What Makes a Winning Brand Partnership? | Kat Moses

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[Music] I didn't really give a about fitting in cat Moses is the CEO and founder of Boutique talent agency MGMT as well as co-founder of fashion accessory Brand C CLE the product is beautiful like it looks gorgeous and it definitely has this designer elevated feel to it have you seen people that haven't had the Knack figure it out no we as a team it's not I don't work for you you don't work for me we work together something I started doing recently was reading the Australian

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financial review me too how good is it right no companies are creating actual AI Clauses no like AI like humans like they're like oh yeah that's what's freaking me out yeah I do believe that I was one of the first agencies to start really taking influence marketing seriously I don't even have lot to talk about this so [ __ ] whatever [Music] I would like to welcome cat Moses to the agency podcast wow what an intro it's a good one right yeah if I was single I'd put that on my dating app that's a

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really good dating app one right so I think one thing that I I really like about what you're doing is you're right in the pocket of influencer marketing yes and this is something that you hear a lot of and you know personal branding or influence or whatever like whatever label you want to put on a we could agree that the industry is changing right always and would you say now more than ever you're you're noticing an a dramatic shift or do you think it's kind of like business as

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usual it just has different phrases attached to it like what's your opinion it's funny because ever since I opened the agency uh almost 10 years ago now every every year I would always just hear the same thing from people influencer marketing's dying it's dying no one wants to use influencers like budget's get being moved around and each year I'd be like oh [ __ ] like maybe this is the year where like it's going to come to a stop but each year like I think in the past 5 years we've

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had on average year on-year 20 to 30% growth um and so and that's not even by like significantly increasing our roster that's from having like the same roster essentially um so so when you say roster you're talking about your talent um so I think that um I think it's a growing Market I think it's a necessary Market um and I think that when Brands utilize it properly it can unlock so much potential for them and it's interesting cuz I would liken it to maybe the recruitment

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space right because you have to find the company that is hiring and then you also have to find the talent that they are looking for and you're very much a bridge or a conduit between these two worlds what what do you find as like um the dynamic that that is for you like what what are the biggest challenges to I guess be accomplished in both reals and then how do you pull them together I think that I think it's having as an I mean I don't do as much of the talent agent stuff anymore um but

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when I was doing it it is finding that balance of I think you're sort of you're almost educating both parties all the time so a brand might come to you and say oh we're interested in this talent and you're just like how that Talent is not a line at all to your brand or a talent might say hey I want to be working with X brand and you're like but you don't you don't do anything or look at any way that is aligned to that brand and that's not their fault but that is a

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that's definitely like something where you would open up the conversation of like okay great right now that's probably not going to happen however if that's where you want to go into that type of Channel then we need to do a whole revamp of your brand and this is what you need to be doing and this is how you need to be doing it um so I think that you know our job is to make sure that brands are working with the right talent and and vice versa um I've always been big on strategic development

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personal branding um I'm not someone who just you know just cuz the brand comes to us with x amount of money I'm just going to take the money just for a quick win um you know I've knocked back deals for like $100,000 like you know big deals like that um because it's just not the right brand alignment so it's also and and I do think that that is probably why MGMT has such a good reputation in Market because not only do we care about the talent but we care about the brand as well and we want to make sure that both

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parties are achieving the best result essentially yeah and and it would be tricky right cuz you're talking about uh aligning belief systems commonality relevance things of that nature and I could imagine like in my mind I think of you know famous campaigns or famous collaborations between like if you take Michael Jordan and you take Nike you know if you look at the personality or archetype of Nike it's very like tenacious it's very liberating it's all about you know confidence and esteem and

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empowerment then you take someone like Michael Jordan very much aligns with that AA or energy is that what you're meaning about like aligning because you you have to have you kind have someone that's like cute sweet and innocent you know um uh doing a a PR campaign for like a heavy metal concert like no it's you got to bring alignment and yeah and the amount of times that I've seen Brands um jump on maybe like a trending influence at the moment or they jump on someone where just because they have so

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many followers they're like I want to work with them and what happens is you're working with a talent who doesn't enccompass you as a brand and it's not it's not coming across in the way they want it to come across to the audience so there is a mismatch um and that can be quite detrimental to the brand because customers can see that and go well hold on a minute I don't really I never envisioned the brand to be working with that type of talent am I really aligned to that brand cuz like I'm not

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aligned to that Talent so so and I say that because that's happened to me as a customer I've seen a brand work with a certain talent and nothing wrong with that Talent at all I think against them but I'm not aligned to their style or their you know whatever it might be and I'm like oh that has kind of turned me off a bit off the BR interesting yeah what would you classify that as is that like relevance like how do you make sure that that there is that alignment what what's your set of rules or your

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criteria for that um for me it's have you ever genu used that brand or product have you ever had a genuine interest in it is this something that maybe has sparked interest for you if it hasn't then there's no point of promoting it because it's going to come across so inauthentic and what usually happens is if a talent says yes to a brand for the money or because they're like I can make it work usually what happens is they're trying to make it work and then they get frustrated because they can't make it

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work and it's like well you should have just said no from the start and then we wouldn't be trying to make something work because at the end of the day it's the talent decision um if they want to do something like we can only give so much guidance and perspective and information um but at the end of the day it's their decision if they want to do something then yeah we're on board we'll facilitate it but we've done our jobs and we've given the advice and and try to steer you in another Direction um and

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then I think what happens is and this isn't all the time but I think the talent then I think it's a learning for them I think they go okay not doing that again like I've learned from that experience I Now understand I'm now going to be more restrictive or protective of my brand um and I guess it's just a learning experience but I think they have to do that to realize yeah it's almost like you know um you know when you're a kid you fall over you hurt yourself you're like oh don't do

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that again yeah yeah yeah okay so so if someone probably a terrible analogy but anyways moving on um so I want to dive into some like a stat here that that we were looking at and it said that the value of influencer marketing lies in the fact that 69% of consumers trust influences recommendations over information straight from a brand I.E a company or Corporation yeah what do you think that is or why do you think that is why do I think it is I think because influencers are real people um I think

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that they're getting information from a real person an authentic person someone who is genuinely tried the product um don't get me wrong there's influencers out there who probably haven't tried the product and have just taken the check and and that's fine um but I do think that those type of influences um I think the customers too smart these days they know they can see stra straight through it well they grow up on the inet exactly they've seen it all exactly so you can't

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lie to them um and I think with Brands I think with customers they're there probably is like a little bit of distrust there um and I think that's why in brand mark Mar which you probably you know are well equipped in um what I'm about to say is why there is such an emphasis on community building um and retaining customers and that loyalty and stuff like that um because that's how you're going to grow the trust of your customer um and I think when you work with influencers who

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embody your brand and your messaging um it just adds further trust to that brand so yeah right and and and do you think that the anything to do with intergenerational play here like for example if you take the boomer generation they kind of grew up and got into business and then like got through their careers early on and then the internet arrived whereas someone who's Gen X you know had their youth without the internet and then early adulthood a massive dopamine hit of here the internet and then you know um

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Millennials kind of grew up with our younger youth kind of we we had both sides and then Jen Z are just like born with like Peppa Pig on yeah 247 so so do you think that the the as the generations get younger as they're more digitally native that that their just their alarm or their flag for like anything that's slightly advertisement Centric is just firing oh yeah they will not they will call you out like they will be in the comment section and warriors yeah roasting you you don't use that product yeah no literally um

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and I think that that's why brands you know really um I think that's why they found it so hard at the start to mark it to gen z um and I don't even know what is the next Generation Gen X uh gen Alpha think gen alha which weird think about that stresses me out I wouldn't even know how to advertise like I don't know what to do so so okay so with Gen Z like this is a really interesting point like why is it so important that Brands get this right and and what is it that most people are missing about genuine

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content Creation with genuine influences well I think you have to get it right with Gen Z because I don't know how many second chances they give you um I think that they're really like they're kind of like hard hard judges I would say um and I think that I think that when a brand works with an influencer the only way it's going to the only way you're going to get a good result is if you're working with someone who has authenticity who has consistency um and also willing to

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collaboratively work with them um I think a lot of the time Brands who don't understand how influencer marketing works is they try to just push their agenda and give a script and there's no creative freedom um so what we like to do and what we you know educate brands on is you know the best way the best result you're going to get is if you work with the influencer um on this campaign get them on a call get their ideas get their Vision see what's going to resonate with their like it's Their

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audience that you're essentially buying um so it always confuses me when Brands think that they know what's best for that influencers audience it's just not going to work um so if you give like you know and obviously like there's a limit to that but if you can take on board that influences I guess creative idea um or way that they think that Their audience is going to digest the content or the information um I feel like that is really the key with influencer marketing of working together and not so

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much just being like well here's your fee do what we say okay so not to be so transactional but to actually be integrated and engaged with each other so much so that you're not just like here's the brief here's the hashtags there's the product pay the bill where's my content you're saying don't behave like that so what ADV would you give to a brand if they're right now engaging with influencers I think if you have I think if you have you know the the general I guess the um general idea of

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the campaign or the the product whatever it is um I think it's going hey approaching the agent or the influencers um and just saying you know we're launching this product this is the general messaging of what we're trying to get out there would love you to pitch back a creative concept of how we can bring this to life to your audience um cuz I think that's where influencers can really Excel is in that creative content creation um and being able to I guess bring to life the Brand's messaging of

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that product or campaign um so it's almost like using them as like mini creative agencies like a little campaign so like here's the product here's what we do why we're great at it the problem we solve we'll leave the creative up to you but perhaps like here's some parameters of like you know we want it we don't want it to come across as too silly or too this or to that yeah like I think G of the days now of just sending an influencer product and just saying here's the KE messages here's the

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hashtag okay talk to camera hold it up it's not going to work doesn't work anymore no it doesn't work anymore um they want authenticity they want like the audience needs to see it in um how they used to seeing that influencer on their page cuz they're following the influencer for what they like to consistently see from the influencer and the product kind of has to like integrate into that in a native natural way yeah like I've seen some influencers not from my roster but external who have

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done brand work or who've done content pieces and I'm just like there this is so disconnected like who advised you to do this um and I just find it so interesting that and it's not their fault like they might not know any better but um it's just interesting to see what people I guess are willing to do and not really thinking about the long term of that and then for those that haven't I guess engaged with an influencer yet what what can an influencer give you that you can't get

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through meta or through SEO or through other means um I think authenticity I think that you know I can speak to C clear for example like paid ads um it's so hard to cut through now it's so expensive um we're actually relooking at how we can organically get reach again and the number one thing that we're doing is we are just sending curated product packages to influencers we're building relationships with them again we're even building relationships with um our customers like our top Spenders

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it's you know getting in touch with them and and asking them you know what do they want to see um what do they want to receive do you want to test this new product we have coming out um we'd love to send you a PR package not just influencers um and so I think that that's probably the biggest thing you're going to get is authenticity from an influencer and you're going to get really amazing content like we manage so many not just influencers but like really incredible content creators um

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and the stuff that they produce is stuff that like creative agencies would spend six months trying to come up with and like and they're just doing it off the car and these agencies are sending you like a $200,000 budget that you need and these influences producing it out so quickly and um the content like honestly it's incredible content um so I do think as well Brands need to think about I guess like um dividing how they want to use influencers because yes yeah like you'll have your influencers who are

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purely for return on investment like performance drivers um and they're probably you know your ones where they have a really engaged Community they can kind of post it and get away with like a really generic messaging and they're is probably going to buy into it just because they love that person so much and that's great that's performance driven and then you kind of have your influences that are going to bring more of a brand awareness play so um you know that that uh follower might not purchase

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instantly but they might remember it a week from now two weeks from now and be like oh yeah I saw so and so post this I'm going to buy it now because like I've seen I've seen it around elsewhere um and then you're going to have your influencers who are the content creators um and they're the ones where you're probably just going to get them to create the content and then you're going to use that content on your channels um so you're going to use it as like a branding play or for paid usage or

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whatever it might be um so you kind of have to figure out what are you trying to achieve with influencer marketing and which influences you going to segment into each objective essentially yeah that makes sense to me and it's just making sure that there's Synergy and then like I guess the upcycle of that is like you get content you get to meet some cool people and get some fun creative out there in the market some different ideas and then also like look at maybe influences as like these little

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micro campaigns that you can go wow that one really worked how do we bring that into our meta ads and into our campaigns because I've had clients that have taken stuff that like a random influencer did that became a big part of their brand identity yeah and it was just because they tested a narrative or they tested a concept or a feeling or what have you yo my name is Dane Walker and I am disgustingly obsessed with branding I had to figure out a way to do branding every single day so I branded

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vomi so if you want to absolutely smoke the competition and make your brand go viral hit the link below and book in your free 30-minute branding session now so another stat here is that according to Shopify uh 36% of businesses surveyed stated that influencer content outperform forms brand created content uh and that value uh you know I guess is is incredibly attached I believe to the narrative because you're you're diving into not just an influencer because if you get beyond that that label what

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you're really working with is kind of the um the leader of that parade of that community so do you look at an influencer not just as the individual but like as a greater community that are seeking something specific and then we giving brand access to that because why is it that the percentage of performance is so much higher is it because of the the tribes belief in the leader is it the narrative that they're I guess spinning to the crowd like what specific granular details do you think it is I

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think it's a combination of of what you've just said but I also think it's that Brands and and we do this as see clear as well like we Brands can be a bit I guess stiff in their content I don't know if that's the right word but I think that you you don't as I've definitely been stiff with my content before I've experienced that where I'm like oh it's not working anymore like you know as a brand you have and Morgan's going to love that I'm saying this that you have your you have your

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brand guidelines and you're not allowed to Circle I'm on that train yes get your brand guidelines you're not allowed to you know color outside of those lines so that's a really good way of framing yeah so you are um like with C clear for example Morgan is a very strict on the textures that we shoot on and the logo has to be black and it has to be this measurement and we have to have this product and it has to be in this lighting and we cannot do anything different because it has to

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be in line with The Branding I love Morgan yeah yeah I love Morgan too and so I think as a brand you um you have a bit of a like you're a bit restricted in what you can do yes um and but you've created those restrictions yourself right but I do think that as a brand they are required um for storytelling I think they're required um just visually aesthetically I think it you know I think humans need to see repetition um I think when you see as a brand that they are shooting in the same style the same

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lighting the same logo all that type of stuff I think it does sort of create a bit of a trust with the customer as well um and I think that it helps them identify that that's their style and that's what they gravitate towards and then I think why probably influencers content probably works better is because they give you a feeling that they're talking directly to you so you have that personal connection with the influencer because I you on that Journey yeah you're almost like in this um

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virtual relationship versus I'm being it's almost like your brain's not uh it's almost like it's bypassing a part of your brain cuz if you're looking at an ad you're like I'm watching an ad of course they going to tell me something they're selling me something but if an influencer is just talking to me and they're also doing something it's like goes over my head kind of goes over my head and then I'm like now I'm buying the product I'm like oh I'm buying it

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because of the yeah well it's that whole um and you know I feel like Alex Earl really led the way with this I think that she really led the pack in that whole you feel like you're on FaceTime with a friend yes um and I know people were doing that before her I know that but I think with her she she did it so well why um I think that she has and I've followed her for a really long time um I think that she has this really great way of being relatable even though she's not relatable what do you mean by that well

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she's like this gorgeous blonde bombshell with like fake boobs and the skinniest waist and like she's partying every weekend and she's on private jets and she's you know dating NFL player but for whatever reason she's maintained that relatability and I think that that is through bringing her community really in okay so not like um uh the the I guess the boundary stops here she's like no full access she has no boundaries it is like you have full access I think as well she's not precious um I think when

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you watch her videos you know her room is a mess all the time she has designer bags just all all over the ground she's throwing expensive [ __ ] around like she's just get it's almost like she's just getting ready like any other young 20-year-old is getting she's not doing one of those super curated like no [ __ ] way your bedroom looks like that all the time pieces of content no and I think girls um and guys I think that um people look at that and they're like oh yeah my room looks like that oh yeah

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I've I've got something make my closet like that like oh I do my makeup like that like she she keeps that relatability um and I think that when when you're I think that that is I guess I think that's where influencer marketing is currently currently is and I don't see it moving from that for a while okay I would agree with you I know if that answered the question that totally answers the question cuz cuz I yeah next question dude uh I agree with that like I was I was chatting to

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someone the other day about triny London yes and I've watched some of her content recently and she's like it's like 6 or 5 or 6 in the morning and she's like rambling to the camera while she's doing a liptick she wearing a bra her hair looks like [ __ ] and she's just having a blast and everyone in the comments is just like I love you and it's just people are being hyper relatable like this is the raw real authentic me with all of its imperfections and everything yeah and I think that Tik Tok played a

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big part um and YouTube of bringing that in um I think that when I first started my career it was very much I mean we weren't even really monetizing Instagram at that point it was still blogs um so I was working with influenc wasn't even a word it was vloggers cuz that was really when I remember um 20 2012 was like kind of post Myspace era and like heavy Facebook era heavy Facebook I think Instagram like was kind of it had like hit it like it was a thing was just a photo thing it was photos though um and

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it was very curated and it was kind of Posh it was so polished it was like you had to have a proper photographer taking your photos you had to be like editing them all um choosing your filter choosing your filters yeah it was very much like selling this lifestyle that people loved I think they saw it as like a bit of an escapism and then I think um you know as everything evolved I think that with the introduction of like YouTube Tik Tok um even Snapchat it kind of change it kind of like slowly moved

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into I think people just craving like realness yeah it's it's really strange cuz I think if even if you look at what's happening with Legacy Media like I think in the UK Legacy Media is still hot like you still have like DJs that are like you know have a rabid fan base cuz I think the UK is pretty tight like it's not a massive geographical area but in the US it's so big and fractured and I think that Legacy Media there is slipping because everything's highly polished highly curated massively edited

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and then you have all these podcasts just blowing up oh my God because it's just like them in their basement just having at it having a really heavy-handed debate going to 5 Hour conversations with like politicians and scientists and it's like access like we've never had before and I I think it's like a weird cocktail cuz if you go back to like 2007 the internet was [ __ ] and like everything was so slow so you couldn't upload that much material anyways so it's like a you know

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acceleration of Technology uh a lot of advertisers jumping into the space it's just kind of spiraled everything up into back to organic which is interesting which is like I like this era of the internet I would agree yeah um and I think what it did as well is it opened it opened opportunity up to anyone can do this um I think that back then it was sort of like you had to fit a certain style or frame or appearance um and I think that you know YouTube Tik Tok um I think that it it just opened up the playing field

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it was no longer this exclusive space that only you know your genetically blessed person could be on um it's sort of like anyone can do this now and I think that I think that really rattled a lot of those OG influencers or bloggers because I don't think that they knew they had become so good at being polished that they didn't know how to be real yeah like if you take um like some people that come to mine like I love sethen name dropping Seth Gorden who's that so Seth Gorden he wrote the book Purple Cow

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oh okay um he's like an OG marketer but he was big in the the blog writing days especially in like the marketing space the kind of academic uh more uper echelons and business kind of category and he does really well on YouTube but like it's it's interesting there's a lot of people you're right like they were really good at blogging and they were really struggling to transition into uh more face Toof face video style content yeah and it's hard like filming filming face to camera is not

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easy um like I remember when I first started to do it on Tik Tok it's like you're sort of I don't know I don't know how to explain but like you it takes a while to get like a mini crisis yeah like you you take a while to get used to doing that and I think that you know back to I think Alex L is just the EAS easiest example but she also just has that knack for like just getting the camera up and just talking to it and filming and that can actually that makes a lot of people uncomfortable um and so I think that if

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you weren't willing to move into that style of content you kind of got left behind right okay so so you had to have um in your phrase like a neack have have you seen people that haven't had the neck figure it out no why do you think that is um I think that I think you just either have it or you don't have it I love that take yeah like I just think that it's something in you I think that um can't fake it right yeah you can't fake it and I think that being in front of a camera which is very

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like I don't think being in front of a camera is normal so it's not normal it's almost like uh if you were holding up your calculator in school and just start talking to her it's really weird not normal so I don't want to say like oh they're wrong for not just you know adapting to it be best friends with your phone what yeah literally so I I don't think that I think that you know I think that you you have your You' you had your way of doing something for so long and

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it's so hard to Pivot out of that um and and I've I've had to you know reassess MGMT at times of like we were an agency that were very strict on who we represented and they had to be polished and curated and and be in that style and then what we started to see was um budgets and the the the market started to move away from that and they started to move into your YouTubers your vloggers like that type of style and so we had to Pivot to start signing Talent like that um which was a change for me because I really grappled

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with oh my God but that's not that's not what the agency stands for like [ __ ] I'm going to have to like am I going to lose talent because now we're signing this type of talent and we did we we started to lose Talent who weren't evolving okay in that nature so the the old God if you will was the polished finessed elegant yeah we had to change him the gods and and then we went to this kind of Scrappy haphazard more raw real organic uh as the next era when do you think that really like began and when do

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you think that that hits scale or is it not yet at scale um I think for MGMT that happened in oh I mean like the the era of like like if you look at the era of like organic content do you think it's like hit Peak yet or you think it's like on its way I think we're currently in it in the peak right now yeah I think we're in the peak yeah I don't know what the next thing's going to be going to be but I think we're in the peak of it if you take a stab into dark do you have any

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inclinations or hunches of like what might come next around the corner I think we are moving into more influencers let's just use the word influencers I think that we're moving more into influencers who it's going back to who have like an actual skill set and something to say so you see the rise of like substack for example right okay um I think that people like that it's kind of leading more into that like thought driven um you're going to their page you're leaving with

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information um I think that's going to be the next transition of like people with like real niches like deep expertise I think expertise sorry that's the word yeah I I think and I think that's what it was and I think that it's moving back into that slowly why do you think that's the case um I think people I don't know if it's F I don't know if the cons or the audience is getting fatigue they might be I would agree you know what I mean yeah like what's next we might be losing brain cells sometimes

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with What's happen I've had a bit of that I'm like what am I doing here I should be learning something yeah and I I you know what I saw that and a lot of um people's like uh like I don't really do resolutions but people's resolutions for example I saw online a lot of people were like I feel like my brain is mush like I need to get back to reading an articles and creating my own opinion about the article um rather than just reading someone's comment and going oh yeah that's my opinion right cuz you

00:34:38 - 00:35:29

it's almost like we're um uh regurgitating each other's comments and opinions versus like going to the source exactly people want to go back to Source material yeah and I found I found myself doing it too of like I'd watch something on Tik Tok and then I'd go straight to the comment section to see what people were saying and then I just adapt whatever they were saying and you look for the comments you're like agree with this going what's my opinion on that what do I think about that you're like

00:35:03 - 00:35:56

seeking validation before you make a decision yeah exactly so that's a great Insight yeah that's what I think I'm you know no we're riing here it's good could be wrong um I started doing recently was reading the Australian financial review me too how good is it right I got a subscription it's so good I paid by little $9 subscription I felt really smart I'm like look at me I was like I need to learn more outside of whatever the [ __ ] I'm looking at yeah and I had

00:35:30 - 00:36:23

this Epiphany I was like what like dude I cuz I was getting all my news through memes at one point yeah and I was like this is not healthy literally the majority of my news that I was sharing with my friends was meme oriented with no fact no fact checking nothing s a meme it has to be true it's hilarious as hell buy into it yeah and then I subscribed to the AFR and I'm scrolling through it and I'm looking at it and the thing that I find most interesting about the strain financial review is it's an

00:35:56 - 00:36:45

extreme polarity and this is what I mean so you scroll through it and it's either this company's doing phenomenally well it went from here to here or this company's gone from here to dog [ __ ] and it went from here to here nothing in the middle no that's boring it's W's and L's and that's it all the way sell they need to sell the news they need to sell the news they not going to give you a like like Starbucks business as usual no they either want to know if you failed or if

00:36:21 - 00:37:13

you really succeed Starbuck Clos 67 stores here's why and I like that it's a little dramatic but I like to get the top and the bottom okay what's going with like okay law firms are getting taged right now banks are doing great and it's like what does that mean for me and it's just trying to figure out the dots yeah I was big on like thei I read a lot um or I just like get their newsletters I just kind of pick and choose what I want to digest and then um business of fashion I really

00:36:47 - 00:37:48

love to to get their daily newsletters right yeah business of fashion yeah they're very good um just like good insights into the industry like very Trend driven um they'll kind of like update you on just you know where where brands are heading they'll give you information on like m&as and stuff like that um yeah just a very informative publication it's so good so you sound like or strike me is the type of person that's trying to consistently be plugged into the Zeitgeist business owners if you're

00:37:18 - 00:38:25

stuck using one platform for every project you're probably stuck in a growth bottleneck more clients means more hires which just adds noise and cuts in into profits to break the loop you need flexible tools that don't stretch your resources Wix studio is a smart addition to your business toolkit intuitive by design your team can quickly Master the platform and focus on the work that matters the most then keep up the momentum with a built-in management tool a unified dashboard reusable assets and a figma plugin that

00:37:51 - 00:39:01

turns static design into launch ready websites with robust native Business Solutions like booking e-commerce and events you can take any project at any scale without the added cost of third party plugins plus Wick studio is a low maintenance platform meaning you can redirect the client budget towards real growth initiatives think more value for clients steady income streams and stronger relationships to get started simply go to wix.com for/ studio so so like there's like a um if you look at a z guys it's kind of

00:38:26 - 00:39:26

like what's the public array around a said topic right and then what's that Trend in the economy in politics in Industry cuz then when you're talking to the brands you're clued in and when you're talking to the influencers they're like how do you know so much and then you're like I'm the bridge between two worlds and you know what that was something that I implemented with and I implemented it with my talent agents as well is we need to we need to kind of be a wealth of

00:38:56 - 00:39:53

knowledge because you know like anyone can not anyone can kind of book a job but like what more are we giving to our talent other than what we're already doing okay so rather than just got got another lead for you exactly right so how do you stay on the pulse of like social media the latest hacks Trends things of that nature other than like you know subscribing to newsletters and things like that like how do you make sure we are always white hot on what's Happening yeah I think that that comes from I mean I'm on

00:39:27 - 00:40:42

pretty much every platform um constantly keeping up to date um I think as well um you know with my agents we have like two meetings a week where we discuss what's currently trending what what have you guys seen like what's changing the market all that type of stuff so we're constantly keeping each other updated I feel like it's a lot of apps Publications talking to my agents and I think also having an open mind cuz I feel like when you're in when you're so used to doing what you're

00:40:04 - 00:41:07

doing you sort of Miss things so I think as well like making sure that I'm networking a lot still I think that a few years ago I sort of became a bit complacent whereas now you know if someone asks me for a coffee um I don't really care who you are like I'll go like just to like not because I need something from it but I just think it's good to like get people's different like perceptions or opinions or what what are they doing like are they going to teach me something new so I've kind of opened

00:40:35 - 00:41:25

myself up in that way again um and I find that that like I'm learning new information from different people that I'm meeting and I think that's been really helpful as well in the real world as opposed to just digesting digitally you're saying that physical um networking and interactivity has really helped you yeah absolutely I think for a long time there everyone just wanted to stay on their phones and not talk to each other yeah it's almost like that everything's swinging back the other way

00:41:01 - 00:42:00

I'm finding that too like I'm like craving more social hangs it's weird it's almost like being social is cool again yeah and I think just being like inquisitive with people like just like not being afraid to to ask like what do you and what is that like I don't know what that is what like what do you do like what is that like tell me about it um I think that I don't know I I think that like we've kind of become a bit not afraid to ask but I feel it's a bit like it's ass shume that we should know

00:41:30 - 00:42:30

everything um and I think that it's important to open yourself up to different people like look at your circle like are they are they all doing the same job are they all like hanging out the same places or can you diversify your friendship group um I think that's important I think that that opens your mind up so in in the world of business um let's separate business from social life momentarily in the world of business what benefits is there into really exploring your network and and

00:42:00 - 00:43:06

how do you make sure that there's um you're not just I guess exploring a business Network for the sake of getting leads but you're genuinely trying to plug in and meet cool people yeah I think that my whole business both businesses MGMT and C clear have been built off relationships and networking um for me that has been the biggest strength um in both of the businesses I think that as I said before you know really making that effort to meet people in person or jump on like a video call

00:42:32 - 00:43:31

or whatever it might be um I think that even just finding ways of like collaborating together um asking those questions like seeing how you can help each other it doesn't always have to be transactional um because someone that you meet today you might have an idea to work with them 5 years from now like I've had that happen where I've met someone 5 years ago haven't spoken to them since and then all of a sudden we've reconnected and there's something that we're going to work on um but we

00:43:03 - 00:44:12

wouldn't have reconnected if we didn't make that initial connection so I think that it's just important to I think give everyone the time a day I think it's important to not keep your business Network closed off I think you should keep it open in a sense um because you just never know who you're going to come across there's so much truth in that cuz often times I've found that like random little moments of interaction with random people have led to like really interesting situations right and like

00:43:38 - 00:44:26

Cam and I were joking about this recently who's a media producer behind this like just one weird interaction we had put us on a radio station and another one like invited us to an event and then we had a lot of fun there and then we made a couple clients we made a couple lifelong friends it it's almost like yeah even though we're in business we can't lose face that people are valuable outside just leads and outside of just clients like we need to hang with like-minded people that think like

00:44:02 - 00:45:10

us see the world like us we can collaborate on problem solving even if we're not working together per se yeah totally I would say that you know a huge what's been a huge help for CCL is the the relationships that myself and Morgan have built over the course of 10 years in both of our careers she's more in creative and I'm obviously more in um like influencer marketing and you know building relation relationships within our business and being able to utilize them in CCL has been huge that's been one of the biggest

00:44:35 - 00:45:34

things that has helped us launch and that's helped us kind of get our name out there um because if we hadn't have built those relationships I don't know how successful how quickly of the success would have come for CCL and with CCL how like so how long exactly have you guys had that in the market and was there a point where you were running the agency that you like like there's another project I want to build here cuz it's quite a different direction but you're also similarly like in the same

00:45:05 - 00:46:11

kind of Realm cuz you're using influencers for your product as well yeah I had MGMT for I think five years at this point um and I always knew that my next thing was going to be in product well I wanted it to be in product um cuz I had only ever done service and the idea just happened to come up just in casual conversation between Morgan and I we were just discussing traveling and we were looking for a really beautiful clear cosmetic case and we couldn't find anything um and so I just said I said

00:45:38 - 00:46:25

you know we should like we should just make one and she's never started a business before and so she was like yeah whatever like didn't like hung up the phone and then the next morning I called her and I was like right I've got the ABN like let's do this like there was no conversation of like what are you talking do you even want to own a business like do you even want to be a business partner with me just sort of was like okay we're doing this like you have no choice we're going to do this

00:46:01 - 00:47:06

and um we really didn't think about it but looking back looking back like if we had thought about it it probably wouldn't have launched to be honest um and that was the same with MGMT I launched MGMT within two weeks I didn't even think about it it just was up um and so we just started it and I think that that's been one of the most challenging things that I've ever done in my career is C clear um but I do think that you know MGMT has really helped in whether it's avoiding mistakes

00:46:34 - 00:47:25

just in business from what I've learn with MGMT um or as to your point like having access to to influencers and having those relationships and having them promote the brand um that's been you know super beneficial to us as well yeah because you're you're playing in the space of the advertising component uh which is you know quote unquote influencing but it's still a part of the advertising marketing space you got access to that and then you're kind of bringing your brand into it one thing

00:46:59 - 00:47:46

you mentioned there and I I would say that if you you know when you're at like a barbecue with someone and they're like I got an idea for a business and you're like tell me and then they tell you and you're like there's no merit to that ever being real if someone would have tell me yeah there was no cool like cosmetic bag that was clear so I made one I'd be like oh okay whatever but like what you've done I think I think this is interesting was when I went to the website and I was looking at it I

00:47:22 - 00:48:26

was like oh this is kind of lowkey a flex like if a woman has like really cool cosmetics and she's out she wants people to see what it is in the bag and you can make it cool so there's this massive attractive appeal to it yeah we live in a very vain Society myself included um and you know when we were having that conversation about getting out our clear bag at airport security I was mortified at pulling out an ugly clear bag even though it was just going to be the security guy gives a [ __ ]

00:47:54 - 00:48:51

about what's in my bag but to me I was like like he's looking at the brand like that's what you wear and as if I'm like as somebody like as if people are watching me and like what I'm pulling out but I don't know for whatever reason I and Morgan's like Morgan's way more OCD than I am but um I like everything like I like everything to look cohesive and look nice and you know you spend money on these um really expensive Beauty items like a Tom Ford Illuminator or you're spending on a Chanel

00:48:23 - 00:49:24

Foundation whatever it is like little Rolexes yeah to what to just hide in a bag you want to show it off like you want to show off the beautiful paging and you know we live in a society now where you also want to take photos of everything so like I want to Instagram and show people what's in my cosmetic case I want to show them what I'm traveling with and I want it to look aesthetically pleasing um and so I think that for us it was like we didn't all we kind of saw on Market was you know

00:48:53 - 00:49:50

really cheaply pull quality ones that are on like Amazon for for example or you had like the ones that you would get as like a gift with purchase with a skincare brand and it would be plastered with like their logo all over it and it just didn't look nice felt tacky yeah and so we couldn't find anything and then that's when I was like why don't we just really interesting cuz yeah if you described that to me at a barbecue I'd be like I've seen a thousand of those like what's the deal um cuz I probably

00:49:22 - 00:50:29

got 18 of those in my bathroom under the sink right now but I also think it's the messaging that's behind the brand as well um I did say when we were launching it we sort of were like [ __ ] like how are we going to sell this because it is essentially just a clear case right and we both wanted to bring in our I guess like our friendship into the messaging um our personalities What We Stand By and the reason why Morgan and I became such fast friends in this industry is because we both just had the same set of

00:49:55 - 00:50:51

values we were very transparent honest people we didn't really give a [ __ ] what people thought of us like what we said we didn't like really um you know you can so easily in this industry try to want to fit in and I don't know if it's because she's from the Central Coast I'm from Western Sydney I didn't really give a [ __ ] about fitting in like I was just making my business to make money and build something um and so we wanted to bring that messaging in so we see clear

00:50:23 - 00:51:20

the reason why the products are clear is because we don't want you to be afraid to show off what you have be yourself like show off your true colors essentially don't give a [ __ ] if people can see that there's tampons in your bag or there you know like there's condoms or whatever it is um live authentically um and that kind of comes out in in our products of not being ashamed the product is beautiful like it looks gorgeous and it definitely has this designer elevated feel to it thank and I

00:50:52 - 00:51:53

love thank you for saying that cuz so many people oh how hard is it to make it and I'm like no you don't understand how many samples I I look I looked at it like a designer so like I think one thing I'm I'm like I'm not a deep expert on this and and like you know um I'm I'm obsessed right now with the world of fashion and particularly High fashion I believe High fashion is legitimately the most difficult um uh to Traverse industry for Branding in the world oh yeah you either get it right or you

00:51:22 - 00:52:21

don't and most people don't know how to get it right when they it's like you know when you see like a gorgeous piece of artwork and people are like I could do that yeah you need a lot of patience yeah but you also need a network you need a narrative a lot of money you need a lot of money you need a gorgeous Museum like it's Fashion's kind of similar to that cuz if if you take something like Tom Ford very elegant brand but like I think there's a Nuance right so like if you take uh Louis

00:51:51 - 00:52:54

Vuitton it's about being sexy right y Tom Ford also about being sexy oh yeah different type of sexy more of a naughty MH um pessimistic sexy Chey yeah really like cheeky sexy Dy a little bit a little bit like well what's what's what's was that a backhanded compliment and then and then Louis Vuitton is just sexy sophisticated very sophisticated elegant and Timeless yeah what I'm getting at here is like when you were building this bag and and thinking about how do we brand this how do we build a

00:52:23 - 00:53:25

narrative around this cuz obviously people like it's just a clear bag but it's not how do you describe what that is that gives it that finesse that edge that X Factor I think if we speak a lot to the quality of the products um I think when people think of PVC or you know the naughty word plastic they think that it's really cheap or it's flimsy or whatever it might be and the feedback that we always get from our customers is they just can't believe the quality of this PVC and that was from myself and

00:52:54 - 00:53:57

Morgan you know doing so many rounds of samples of trying to find like I can't tell you what I've learned about PBC there are so many different like thicknesses and like levels to it and um even Heat by which it's manufactured yeah and you also can't like you think that you're like oh I just want to do that design the factory is like um that's not going to stand up on its own like you need to we we can't do that essentially so um you know we we've had to be very detail oriented because you

00:53:25 - 00:54:35

can see everything so the Stitch if you look at our bags um close up the stitching is to Perfection I noticed that I'm not just trying to flatter you like I was like zooming in and I was like this is really good when the when the factories would send like the samples I would zoom in if I saw one little bit of a stitch that was off I was like you that needs to be fixed in bulk um they're also handmade so every bag is individually stitched um even down to like the quality of the canvas on the zipper the type of zippers that

00:54:00 - 00:54:53

we used we were very aware that we needed to make it look premium cuz even the shape felt premium is premi has slight like um it stands up on its own that's what I mean it stands up on its own it has this nice little elegant yeah taper to it and then I like how it has a giant zip like what do you call that thing on the end of the zip the um puller the puller yeah that thing's huge but I was like this thing the second I saw it I was like I'm buying one of these for my fiance it's a jump I'll

00:54:27 - 00:55:17

send it to you okay I'll yeah um I'll send it to you don't they're expensive yeah that'd be great um so so I noticed but like I was like immediately I was like I know that this isn't about the bag yeah it's not about the bag oh my God thank you so much I got it immediately I was like it's all about the flex of what I can put in it and be like look what I have Mr security guard of the airport cuz we are we are brand first we're not product first we're not trying to

00:54:51 - 00:55:53

sell a million units in like a week like we're not trying to be that we are in this for for the long run and to your point with high-end fashion brands and luxury if you look at the history of those Brands they have been around for years um and they have cemented themselves as the authority in that space and so we're not trying to be just this like off-the-cuff brand that you kind of can you know jump like go into Kmart and like purchase like we're not that type of brand it's um the customer

00:55:23 - 00:56:19

who's buying our products it's it's a thought out purchase um it's someone who probably has had to see the product a few times before they commit to the purchase um and what comes with that is a level of patience with myself and Morgan um and to Morgan's credit she's a lot better than I am because I'm the one that's you know in the p&l and the cash flow and and I'm like oh my God like how are we going to pay bills this month like we need to sell more product and

00:55:50 - 00:56:48

she's really like she's taught me to really be patient and also um Don't Stray away from the brand absolutely and and here's why I think this is I think this is interesting I think this is interesting so so like if you okay if you take a the business and you go okay we have the marketing division we have the sales and then we have the brand but then you look at the business a different way and you go okay we have the p&l we have the cash flow and then we have the balance sheet and

00:56:20 - 00:57:12

what I've been talking about with some of our clients is that if you take marketing that's about pnls profit and loss so marketing takes where are we getting the margins is there a profit is there a loss marketing can radically influence that cash flow is like we got to get someone on the ground putting this into the market getting people to buy it cash in the bank and if you go through a supplier you have to negotiate no we need the cash up front we're not going to do a 60 60-day delay or

00:56:46 - 00:57:48

whatever else we need the cash now that's the sales team's responsibility but the p&l that for me is branding okay right because The Branding will influence your um sorry no branding will influence your balance sheet yes so that's your asset and how is branding an asset well the biggest asset I believe is if you were to ever sell your company uhhuh you could probably sell it in Australia for 2.7x uhhuh but if you build a really reputable brands uhhuh that balance sheet all of a sudden

00:57:16 - 00:58:25

becomes 5 8 20x 100% we create uh what was it we create lifestyle accessories to help people live more transparently um and we spoke to that we were brand first we spoke to the fact that we are a premium brand um and we also spoke to not just the branding but we also spoke to the the actual need in the market for these type of products um which isn't always the case with premium Brands um usually you're just buying it because you bought into the brand messaging and you kind of want to show off that you

00:57:51 - 00:58:53

have it but I think with C clear we kind of um we speak to both of the needs like you want to say that you have a CA clear cosmetic case but you also need a cosmetic case for your things um and and you also need you know what we found with in the US in particular is they have a clear bag policy um with stadium attendances and concerts and stuff like that know yeah so we've also found that there is a need for that um but but beautiful bags because you kind of don't want to be that person that's got this

00:58:22 - 00:59:13

really like gorgeous outfit on you got this like shitty bag um so also designing to to that customer as well no one had done that yeah not really no not not no one's really no one's come in and owned the space okay so so would you say that you identified a gap in the market and then you're like there's definitely money in this Gap because there's a market for in the US where there's a need if you have a gorgeous outfit you don't want like a $20 giftwood purchase bag you want

00:58:48 - 00:59:41

something to designer not everyone is your audience um and I think we kind of lost our way a little bit for a moment there of trying to be everything to everyone okay this is important yeah how how do you see that because a lot of times we hear that phrase and I joke that like a lot of people when they're starting a business they're kind of like NPC's in a video game it's like they have like a default script that they go to they're like my audience is everyone and you're

00:59:14 - 01:00:10

like no no it's not no it's not so why isn't it and and why is that important cuz I just don't think that you can be everything to everyone you're never going to make everyone happy um there are people people there's a lot of people out there who don't see the value in what you're selling and that's fine there's a lot of people out there who do see the value in what you're selling um I know for me I would prefer to buy X car over that other car because

00:59:42 - 01:00:39

for me I'd rather pay that price because that means something to me the other person is more than happy to buy that other car okay so like if you're looking at like a Mercedes versus a Porsche the Mercedes you might be a bit more like oh that's a bit more classy totally a little bit naughty yeah totally and I just think that um I think as well we maybe got a bit caught up in the whole you know I don't know if you noticed this but there was this whole like you've got to Target

01:00:10 - 01:01:04

genen Z you've got to get genen Z J J get them you're [ __ ] yeah exactly and then I I kind of felt sorry for the millennial audience which is who I am cuz they sort of got pushed to yeah like [ __ ] the Millennials all that gen Z now yeah even though Millennials are the ones that have the money yeah we're we're out here building businesses buying houses and cars yeah and so I think that we kind of had to regroup and go you know what yes jenz is that makes up a portion of our audience for sure um

01:00:37 - 01:01:37

but but why don't we focus on where we're actually seeing growth and why don't we drill into that and try and be really great at that before we try and explore a different audience okay so C clear is focused on Millennials I would say so and then let's cycle back to personal branding if you had a like as a gang what would it be I don't know I think that we have a really you know what the thing that Brands always say about us is that we're really easy to work with Okay um and I love that I

01:01:07 - 01:02:01

think that when they come to us they know they know we're going to be responsive they know we're going to really look after their needs we know that we're not going to sell them this shitty deal um we're working collaboratively and I think with um potential Talent as well they always come to us and they're like I've had some who are like oh you know I asked around about you guys and um I think as an as a talent if you've been burned by your agency or agent you kind of get

01:01:34 - 01:02:38

this like PTSD and you think every agency is going to be like that and I've had Talent who are like oh my God everyone speaks like so highly of you and it's like they're a bit shocked um and so I'm really happy that I've managed to maintain that in the market um and I think I'm just known for being very honest and transparent um I have nothing to hide and and also like my favorite question with potential new Talent is they always ask me this on whether I do the introduction calls or

01:02:05 - 01:03:01

not um they always ask so where do you like where do you see me like where do you see me going what do you see for me and you know if I I could turn my sales skills on and give them a [ __ ] answer and be like I see you doing this and I can get you this and I can get you know like empty promises instead I answer really truthfully and I just say I can't give you that answer right now because I don't really know anything about you we haven't done a strategy meeting you want to do a strategy

01:02:34 - 01:03:19

meeting then I can tell you where I see you going I can tell you what you've been doing wrong I can tell you been doing right um and we can build this out together we work as a team it's not I don't work for you you don't work for me we work together um and so and I say to them like I know that's not the answer you want to hear I know you want to hear like I'm going to make you a million dollars and I'm going to get you this brand deal I don't know I can try to get

01:02:56 - 01:03:53

you that if we work together but I'm not going to promise that to you on the phone yeah I I said to a client recently when they were asking for a guarantee they're like dang what guarantee can you give us that our Shopify store is going to succeed and I was like I can't give you any guarantee you could go down in flames and they're like what what do you mean I was like if I were to guarantee you anything you should run yeah yeah I am here to be honest I'm here to give you the Stone Cold Truth about what we

01:03:25 - 01:04:14

have to do to win and if that's not what you're looking for I'm not your guy yeah if you want real honesty and you want an actual strategic partner we're going to have to be honest not everything's going to work yeah are you really ready to work cuz I will put in the work yeah I think there's an interesting Dynamic here that you're talking about cuz you know for people that really want to succeed in business there's there's a different language that that is versus

01:03:50 - 01:04:41

yeah we're going to win it's going to be it's going to be excellent you're you're just setting your client up for failure and you're lying to them yeah exactly and I think that you know you need to be like really honest with them about um like I say to new Talent who sign all the time you know we're going to have rough periods like this is a relationship like we are going to have speed humps that we have to get over you're going to have the shits with me one day I'm going to have the shits with

01:04:15 - 01:05:21

you like we are in a very personal relationship um but we need to be able to have like open communication with one another and um I think also like be able to give each other Grace like I'm human I'm going to make a mistake you're going to make a mistake um but you know we need to have a level of like Grace with one another that that's going to happen and we learn from it and and we move on from it um and I find that you know I've had talent in the past where I haven't been given Grace um but they've expected

01:04:48 - 01:05:59

the grace and that's not going to work you can't have a one-sided relationship you're there and you're in it together and you're both achieving this goal together um and so if they're not willing to come in with that mindset it's probably you're probably not going to be happy cuz we were never going to make you happy you know now when it comes to the content creators right now a Hot Topic is but AI is coming to take us off oh my God AI what's your take on yeah the other day one of my agents

01:05:23 - 01:06:29

was like do we need to sign like an AI generated like like influencer a and I was like what like I was like what are you talking about no but they exist like they well I signed one for my book oh okay so my publisher was like we need you to sign this Clause that you did not write this with chat gbt or Ai and I was like why would I do that they're like a lot of people are doing it I'm like okay like yeah no companies are creating actual AI Clauses no like AI like humans like they're like

01:05:56 - 01:06:49

oh that's what's freaking me out yeah and I'm like no we're not signing what the [ __ ] we're not signing but we're not going to create an I like an AI people are asking you to influen yeah so that was sort of their idea but um I think that I think AI is great in a lot of ways and then I think it's not great in a lot of ways why do you think it's great and why do you think it's not great um I think it's great I mean I've only ever used AI for you know chat GPT

01:06:23 - 01:07:39

for an example um for like efficiency reasons and the business I think it's amazing um I don't think AI is great when it comes to replacing creativity um or like original thinking I think that that is always in my opinion I think that's always going to be needed I just don't see how you get that same human touch um when you see like a like a brand creative or a a brand campaign or whatever it might be I think that you need that almost like human emotion in it um I mean I could be

01:07:01 - 01:08:10

wrong like I don't know 10 years from now we could be having a very different conversation but um I think that there is even in like even in copywriting like I know people like oh just use chat GPT to do your copy for I don't know the campaign launch or whatever it is and and yeah I can see how that works for some people but I think for you know particularly would see clear like we have tried that before and it just doesn't it doesn't have that like feel to the brand yes yeah and so um I hate

01:07:36 - 01:08:34

that like copywriters are getting replaced by chat GPT because I'm like you're missing that Essence yeah especially when it's someone like that super cringe that has no appreciation for creativity doesn't understand the nuances or art form and they're just like yeah I'll just get this robot to do the thing I want it to do and then let's just Mass Market to me the tor artist in me is like gross like you're so lame you're so uncool you're so gross but the other part of me like the the methodical

01:08:05 - 01:08:54

like let's get like business's succeed part of me is like let's leverage it and I can understand because we're getting a lot of inquiries from clients like how do we leverage AI can we create these fake influences and blah blah blah and I'm just hitting him back with in service of what yeah they're like oh we want to get more attention in service of what to get more sales okay is that a good brand move and some of them are like yeah we want more money I'm like okay fair sure I do think that AI at the

01:08:29 - 01:09:31

moment it's like this buzz it is Buzzy yeah it's buzzing and I think people are like oh man I need to jump on the AI train because if I don't I'm going to get left behind and um I don't think that's the case I think like let it let it go for a bit and let's just see let's see where it goes yeah cuz we don't know where it's going to go I think that there's there's um some some stats and some some figures that we're trying to really look at and and we're trying to

01:09:00 - 01:09:57

be like really honest about it and and it terrifies me because the torted artist is like oh man like creativity is cool yeah um but then also like some of I think the upand cominging things that people can look at is like um CR critical thinking and like hard skills yeah that sure Chi could could say them but can you create a a high touch business or a high touch experience that's very human experience-led there's going to be a couple years at least where it's going to be very difficult for a to do that

01:09:29 - 01:10:21

sure can write copy sure can spin up design but I think what you're going to see as a trend I believe if I can predict that I'm looking around a corner successfully is you're going to see a massive pivot for Brands trying to create experience yeah because if it becomes the mainstream thing that everyone's just using chaty BT then the big brands are certainly going to Pivot yeah cuz they're always going to look for the next thing and I think the next thing is like something that's in

01:09:55 - 01:10:50

insatiable experiential yeah I think a lot of Brands um I was reading an article uh recently actually about um you know brands are really trying to think of how they can give back more to their customers and in what way and what's that experience look like um and it you know it needs to go beyond just I don't know like come to the store and get a free coffee and have like a branded coffee cart it now needs to be like this you know experience for the customer um and I think that's because

01:10:23 - 01:11:33

it's just become so competitive in that landscape now um and back to you know what we were talking about about you know branding and having your unique selling point in your Niche those are the brands that are going to go the distance um they might not be Buzzy right now but I guarantee you they will still be around in 10 15 years time and that's when they might hit their stride um but I think that the brands that are kind of like taking off right now it's they've managed to jump on TR so they've managed to

01:10:57 - 01:11:59

become Buzzy in this in this moment but they haven't actually built out the brand element yeah and I think the brand will always go the distance I agree like you've got these giant marketing or brand incumbent in different industries that are like dominating but I am seeing a lot of people pop up and have rapid success because they're just like way more clued in yeah and I think sometimes these massive Enterprises just get slow and they just get out of touch um and there is an opportunity I think wealth's

01:11:29 - 01:12:23

going to exchange a lot of hands I don't think there ever been so so many opportunities for Content creators to get out there and have opportunities because never has there been so much money getting pumped into this industry yeah yeah there's so much I you know um as I said before like each year I'm like is this going to be the year that it slows down is this going to be the quarter no I think it's going to go up yeah and and it's not like we we recently beat our sales Target for the

01:11:56 - 01:13:12

quarter by 15% um and I wasn't expecting that um and I think it just shows that brands are still heavily investing into um this industry but I think that there I think where I have seen a bit of a pivot or A Change Is there being more Mindful and selective of who they're investing in um and it's no longer just his money for every everyone and and let's just see if it works it's now I think more thought out um and strategic and you know I've even had the agents tell me that there's been Brands

01:12:34 - 01:13:21

where the brand will be in their like marketing meeting discussing how they're going to bring this campaign to life with influencer marketing and they'll just dial in one of my agents on the spot hey we're doing this meeting this is what we're thinking we're thinking about your talent like what do you think like do you think this would work for them do you think we should tailor the Bri like the campaign a bit more so I think brands are also really now coming to the table with more

01:12:57 - 01:13:47

of like a collaborative approach totally we're seeing we're seeing so much of that yeah I think I think if if I would to take my clientele into account right now they're becoming ever more increasingly dependent upon creative Dynamic thinking yes and the Market's getting crazy everyone's getting a little badshit out there and and the companies are reaching out to us and going we just want to know what you think yeah and I've never had so many phone calls texts and emails where big

01:13:22 - 01:14:24

companies are like just inviting like people that run half a billion dollar comp like just want you in the room to think with us and I think critical thinking Dynamic thinking is becoming really important right now like Competitive Edge right they just they just want Dynamic people thinking and I think that never have you seen so many creative types in boardrooms yeah right you I've never seen such a mash of business and creativity because now they have to coexist do they do they um do you think they're working well together

01:13:53 - 01:14:51

not right now no it's almost like a ter dating like speed dating thing I think what's happening is you're getting these massive Brands trying to like stumble into creativity with their big paychecks and they're trying to be involved and they're trying to have their team make decisions in these meetings they have no right making decisions and you know Heart Take I think is like the the third generation companies are my favorite okay yeah who's like an example they're difficult oh yeah because you've got

01:14:22 - 01:15:22

someone who's at the helm who's the generation ified to make any changes cuz usually the first generation business owner is like the Pioneer the gun ho let's throw the wall figure it out the second person goes thanks Dad or Mom um now I'm just going to maximize the capital and expand on this then third generation's like don't change anything yeah so I love those because they're really tough and it's really fun when they start to realize and just take a deep breath because the dynamic of

01:14:52 - 01:15:50

creativity when people get it m they just let you take control it oh my God absolutely and it just takes maybe a couple months for them to go okay clearly you know what you're talking about but that's what's getting me uh in such a growth trajectory with the business yeah is they just want you to consult your creative expertise that's amazing yeah Morgan always says to me it's um she always feels like it's data vers brand yes and she's always like if I say something to her like she'll pitch

01:15:21 - 01:16:24

me a creative concept whatever it is and I'll tell her like okay but that's not but like where okay how are we going to sell product on this or what do you um like I'll tell her to kind of justify the creative and she'll say to me she'll be like well I just it's just a feeling that I have and I'm like hun I'm not going to [ __ ] spend x amount on your feelings like give me the data um and I think that that's where probably you're seeing like where they're gonna have to try and come

01:15:52 - 01:16:56

together yeah of like we need to hit these sales targets but we need your creativity to kind of come in in a way where the consumer is going to understand because there's some creative ideas where I'm like what the [ __ ] does that even mean yeah um so also coming in from that of like making it also digestible think and trying to work together it's a tough it's a tough question to ask my favorite question to ask like my heroes like polisher Marty new Chris doe like all these characters that I'm like these

01:16:25 - 01:17:23

guys are the Geniuses my favorite question that always pisses them off in the middle of like their sessions is I'm like hey guys what's the difference between marketing and branding oh and just their face goes white and they're like let me come back to that um and I've had that happen so many times and Christo I think had a really great answer to it but I think what what I'm seeing now is that um the old God and the first third second generation business owners are now coming to the revelation we

01:16:54 - 01:17:58

definitely need creative oh yeah like they've acknowledged it in the last two or three years yeah then they're trying to do it themselves on chat gbt failing terribly and now they're reaching out yeah yeah for sure I think that um you know Morgan she was um she was the art director at PE Nation for 5 years and she's recently gone out on her own as a freelancer and she has just been in unated with work um Brands wanting rebranding they're wanting her to come on as like a creative director in like a

01:17:25 - 01:18:29

freelance type of role um and I think that's to your point I think brands are realizing who are we what is our brand what is our unique selling point what is our aesthetic what's our style like how do we penetrate this Market cuz like yeah this worked up until now but now like our customer is wanting more of a connection with us as a brand and how do we bring that to life cuz the digital advertising era is coming to a close it still exists uh-huh but it was potent five years ago oh my God you put 10

01:17:58 - 01:18:50

grand on an ad definitely make money 100% now you can put 10 grand on an ad and finger cross someone even make return yeah um man I keep talk about this all day this get me fired up but I I guess in conclusion there I think yeah creativity and business need to come together um there there is a soul for it it is complicated I probably need another pod and you and I could probably unpack this together but I think I think um if I would to leave that on anything it's it's they have to work together

01:18:24 - 01:19:26

they do right now you have to get good at both you have to be wildly creative and ruthlessly commercial and you have to be really relationship oriented if you can't get that Dynamic to work in today's market that we're going into you're [ __ ] oh yeah you're going to get left behind for sure for sure okay so a few last questions here yeah uh this is a tough one oh Jesus um when this is all said and done how do you want to be remembered in business or as a person in business I that's that's a really

01:18:55 - 01:20:00

interesting question I never thought about that what's the honest you were going to say something yeah what's your honest like just did that just to like I don't know I don't think you buy time I think I think you're I think you're suppressing something what is it are we in therapy no um I would say that I would want to be remembered as someone who was an expert in this field and led and led the industry in this market because I do believe and people might hear this and be like cat you're [ __ ]

01:19:27 - 01:20:42

full of [ __ ] but I do believe that I was one of the first agencies to start really taking influencer marketing seriously because I had no one to look to when I was building the business there was no one that I could like what I wanted to create I didn't have any well not in the Australian Market that I could look to and go oh that's who I want to replicate there was no format there was no format and so I would want be remembered as that person who created um an agency that was Boutique in their

01:20:04 - 01:21:07

service offering and really treated influencer marketing as a personal brand and and strategic development not just someone who had a following and you put a post up that's how I guess I'd want to be remembered you want to be seen as a Pioneer rule breaker and um and also like someone that's like a relationship Builder what's a quote or a mantra that you've carried with you on this journey that you wished everyone listening to this would immediately Implement work hard and be

01:20:41 - 01:21:54

kind yeah yeah I think that there is um I think people think that to be a business owner or to be a leader you have to have like a harshness to yourself and um I think what I'm proud of is when people meet me they always think they're always so shocked because they're like oh my God I thought you were going to be like really you know not warm and like have a wall up and kind of be like really direct and scary and they're really always shocked at how like warm I am and you know I don't take things too

01:21:17 - 01:22:26

seriously and I really like that you're super chill yeah and I think that um I think it just goes to show that you can work really hard and be smart and you know build a great business and you can also still be really nice to people yeah yeah 100% yeah I don't like that got to be Cutthroat and you've got to yeah [ __ ] people over and you be boss [ __ ] and like ruin people no no I hate that uh when you wake up in the morning what gets you fired up for the day I think just the I think the the possibilities of what

01:21:57 - 01:23:08

could happen that day like I think as a business owner and you probably feel the same way it's like every day is so different and I've had days where things have happened that I didn't even know or preempt were going to happen and they have just changed my business overnight or they have led me to that next big opportunity and I think every day I wake up with a sense of oh my God what's going to happen today um um and that excites me because it's not a mundane it's not predictable and I really like living in

01:22:33 - 01:23:59

that unpredictability because that's when all of the really fun stuff happens you like spontaneity yeah if things feel too comfortable I'm like something's wrong there needs to be some chaos where's the Chaos s like I'm talking to myself that sounds like me um what's a door that you need to kick in right now to go to the next level in your business for MGMT I need I need that one big win in the US for the agency to be recognized I would say um I don't know what that is yet I

01:23:20 - 01:24:38

don't know if it's signing a big US influence I don't know if it's um drumming up PR I don't know if it's Landing like a big deal with an existing talent that we can then promote and leverage off the back of I need something in that realm to kick that door in for the US um and then I think for C clear for c c we definitely need that that big win that brings in that you know big cash flow for the the business that's kind of where where and I I can know it's coming

01:23:58 - 01:25:13

I can feel it and that's that's what we need in order to unlock the next phase or potential of the business fantastic and if anyone here is able to do any of that where can they find you they can find me personally on Instagram at cat Moses and you can also visit either one of our websites mgmt.com or cc.com fantastic we'll put those links in the descriptor this has been a very fun conversation so fun I love how warm and chill and fun and weird you are weird yeah a little weirdness there it's just

01:24:36 - 01:25:34

cool man and I think there's like a nice Dynamic of like an appreciation for art and creativity but then like an also like really good business Acumen yeah you've got both yeah I I really respect art and marketing and creativity and I think it um I think they go hand inand I don't think you can have one without the other it especially in your especially in every going forward um this was a fun conversation we definitely would love to have you back and um yeah thanks for joining us thank you so much that was

01:25:05 - 01:25:11

fun [Music]