The Art of Storytelling in Jewelry Branding | Kerryn Langer

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oh my God this is dire no one's ever going to start a business listening to this Karen Langer is the founder and managing director of arms of Eve a jewelry and accessories brand that channels self-expression I literally live by that and I feel like yes this is how we run arms of Eve starting life at the markets arms of Eve now boasts celebrity customers and five stores across premium locations in Australia Karen continues to lead the arms of Eve brand from strength to strength now you've recently striked a cord with

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some celebrities be who you are authentically who you are and just kind of experiment and have fun with what you wear I don't know it's difficult for me cuz I'm like thinking another thoughts I mean literally I think I need SMS you know let's be real no it's hard this is why I'm like so loving what you're saying and relating because I have to really think about it as a high performance npple team in my mind I'm often terrified I'm always a bit scared at the same time excited and

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scared I mean that's business do you enjoy firing people no I hate it we recently had someone say depends on the day and we'll like get out like immediately like done like we do not want to have this person in the team how do you define success for yourself and your business and are they the same [Music] I would like to welcome Karen Langer to the agency podcast thanks for having me welcome that was a great welcome you're welcome it was fun to hear it thank you and I was saying earlier I love your

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outfit very bright very vibrant and you have a fantastic personality got a ton of energy and as soon as you came into the office it felt like tornado was blown to this place not the first person to say that my brother-in-law literally calls me the hurricane carry so there you go it's on Brands so you describe each piece of your jewelry uh as essentially a love letter to the Modern Woman anytime you get a gift um especially jewelry that's like a Keepsake from anyone their storytelling and love and connection but um I think

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it's also just about a gift for yourself and an expression of self and uniqueness um so I look at it more like that that's a beautiful way of looking at it and it's it's more poetic and you know I think when you look at the world of jewelry you know many people can say that it's all kind of been done but would you say that there's um a bit of a revolution in the jewelry space as as we're going through everything's been done yeah um I I think it's the way you stack and style

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the way you put it together the way you um express yourself and how you choose your pieces and how you put them together like that's the way of expression that's the uniqueness that's the individuality um I think jewelry has become more popular over the last few years maybe Co put us back on that map because we were all like little screened and all you could see was like your face and your ears and your necklace I mean so I think it's just I think it's a really great way to express who you are

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and like separate and you know individuate a bit I I certainly noticed that like um you know in in particular the Gen Z Market you know and Tik talk and things of that nature like people are accessorizing a lot I remember when I was growing up in like the you mid 2000s like we weren't as teenagers accessorizing whereas now it seems to be more of a cultural thing it is maybe we're dressing more simple and basic and we're just kind of yeah just trying to stand out or you know again just like

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express yourself in a different way and experiment and figure it out there's bags and sunnies yeah there's all different ways to kind of put you know change your look yeah and have a little fun with it and so for you why why jewelry like how did you end up in the market how did you end up put pulling all this together I mean Joy is Joy was always my passion my background is fashion um but really I've always been wearing I mean Aeron husband who's now partner in the business as well always

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laughed at it he literally couldn't even see my forearms I had always I mean I've I'm always adorned uh I think so it was very natural for me to go into jewelry clothing I mean and then the Practical commercial side that it was that it was one size and that I wasn't doing sizing anymore so I was in traditional Wholesale in La well I've been designing many years moved to LA started another company there which was nwar Marina wall um and that one the sizing the wholesale the whole that whole traditional fashion

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business just wasn't really it was too many rules too many processes money back and forth the time You' you know lead times lead times for production lead times for finances just exhausting so um when we moved back to Australia I cut up all the material that I had in La the marina War into scarves and ponchos okay which was the beginning of accessories it was the way of kind of using the material in a um smart way to kind of use the maximum amount of Midge because it's all squares and um

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triangles and then I would accessorize the ponchos and scarves with pom poms and tassels and it also would therefore appeal to like a larger market and it was you know no one you didn't have to be small medium large everyone could wear it it was another way of expressing and warmth and travel and all the things that I loved bought it back to Australia sold it out at the first Etsy market and that was the first Market I ever did and that was really um reassuring because well that's a that's a unique thing

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because I think whenever I go to a market you just see so much product and not much of it's moving to to so to be able to sustain a business and sell out of the market it especially because the US was quite challenging to sell this material was a Marino wo it's a washable baby wool and I used to have to call it the Australian C cashmere used to have to kind of like you know reframe to retweet kind of make it more palatable and accessible for that market whereas here they like just got it Australia was just like yeah we

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know Marina W it's washable it's amazing it's soft and it's one and like you're doing like that's such a great way to use the material in a warmth you know its properties Wicks moisture warms it's so you know so it was just like a really um that really started the whole my it was like yes that's it it's accessories and it fits all wom and I can and I was listening to my customer what they were looking for and wanting and that's really where arms of Eve started because

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I mean it's always started Within Me and the love of jewelry but it also started with like easy to sell one size um and coming from the states although I was at the markets with my customers we were always we were always going to do an online business I was always going direct to Consumer to kind of miss that whole wholesale tricky timeline pot so um yeah it was so you wanted to create and get it straight to the customer direct to the consumer absolutely at what point did you start to think about

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branding I mean branding is an interesting I think your customers create your brand and it was so authentically me that that became I wasn't really thinking about brand I was just being and doing what I love doing I was with my customers every weekend at the markets I was seeing what they liked what they wanted more of I was enjoying stacking and styling them I was getting ideas I was experimenting so they really were the ones who were creating my brand for me and then obviously that got big

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then the iconic found us at the markets um as our first Marketplace and that put us on a map on a wider scale um and fed back into my online business so then I was learning more about they wanted bags and hats and then I was like cool I kept feeding jewelry onto that too so I think your Market tells you your consumer tells you they make the brand they create it that's a fascinating take and I would agree with that I think there's so many stories of people I got in the fashion cuz you know whether it was

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Ralph Lauren doing ties in New York because people were tired of the same old pattern um you were engaging with your community and H how are you unpacking what they wanted like because I I guess a lot of people could go to the markets they could try and start a business but they're not really maybe picking up on the clues that they need to pick up on like how how were you able to get into I guess the flow state of the right creative to create the right type of connection it's a great question

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I mean I think I was always doing what what was authentic to myself so what I was loving um and I'm I've always loved that and that's why I've always been in the industry in fashion and design and I think they were loving what I was doing and then I was just watching oh that needed to be longer that needed to be shorter I was just tweaking it as I was going oh you know what they're looking for more um pieces that didn't have dang you know like tassels or dangle that was irritating to some customers and some

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want pieces that I was kind of adjusting and tweaking as I was going with them of like and hearing their feedback and you've got to know there's some point where you like listen and some point where you like like you don't you know what I mean you take like maybe the Brand's not for you yeah yeah that's that's cool and it's not for you but and also was experimenting a lot I had so many different products so there was always like something for everyone which Still Remains the Same today there's

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like we have such a huge Market we spend like yeah it's multigenerational really you know because there is something for everyone even if it's not in the draw space it's in the other accessory space did you pull from somewhere like were there certain designers that you looked up to were there places that you were drawing you know inspiration or ideas from I think travel has always been where I drew draw continuously inspiration so not really designers I think it's just by Nature travel cultures you know India

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barley in the early days Thailand wherever I am I find it so inspiring and its colors and textures and um that's really where my inspiration comes from than from other designers although maybe subconsciously you see things you love it you tweak it I'm sure that's part of it too were you looking at things visually like when whenever I travel overseas I I immediately noticed that there's patterns with how people tend to wear outfits and their body gestures and the way they speak is is so different

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and I find that fascinating when you go overseas to somewhere like Bley or India do you tend to go to a certain place to try to get this type of inspiration I don't try to go I think it's just where you are you're seeing it all the time it's like in you know it's yes I'm very visual so I notice and I'm inspired by all the details all the time time whether it's architect like architecturally or it's materials or prints and colors or food love food there's so much design in food you know

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so it's it's everywhere really and then when you're I guess maneuvering out of the markets you get found by the iconic which um is an incredible opportunity for them to go hey we want to host your product what was it that they saw in what you were doing that they thought was so good that they wanted to put it on their massive platform I think I mean I think they were filling a gap to be honest like a category that's for real you know just to be very honest I think I mean maybe they saw the whole package

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and like there was always such energy around the market store and what I was doing so that's always attractive when you see a lot of people having like having fun hanging out really kind of genuinely shopping together so I think they're probably attracted to that um energy and then they were like oh we have a gap in hats and we love your visors that were from barley or we love your hats or they were looking at categories that they needed more of and so because Marketplace you can load your

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own product onto the platform I would give them what they needed and create more of that so it was like a hat category or a bad category and I would just like cheekily kind of add more all my accessories on at the same time and just kind of without permission you're like without permiss yeah just kind of see like absolutely and then I would like apologize later if it came up but I was just like I'm going to test this yeah so very cheeky of you but very cheeky but amazing and amazing of them

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to allow me to have this like platform to um you know experiment and to be who we are today really so I'm very grateful at what point do you feel like the rubber really hit the road and the brand started to accelerate cuz now you have five stores you ship globally was there a certain turning point where things started to get really serious I mean I'm going to say Co which was interesting it was a good well um my husband at the husband at the time my husband's still my husband but he was in experiential

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marketing and that was an opportunity or well he's that was the first kind of Market to kind of I mean there was no kind of events or anything in that space so he came full-time into the business which he's always wanted to do we've always worked very well together and he's more marketing um advertising is organizational more grounding and systems so I think when Aaron came into the business that's when things got a little and at the right we were just ready at the right time because we'd

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always had a director consumer we'd always had a Shopify right that's something we always wanted to do coming from the states and being you know we were like Amazon next day delivery like eggs diapers whatever you needed you know so we came from that like when online was everything to us we moved back to Australia we're like it's all in the online we need directed consumer so the business was built online I would go to the markets to find my consumer and understand what they needed and wanted

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and then iconic kind of got me more used to the logistics of Pick and Pack but Co was when everyone went online and and there and we were just ready so it was just the right time and place and then we could just and then having Aaron in the business someone who was just more systems and logical and more that brain could just put everything in like build the tech tech stack to kind of get us to where we are today that would be a massive Advantage having someone that's kind of your ying to your yang business

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wise yes yeah and many everything many would many would find it a nightmare to to work with their partner what that too yeah it is sometimes absolutely I mean we're both um strong you know alare individuals who are passionate um but I guess the beauty is the common goal we on the same vision we both love working we both love creating and systems and people so the vision is like I think that kind of United us and is the success of the brand but it's challenging do you guys have like unspoken

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rules we blur them all the time you know we have great therapists we have we really know how to um get back on track you know we yeah we work at it always but I think we also have a lot of fun with it I think what it's all about and we stay we stay I think at the beginning it was just tricky you know because you got to find what you're but also our lanes are kind of obvious we know where we're best at and we let each other be and we trust each other yeah we talking about trust like we really trust each other to do our

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thing we had um recently Raquel and Adam bis separately on the pot and it was interesting cuz Raquel is this wild creative and she created the brand who is Elijah yeah of course and um she's super creative and her partner is super numbers oriented and you know a similar thing at the beginning they were trying to figure out like who's responsible for what and at some point in the business it's so good to have the person who's like all about the numbers and someone out there that's all about the creative

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especially in fashionate luxury yeah it's great yes you need I mean Aon actually had to learn the numbers so he's quite a creative as well but definitely more systems and um organized so he's just learned numbers so I think he someone had to you know and it wasn't going to be me now with the creativity and and how you curated the brand you said that at the markets you were able to really experience a dialogue with the customer yes and then you were able to take that information and then curate

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the product offering that you were creating do you think having actually being face to face at a market interacting back and forth with the clients gave you an advantage over those that just pounced onto Drop Shipping 100% absolutely and it's also the reason why I'm back into retail is kind of like a brick and morar like Market I don't have to worry about winds and Knots and weather anymore I now have like you know you're like is the tent going to blow away yeah no dude no like seriously like

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25 knots I'm like not going I'm not going that's going to be disaster the tent's flying my Jewel's flying the winds so this is but yes back and like retail is it's the same as the market it's even the way we lay out our jewelry it's kind of accessible for people to try to feel and it gives us feedback I mean every week the girls in the the re my retail staff will give me like what they're loving what they're having issues worth and I read every single note because that's everything is what

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your your customers are your brand if I didn't have them I wouldn't be here so I'm really um customer Centric and what they need and what and how I can solve their problems and help and kind of also show them the way forward as well in a new way you guys are absolutely crushing it like and one thing I really admire and um something I think you do phenomenally well is actually your model curation the stylization of the composition of the photography and then just the color and the pops of light and

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the summertime feel obviously you've really dialed in on a Feeling what is that that you're trying to co-create or co-author with your with your audience it's interesting to think about it like that cuz it's also so natural it's like what I love and who I am it's summer it's Beach it's lifestyle like that whole lifestyle of following the Sun and just having fun and there's always like two models or three it's friendship it's connection it's positive it's you know

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just having fun with what you're wearing how how you know how you're styling and stacking it's I mean it's yeah I think it's beautiful and it's very curated and I find this Stu fascinating like for example I I don't know if you've seen that documentary with RF Len yeah and he had this um you know this approach to model curation where he was doing stuff that was edgy like he was one of the first people to use um a black male model up on billboards in New York City

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and he was you know one of the first people to really bring in the no makeup androgynous look for the women do you have conversations internally about like how do we make sure we're curating the right visual aesthetic to create a mood or Tempo out there in the market I mean I definitely meet the I think in creating the models it's like not even what you look like although they're all magnificent and beautiful it's really their energy it's really their personality um and if I've ever not done

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a casting you can tell like I'm not happy on the day it's like an easygoing you know the now from my team is like har you you have to cast every single you know I'm like oh no I know because it's really just that's the even the culture of the business it's easygoing it's collaborative it's we you know it's we all we all in we hustling we're moving fast I mean Felix knows we always moving very yeah it's a I think it's positivity it's we're all in we're wearing many

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hats we're working together so it comes from the models it comes from who they are as personalities and I want their personality to shine out in the shoot I'm not trying to make them anything else I just want them to be them and have fun and that is the brand like be who you are authentically who you are and just kind of experiment and have fun with what you wear so when you're thinking about a shoot planning a shoot you know interviewing the models yeah what's your thought process what do you

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what are you trying to um create as the energy as the feeling like how do you make sure a shoot goes well cuz I get clients come to us all the time and they're like we went to this other agency and the shoots awful and the models were weird and how do you make sure that that works cuz it's so many things happening you've got makeup you've got hair you've got lighting you've got composition outfits angles it's it's so much to think about I know I basically do it all no you've

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um yeah you got to have a great team as EV as for everything you know it's all about the team and people you trust and the photographer who understands you and gets you and knows your angles you they know I'm going to want to go close in on skin and then out for energy and for Vibe and lifestyle so it's the right team of photographers again you got to meet the models to have that as the right aspect because they are everything they the energy of the day I need to come with the right energy to make sure

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that the shoot's smooth and moving well um my team who helped me are amazing so they know we're moving quick we're changing quick we're styling we try plan I think planning is very important we have lots of food to make a shoot great um it's always around ocean and sun and Beach and pool or it's texture and interesting backgrounds but it can't be too busy because jewelry is so beauty that you got to go so close or accessories are quite hard hard to shoot yeah Jew is an interesting one cuz it's

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close up on the skin it's so we want to create energy but you also want to show your stack or you know what you're wearing so also experience has taught us how to do that better and better but it's like once you find your team and know you know then you you all know where each other it's like you know what Lane to stay in and yeah get into like a little beehive Flow State you do you're like okay you and this you know and we it's yes it's taken many many many shoots but we do them so often and try

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to have fun in them like that's what it's about like it is stressful because you have a certain amount to get done in a certain day but they've all got the same energy and it comes from the models and it comes from my team and it's just the right attitude I think it's so when curating models like what's a red flag and a green flag for you I mean it's smile it's personality it's you are they easy to talk to it's really just beyond any I mean first you go to look at some

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like physical things of like do they have the right piercings you know for like an earring stack so there are like requirements that you have to have but really it's just a personality and like if you if I'm going to get on and engage and they're just willing to move well and to um also just shine in their own way like Express themselves like go for it do you find when you're going back over the photography like how how do you tell if it's a good shot or not like how does the how exactly does the energy

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come through the distillation into like a flat you know still image like how does it I mean I I can feel it without even looking at the image if this is a good shoot really yes because you can sense from the models or from the energy of the photographer the makeup like of you know of if everyone's having a good time so if you're having a good time that's going to come through and what you look like and what you feel like you can be more relaxed more natural your Gods down like I'm I'm pretty intense

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and I run that shoot you know like like hardcore but but no one should be feeling that they should just be like being them and I give them that free like everyone the free reign to do that but I don't know if I'm answering that question no you answer this perfectly and I think that this is what my team and I here at a agency rival kind of joke is like Brandon e it's it's hard to explain branding it's hard to explain a feeling it's a feeling it's a weird thing cuz like we'll do workshops with

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clients and we'll say to them how do you want your clients to feel and they're like I mean how do you comfortable confident summer fun like holiday Vibes you know summer a h holiday vibe in your brand there's holiday there's that's what is holiday that's like relax that's enjoyment that's Community friends connection water ocean I was definitely getting like a like an in an international feel definitely yeah like a well traveled woman yes kind of kind of energy yo my name is Dane Walker and

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I am disgustingly obsessed with branding I had to figure out a way to do branding every single day so I branded myself then I started my agency rival a vision and hired a team of branding Mavericks hellbent on creating Brands so good that they'll make your competition their pants so here's the thing you want your brand to go viral and rival makes Brands go viral that's why we're offering you a free 30-minute branding session to get an expert's opinion if you don't believe me the proof is in the

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pudding here's what clients have to say about rival rival is trusted by Brands like nutrition Warehouse light my bricks and Bo so if you want to absolutely smoke the competition and make your brand go viral hit the link below and book in your free 30-minute branding session yeah so I guess if you look at a creative pursuit of I'm trying to build a brand and for those that are like I'm trying to create my thing so you know how you see like a Famous Brand like um you know Zara or you know you could take

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a Nike you could take a um boohoo.com you could take maybe white fox brands in particularly fashion and luxury seemingly have a kind of like a like their own concept their own sense of taste like if you look at Tiffany and code yes we have a taste okay so so when it comes to taste for you how do you define what that is and how do you quite like how do you know you're on it or you're off Brands I mean my team keep me on track as well because I can go a little rogue and you know like and they can goog you wake up

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in the mood you're like I feel pissed off today I'm going to make it real no I think it's because it is such a self-expression of who I am honestly like I think it's um it's got to feel like me I've got to like it I've got to love it even though I'm trying to um trying to appease a lot of people and like you know like I have a large market so I want my 18yearold my 25y old my 40-year-old but at each piece I'm designing or curating I want them I've got to love it and I've got to connect

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to it in some way even if I don't wear it um and so and the feeling of it has to be I mean yeah that I first you got to love it that it's interesting that or styled back with something that's unique and interesting that I can see somebody wearing it I have someone in mind and the and again in that whole energy it's like fun and it's classic with a little bit of a Twist that affordable luxury it's looks high-end it looks quality it's not everywhere um it's Unique it's a little

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bit different yeah it seems to me like not too high brow no not too affordable it's kind of in this sweet spot between it's a little bit more playful but it's still got really great quality and beautiful metals and um and it's got like longevity like it's know yeah you're creating these beautiful pieces that are ornate they're a little bit playful they're not super serious they're not super elegant like you certainly created your own your own little world it's like you're creating

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your own little set your own producing your own little movie um now you're going into retail which is you know I guess if we think back to U when we're in lockdowns everyone was saying retail is dead I know right at what point did you decide to go back into retail and what was your opinion and reason for you know launching your own set of stores and how do you go through that process well I think right after Co we had an opportunity well I wanted to get I mean my husband was like we are not going

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into retail eron was like that is we are online he was so hellbent on being online um and I really missed the customer and missed that feedback and I thought it's I think it's really important for customers to be able to feel and touch and see size and you know really kind of understand the product so I missed retail and being with the customer so we had this opportunity in Bondi where there was this little store wara Avenue where a friend was a beautician and she was like do you want to share the rent I'll take the back you

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take the front um and I'm like and it was a great rant and just a great opportunity to experiment again and see what retail was like and that was really successful and did really well and that was the beginning of retail and then we started again with mosman like a totally different community and saw where that went and then Westfield actually came to us really yeah I thought they went to everyone and I was a little distrusting talking about TR like what do you guys want from me I'm like yeah do you go to

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everyone like what do you want um but it was an amazing opport opportunity and once I Saw the space they were thinking I was like yes I couldn't stop thinking of it so um so it was natural as well how it's been evolving and growing and because it's doing so well it's just like the obvious growth at the moment the thing I would say here though is like so many people try to get into jewelry or they try to get into beauty or they try to get into fashion you know you had so much um attention when you

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were doing the markets and then when you open this first door you know to get approach by westfields and also previously approached by the iconic what was it that was creating a buzz for these big Brands to approach you like surely you had a knack you had a talent you had a taste a reason to pull them in gu yeah I guess I mean I think so I'm sure yes so uh I think it was the curation of um product that I'm producing and curating and the way I'm mixing it and styling it and the energy

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and that feeling I think is coming through in my campaigns in my photo shoots um it's exciting it's fun it's playful it's also looks beautiful on high end it looks more expensive than it is but it is also quality I think people can feel that and sense it I think people can feel authenticity as well um and maybe that's what's just attractive to a customer but the product yeah uh I think they were noticing that the mix of product that I was doing was working yeah you created

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your own style your own stack and even more so we moving into new categories and that's what's fun about retail that I can experiment with new categories we have Resort Wear our hats do really well and our sunnies are beautiful polarized you know so it gave me because I can't stop I mean I'm just constantly creating all the time so it gave me opportunities to keep moving and keep going and just seeing what my customers were liking and also in photo shoots it was a great opportunity to put everything together

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of how I see the vision and the lifestyle of like summer and travel and beauty and yeah with the retail setting what were some of the challenges getting into retail uh was rent cheap because everyone was not wanting to go back into it like what was that experience like because setting up at the markets is one thing going into retail you're signing you know multiple contracts it's terrifying like can we can we afford ter yeah I'm I'm often terrified I'm always a bit scared at the same time excited

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and scared I mean that's business um nervous all the time but also grateful and taking that risk and going for it yeah you sign long leases like 5 years it's intimidating um and you just hope it's going to work but also there's no plan B so you just make sure it does work yeah and yeah you you're kind of against the wall like going do this this once I've signed it's like let's go I'm going to make sure um we make this work so but had that testing ground with like the

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little bonda store gives you enough confidence to then take another little risk and that was mosman and another you know so it all builds with each other and you get that confidence and that reassurance like it's going to you know it's going to be all right and looking back at the last few years obviously you've now got five stores yes and was was there a certain point where you you know felt like the business could have collapsed it could have went bankrupt did you have any Seasons where

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it got a little a little shaky there's like always I mean we're grateful not really because it is trans seasonal it's not like fashion where there's like really like summer you know it's trans seasonal uh there's always someone following the sign at some time of the year um I think you always little know when it is winter and it's like quieter but I think that's your time to kind of be internal and get structure and systems into place so when things get busier that you prepared so I keep

00:32:08 - 00:33:09

reminding myself and self soothing you know that you know this is a great time to sort of get all your systems in place and work on training and work on I I always say kazen is like small improvements all the time like Toyota Toyota well Aaron uh worked on Toyota before you came to Arms of Eve so he was working t for many years and he used to do all their like create you know used to work on their experiential marketing what was doing car shows or I don't know like the activations all the activations

00:32:39 - 00:33:31

so the way I understand exper experiential marketing is they'll have a budget there'll be a car show what's what's Toyota going to do yes how do we coming out how do we activate how what's a creative cool way to kind of set up get some celebrities and some influences make cont sets and amazing so you know I often hear him you know talk about kette and I love loved it it like literally self soothed me I was like small improvements all the time and that's literally my business it's like done is

00:33:04 - 00:34:04

better than perfect just do it and then Ken keep improving as you go and I think that's really being like the ethos of the business do you think that's what trips most people up when they try to build an e-commerce business a retail business they're just either focused on taking no action because they're trying to make it perfect or do you think it's more they don't know what actions to take I I mean I think it's both honestly but I mean and if you just went done is better than perfect if you just did it

00:33:35 - 00:34:26

you'll just kind of figured it as you go and then one action is better than no action and through doing any action you start learning and tweaking and gaining insight and getting better and better and better even if it's incremental and you only see it later it's and I think it's it's a it's a great model and I understand that at Toyota they have a rule where that anyone in the company at any level whether you're the cleaner you're a managing director you're a

00:34:00 - 00:35:05

mechanic on the floor um if you have an idea on how to optimize yes anything anywhere um the CEO wants to know about it yes um you can pitch it to them and they if they believe it's going to make a 1% Improvement yes to your compartment in the factory they will implement it love it exactly I literally live by that my entire team is on it we're all across it and I listen and I feel like yes this is how we run arms of like one like every we've super collaborative everyone if you have any idea how to make

00:34:33 - 00:35:25

something better systems from because we do pick and pack all inhouse too so it's you know we have the warehouse right next to us we're all like one space and we're just constantly working on improving and making 1% better on on in every aspect of the business what are some of the 1% that shocked you the reaction that they got with the audience or the impact it had on the business I mean nothing's such a big shock 1% is like over time becomes a bigger difference so but there's definitely

00:34:59 - 00:35:52

things like barcoding our warehouse and scanning amazing the customer doesn't get to see but that was a wow for me that made more efficiency accuracy um or yeah like now you don't have to like cuz everything looks so similar so when you pick packing it's like difficult for you know you to tell the difference but if it's scanned and then pck pack there's less mistakes so there the customer has a better experience a better Journey they're not getting the wrong package or the wrong earring so

00:35:25 - 00:36:22

barcoding that's been amazing this year I mean every year there's so many things we just moved into a gorgeous Warehouse the way we've organized it there's we're always just 1% improving quality of materials for me that's been my biggest improvement over time it started in sterling silver with one Mar on plating go two Micon then brass you know and then now we're in stainless which is all recyclable recyclable and it's just an unbelievable you know the materials is

00:35:54 - 00:36:56

anti- tonish onee warranty you can swim you can so just keeping improving the you know all aspects design product processes yeah and then over time it becomes amazing and there's the wow but the wow is hard to see while you're doing it you can see it in hindsight but it's kind of hard to see it in the moment yeah cuz the moment so fleeting your brain's so busy you got so much to try to do so in in the details yeah color of the goal getting that right there's been so many aspects where

00:36:25 - 00:37:19

I self sooe with like okay czin more than improvements all the time you know just keep doing it and what's been the hardest thing do you think about retail that was the biggest challenge to overcome I think staff and training um you want the customer to experience the brand in the best way like they're representing brand so that's always tricky you've got new staff all the time and training them about product and styling and stacking and merching products quite challenging with jewelry

00:36:52 - 00:37:51

that's challenging um but nothing that can't be trained and taught with just time and patience and the right te team and they're doing an amazing job but yeah I think staff and hiring managing people Logistics running out of boxes you know like it's not just in your warehouse now you've got to kind of plan ahead totally makes sense there was um I was having a great conversation with my friend Josh recently and he was saying that McKenzie which is a big firm that it does a lot of investing they look for

00:37:22 - 00:38:33

three things when they invest in a company one is leadership how good quality is the leadership can they cost a vision can they rally the team can they excite and exude energy to his management can we make sure that what we want plays out through the entire chain lastly is forecasting and can we see around corners can we predict next month next season now when you're looking at your business from a very I guess I guess logistical structural perspective like that what do you look for like how do

00:37:58 - 00:38:57

you make sure your team are doing the right thing on the floor how do you manage that how do you get the culture in such a way so that they can carry the brand the way you did at the markets I mean I think from great leadership I think they're looking at like Aon and I the we are so in it we are very involved in the business so by role modeling it's like kids if they see you doing they do you know and we always communicating collaboration and open communication how can we get things better and how we can

00:38:27 - 00:39:31

support and how we can all work together uh and what do you need and how can we better support you in your job in your role I think that that's how you get your team and your business to a level that represents the brand and ourselves is just working together and training and helping and supporting in every single way and how do you make sure that because I I hear this often that in retail people are really struggling to find the right stuff or when they were in their storees you know they were selling more product

00:39:00 - 00:39:55

now that other people are kind of employed they're not really carrying that do you have things that you do with your culture with your team with your training to really install the right kind of energy into your staff we are and we and this is a big part of what we really doing this year so it's great time to talk about it you're really working on like manuals and training and supporting retail and staff that they feel like really comfortable and well equipped about like where the product is

00:39:27 - 00:40:28

from what it's made of where the stones are from so they can educate how to stack and style the pieces so they can have fun with the customers be really genuine authentic and how they're selling not to oversell just to be real with you know and support the customer so we are developing like training like more training sessions and manuals for our staff um just so everyone feels like the their best version of themselves so they're comfortable to be themselves and and retails a lot so I actually spent 5

00:39:57 - 00:40:56

years in retail and uh I was I was working in a Westfield and uh I was custom printing t-shirts on the spot so Not only was I selling off the shelf but I also had to like Custom Design create press like heat press and um uh print press shirts uh in a retail environment retail can be a lot you know customers can be complaining they can be returning they can be a line at the door the other staff members now on a break like it's so much to manage it's so much to manage so you need you know not every good good

00:40:27 - 00:41:17

worker is a good manager so you need to know the difference you know of a good worker and a good manager so I've learned that like someone who works beautifully doesn't manage that well or might not be a great manager so finding the people who can work well and manage well is an important um one to differentiate uh and I think yeah I think not to be too emotional you know we're not like solving world problems here the customer is always actually right like let's just make it better

00:40:51 - 00:41:45

let's just make them happy it's kind of theater in a way yeah I I always found it like therapeutic when I was in retail cuz when you get emotional about the customer energy it was difficult but I found if can't be emotional my favorite game to play was when a angry customer would come in and I would just play a game like how calm can I be game love that game yeah so the angrier they got the Cala I got beautiful and eventually they would fizzle out and they would yeah you're not giving it energy and you

00:41:19 - 00:42:16

just make you know they just want to feel seen they want to feel H like human we all do you know so like okay you have an issue no problem let's just help you what do you need you want another airing C you want us okay no problem like I think just hearing that customer is not being defensive personally or irritated even if you feel it and I'm sure they my staff do feel it and I understand that too I validate that but I'm like but it's not your problem like just or I'm telling you just make that customer

00:41:47 - 00:42:31

happy like make it better they are our business it's okay you know don't get too emotional because really you're the one who's going to who feels you know when you get emotional you feel the pain don't take it on you know like let's just sort it out yeah and sometimes it sucks cuz you're stuck and then they they won't leave and they won't they're making a whole thing it's like so it RS the whole vibe of the whole you know I mean the energy is off and now

00:42:09 - 00:42:55

everyone's feeling that toxic you know like we can we can we can short circuit this you know so I'm really about like don't give it air time or energy for customers having you know I know we don't do this refund but if they just refund yeah like it's okay yeah it's our policy it's like it's not really a you don't have to like there you got to use a little bit of EQ there like a little bit of like bend the rules a little bit like it's okay yeah like I appreciate

00:42:32 - 00:43:30

the care and that we all following rules but sometimes no well said and and we recently um you know uh had the privilege of doing some work together with Simon beard from Culture Kings I had a great conversation with him fantastic guy we've had him on the podcast and he was saying that in retail one of the things he said to his staff was don't think of this as a job if you're going to work for Culture Kings this can be a career and I know your parents don't think that but he was

00:43:01 - 00:43:53

trying to breed this culture that hey retail can be a career yes if you really want it to be and he led this with this concept that he calls High warmth high confidence so if you're going to come into the store and the customer walks in you want to be a beam of sunshine and give him a ton of energy to make him feel welcome and excited to be there and then you want to be confident like Hey try this on yeah I think this would look fantastic on you and I always get stuck on this when I go into suit shops they

00:43:27 - 00:44:23

like you should try that on I'm like no fine try it on yeah um got to feel authentic but I love you know I love this you can make a career out of this totally like and yeah for sure in our business is like that too like I really I feel like there's opportunity and we're growing so fast and um there's always opportunity if you want opportunity and there's always growth there's always different Avenues what are you interested in what do you want to do more of sure yeah love it do you

00:43:55 - 00:44:43

have any any rules for your floor stuff like these are our kind of unspoken or or spoken rules around like what we stick to like this is our ethos I mean we do on like a physical they have to wear you know got to wear that jewelry and stuff but I think it's more just about dripped out with the right stack you got to have the right you got to be wearing arms of Eve you got to have uniform on in a way of just like looking clean and fresh and white I love it um but really it's just about having fun

00:44:19 - 00:45:06

with the customer and like really seeing the customer and engaging and not over engaging if a customer doesn't want to not overselling at all they can sense that like this is just about like being attentive in there like you're shopping with a friend you're styling like you're having fun with a friend right and what would you tell your friend try this you love it no if you don't like this try this but if you don't that's cool let us know if it's a gift well you know just

00:44:41 - 00:45:36

to be um present and that's important cuz I hate it when you go into a shop and they're like need help with anything and you're like H I guess not you know no they need to be present and just like attentive but in not a pushy way yeah no I like that now one thing I really want to highlight about your pieces is that they're ethically handcrafted and you really like to empower The Artisans what exactly do you mean by that because we hear a lot of language around ethics and this and that everyone should be ethical

00:45:10 - 00:46:06

I think just like it's like a no-brain should it shouldn't be a it's not even a thing I yes I I I'm always in my factories I love traveling and I love going to I love people so I really love working with whether it's my staff or in store with my customer or The Artisans making the jewelry but I mean there are a lot of certification out there that's like Statics approved that is ensuring all of this like ethical what are they Sorry like labor laws and ethical trading where there certain hours and

00:45:39 - 00:46:28

cleanliness and environmental um certification that most Factor should have and most of them do at a certain level you just have to you know or like all my materials recyclable stainers they should have a certification with that that you know what I mean like backs it up and because I'm physically in there I'm really seeing it and you know in I'm present in it so I'm like okay cool this is a great environment I love my team I love who I'm working with this is good so you're

00:46:03 - 00:46:54

flying in you're walking around these factories looking at the product um Co co-designing and making sure it fits yes and they're doing it ethically absolutely and that they're a team who are empowered absolutely what do you what do you look for in their team to make you feel confident not fake happiness like hi no shame and a lot of times they're shy you know they don't really you know but you can sense if it's a good environment it's clean it's beautiful they in the right you know

00:46:29 - 00:47:27

that I mean you go in the middle of the day runs on lunch I love that that means like blockout they're taking that time to have lunch I don't think we do that you know what I mean so they got my last bre yeah exactly I'm like well that's great should do that business owners if you're stuck using one platform for every project you're probably stuck in a growth bottleneck more clients means more hires which just adds noise and cuts into profits to break the loop you need flexible tools that don't stretch

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maintenance platform meaning you can redirect the client budget towards real growth initiatives think more value for clients steady income streams and stronger relationships to get started simply go to wix.com Studio do you have any hot takes here around what people aren't doing to support this kind of um you know support that that people needed in these factories across the world like do you have a bone to pick with anyone for example if someone's like not even making the effort to try to investigate

00:48:07 - 00:49:00

they just want to find the cheapest product that can be shipped the fastest to give them the highest margins things like that I don't have a bone I mean I yeah it's not right I mean of course I don't know I just I just stay in my lane and I just kind of focus on what I need to be focus on what makes me feel better what makes me go to bed that's what you're in control of right yeah what I I control what I can thank you and that's literally another man like control what you can and um the rest is out of you

00:48:33 - 00:49:25

know not my yeah I can't really that's beautiful I think it's it's so important that you're like this is what I can control like if I'm going to do this do it ethically yeah and it makes me feel better and I enjoy it and it's I feel like it's kind of like it's it's an obvious like of course you know and it's um from the beginning I think it has changed though as you get bigger you can't go to smaller Artisans anymore because they sometimes factories can't

00:48:59 - 00:49:56

afford all the um certification right and they also can't produce quantity on that level so I have had to make certain decisions and go to different factories that are a little bit bigger and have all the certification because um I'm growing and I'm at that stage so that's kind of tricky beautiful no that makes total sense to me and I think you know obviously if there's an outfit that can't keep up with the demand that you need it's it's on you as the business owner

00:49:30 - 00:50:24

transparent ethical can hold that amount of quantity yeah so that's trick even though you go into these smaller factories and it is ethical but I mean is it like there also you got not by the standards that it needs to be like it's too hot or there not you know what I mean so I'm like I can't like I actually go visit every Factory that I work with Wow to make sure that um it meet can meet our demands and that it's the right environment for yeah the guys from lskd were on the part and they were saying

00:49:58 - 00:51:00

the same thing like he visits every Factory goes through the entire floor they have their own checklist they want to check the ethics yes when it comes to people getting started in let's just say the space of beauty or jewelry um what are some things that they should be focused on because I I hear a lot of things around people that order from a supply chain and then they blame the supply chain and I'm like well hold on a second this is your business right obviously they have their business

00:50:29 - 00:51:25

you chose the partner you want to work with you did your due diligence you signed contracts you sent money like how does someone make sure that their supply chain is actually going to support their business I think that's challenging I think you don't know and sometimes there are mistakes and there's a you know what I mean and it didn't work out I think by actually going physically is a great um way to build that relationship and that um connection where that doesn't happen that Rapport you know so I feel where

00:50:57 - 00:51:48

FedEd and having the right certification and asking the right questions is really important off the bat so for someone is starting with a new Factory that they do they have setex approved like do they have their certain certifications and that already is setting you up for a better experience yeah but if we zoom out to like 10,000 ft looking at the supply chain more from like endtoend business perspective how do you make sure that that thing works how do you make sure that when you're doing

00:51:23 - 00:52:14

campaigns and Launches on the Ecom store and you're trying to get ready for Valentine's Day get ready for Christmas um how do you make sure that the supply chain is doing what it needs to do obviously having these relationships help yeah um do you have any other rules or processes or anything like that yeah yeah great production manager you know we're super organized and I mean on the weekly we analyzing our best sellers quantity how you know knowing the lead times when things are produced from when

00:51:48 - 00:52:48

they made designed made and produced understanding that and then buffering that so you're not in any I mean you always delay there's always DeLay So buffering those delays yeah you know and just kind of being okay with that um so but having a great production manager having well like just well oil systems you know that are just helping you succeed and that's like producing the right amount knowing when to put those orders in knowing when the holiday times are for your factories knowing your big peak times looking

00:52:18 - 00:53:11

historically on what's worked before what you need all the data oh my gosh yeah yeah we're totally forecasting all the time on production from previous years to the next year increasing it by a percentage Yeah Yeah it's like stock trading now even more exactly and now with more stores we have to even do that even more like okay now we got to add on two more stores okay let's model it over like West you know B our Junction okay and then you got to like think about the inventory and the stuff and you yeah and

00:52:45 - 00:53:39

then you got to let your factories know and so I'll be going to Hong Kong soon to meet multiple factories and then kind of having those conversations now I mean you already start gearing up for like November December now yeah in a way yeah I was joking with a friend of mine she she called me for some advice for her her e-commerce business and I kind of came up with a bit of a parable and I was like starting a business it's almost like you're in the cow pastes there's green grass there's out there's other

00:53:12 - 00:54:04

people out there just kind of hanging out it's pretty chill the Farmers Feed everyone it's great and then you just felt cold to the Jungle right on the edge of the Pacers as this jungle and I was like you've decided to go into the jungle and become a rhino you're like I'm not a C I'm a rhino but she keeps calling me and saying like you know well just around the corner things are going to get easier and I said to her in business it's only going to get hotter thicker and deeper and she's like what

00:53:38 - 00:54:24

do you mean by that I'm like the further you go in the jungle the hotter it gets the thicker the jungle gets the deeper you feel like you're blacked out by the sky it's never going to get any easier right she's like what why why have I signed up for this I'm like welcome to entrepreneurship yeah right um and and I joked I said guess what happens when you get out of the jungle she's like what I'm like there's a swamp and then there's a desert and then there's a God

00:54:01 - 00:54:49

this is D ever going to start a business listening to this but this sounds terrible what I'm trying to get at is the bigger your company gets like obviously you're doing e-commerce you're doing the retail store you're so Zen and you're so chill and obviously you're a raw creative and you love this but there would be times where it gets a little tough right yeah yeah it's it's always challenging I mean but I think you just yeah it's I mean it's been really this

00:54:24 - 00:55:15

is it's always challenging I mean inventory product break I mean there's always things you're working on but that's again your temper is it like your small improvements all the time like okay cool it's good here's our problem how do we get better here's a problem how does it get better what do we need to get better what do we need to get this easier smoother more efficiently done more you know and using the team to help me get better and to collaborate on the ideas so I feel like yeah there's

00:54:50 - 00:55:49

issues but that's also part of like the growth and the success is all the mistakes they are the ones that are teaching us what we need and it just you know I think it's like enjoying that I love it and creating that space and finding it fun and just going hey we're in the jungle let's make let's like enjoy the jungle dance with the jungle dance exactly I mean not every day of course this is not like you know what I mean but like yeah like and also look what we're doing this is fun yeah this

00:55:20 - 00:56:32

is not like stressful I mean it is but like also have perspective like we're healthy we're great do you have beliefs um around energy what you put out is what you get like what do you kind of live by when it comes to energy I do think um the energy you put out comes back like or it is all energetic all your connections everyone um they can feel that energy they can feel the authenticity they can you know what I mean I think it is all energy and what was I saying where your energy goes where your tension goes your energy

00:55:56 - 00:56:53

flows you know so careful what you put in your your intention on you know cuz that's where the energy will go is it good is it positive it's going to help us it's it going to move it forward you know and I always said like don't sweat the small stuff like let's just keep it moving and keep improving and CZ in and just keep doing it you know yeah and you seem to focus on the the positives The Next Step the activity positives yes yes the negatives are going to happen regardless so cool what did that teach

00:56:25 - 00:57:24

us how do we move on for that move a quick yeah like let's be let's you know learn quick move fast you know like it's important I I had it's so funny I had my my GM and some of my team um in my room the other day and I had a client call me and um it was it was a tough call and you know they had to leave the room because they're like man I can't handle being in the room with this phone call and I get off the call and everyone's like how did you not lose your [ __ ] on

00:56:54 - 00:57:44

that call and I was like like this this is fun and my team are like what are you talking about you're just getting your ear cheed off I'm like but like having the client get off the call and going okay cool let's get back into the project I was like yes you know and they're like how do you make that fun I was like business if you make if you make the conscious decision when you're building your company that this is fun it can become fun it is you don't take it too seriously you can't take it too

00:57:19 - 00:58:16

seriously you don't take it so personally whatever that client was saying you weren't like oh you weren't taking that on like this is you you were like okay yeah the thing I found was like if you apply labels to things they're true so if you go that was hard it's hard if you go that was a fun learning experience it's a fun learning experience and I I heard this thing from Tony Robbins where he said that two people can be in the same car accident have the exact same experience one gets

00:57:47 - 00:58:45

out and goes thank God I'm alive and kisses the ground the other person goes how tragic I can't believe that happened to me that's 100% the whole way through life that's like we all have different experiences internalize it differently also according to your upbringing and like what what your story is yeah I feel like that always and I'm always going to reframe it and make it positive because it makes me feel better where do you think that comes from for you I mean i' I think survival I think

00:58:16 - 00:59:20

you just like it it you know I think you learn that like well the Alternatives were like this like to reframe actually feels better like it feels more like there's just a shift in that oh cool I want to believe that I want to go with that you know the other one just feels like I don't like the feeling in my body it doesn't feel good right you like to look at the best case situation yeah yeah yeah yeah I love that and when it comes to your artistic side because it seems like you have a a lot of flare for

00:58:48 - 00:59:40

natural creativity and some i' say well is it nature or nurture in your case it might be both but how do you find a balance between the commercial and the creativity so when you're picking your pieces do you look at a piece and go that's going to make a ton of money yeah or do you yeah or do you look at a piece and go I really like that like what's the balance oh my gosh again both but I am definitely very commercial okay yeah it's interesting you think more creative but yes and but I think to be a creative

00:59:14 - 01:00:08

you got to be commercial because that's what um I think that goes hand in hand like you want it to sell you want your customers to like it so you need to be creative and make people want it and like it so that's truly creative in where people are wanting it and liking it but I think um I do have a like I look at things commercially like I think that's going to I've always got to love it no matter what so it's always going to be commercially um but it's got to be commercially viable like does it have

00:59:41 - 01:00:21

the right margins do I think my customer is going to love that and then there's some pieces that I'm like I'm just going to do because I love them and it doesn't matter and every was like I don't I don't you know what I mean I'm like it doesn't matter I love that so much that's going ahead and there's certain pieces that I'm just like that's it it's going ahead if it happened a lot recently that I'm like no I love it and then it becomes something bigger like I

01:00:01 - 01:00:50

keep pushing it for sure I keep putting that same bracelet back in I think it's this one Lola this one moment it's so cool but it took a while to be cool um for everyone to love it you know I made it cool because it's a bit strong you know it's a bit of a statement it's a bit direct it's let you know so I think so yeah I'm also very gutful like what I love will go in and then I'll just keep pushing it a little bit and sometimes I'm also cool to be like that was not a

01:00:25 - 01:01:24

good decision out all right I tried it didn't work cool move on you know I don't take it too seriously either I'm like and for the future are you looking for you want to go bigger into retail or you want to be more dependent on e-commerce like how do you want to split it going forward what's what's been your balance I mean I think retail is your main it's very interesting right now because the for the first time the retail stores are doing as well as the online store or even better so now it's

01:00:55 - 01:01:48

like changing a little bit but ret but online your is my main vein I mean that's how the business started that will always be your biggest store I look at it as a store now like we're redoing our website at the moment and I'm like yeah sure how much is that yeah it's about the cost of a store like that makes sense um we need to look after that we need a good you you know good experience so I think yeah they almost being a little bit comparable at the moment I think you Foster both at the

01:01:22 - 01:02:14

same time it's like that Omni Channel you know they're all feeding into each other they're different you know and you someone in the store goes back online to shop their first experience could be in the NOA store which is the most beautiful store they obviously not from NSA they've been traveling they you know so now they're going to go back online to shop okay so with the retail and the Ecom thing I imagine that like you just said there the retail really feeds the Ecom yeah does it happen the other way

01:01:48 - 01:02:50

around yeah it all feeds each other absolutely absolutely I think you go from the ret or you you've shopped online oh my God now you see a store amazing so you go into the store I think it all works together now you've recently striked a cord with some celebrities oh yeah so we've got our beloved margar Robbie who is you know an Australian icon globally at this point and Haley Bieber yeah amazing how did this happen I think very lucky actually to be honest the ionic dox in new door Westfield do door just keep showing up

01:02:19 - 01:03:08

being in the right time at the right place you keep just putting it out there I think sometimes you just I think I don't know I think you're you're you're attracting I I I hope so I have a good team I had a great PR team in La um and I think it was the right timing I think in Co they were gifting a lot okay and then maybe everyone was home a lot and so they were um being able to receive these gifts and then they were just enjoying and wearing these pieces so we had Amada you know

01:02:43 - 01:03:49

like yeah I think we had a lot of different great luck with that um so yeah they all been gifted I've really been lucky it hasn't been very intentional are you conscious of trying to knock get um stuck like you always trying to find the next thing like do you find that you um have any fear of like getting too stagnant or becoming dated or what have you yeah I mean of course naturally as a creative and and running business you always get fearful in the beginning of the year or between or before a collection launches there's

01:03:16 - 01:04:13

always that moment like I hope it sells or I hope this does well always I think again you just keep moving you just keep doing and um and doing what feels right and what feels feels um natural and that I love it and that my team love it they're so important in the collaboration with me on that too so yeah I think it's I think you just got you can't that also gets in your head and that becomes the problem I think you got to kind of like quiet the mind a little bit and be like yeah it's

01:03:45 - 01:04:38

working or if it doesn't I'll just pivot and reframe and figure something else out or and also constantly coming up with new ideas and new categories and okay now I want candles or perfumes or scents or what else is beautiful or so there's always ways to expand in categories and I'm grateful I have the platform and the community now to kind of experiment with you got raving fans hardcore raving fans and they love and adore you and people here in the office know about you I love that yeah they

01:04:11 - 01:04:59

love it so grateful I sometimes I can't even believe it but I'm also like thank you as well like yeah no I love that yeah now when it comes to like line extension so you were saying okay we got the jewelry um you know now we're doing candles we're doing scents we're doing this and that like do you think you can go too far too quickly with that at what point are you like this is the right time like how do you balance that yeah I mean I'm always being like like there was a time I really wanted candles and

01:04:35 - 01:05:34

they like no it's heavy it takes you know then the logistics the more commercial side of like well the warehouse space and then soy will melt so you the man the K this going to mess up yeah and like you know so I have a lot of people around me that you know kind of you know just gently kind of move me back okay cuz yeah yeah yeah like okay car that's a cool idea that's nice next season yeah yeah yeah yeah okay yeah let's keep let's keep thinking about that you know um yeah but I do think I I'm also just

01:05:05 - 01:05:55

about experimenting and trying it and then we'll see and just buying maybe a little less or experimenting like doing a little drop testing testing okay that worked let's go more let's go more you know now when you do a shoot like what are you trying to think of when the shoot's taking place you're like okay we're going to do emails we have to do uh some social media content we have to do reals we have to do this and that it just feels like there's so much pressure now you know toe to create so much

01:05:30 - 01:06:17

content and like how do you guys manage that I mean I think we thinking of everything like my graphic designer or be my creative director she' be thinking about she needs landscape and space to do her writing for you know banners and you know web and then and then one of my you know live will be thinking about doing reals and doing Tik Tok everyone's just thinking I think it's a combination but I think you can do it all at once at the same time like it's just how you shoot you go a little bit you know

01:05:53 - 01:06:35

closer when you need more stuff you go a little bit wider you do a little bit more wall for like I think it's maybe it's become so natural now that we are thinking of all aspects at all the times we're reminding the photographer for a lot of people they're like I can't do any of that like where do I start you know no but we're always reminding okay and we've also worked with the same team for a long time like Madia photographer okay mad you know what I'm going to say

01:06:14 - 01:07:16

give us some wi shot go a little closer we need you know all different angles I think we're all kind of a little well oiled machine at the moment with that but that took time too it always does and experimenting with different team members at like okay what worked we need like really flexible really collaborative even with contractors yeah it's all the same energy do you try to rely predominantly on in-house creative or do you tend to outour a lot as well mainly in-house yeah has that given you

01:06:46 - 01:07:35

an advantage like what's your thoughts on that I think so I think it also like you know it's the fabric of the brand like it's so also true to who we are but I'm open to like experimenting with like outside creative too but I think it's it's easy when it comes from within I like that like what we live and breathe I don't know yeah I think so I think if someone kind of comes in and out they might be able to bring ideas in but like people that like live and breathe it yeah but I do like some a fresh

01:07:10 - 01:08:00

perspective I love a fresh perspective but like tell me what you think well a lot of big Brands they'll pay a ton of like well sometimes not even pay they'll get agencies like us to come and do a bed that's a great idea and then they'll just give it to their in-house team oh no I know it's kind of the the game that we've been playing since the 40s but yeah that's really hard I know but we enjoy it but then again I would like if an outside agency had a great idea I'd

01:07:35 - 01:08:21

be like brilliant can you do it like take that off my hands and my team's hands like thank you you know like I think yeah I also can like surrender control very quickly you know and maybe at this stage because we're so busy got so much on I'd love someone to come up with them and be like and that it resonates and they really get the brand go for it well we're talking about that before the Pod like you know sometimes you have to be super controlling to get the outcome that you want especially in

01:07:58 - 01:08:46

such an intense industry but then other times you have to be like hey man let's just let's just chill a little bit let the team take care of this absolutely and I think that's also when the magic happens when you're not kind of all on it all the time like you can relax a little bit and let everyone do their thing and let them shine yeah I think that's been great for me but hard you know in the beginning like really cholak we need we need our kicks but then amazing like great especially with like

01:08:22 - 01:09:25

even like Tik Tok and those kind of very lowf fire natural like I really stayed away because I was going to ruin it really because it was so challenging for me what exactly did you mean by that well you know that kind of content which is so authentic natural you know um everyday like unpolished whatever Loi whatever you call it I wanted it to be like beautiful polished and I was like I you do it I shouldn't be a part of it because I'm just not I think it needs to be what it needs to be and if I'm around

01:08:54 - 01:09:44

it I'm going to try control it so you do it yeah surrender go for it guys so you're a heavy curator and you like to organize a beautiful shoot but then if you have a Content or an influencer that doesn't really play that game you're like just do it you do you you do you yeah exactly and then like it always works and I'm grateful like I could like step out a little bit and let someone you know because if I was stepping in it' be like running it really well I like to think about it like like deep

01:09:19 - 01:10:07

domain expertise like I'm really good at curating a shoot in your case and that's what I love to do and that's how I like to do it yeah this world I'm not even I don't even understand it but I can appreciate that it works I don't know how it works but like but it works can I get you to do it for me 100% and that's how I feel and with so many little new you know new things I'm like yeah I don't really get it I don't know I don't need to people are when they're earlier in

01:09:43 - 01:10:29

their Journey they tend to try to be good at everything yeah and you know I've been telling a lot of people recently clients that are like in their first 6 months 12 months of business I'm like you don't have to be great at everything no you just have to be really good at like your thing yeah and bring people in when you need them that are better than you that are way better than you and they love doing what that what you don't love doing but here's the catch is they sometimes get scared of

01:10:06 - 01:11:03

that cuz if they hire someone smarter than them then they look bad oh wow right like if you think about make you look good I'm I know but if you think about an organization sometimes like you know um like I find a players higher a players cuz they want to be around other yeah freaks you know what I mean like me I'm give me around another a player I don't anything else but a players around me a b player tends to hire a c player because they could see as man if I hire an a player I'm going to look

01:10:35 - 01:11:20

terrible yeah don't get that I'm all about the a players hiring a players but I see this a lot in companies really yeah I think that's ego no I think like that's just ego like I think you need to kind of do the work on yourself because you want to get better you going you can't do it alone you need a team you need to collaborate you need people better than you and other and not you can't be the best at everything a a new game I'm trying to play is like I want to be the biggest idiot in my company I

01:10:58 - 01:11:43

just want to be surrounded by people game I'll win oh man I'm just like I I feel like now it's happening cuz I'm like like I'll walk into a room and the team will be talking I'm like what are we even doing in this room I know they're like we're working on the logistics I'm like cool I'm like love it thank you so much keep I'm out of here you know so grateful thank you keep doing you amazing now you go off and do another concept or idea and roll with yourself but it's funny when I was an

01:11:21 - 01:12:01

employee and you see the boss that has no clue what's going on you're like man they should invest time to like care about this but then when you're the boss you're like no I don't have time for this you know I mean you you care and you have time you just trust this is again about trust you obviously trust your team because if you didn't you wouldn't just walk out totally you trust them you know what they're doing is cool and what you trust what they're working

01:11:41 - 01:12:36

on is good others you would not walk out and be like all right keep doing it you clearly love your team yeah no there's U there's a great um a great rule cam the producer of the Pod and I were talking about this recently when we were doing some hiring and a really great question we started asking asking people um you know after they would interview someone to join the team is we would ask the person doing the interview post interview could you see yourself working for that person and we saw this off Zuckerberg

01:12:08 - 01:12:57

cuz zck does this apparently but he has this framework where it's like you interview someone they leave and then you get asked would you work for them wow and if you can't say yes why are we hiring them oh my God I'm going to do that yeah that's great that's a good one thank you that's a good one the second question we s asking which is great and I might have said this on the Pod before but I'll say it again and that's um when you're hiring someone ask them do they

01:12:32 - 01:13:33

consider themselves as a lucky person or as an unlucky person love this they immediate physiological biological verbal response tells you everything you need to know wow without their words without their words and we recently had someone say depends on the day and we were like get out like immediately like done like we do not want to have this person in the team um and wow right and then someone else would just say you know uh and for example I'll shout out Jules behind the team here he was like

01:13:03 - 01:14:06

absolutely man every day is a gift he like I love my family I'm blessed I was like get him on the team so so that when you're when you're trying to bring people into your team what do you look for what's important to you I mean I guess it is optimism it's like someone who just is um got a great disposition who's a can do who's a collaborator who can take responsibility for their actions you're not always going to get it right you can make mistakes you can own them you can get better at them um

01:13:34 - 01:14:27

who can do the small improvements kazen who can just get it done and then improve as we go and in order to improve you need to know when it's not good and what needs to be done but I think it's about collaboration and just having that can do you know even like when when we were hiring in the beginning or still now we say like we're hiring like Swiss Army knives like someone who could do multiple you know do bit everything yeah we want of higher Swami surprise you yeah I didn't know he had a screwdriver in you

01:14:01 - 01:14:56

like what are you doing no no no you need to wear melt bats I would love this susami like are you susami can you do this because the business is small you need to be able to and are you K work across other things and that's also a certain personality not everyone like you know you need someone yeah in the earliest day if we still early we still kind of work in that like how big is your team now I mean there's 15 I think or maybe 18 inh house okay and then but I mean retail's large there's like 80 of

01:14:28 - 01:15:15

us wow like 80 total 80 total that's a lot of0 total yeah is it weird for you to like meet someone that you haven't interviewed and you're like are you new here like that's always a weird one award yeah I hate that because I love meeting I hate that recently we had people join the team I'm like hi yeah like oh man I feel tell I'm going to get that you know what I mean especially now that we you know in new and stuff but I you'll be the celebrity you'll be like oh the boss is coming no I know but I

01:14:52 - 01:15:48

don't I want to be more relate I want to be with them but I that'll never happen you'll always be the scary boss okay really yeah no matter what that's also good I don't mind that boundary to be honest like as that's cool I I saw a thing where recently Netflix sent out a report to their whole team and I can't remember what it was ter what the terminology was but they they put out a report to their entire company and they said um if your team was on the firing block who would you fight to

01:15:19 - 01:16:07

keep and everyone else let him go immediately wow and they had a purge wow and and Netflix's theology behind this was we're trying to build the dream team we're not building a family here brilliant this is a sports club and if you don't perform have the sports club get out L what's your thoughts on this though what's your thoughts on like performance and like if the team aren't pulling their weight get out you know what do you think of this no it's hard this is why I'm like so loving what you're

01:15:43 - 01:16:42

saying and relating because I have to really think about it as a high performance npple team you love netball I love netball well I I love so many ankles get broken I love I know need to be screwed again but I do think you got to look at it as like a sports team and like if you're not performing well then let put the next player hit the bricks pal it really helps me um have boundaries and kind of make these decisions that are tricky because I always want to give a you know the right opportunity or more of a

01:16:13 - 01:17:04

chance or have I communicated that I was want to take responsibility for myself first like have I communicated that has my team have we given them the best chance have we done the best training okay you know and if you're still not performing you know so I'm always second guessing but really when I think about it as a high performance team I'm like it's very quick for me to make that decision I'm like NOP out yeah get out of here I need it yeah yeah do you enjoy firing people no I hate it but it

01:16:39 - 01:17:46

depends you know sometimes it's very clear and you know it's it's easy like if you're going to you know mess with culture or kind of be that little bad apple it's very easy for me to fire yeah that word but we always say I think you fire yourself you know like good yeah I think you do how do you define success for yourself and your business and are they the same yeah I think they're the same how do you define sucess I know success is having good health having the right people around you having my family just

01:17:12 - 01:18:16

like keep living what I'm you know doing what I'm passionate about and it being and in making money being successful giving people opportunity to be their best selves giving my customers opportunity to express themselves um feeling like they feel the value of the product and love it that makes me feel good I mean yeah I think that's just success is just doing what you love and you know everyone else love doing it with you what's your thoughts on work life balance trick what does you mean I mean

01:17:43 - 01:19:03

it's a it's also like a cousen situation it's small improvements I think we work a lot you know but I love what I do so sometimes it doesn't even feel like work how do you want to be remembered wow ah I mean just with love and kindness and giving back to community to family to friends I mean yeah just by being like a good person like it doesn't have to be greater than that it's just being with family and friends and just being there for each other accountable present um showing up

01:18:26 - 01:19:19

that's beautiful I mean just came I don't know like I really haven't thought about that but I think that's how that's what it is I don't know I've never thought about how I wanted to be remembered but I guess think about it like think about like professionally let's just say we get down the road 10 20 years you know and they talk about this this hurricane of a woman that came into the jewelry space what do you think I would love to like eventually like help people I don't know I want to be

01:18:52 - 01:19:58

remembered I think happy like it it doesn't have to be in the business sense I think it's more in the psychology sense of like just actually helping people get things done and um break through the internal barriers they have with their mind you know and just kind of be supportive maybe like Mentor or kind of helping that way I mean I think that's through my experience and my learning and I think it's all psychology I mean this business has taught me more about them myself than any relationship you know

01:19:24 - 01:20:29

it's kind kind of so I think in that understanding helping others understand themselves and making sure they're kind of just doing and not holding themselves back in any way yeah maybe giving back to others giving back for sure service I think that's always where the greatest meaning is yeah what do you mean by that being there for people being of service like in in in so many ways whether it's in like a community in a charitable way in a small family way within your team members just

01:19:57 - 01:20:51

being um there for each other so showing up again it's like so you can do that in your within Community to give back in like a charitable way we work with like thread together or you know we do other like charity work and I think that's always a lot of you know I used to work in an old age home once a week um helping them go through wardrobes what worked what didn't work putting outs together you always feel your best self when you're out of your own head and self and being there for

01:20:24 - 01:21:24

somebody else why do you think that's so important for people once they start to get success they always find themselves cycling back to giving to others yeah because I think they realize like it doesn't matter how much success you get or how much money you make or whatever it is like you you can still be unhappy really and your true happiness comes from being with people and helping others and yeah being within Community what's a quote or a mantra that you've carried with you on your

01:20:54 - 01:21:59

journe Journey that you wish everyone listening to this would immediately Implement I mean if they haven't heard it a million times in this podcast but done is better than perfect just do it and small improvements Ken Small improvements all the time what would you say to people that are like yeah but I don't know where to start yeah no one does you just got to start like you just whatever it is just stop putting it out this just start doing it St making the mistakes just just do it it will evolve it will grow

01:21:26 - 01:22:29

will change it will fail get back up I had this analogy come to my mind like a year ago and it was like if you imagine a piece of string and you're trying to build a necklace yeah and the string is your purpose and what's the first bead just focus on that one thing at a time one thing at a time I do say that a lot like one thing at a time if for my my chaotic self it's like okay okay one thing at a time you know like the type of person that does one thing at a time no I know I know you've

01:21:58 - 01:22:48

got like 80 necklaces going at the same time 100% I need like multiple but like Rome wasn't built in a day like all go like one thing at a time you know um it's true though CU I think what happens is you want to build momentum oh that bead wasn't so hard to put on the necklace like you know you create a little domain and then you register your business and then you start looking at potential products online you just step by step absolutely start to put it together I think I think 100% it's so

01:22:23 - 01:23:16

overwhelming if you look at it you know like what you already want to be like just start like just do one put that one beat on I think that's a great analogy actually you can steal it that's yours yeah know I love it thank you so much I want to steal you can have it I'm going to rewatch it and be like especially with the hiring and who you know no we're friends at this point what's up we're friends at this point all right last question okay what's a door you need to kick in right now in your

01:22:49 - 01:23:44

business to go to the next level we're just kicking many doors in different regions Perth go Coast you know um you find it tricky to do all these different states and like no okay I mean it will be I don't know let's let's get back to that like I'm thinking about it now there's some opportunities in different states so this is going to be a test okay and how I know we have go Coast coming up in June that's going to be super exciting but then there's a potential in um Perth

01:23:17 - 01:24:14

so then and then there's one in Melbourne so this will be a very challenging lots of doors to kick small amount of time one you know do have a team but I think that's going to this this is going to be a logistical challenge but again with a great team and Builders and great communication I think we're going to be okay I just love how chill you are like you're building this Empire you got 80 employees you got all these stores and you're just chill I think I got a great team I think I don't know but I meet so

01:23:45 - 01:24:45

I meet so many people that are in E e-commerce and Retail and they're like like stressing out you know you just I mean there's other There's real stuff to stress about there I'm grateful like I feel like I got an amazing team things are going well I feel super lucky yeah and I just I just want to keep doing what I'm doing so I'm really feel blessed well you're freaking crushing it we loved going through your portfolio your photography shout out to Felix he's done a phenomenal job he's amazing yeah

01:24:15 - 01:25:10

where he's amazing those watching Felix's um uh on our content team but he does your photography yes he does an amazing job he's got a knack for it he's he's a freak um but yeah how can people find you get in touch with you check more out about what you're doing thanks Dane I don't I mean Instagram is always great we have a website but Instagram I'm really responsive I'm actually on it most of the time okay so you got your own channel and I don't I go through the

01:24:42 - 01:25:37

business I go through the arms of you yeah I'll probably be on there yeah I'm still very much involved um yeah well you strike me as someone that has a ton of energy super positive it sounds like you're building a phenomenal team you're really putting uh a mark on the E map for retail and e-commerce and bringing jewelry to light and um yeah we've heard a lot about you through through industry and people are talking about your name and what you're doing so um yeah thank you so much for

01:25:10 - 01:26:03

giving us some of your time thank you for being here and thanks for having me it was a pleasure and I'm super inspired by everything you say so I'm like s did everyone remember you know send me we'll have to get Aaron on here we'll have to get you back definitely that's a total different energy you'll see a a whole different Interruption game there like him I had way too much time to talk I needed him to like pull me back articulate it you know make it make sense yeah yeah make it make sense ER

01:25:36 - 01:26:25

makes me make sense 100% I feel like a crazy person sometimes behind the scenes yeah and I always go back to cam and I'm like am I crazy no that was clear Artic also because what's in our mind I don't know it's difficult for me because I'm like thinking another thoughts I mean literally I think I need Smiths you know let's be real that's prob is very groundy he will keep it all back you mean he'll he'll answer those questions with deliberation and insight but well

01:26:01 - 01:26:18

we're excited to have him on and um what you guys are doing is fantastic thank you and um yeah thank you for being here thanks for having me again