the right time yet and it's human nature to kind of like want to put things off a little bit or want to wait or want to look around shop around for a bit but the cost of inaction is so much greater than the cost of going ahead and the investment of going ahead so it's really interesting because we were having a completely different conversation with her she was not not that she was in the same spot she was in a worse spot and

01:05:18 - 01:06:27

that to me is like that's why we have to sell to the what is it costing you to not move forward now what's the cost of inaction you make a good point there and I think oftentimes creatives hear that we'll Circle back to this later the econom is not doing great yada yada what is pieces of that conversation that people can take away with this and use what are some what are some reframes or some tools that a creative can say to a client in that situation so at the top of every call I will say something like

01:05:53 - 01:06:39

hey so today we're going to talk about and this is like post we've already had a little fit call a 15 minute fit call then we're going into a longer sales call so we know that they're ready now they've said that the investment is fine they're ready they for all intents and purposes they're like this should pretty much be them signing they've given you buying signals like this is a fit for me I want to do this I'm at the revenue I need to be I I understand this is a The

01:06:16 - 01:07:21

Next Step at the top of the call I will say hey we've identified that you're a good fit and so this call we're going to just talk about what your goals are what the big things are like the roadblocks that are getting in your way and then at the end of the call if we're the right fit I'm going to make an invitation for you to join to work with me whatever that next step is my only ask of you is at that point give me a really clear yes or a really clear no and so immediately it's like and then

01:06:49 - 01:07:40

I'll say cool are you comfortable with saying no and they're like yeah of course I'm comfortable with saying no cool are you comfortable with saying yes yeah I am and so then immediately we've got it right at the top of the call hey like you said that you were comfortable saying no awesome you also said you're comfortable saying yes so I need a clear yes or no we're not doing the dance of following up we're not doing the dance of let's talk about it later let's do

01:07:14 - 01:08:15

three months it's like no you said it was a now thing and you said you're comfortable moving forward if it feels like the right fit so let's talk about what's happening and so it gives gives us this expectation at the start of the call that's like all I need to know is that you'll give me a really clear yes if it feels right and a really clear no either is fine and so immediately they're like the goal of the call is for them to make a decision I want them to leave having made a decision I don't

01:07:44 - 01:08:56

want to go into followup email land let's Circle back and whatever I don't want to go into that land so it's like yes or no let's let's do it or let's not either either is fine and giving them the permission I agree with you wholeheartedly yeah if if someone were to rebuttal and say that feels too gnarly too much like I'm applying pressure to the client and I'm uncomfortable with doing that yeah what would be your response I think for me I would go cool what needs to happen for you to

01:08:20 - 01:09:14

feel like sounds like you need a bit more information why don't we have a conversation about what information you need to feel comfortable because what happens in that spot generally is they say I'll go away and think about it and I'm like if people really want to go away and think about I'm not going to put the screws to them and be like you must say yes like I'm not going to do that but I think they're far more and Alex hosi talks about this why not troubleshoot your concerns with the

01:08:47 - 01:09:44

source of information like on the call why not do that on the call with me while I'm the one who's going to answer all your questions so why not do that together and I think also when the framing is this is a fit call this isn't a sales call this is a are we the right fit to work together so I think if you can then open it up to okay cool and like being curious going cool well what what is your decision-making criteria what would make you feel comfortable and then already they're telling you I need

01:09:16 - 01:10:22

to talk to my other I need to talk to my CEO okay cool well let's te up a time for them to be on the call too and so you're actually getting the objections before you get them on the back end of the call yeah because you're on the sales call on that spot and Jordan bford talks about this when you're in a negotiation with a prospect for a sale yeah he has this terminology which he calls the hot button so you're on the call for let's say an hour and you're going back and forth building a

01:09:49 - 01:10:52

case of potentially why you're a good fit in that process their barrier and their guard is coming down yeah and he has this metaphor that he calls the hot button and he's like you need to hit the hot button you need to ask the difficult question particularly when a creative is talking to a business individual a business individual responds really well when they run a company and someone kind of calls them out because it's like oh this is someone who not only can provide creative services for me this is an individual

01:10:21 - 01:11:20

who can speak my language and understands how severe my challenge is and if if you can roll out the red carpet and flush out their actual objections and talk about them thoroughly on the call yeah you're going to have a greater chance of bringing that barrier down and then like you said anchoring them to a yes or no and hit the hot button I don't care if it's a no just tell me for sure one of my friends her name is Vanessa horn she talks about collecting objections like tennis balls

01:10:50 - 01:11:46

everything they everything they say that's an objection you collect it and you just sit it on your tennis record and everything throughout the conversation you highlight okay that's an objection oh they have a fear oh they've been burned before all of those things that are totally valid feelings and objections you bundle those up and you go cool I know I know all the objections I know the the challenges and the fears that you have around investing and then when it comes time to pitch

01:11:18 - 01:12:22

you're like cool you can position the offer so that it handles every part of those objections as well that's a really good analogy and I think it's it's a good point because you have to touch on every every finite detail of their their challenge for them to start to lean toward a yes for sure and I mean the other thing is if you have to then go away and put a quote together your your version of can we get a yes or no on the call might be hey if it feels like yes you're happy with this it feels like

01:11:50 - 01:12:51

it's going to be a good fit the next step might be to book another call and to go through the proposal together so it doesn't have to be yes take my money on the call it can just be whatever the next step in your process is it doesn't have to be like give me your credit card Vibes I also like how you use humor now there's a quote that you shared because in your sales process I know you use a lot of humor and I think humor can lighten a mood when you're talking about something quite serious with the

01:12:20 - 01:13:14

Prospect and if you can make him laugh a little bit it really helps yeah this quote that you shared which is not sure what's longer a microwave minute or watching a video while someone else is holding the phone insisting it's hilarious yes I hate those moments when you're like seriously you have to watch this it's really funny and you're like I'm not laughing and then it doesn't load and then they're like fumbling around being like don't worry it is funny you're going to laugh and you're

01:12:47 - 01:13:59

like I already hate [Laughter] this I hate this but that that humor piece is one of the content pillars it's the attention piece okay and it's just that like it takes 2 seconds you find a meme that is funny and you share it and it's people it's weird but it goes a long way cuz people are like they're relatable oh they're they're funny they they get me and they especially if it relates to your Niche I did this series recently where I was like I called it scope keep scope creep is creepy and it

01:13:22 - 01:14:25

was just a bunch of gifts about and like instances where creatives experienced scope creep with clients and the amount of people that shared it and saved it and commented was like insane and like way more than the my value beautiful content it was like Scrappy and like there's no call to action there's nothing that I'm selling it's just this is relatable and it connects with people yeah if you scroll right to the bottom of my Instagram feed you can see a video of me dancing in a gorilla suit really

01:13:54 - 01:15:05

doing marketing for well gym I think humor is just a great way to get people to pay attention I would agree with you okay so you strike me as someone who's quite as you said before the tortured the tortured artists mixed with the Blazing entrepreneur where did this passion stem from like were you always like this is it because you grew up in Townsville cuz we had Townville sorry Newcastle let me let me rephrase that anyone from Newcastle is like sorry I [ __ ] that up let me okay let me hit that again

01:14:29 - 01:15:28

okay I ruined that [ __ ] no that's perfect keep it's perfect keep it in okay I'm going red now okay let me just take it from the top Laura you strike me as someone who's quite you know tenacious as a blazing entrepreneur as well as someone who is that tortured artist character where did this originate from because I know you grew up in Newcastle and we had Britney Saunders on the podcast here last week and she grew up in Newcastle is it a Newcastle thing like where did this energy come

01:14:59 - 01:16:20

from I don't know I can't speak to Brit she's she's an absolute boss I love I love what she does um but my my gut instinct is a deep need to I don't know how I'm going to phrase this I think I have a deep and flawed need to achieve which is so bad did you have siblings yes okay I'm the middle child of five and so all of us are really high Achievers they're just our whole family is creative our whole family is like really driven really ambitious so I think for me there was a

01:15:42 - 01:16:58

little bit of like I don't know if it's nature or nurture just like being in a family of high Achievers and like even in school I was the person who was like always doing the creative subjects but I had to win I think a serious competitive Streaker around like I must win um so I don't really know where that has come from I think it's just a probably probably some the the positive side would be like okay cool I really enjoy what I do I'm a very hard worker and maybe the flip side of that is like

01:16:20 - 01:17:30

I don't really know how to chill out I've got like zero chill and also so I have a deep need to be accepted and to have people like me and part of that is like working hard so and also like that that has shown up for me in my business where I've been like oh actually this deep need to be accepted and liked is really really not helpful so there's there's the flip side of of both how has it helped you and how has it hindered you I think how it how it's helped me is I can walk into a room and be like

01:16:54 - 01:17:52

people will gen my belief is and it probably isn't true but my belief is people will generally like me like I'm just kind of I'm like cool that's a I I'm pretty likable I think the flip side is if people don't like me I like Spiral like why don't they like me why don't they like me what's wrong with me what did I do what did I do wrong yeah so I think that's the like the Achilles heel and I'm hoping that as I get older and as I do more therapy that's going to get

01:17:24 - 01:18:30

better I don't I don't know I feel like maybe I'm I'm comfy on this couch and now it's like a therapy SST at this point yeah well I think you you're touching on a good point there and I you know Gary ve said something recently that I wish I said which was you know if people are let's just say commenting on your on your media and you get hate and you get love and he says that I like to not subscribe to the love or the hate right because if we subscribe to the love then

01:17:57 - 01:19:03

the hate hurts us but if we don't describe to e sorry if we don't subscribe to either it's just noise yeah and then you just focus on your craft some of us however we like the love and we like the hate and I think you know for me I'm an individual where I I get confrontation and I'm like okay I must be doing something right if I've pissed this person off this much how how how how have you started to adapt to to both sides of this so so I my husband is probably a bit like you and that he's

01:18:29 - 01:19:37

like like it's engagement who cares they're randoms on the internet but for me I'm like oh my gosh like Stuart 125 thinks that like my hair looks bad and it's like why do I care what Stuart 125 thinks I I don't care what Stuart 125 thinks yeah F Stuart 125 Stewart 125 what kind of Instagram is that sucks but I think the the thing and I love what Gary ve says of like don't subscribe to any of it I think that's really healthy because what happens for me and I'm not

01:19:03 - 01:20:12

sure if it happens for others but I could get 10 amazing comments and one negative and the negative will stick out to me and the negative will be the thing that I'm like oh that what is that and so that is the thing where I I feel like just going the Applause and the booze neither of them mean anything because it's not actually why I'm doing it and I think that maybe that's a healthier way to approach particularly like social media as you grow and as your platform grows and you have a huge following I

01:19:36 - 01:20:46

imagine it's like you get a lot of mixed opinions on your stuff and it's for me now I do get that I get also get marriage proposals quite frequently in the dance I haven't had one of those yet you haven't had one of those oh my gosh proposing you with text and the DMS yeah they do I've had someone say to me would you like a sugar daddy whoa yeah and I was like H would I I don't know yeah but you get a lot of love and you get you get a lot of hate too yeah I haven't had any sugar MERS yet I don't

01:20:14 - 01:21:27

want to invite any that's wild like how do you even respond to that I've also had someone I've had a few people I posted this one ad where I was barefoot in the amount of foot fetish people that commented was really out of proportion I was like what is going on with our targeting guys this these ads must be taken down because I've got foot fetish people commenting so there's that we love that it's attention you know like what can I say yeah F in my attention content pillar so it's fine it's fine okay so

01:20:50 - 01:21:42

then this is digital attention I know you're starting to transition into Live Events hopefully no one's proposed to you yet or no you know I don't imagine you're showing up barefoot in that situation when it comes to the Live Events what's been your experience with the crowd response versus digital right because digital people are kind of in an echo chamber they're kind of by themselves at their keyboard or whatever but in a live event you're in a group setting there's a lot of people around

01:21:16 - 01:22:28

you how have you found it to transition from purely digital to now doing these Live Events the live events are so fun for me because I am an extrovert running an online business so for me it's like oh my gosh I get to host a party like what this is amazing and the business pays for it what that's so fun for me so for me it's it's a whole lot of fun I think the energy of like touching and like being in the room with people is so different to online I love online because I think it brings people all over the world

01:21:52 - 01:23:05

together but I there's something about being in the room with people that is Magic and I really think we need it I think like postco we all went online and that was such a blessing for so many of us to be able to work from home like that flexibility that's amazing but I do feel like we miss this connection and community and it can feel really lonely so for me doing the Live Events is really just an opportunity to go what would it be like if people could find their people and do something in real

01:22:28 - 01:23:20

life and so far it's been it's been so fun and being able to hug people who have been like I listened to your podcast for like five years it's like I don't I don't think even think the podcast has run for five years but cool so that like to me is is Magic yeah we've started doing more Live Events and there's certainly a different Dynamic of chemistry because it's a sense of we're in this together we're all here right now we're in the present we're sharing

01:22:55 - 01:23:56

this experience with others live versus I'm experiencing this virtually I know you have an event coming up I believe in November yes yeah so for those that are listening to this that would like to check out your live event here in Sydney is it just in Sydney at this point in time we're doing Sydney and we'll do it virtual as well this one so wonderful so people International listening to this can tune in how can they find it how can they get a ticket oh my gosh yes so if you go to laurens.com event

01:23:25 - 01:24:16

you can get the details for any events that we have coming up but our November event is going to be so fun we're hanging out in Sydney we're like the space is beautiful it's on Bondi Beach it's going to be bougie and lovely and I can't wait and we're also going to do it on Zoom so that's going to be a whole hip of fun hell yeah guys check it out and I'm devastated I can't CM I know you invited me I know unfortunately we'll be in or fortunately we'll be in Germany

01:23:51 - 01:24:47

but yeah yeah I'm pumped man we're going to Hamburg go Frank Frankfurt we're going to Frankfurt are you doing a tour kind of like I think we're starting to do a lot more International things which which we're pumped about but yeah I definitely would love to tune in virtually if I if it oh my gosh fits well yeah I was like I want you to speak at it so I'll just get you to I'll just get you call you just come to the next you I have to have you come and do something because people in my

01:24:19 - 01:25:27

community have absolutely loved your content and are like obsessed with your book and so I just yeah it's just it's just so fun and I want to say as well when I found you online I was so stoked because you put your little location North Sydney and I was like oh my gosh like you're doing such big you're playing such a big game and I love seeing like Aussies doing that because a lot of the time it's Americans that are doing the like crazy big have amazing businesses or podcasts or

01:24:53 - 01:25:53

content and I just just feel like it's so cool to see you crushing it and it's so inspiring for other people like me who are like cool Dane's doing that I could do that too and so so many people who follow you would feel that same inspiration and motivation from you I appreciate that thank you so much and the same goes back to you I look at what you're doing and I feel like Sydney and Australia were in our Renaissance Era like we're we're we're coming out we're going International we're doing big [ __ ]

01:25:24 - 01:26:28

so get ready okay so in closing today what's a quote or a mantra that you've carried with you on your entire Journey that you wish that you could download and give to others okay what's my quote I want it to be fire yeah it has to be fire it has to be fire okay what's the quote what's the quote it's going to be a boring one I can sense it because it's so basic it's so basic we're just going to go with it the big quote that has helped me and I think will help so many creatives and

01:25:55 - 01:27:03

any perfectionists out there is that done is better than perfect I think as business owners as entrepreneurs as creators we need to have a bias toward action and so if we can take action even if it's Scrappy even if it's not perfect even if it feels a little bit clunky we are going to get so much more feedback and we're going to be able to refine and improve from there so done is better than perfect guys you heard it done is better than perfect get out there and make it happen and make sure you tune in to Laura's event

01:26:30 - 01:26:38

get yourself a ticket don't miss out cuz it's time to take action

‍