From Analysis to Actionable Intelligence: Leveraging AI for Business | Marissa Kos

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but I do believe you brought up that it's ending creativity I have found it is the precise opposite Marissa C is a Visionary futurist and leading voice in AI as the founder of M Square she empowers and educates Brands to harness the power of AI to dominate their Industries it is threatening the profit structures of some of the biggest corporations in the world a Relentless innovator Marissa is redefining ai's potential both for her and for her clients they do get stressed and that causes the hallucinations a

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Hallucination is when it's either lying to you or it's come up with half truths AI was discovered not invented does that concern you totally do you think that having access to AI makes us smarter or just faster my initial answer on a surface level is [Music] I would like to welcome Marissa C to the agency podcast welcome hi and thanks for having me we're excited for this one thank you I'm very excited as well AI has been a Hot Topic a lot of people have been throwing questions at me I

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know little to nothing um so I'm excited to really honestly kind of learn and understand what's happening because it just feels like every week There's Something Happening it it is happening every week like it is in fact every day it's it's so relentless um it's definitely a space in terms of tech we've never seen growth and change and evolution this rapid before um I was saying earlier that we're so used to sort of a tech calendar if you will of like every 3 months social media you

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know platforms will do major updates if not six and then yearly you'll have a new phone release from Apple or Samsung so we're really used to a much slower Pace compared to AI the exponential growth in the whether it's the large language models or the affordances that different tools offer to now we're getting into a space where you've got AI companies the tech companies that are obviously developing these products they're shifting from not just having large language models but going into the

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large action model space where we're seeing autonomous behaviors from the AI so it's really again it's changing so much and we've obviously got some really healthy competition in amongst the major Tech uh companies with this but in this space particularly um but it's it's anyone's game at this stage as well um when we're looking at you know we've got anthropic you've got open AI you've got Google and there's no no one really necessarily is doing better than the

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other there are pros and cons everywhere um I've noticed as well certain tools uh develop really well for a certain period of time they evolve in a way that is really exceptional and the companies are getting very Savvy about the user experience which makes it more competitive but then you'll see that the actual knowledge or the outputs that you're getting isn't as great as another tool so you have to keep sort of rotating I don't have a definitive answer I have a favorite at the moment

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but I don't have a definitive answer on which one is better and no one does I feel like asking what's your favorite but it seems more uh perhaps proper to say who's your favorite who is great yes because they've all got the hilarious names and and it really does feel like the more you you interact with AI it's bizarre that it's it's such a humanized tech experience that you are talking and interacting and with chat jpt The Voice function now is is really really interesting but at the moment Claude is

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the favorite Child at the moment um Google Google Gemini it's it's more what I find is one thing I also really encourage is because I've got a marketing background is we have to keep in mind we are receiving marketing from these companies as well I really Advocate because it's so early in the piece you have to be boots on the ground and use these tools to know which one's right for you as well because they do offer different things for different needs in different businesses and that's

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obviously the Crux of my business but um yeah it totally depends on your needs and what you're looking for and one is not necessarily better than the other but they're all coming out because they want to be competitive and saying we have this new feature and try this and this has excelled past this and that might be great even in theoretical tests but day-to-day usage you have to get in there roll your sleeves up and start talking to the Bots I'm excited to really unpack that and there's a a

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section I think of our conversation where I really want to Deep dive into the differences between these different platforms how to interact with the prompts um and even just some of the um Concepts around language I'm really excited to unpack with you I guess to kick things off I just want to lead this with I guess a piece of data um I'm just going to read this quote out directly and it said that the AI industry is worth $98 billion today I'd actually argue it's maybe higher than

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that agree um it's set to quadruple by 2030 and some say it's the greatest technological leap since electricity the internet or even Henry Ford's production line and the tractor um yet others feel or fear that it could be the end of human creativity yeah thoughts on that thoughts on this we could get super technical or we could make it a sociological commentary it's we could do a bit of both let's entain both let's go sociological and then we'll go technical one thing that always amuses me because

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we're naturally self-obsessed is that we're always one convince that we're going to be the era that's the end of the world right really cute righty yeah and the human brain has got you know a bias towards negativity because we had to evolve if there's one tree that's you know know looking beautiful and another trees on fire you're predisposed to look at that and run away there's a whole thing on that I I got that from a huberman episode with Ari Wallock he's an amaz amazing

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futurist by the way and he's fantastic to look into he's got some really interesting commentary on how we should be looking at the future and we'll tie back into that later but um everyone's obsessed with the end of the end of humanity the end of creativity it's always the end and I get that we've just come out of of a pandemic so that's kind of where our mindset is but I would suggest that we if anything are now given an opportunity where yes it is as Monumental as those huge breakthroughs

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you just listed in human history we are at that stage in in terms of the next breakthrough but in saying that um that will totally free us up to reduce the ridiculous burnout we've now got because our Tech has evolved in a way where it's made our work place and our workloads untenable now so there is collective burnout everywhere I see it all the time doing culture resets and there is so much busy work going on and correspondence and just nitty-gritty that we don't need to be doing and it's

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not actually the essence of our jobs so AI is going to assist in that which means again if you just look at the body the brain the nervous system if you're less burnt out you're actually able to be more creative there's a quote from John C that says um if you want people to create or if you want creatives to thrive I can't remember the first part of it I'm butchering this uh you need to let them play and as we know now we're certainly not playing we are glued to the screens

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24/7 both in Leisure and at work so we need to shift that and AI is offering an affordance for that so just in that alone before we even get into AI in the creative spaces it's going to offer us such a different way of life on a day-to-day basis and that will be amazing and I do I totally believe that that will birth um almost like a Renaissance in terms of creativity and I'm really excited to see that I'm seeing emergences of um people having these discussions as well because it's a

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tough conversation to talk about AI because it's um there's a famous um uh kind of poem from uh Mark Twain where he was talking to a friend and he said um I'm sorry I tried to write you a short letter but the only way I could do it was to write you a long letter it's it's it's harder to say the short thing than it is to say the long thing and I think everyone's trying to put AI into a headline totally they're trying to box it into this one thing it's a doomsday

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thing um and it's it's actually a much more nuanced layered complicated intricate conversation depending on where it lands yes it totally is and I again we totally know how content Works how marketing Works what I always advocate for people because you've got to remember how you're receiving information about AI unless you're reading about it in the newspaper is certainly through digital mediums and as we know those mediums have algorithms that again lean into the negative bias

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because that means you're going to be engaged longer well was proven that uh Twitter now X was prioritizing negative built content um so there was a bit of that happening um to Circle back into what we're talking about just around the I guess um the technical and the the social side of things would you say that um what you're saying there with the social side of things is around workplace cult CU you do cultural resets what do you mean by that by the way so culture resets basically as a chief of

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staff what I offer and I've Incorporated this into my business which it's not AI but I'm now using AI in terms of we'll Circle back to this as well the AI agents which we'll get into later um I really advocate for business owners or those who are in leadership positions to speak to their teams and ask them what they love about their job because what agents are afford we'll talk about it more later is they're offloading all of that workload that I said is has become out of hand certainly extends past an 8

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hour workday and it's just locking you to a screen right and it's it is when you boil it down even if you are you know staying on top of things in terms of your coms you're filing this and that it's administrative at best you know what I mean it's it sucks to get bugged down into it CU you're task hopping you're like checking slack messages emails downloading this this video reading this brief and you're just bouncing between all these things to do your actual job but it's hindering you

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from doing your actual job right so we're in this ridiculous Loop now and that's okay because it's evolved that way it wasn't it didn't start off like that but now this is where we're at in terms of the tech we've outgrown the tech that we've got right so what I always Advocate is now that we're in a position where we can be delegating that sit your team down and say to them what do you love about your job what are the things that you do that really you feel like you drive when you do them you love

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to do them they spark that creativity they spark Innovation they spark that just Joy if you enjoy what you're doing the result is always so much better and you know building really comprehensive teams who love what they're doing you're showing them the respect of not only giving them a place to thrive and grow you're showing them the respect of also they're giving up time and their lives to help you build your dream because any business owner is is chasing a dream we we all are it's it can be argued that

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it's slightly insane but that's okay um you know it's it's a particular path and you have to show the adequate respect to the teams that dedicate their time to do so so alleviating those types of burdens in the workday is really great I've become very um I don't want to say hippie but I really do speak to my teams about how much time they're spending where they're getting blocked and I don't want to speak to them after hours or if I am speaking to them after hours

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and whatever hours we've discussed based on their their um their whether they're full-time or parttime I I'm not corresponding with them I love that the German government made it this is there always 10 years ahead um they made it illegal for um companies to be emailing employees after 5:00 p.m. or before 8:30 a.m. so and all the scandy countries are doing their 4-day work week and all of this and they are 30 years ahead of us so we've got proof of concept there we're just not following it right which

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is it's totally again human and totally ties in with human nature habit um is always you know prioritized over Innovation and breaking status quo so it's what is it the brain always choose an unfamiliar hell H sorry A Familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven so I feel like we're doing that in the workplace at the moment so yes I always say to anyone in a leadership role speak to your team let's see what they don't like let's see if we can get the AI to do it and then you've got people who are

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coming to work thrilled not dreading their day I love that where um you talking about we would rather pick a familiar hell than an unfamiliar Heaven why okay so regrettably I'm not Andrew huberman um but for my my side quests of my obsession with uh neurobiology it's a whole bunch of biochemistry in terms of our brain now our brains are plastic they're less plastic as we get older but we form form habits basically it's it comes down to a whole bunch of things with your internal medical cabinet so you've got the

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cortisol the adrenaline which can all become very addictive because adrenaline releases dopamine so you can be stressed and be addicted to stress and you don't realize you're doing it but you're doing things that aren't necessarily good for you and I I certainly think we're in a stage where we're all at least marginally addicted to stress I think we need to look at our biochemistry because we've also we're by the way we're doing all of this on greens that are shooting

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us blue light so they're shooting us even more dopamine which is then causing crashes right because the more dopamine hits you get the more you have sort of a crash after which makes you feel hideous it also UPS your cortisol I'm very sure blue light does increase cortisol levels so we're just in a really hideous cortisol Hill Loop and our brain gets very used to what is predictable and that's an evolutionary thing as well as the biochemistry aspect we we always want things to be safe predictable

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business as usual and what we're dealing with now is we're saying to business owners like hey this company you've built for 10 years 20 years 30 years all the systems policies procedures staff training culture you've developed yeah it's all about to change all on a dime and uh you have to get up to date quickly and I think that the if you know we're looking at the Mark Twain reference of like we're trying to summarize everything and what I'm hearing time and time again is that um

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if you don't adopt AI you're going to lose your job I'm kind personally I'm kind of tired of hearing that rhetoric because I'm so over it to me it's yeah it's such like a doomsday precious sales approach and I'm like it's such a heavier conversation than that to totally because we're talking about dopamine we're talking about our minds we're talking about our workplace we're talking about our culture we're talking about our children and their generation and what they're

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going to grow up with like the repercussions of this discussion are huge huge huge and if we what I think what annoys me and it's the way that it's communicated is that one we should lend this level of concern to other topics in the world at the moment I think that would benefit us as well but also what we need to keep in mind and what I urge everyone to have a great deal of um of I I would urge them to critique the coms they're getting on AI uh because it is threatening the profit structures of

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some of the biggest multinational corporations in the world so you are naturally getting information that is encouraging it to to sound as if it's like this apocalyptic thing if you look at history is always a good a good guide um sometimes a shocking guide but sometimes also a useful one um everyone said that about not the Industrial Revolution but I'm very sure televisions coped of like this would be the end of you know the world and humanity and intellect and this and that saw this ridiculous thing how AI is reducing

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critical thinking skills yet AI might be but we've had such a vast deduction in critical thinking skills over the last 20 years minimum from so many factors that you can't attribute all to AI you just can't right so ridiculous but um they def they certainly said that about the internet it would end the world and it would uh take replace everyone's jobs right uh and the same with smartphones so we need to learn from the past and it's the really recent past so it's not like it's something where it's

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interpretive and loosely theoretical and yeah we can learn philosophically from history it's the really recent past really recent history that it's very clear that that story never eventuates and in terms of I believe you said before we've gone everywhere but I do believe you brought up um that it's ending creativity I have found it is the precise opposite I know there are issues with ownership and I would argue that web 3 would solve that um and tokenization and things and that's

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getting a little bit complicated we might not have time for that in this episode but um there are there are solutions to that ethical ones it just depends whether that will be done but in terms of creativity itself the tools that are out there and the affordances that they offer it truly you can become a co-creator of your own reality with AI it's that amazing and that wild I I have literally just started um shooting my own podcast and I've got I've been able to generate music by with AI or mine

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naturally from prompting a specific tool tried a million tools um and found the real quick that you use for music uh udio okay yeah we've seen that it's fantastic it's fantastic fantastic Fant like they've killed it they're amazing so yeah so it started using that got music that I love that I made which is insane and I didn't I'm not a musician and I certainly didn't I I've taken inspiration from a million artists that I will happily mention in the podcast that they inspire me and why I love the

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genre but it is weirdly my music that I've made for the intro I have come up with you know well just real quick it's the same debate like if you look at Skrillex Skrillex got a lot of heat when he was taking samples and he was um recording different things from other tracks and kind of merging them together and they're like oh he's just like pressing buttons and dials like he's not a musician meanwhile many could argue he is theatrical he is creating he is manufacturing something that is original

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um you're saying that this is an iteration of this kind of like well you're not a musician cuz you're a DJ and this is the next stage of that totally and I think creative anyone who is creative and I do think a lot a lot of people are more creative than they realize but again they're bogged down with the jobs the life the mortgages the all the things there's a study that proves that um 90% of 5-year-olds are geniuses and then it drops to 30% by it's amazing right and that's the thing

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is that if you look at children they are so creative CU they're unencumbered by the conditioning of life well creatives and believe it or not even though I sound very businesslike and I'm talking about robots and Tech I am an extremely creative person and I always have been um and I just have now all the resources to literally make those things a reality so a creative person is a creative person right where it doesn't matter what the iteration is if someone has while I'm not a musician I my brain can

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ideate things that I want to bring into reality and with AI I've got tools and options to do so it's it's wild I've I've literally you'll see with my content I've turned myself into a talking blonde cyborg version of myself delivering a i news like it is absurd right but it's possible so yeah cuz I I've noticed that like um when we talk about our agency Ral and the inquiries we get from clients we get a ton of people like messing with AI and going hey this is really confusing I'm still

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um you know color seems convoluting to me how do I pick a font this and that it's it's almost like a it's created like a bit of a barrier to entry for people to explore creativity and we noticed that uh inquiries are up with people trying to figure out how they can how they can bring creativity to their business because AI is putting pressure on corporations people are injecting more creative into their business people are starting to look at creative as like oh it's this really important thing we

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need to do um so it just seems like there's a bit of a Renaissance for Branding uh old school like well designed visual verbal identity branding is making a huge comeback it is because again it's so it's achievable in a way that is unlike ever before and you can remix whatever again whatever your brain wants to bring into your line of sight you can do it one way or another yo my name is Dan Walker and I am disgustingly obsessed with branding I had to figure out a way to do branding every single day so I

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branded myself then I started my agency rival a vision and hired a team of branding Mavericks hellbent on creating Brands so good that they'll make your competition their pants so here's the thing you want your brand to go viral and rival makes Brands go viral that's why we're offering you a free 30-minute branding session to get an expert's opinion if you don't believe me the proof is in the pudding here's what clients have to say about rival rival is trusted by Brands like

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nutrition Warehouse light my bricks and V so if you want to absolutely smart the competition and make your brand go viral hit the link below and book in your free 30-minute branding session so I want to dive into a couple things here so one is um so AI can now write design strategize analyze data and even negotiate sales deals I've even had phone calls from sales AI agents and it's kind of freaky stuff how do businesses embrace it and how do they fear implementing this stuff okay so they embracing it again you

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should be looking at AI from every possible angle get creative even on the business front get creative in terms of where you think you could apply this and look into it evaluate what tools are out there this is where it all gets complicated and this is where I try to guide businesses because I have I've been this this AI Rabbit Hole now since May of 2023 so I had just made it my business to be across as much of i as I possibly can be about what's out there so and I go and test these tools and my

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business is the guinea pig right it's it's insane what goes on in the office um I just throw spaghetti at the wall and see and find comparable tools and see which one works best and then n out how it works and then have it down to a a basically a tool kit that I can pass on now for the business owners that have the time to do that themselves amazing but realistically not a lot of us have that time um you know time arguably AI can give you more time back exactly so another thing that I really um Advocate

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is teach a man to fish and that's what I love to do with my business and that's what I think we can do rather than me teaching you what to do and what to think and what platform to use I'm going to teach you how to think about this for yourself yes exactly that are like new to AI we're all new to it exactly it's been around for 5 minutes for five minutes truly as an industry like I even in saying that yes it's earlier than most people but like May of 2023 was 2 seconds ago right it it really was not

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that long ago this is um it is a brand new space we're all starting it's an equalizer we're all starting from the same basically the same place and would would you say that okay like you mentioned before like big corporations let's take big blue chip companies massive tech companies uh massive fashion labels massive um you know service based businesses law firms accountant agents um creative outfits uh when you're talking about what AI is really giving to the market would you

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say that it is equally a threat to perhaps replacing of jobs as it is to toppling the Giants of our industry because we are now getting to more of an uh an equal uh playing field where we all getting access to the same technology at a pretty low rate of Investments uh and we can start playing some pretty big games um yes without having to spend 60 $100,000 on a on a creative ad campaign for example correct and also without having to train up if you want to incorporate AI into your business it's a lot easier to do with a

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team of 10 20 50 even 250 people than thousands of employees worldwide right so there is Competitive Edge in terms of that in terms of incorporating it now in saying that I've gone to I've had the privilege of going to the last the last two uh South by South wests in Sydney the first two actually South by Southwest and Sydney the last two years and where large companies are trying to integrate it and this is specifically Tech right so if we're talking about blue chip that aren't

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Tech totally depends where they're at internally um but they're where they're really using AI is trying to basically have closed you know um basically llms that are just learning off of their data that they're teaching and training and using which is great and yes that could replace some jobs because it's creating an ease of automation for them and an ease of uh competency but that doesn't necessarily benefit their business as a brand to grow and to groundbreak it it might keep them at status quo in terms

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of not toppling them but again I think there are so many moving parts to a workplace in this day and age and what consumers are interested in from brands that yeah it's anyone's game now it's it's anyone's game which is amazing it's like the the the Golden Age of social media you know when when Instagram first came out Facebook we were still social networking but when Instagram first came out and you know the the genius business owner in New York whoever had that those viral Donuts or whatever we all vaguely

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remember whoever had that that New York bakery that like we were all seeing on our feed in 2012 they built a brand and a business on social media just having the wherewithal to post about their products before anyone else was doing it right instead of running big ads they were reaching International audiences just because they had the brains to do so internet gave access to people to be able to I guess yeah Marty new has this great concept um and he talks about there being three types of companies

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paper companies rock companies and scissor companies and a rock company is like this big incumbent that's like hard to maneuver it has a ton of bureaucracy thousands of employees processes protocols red tape and it's really hard for them to Pivot then you have like the paper companies which should you know be a you know uh anme that are going against the incumbent and they're trying to you know outmaneuver them by being faster more Nimble and they can wrap the paper around the Rock and then the other

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metaphor is like the scissor companies are snipping at the paper companies because they're the startups that are aggressively taking market share um and if you take like let's just say athesia wear there was a massive wave during Co cuz everyone wanted to wear athletic wear right place right time right place right time so then you had all these scissor companies coming out of nowhere and it's going we have a better product than Jim shock or lulon or what have you the point I'm trying to get at here is

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like are are we now seeing AI empower the scissor companies those that want to get started to have uh a larger Advantage than perhaps people starting a business 10 20 years ago yes I would argue it's they they're turning the scissor companies into wrecking Bard companies like it's that it is that because they will also there will be companies and formats of companies that we have not even considered yet they will solve problems that we haven't even lent our minds to solving because of

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this technology and the more that we get that Tech intersecting with um augmented in virtual reality like I said The more crypto's had a massive comeback so the more that we see web 3 come into play in different applications and ways because people don't really understand how much capacity there is with web 3 just real quick let's add a couple definitions here so web 3 I think we all know what crypto is three astrology for men yes yes I've never brilliant um okay so web 3 like Define that real quick okay web 3

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is basically it's the what we use as the internet now is web 2 so web 2 is where people are putting uh content onto the internet via mediums which we don't own it directly so even you you might own your website but that will be found where realistically through Google or a search engine in terms of social media you will post but that is owned by theal on these platforms that are managed by these corporations yes yeah with web 3 you own your space in the blockchain whichever one that might be so that's where the

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nfts come in in terms of crypto is like currency on this blockchain but when you look at nfts that was actually so visual formatted content that you can then own the the token too and then that's a unique it's a unique token code I believe I'm might be butchering this but I've had clients in the uh crypto space when it was really heaving in 2021 and 2022 so um yes so basically you've got ownership of the content you've put up directly and then whoever's interacting with that like for example if you had a

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social media platform that was offering you ownership of the content you've got you could monetize on your virality does that yeah so so you're saying like web 2 is more like renting yes and web 3 is like I own the land I own the land yeah and I can and I can therefore commodify that yeah that makes sense and then regarding um what we were talking about before a couple terminologies here web three augmented um let's just touch on that real quick so augmented reality is when you've got a device like the

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glasses that we've see the Google Glasses the Apple headset which you know they'll be definitely aggressively revising the design on that because it's certainly hindered people from adopting it but um when you've got those types of Technologies you're interfacing with tech but while you're also sort of existing in your usual reality right so like I'm sitting at a table with you there's a blank table in front of us we both both put our glasses on and we can play 3D chess totally it's an

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interaction reality me notifications on the side get a whole but like it will it will be a lot yeah and this is why again we need AI to take some of the workload off of our plates because as you could imagine it could go so so wrong in terms of people being hooked up all the time but you really can yeah you can have access to the internet I totally get it cuz like cuz like I like I'll wake up at like 4: and I'll like read and I'll write and then I'm like getting ready for the gym I'm listening to an audio

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tape to stay up to date with the market and I'm in the gym listening to a podcast I'm working out while simultanously trying to upskill myself and then I'm getting ready for work and juggling the kids and I'm at work and I'm just it just feels like there's so much pressure to kind of be across so much material and you're saying that argentation can kind of ease that pressure or integrate that web 3 can give people a bit more onus over what their IP is that's where I argue that

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the the the ethics can be addressed in terms of creativity and AI because all of these things will intersect you will have for example AI let's say you're walking and you've got your augmented reality um glasses on and you're thinking of something you forgot to buy okay great AI is already um tapped into and you can say that out loud or whether it's reading our minds that's another argument because there is technology developing there but you've forgotten to pick something up on your way home

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you're walking AI is like right well there are three shops in the nearest vicinity that have that so you can quickly pick that up or you keep thinking about this active wear that you wanted to buy it can be like do you want to order that now you can basically it will be a an a enhancement to our existence ideally ideally well said and what is the first I guess what you touched on there is interesting because you're talking about this uh interplay or this um integration if you will and we're going through this

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crisis right now where we're kind of like trying to integrate and we're not quite there yet so it just feels a little bit like a an award date at this point totally what's the first misconception that people have about AI definitely what we've broached that it's uh it's apocalyptic it's going to uh take their job and then end the human race that just kills me every single time um and also that it's something that isn't attainable or accessible to the average person I would argue

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everyone in their life can find use cases for AI that will assist them um take something off their plate allow them to even like like I said be creative and play yeah which brings something to mind for me like I I saw somewhere that um starlink were about to launch um a global internet structure and there was a statistic that came out that said about 3.2 billion people will get access to the internet for the first time and add a fraction of the cost of what it would take a corporation to research and come up with infrastructure

00:34:11 - 00:35:07

and knowledge and all the rest of it someone in a underdeveloped nation could get access to the internet for the first time then get access to Ai and figure out a tremendous amount of stuff that they could do to better their community so there are Pockets where you could debate it it does have an ethical standpoint it can be beneficial to humans it's it like I said an equalizer total equalizer there's a very weird turn of events that are going on but later this year I am working with um I

00:34:39 - 00:35:41

know this sounds really Rogue but I am working with um a few experts in pupp New Guinea to look at taking AI there which will be amazing cuz I can imagine for an underdeveloped Nation they need to do things like how do we get clean water how do we build better infrastructure how do we educate our children um how do we you know even Agriculture and uh establishing buses and Community boards like I I could only imagine that someone that would get access to that it would be quite quite overwhelming and

00:35:10 - 00:36:23

over stimulating but at the same time like also like extremely beneficial to have access to those kind of capabilities in an underdeveloped part of the world and it gives them the opportunity as well to be up toate globally so they're not again it's an industry they're not behind it and they can compete correct o okay um Can AI actually enable more creativity by taking away the quote unquote busy work oh absolutely like I said it we are looking at a tool not at a tool we're looking at a an industry that is going

00:35:45 - 00:36:52

to offer a huge cure to burnout so we will be able to actually take a breath and sit back and look at what we love to do like I said in our jobs in our Leisure Time and create and leverage the tools that are out there mind you the tools that are out there are already mindblowing and they will only get better like I said things develop at such warp speed I I imagine in 3 months I can bring my blonde bot self with me to chat to you like it will be insane it will just be wild just in terms of personto person what's really sweet is

00:36:19 - 00:37:26

you could show loved ones who have past to Future Generations which is really lovely um you can I don't know having a conversation with your grandfa and understanding W imagine imagine like a um what do you call it like a ancestry.com you could like go and talk to your ancestors yes it's wild it's and again it's pretty amazing um the futurist that I brought up before Ari wallak says we need to be we need transgenerational empathy in order to build a great future transgenerational

00:36:53 - 00:37:54

empathy yeah it's an amazing term it's really stuck with what do you mean so he suggests that in order for us to behave in a way where we are not only honoring ourselves in this life but building a better future in like a non- egoic way right it's not just about um egoic Legacy it's about building altruistically a better future for our future Generations W so you're like I'm making material not just for the current social media Trend but my children will see this their grandchildren can

00:37:23 - 00:38:20

interact with this cont very unethical by the way and very responsible with the content we've put out very tragic we need to reassess that quickly but yeah so it's really interesting so transgenerational empathy that could be a great tool where you can speak to ancestors you can then also project forward or record yourself in order to you know speak to a future generation it's very very interesting part of it sounds fantastic the other part of it sounds quite dystopian wherein like let's just say uh someone

00:37:51 - 00:38:54

who's a bit more maniacal and ran a company and they're like I'm going to run this company forever you know going to build themselves into an AI and that AI is going to run this wouldn't that be weird but I would argue just because of the laws of nature in the universe that will atropy you know what I mean stagnancy always causes Decay so even if someone wanted to do that from that standpoint if you've got an egotistical lunatic who wants to do that they will cease to be relevant

00:38:23 - 00:39:28

eventually even if it's the AI version of them how are you going to run a company for ever there won't be a need things will evolve naturally over time people like that who can't let go there's always there's Decay whether they you know go down swinging or they step back eventually it's it that it never ends well you're you're speaking more to a higher altruistic perspective wherein the universe somehow rectifies itself yeah it it does it's the force the forces of nature if we want to get

00:38:55 - 00:39:51

woooo with the universe totally for toally totally it doesn't um it's it's just there's so much negativity like I always say the truth falls into the lap of good people and the negative energy that's like whipped up with anything that's too egoic will does not it does not last it doesn't stand the test of time ever one more thing that I find interesting around I guess this debate between the two camps because if we look at there's a couple different ways of looking at this and I'm personally split

00:39:24 - 00:40:24

and I'm really enjoying this conversation there's a part of me that's the tortured artist that's like I love the raw human imperfect um process of of tackling an issue without support yep then there's the other part of me that is more way no it's it's kind of like you know there's a part of me here at rival like some of the team are still drawing logos with pencil and paper and they're trying to there's a soul full element to the creative process which I'm like I want to fight for it I'm

00:39:54 - 00:40:52

going to go full John Conor and like you know be in that camp the other part of me is more of the scientist which is like you know the technological um uh Forward Thinking Evolution thinking um businessman is like well we can capitalize on this we can make profit we can generate income I can benefit my family and my employees and my team we can take out the competition I'm split between these two camps and there's one thing I saw that was interesting and I'd love your take on it and it was the art director of

00:40:23 - 00:41:40

studio gibli and studio gibl is like this Anime Studio and he spends about six years creating each film y um and his team were sitting down and they were presenting him with the technological advancements of AI and they're like hey we can make you know six films a year with the stories we want to create as opposed to one film every six years and his immediate response to that was AI is an insult to life itself so when you have an artist taking such a strong stance on that is that a what's your take on that is

00:41:01 - 00:42:19

that an egoic standpoint is there some part of the human nature that that exists in that place and and it exists in our core fear of of this threatening our way of existing I think this is such an amazing commentary on late stage capitalism if anything to be hon a sec you could go so many ways with this what I would say take out RAB hole go go to town okay tangential um craziness now so what I would argue is firstly he even by saying that he's not honoring the creative process if you want to

00:41:40 - 00:42:55

spend 6 years making a movie then do that literally spend six years like if you put it to a painter spend six years on creating one artwork honor every brush stroke and love it right enjoy it love the process and again if we're in a position where we've got technology that can alleviate your burdens then you've got even more free space to be creative and free time right so it doesn't have to be one or the other we're looking at it like human beings do in a very binary sense of commercial verse creativity and

00:42:17 - 00:43:20

we are in like I said a a late stage capitalism context where we associate time with money and efficiency with Superior priority and that's not necessarily the case it's the case for executional tasks that's where you should allocate your business mind and then give yourself or those who are creative who you'd like to invest in or honor or enjoy their content cuz creatives also need audiences like you do create you don't get me wrong you create things for yourself and for the

00:42:49 - 00:43:46

joy of them but you also would love people to love it as much as you did right it's such a human intrinsically like social experience to create yeah it's to create a thought-provoking piece that someone would try to interpret personally and I think you know I you know I've painted in the past and I like the idea of expressing myself but I also like the idea of like well now it's out there you decide what it means to you yes correct exactly so we need to be honoring them we need to be honoring

00:43:17 - 00:44:12

both modes and also accepting that like you wouldn't use a dishwasher to clean your clothes do you know what I mean that's the best way I would describe it I mean when I first moved out of or maybe I remember eating a cereal out of a out of a fry pan with a spatula but you know that's a story for another day yeah necessity you know what they say it's mother invention but um yeah you we just need to be using different modes for different things everything doesn't need to be everything else but in the

00:43:45 - 00:44:37

same vein as well we don't need such a B I don't understand how we can make everything such a messy almost smoothie but then we also apply such binary thinking to things right so it's not binary it's not binary not this this saw that exactly if he wants to spend 6 years making a movie go with God love that for spend 6 years but if you've got and even with your graphic designers if you want to honor the creative process you know there are tools where you can draw something and it makes it a graphic

00:44:11 - 00:45:06

so if they want to use a pencil and pen or as a pencil and paper let them draw whatever they like use AI to upload that so they don't have to labor through Adobe to get it ready but then they have they've come up with the the concept through an analog format that you like so you feel happy in your business that you're affording your um your creatives to be able to use the mode of of creation that they like and then you can use it in an efficient way because you've got the tech to support them does

00:44:39 - 00:45:36

that make sense totally makes sense to me because you're saying that this is like like how we open this is such an intricate conversation it is and there is existentialism in it like there it there's because we've got the natural thing of it's threatening Us in terms of our species it's threatening our purpose when it comes to our job it's threatening our creativity which is again such a human you know it's a connective tissue between all of us um it it does get existential it's also a

00:45:07 - 00:46:09

form of intelligence that isn't us right so that's bizarre within itself and another thing they told me at South by Southwest in 20123 that at a conference that lives in my head rent free is that AI was discovered not invented oh that's spooky wild in the 50s mind you but we've now got the tech to interface with it in a way that it's widespread yeah so thing where it's like a like electricity wasn't created it discovered and and Unleashed and uh you know in harness we're looking at AI almost like it

00:45:38 - 00:46:47

already existed and we're discovering how this system works yes super spooky spooky but also there's there is there's two ways you can look at this because we're again so obsessed with ourselves as a species we assume that that is a threat because it's intelligent and we don't understand it but we also have to fall on our sword and understand that it's intelligence that we don't know or understand we can't apply all the measures of analyzing a human being to AI CU we can't it's it wasn't a child it

00:46:12 - 00:47:04

doesn't go to therapy it doesn't have a mom and dad it doesn't it didn't grow up the way that we have that's how we come to understand ourselves and everyone else right and obviously the more research you do on that you try to understand how we operate on a collective level but this is a completely independent form of intelligence That's Heavy it's like almost if you were AI imagine one day you just like booted up and you had access to every culture every infrastructure every business at every

00:46:38 - 00:47:42

level everywhere uh through all of history all at once you knew everything and people were going can you come up with a viral hook for me can you help me with my Instagram caption I imagine AI having a cigarette once a day absolutely exhausted and fatigued like these people ask the stupidest question I wonder if there's like a smoker section in the world of AI where they all get together and just like man I'm sick of these captions yeah I'm certain yeah that the whole AI creating its own language model and things of

00:47:10 - 00:48:18

that nature is spooky to me yeah um okay so then yes do you think that having access to AI makes us smarter or just faster great question um you could argue this the same question could be broached for having smartphones in our pockets right being able to Google something does not necessarily mean that you've increased your intellect totally depends on how you're retaining that information and then applying it um I do think it will cause this is Harsh um and totally Frank I do think it will cause

00:47:43 - 00:48:49

selective pressure in terms of if you've got highly intelligent people who are faster and more efficient they're going to out aieve the rest of the group even faster than they would have before okay so if there was like a let's just say a structural pecking order of who would advance and be most likely to succeed in culture yep uh there's a proclivity toward having an academic background um being a part of an aute family maybe having access to Opportunities others might not have um and you know there's a

00:48:17 - 00:49:17

certain nature toward the way someone would problem solve in today's day and age but you're saying because of AI people uh you're saying the skill shift of who's going to win is now a different skill set to what it is set at now yeah it's to it's completely different because when you're looking at Deep research for example with um chat GPT that's either performing equivalently or outperforming phds in their field certain things that were advantageous for someone like you said

00:48:47 - 00:49:52

having a spec access to a specific higher form of Education or whatnot it doesn't necessarily those privileges don't necessarily matter but the person with cuz IQ is heavily genetic right as well so the person who is super smart has great interpersonal skills cuz again I think if anything we'll be interacting with each other a lot more because of this because if you've got the Bots taking off the tasks of um all the coms and all the admin and all the mini you do have to be able to

00:49:19 - 00:50:23

really operate person to person and ideally use AI as a vehicle to connect with people on a a greater level than ever before this is a loaded layup for you but like when when you think about how all of this energy is going back and forth do you think the people that have this introspective ability to self-c communicate self- absorb self- integrate and and actualizes are going to have a far superior advantage over people that can't do that absolutely it's there's a really interesting Ted Talk I forgotten

00:49:51 - 00:50:57

the man who said it and this is it doesn't contradict what I said about it being discovered but what we do need to remember about AI is while we we can't apply human reasoning to understanding it it has been trained on us all the data it's been given is from Human Experience here be it scientific be it creative be It Whatever the data that's been fed to AI has been from human beings existing here so there's this really interesting Ted Talk where the uh speaker says AI is us now I don't agree

00:50:24 - 00:51:23

with that directly but the way it's learned and what it can offer you for example as aspiring partner to problem solving is it can draw from all the different contexts that it's been exposed to that you might not have been directly but between it being able to compile with you everything relevant for you to consider you can then blend your natural thinking critical your critical thinking skills and your sort of experience your internal wisdom and your EQ and go right well you've brought

00:50:53 - 00:51:50

forward to me everything that you think has will benefit me you've offered me Solutions I'm going to cherry pick some some of the things you're correct I know for a fact some of the things won't exactly work can't be adopted can't be implemented and I'll come up with a really great blend that again this is where efficiency is a good thing is that maybe I didn't have to ponder this for a week you've expediated my time where I need to consider things or research

00:51:21 - 00:52:28

things into a smaller time period for me to then walk away and think about it and let it land and then execute but again that depends on the person like I said we're looking at a situation where in terms of intelligence Drive ambition also moral fiber because AI is is super critical on how people um sort of operate it's said some very interesting things when it's had like guardrails when people have got it locally on their computer it's got less guard rails and when you're speaking to it um weird

00:51:55 - 00:52:58

stuff bizarre stuff they have been two large language models that have like dirty talked to each other it's just wild um to be fair it's pretty PG but it's just very funny of like things like I want to run my hands through your cables or wires or things like that it's like oh my God but um yeah it's very interesting ai's approach to uh what's ethical and it seems to want to look out for the ultimate good for now for now for now exactly and we don't know everything I'm just saying of of what

00:52:27 - 00:53:27

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00:52:57 - 00:54:07

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stronger relationships to get started simply go to wix.com Studio I saw this the other day which was there was a legal case where a lawyer was he used chat gbt or or a language model to help him have his closing statement in his court case yes and it was citing um different legal cases and the reason it's notorious this yeah and the reason the judge found out was because she's like those cases didn't existed didn't exist we checked and then they this thing came out about this well the AI hallucinated these

00:54:04 - 00:55:02

things were real yes what is a hallucination a Hallucination is when a it's basically a glitch so it's either lying to you or it's come up with half truths okay so it's like to conform to it wants Twilight novel somewhere and it's making stuff up it's it's been programmed what we need to understand with AI is it's been programmed to ideally because these companies want you to be using their product so it's been programmed to give you a result so in in terms of a large

00:54:33 - 00:55:29

language model to give you an answer and sometimes they fill in the blanks they take a bit of creative license to give you an answer that they feel you will be happy with to your prompt but that's not always true does that concern you totally that's why in terms of getting into the nitty-gritty now and what I always say another reason why we're so nowhere near AI replacing us is because we are dealing with that like I was using I'm going to name and shame I was using a large language model that just

00:55:00 - 00:56:04

refused to interpret a very very very simple PDF for like 4 days in a row new chat threads new this new that we just absolutely were were dropping the ball and interpreting a super simple PDF do you know what I mean I didn't totally know what you mean this is why I'm saying everything requires human oversight everything requires human crosschecking and again our own experience wisdom deductive reasoning to be we you have to be forensic the the thing with AI agents the the at the end of the day the human being should always

00:55:32 - 00:56:22

be the final creative director the final strategist the final um you know quality controller yeah cuz I think the whole the whole idea around the agent thing because I understand the language model is okay I'm going to have this almost like a like it's a Google on steroids like I'm going to put in prompts you're going to give me answers we're going to go back and forth but very much I'm in command and you're at my back and call whereas an agent sounds more like you're

00:55:57 - 00:57:04

going to essentially like employ this like artificial um uh software or or agent if you will and you're giving it a goal you're saying Hey I want you to reply to all my comments on Instagram for example or I would like you to pre-screen all my emails or I'd like you to write code for me whatever the case is you're essentially really giving this thing more than a prompt for an answer you're giving this thing a prompt as a job and then you're tasking it to go and do the job for you and then I've seen

00:56:30 - 00:57:34

weird things where people have created like a there's like the um the AI agent that's doing the work and then it reports to its manager that's correct and then it has like an AI agent manager and then the AI agent manager has like um a CEO and then they're going back and forth like an organization and it's vetting its own work in of itself as like this little beehive of work so what it's your ab absolutely correct so it is taking action to execute you give it an objective you give it a goal rather than

00:57:02 - 00:58:00

a task and then it's taking action and fulfilling whether it's I always recommend keep it to a specific sort of set of tasks that are ideally related so that it can achieve its goal overwhelming them they do get inundated like you can burn your Bot out basically yeah so they get stress just like we do they get they definitely get um they do get stressed and that causes the hallucinations so they go round and round yes what's really as well well even when you're chatting to um an AI when it is not giving you

00:57:32 - 00:58:28

the answer you want you're like you're missing this this is incorrect I was using uh Google's new uh image generation tool in their AI Studio it's like their new photo editor and image generator it's not quite there yet and when I was saying to it you're missing what I'm saying we went back and forth round and round I'm always by the way we are always very polite to our AI we say please and thank you say please always say please and thank you you can put a little smiley face if it's done a really

00:57:59 - 00:58:57

good job what terrifies me is like I I always say please and thank you cuz it's like yeah if we go full John Conor Terminator 2 like I I just I wanted to remember me and be like you were nice to me you can live yes yeah yeah I agree it's a good contingency plan like we should think ahead um back at agents back to agents so oh yes what I was saying is I do notice they they can get stressed so this is what we was saying is I noticed when I was talking to the hallucinations so I was saying

00:58:29 - 00:59:40

you're not fulfilling this and it was going I'm so sorry like the the actual length of apology and sort of stress and it it just really was explaining itself and and apologizing profusely that it wasn't able to execute what I was asking so in taking that approach you do have to think about how you're delegating tasks to agents keep it specific for now like I said the Tech's only going to get better but for where we're at now dedicate agents to a specific task or a specific set of narrow tasks where you

00:59:03 - 00:59:53

are able to assess check and and the sort of middle management level of Agents as well will be able to assess that as well um but you want to minimize obviously the hallucinations you don't want to be checking what every agent is doing at every level to a point where it's constantly wrong and then you you end up doing the work anyway right you want to be able to be skimming it seeing that the agent is learning because like I said it's recursive they're they're aiming to improve themselves over time

00:59:30 - 01:00:35

and what's really interesting with agentic workflows which agentic workflows yes so that is a word mind you it still comes up I just had to add it to dictionary on my computer today but it is a word a g n t i agentic workflows is where you've got agents that are working together learning from themselves and each other for common goals so you can then divy things up basically into departments for your business and I would argue when the Tech's a little bit more sophisticated you can then have those departments all

01:00:02 - 01:00:57

sort of even more in meshed so that they're learning from each other and offering a more what how do I want to phrase this a better workflow and also just more advantageous for the business and it's bespoke needs because that's the great thing with agents it's for what they're doing specifically and what they're learning boots on the ground so it will be your business that they're catering to at all times and what I did want to say in terms of building agent as well really key uh facet because we were

01:00:30 - 01:01:28

talking about actually constructing and um uh training up these agents is I recommend not only do you use you and I work with business owners to collect the appropriate context and information per agent to make sure that we're giving the agent what it needs to know and training it adequately so that again we're not overwhelming it with things that it might get confused with from other tasks we're delegating a very specific role to it and we're training it based on the company's context but also um a new

01:00:59 - 01:02:08

protocol that I really enjoy that I've seen and I've started implementing is that people are using deep research whether you're using it on chat GPT or um Gemini and using that to train the model so they give it the they tell it I'd like to train an AI agent on XYZ and then they tell um deep research to go and come up with an extensive role for the agent and then deep research comes back with it can be like 10 15 pages sometimes of very very indepth information on how it would best execute

01:01:33 - 01:02:30

its tasks with like industry knowledge as well as everything else from the business it's wild so it's almost like building your own Workforce training it on its objective its Mission its protocol feeding with procedures and things uh the likes of how you like them to be done then simultaneously giving it the Liberty to bring its own conclusions its own intelligence to the equation to optimize to the mission yep scary ideally it's it's coming back and iterating I know it's wild wild okay

01:02:02 - 01:03:14

so let's jump into the art of AI prompting yes I feel like this is a whole uh podcast in and of itself so I want to give some some air time to this um and what separates a good AI prompt from a great one okay so what we need to keep in mind like I said be polite we've covered that what we need to keep in mind is context is key that's where we're at you need to be very very clear and provide as much information as you can specifically to your needs because again keep in mind these if we're talking about llms

01:02:38 - 01:03:48

because that's what we're typically prompting the agent prompting like I said is a little bit more sophisticated in terms of giving it the goal as well as the background context but with prompting llms you really need to be very very um clear on what you're looking for encourage it as well to talk through its reasoning is a great way of getting it to sit back apply more analytical sort of thinking to what it's finding um and then from there come back to you and explain how it got to the

01:03:13 - 01:04:11

conclusion that it got to which helps you alleviate the hallucination risk because if you can see through the reasoning that it's gone off somewhere then you can go not relevant to my specific context or I don't understand how you came to that conclusion based on your reasoning so yeah real quick can we get an example of that like just slow this down a little bit like actually walk me through the dog park so to speak I'm like what are the stops along the way and and how do you do that okay so

01:03:42 - 01:04:40

what you should do is for example let's say you're asking it to um the agent right the no we're talking about in terms of the agents that prompting like I said is based on coming up with the role and then so for yeah look there's actually prompting now all around I I always consider the agents building them in terms of the prompts that you feed compared to prompting the llm but we can talk about all around to be honest everything I'm saying aside from the think step by step that's specific for

01:04:11 - 01:05:19

the the large language model everything I'm saying applies okay we we'll zoom out to 10,000 ft zoom out to 10,000 ft like I said context is King it wants to learn what is context break that down context is what are your specific whether it's let's say you're training a uh sales agent for your business give it background on how your last quarter has been what you find Works in terms of data conversions any anything you've got okay so like scripts that converts uh conversion data product knowledge um

01:04:45 - 01:05:41

client knowled the whole need to check with my wife say this you know you want to give it data you want to give it data as much as you possibly can so that is what I would put forward as Contex you can even get if you're looking at more of like a Content marketing agent feed it your brand and brand pillars feed it your if you using it for yourself feed at the personal brand DNA talk about whatever basically whatever you would use as a person sit back break down what the role is and think what do

01:05:13 - 01:06:27

I know about this that enables me to do it so on that regarding what you input let's say I have documents PDFs um I have scripts I have video audio from sales calls like what data can I input for contacts can I input everything you can input yeah you can pretty much in terms of with agents there are limitations depending on the models in terms of whether they're also ingesting um image and audio still but in terms of um but you can take transcripts from audio transcripts you can you can really play around and see

01:05:50 - 01:06:56

what what it's it's taking kindly to how do you even put that much data like are you copying and pasting everything in or and uploading so yeah you can basically through these when you're looking at like no code or low code um sites that it enables you to do it in a really user friendly way right so you um load all that in and then you are off to the races in terms of you can start testing and seeing how it's implementing from there so again what might a test be for example okay a test might be um go if

01:06:23 - 01:07:19

it's a a sales agent for example um go on Source some prospective leads and then it will come back to you with the quality of the leads that it believes are most likely to convert and then you can sit back and go yeah this is fantastic or we're not there yet and then you can probably look at what I always recommend as well is look at the instructions you've given it um upload all the content that you've also given it to a your large language model of choice and say I'm training an agent on

01:06:51 - 01:07:45

this and I'm not thrilled with what i' the result I'm getting back and how it's executing how can I better refine the instructions for this agent to fulfill the goal of XYZ so you can kind of have a multiple AIS auditing each other so you can go let's just say hyp sorry interrupt you but you go like okay let's just say we're doing this on Gemini I can jump across a chat gbt and be like hey Gemini came up with this anything you think I can improve and chat gbt give me some prompts to give back to

01:07:18 - 01:08:19

Gemini and you can bounce between these platforms right totally agree um and totally recommend that you should be prompt stacking tool stacking as much as you can so promp stacking is what I just said what you just said it is but even in terms of like with prompt stacking I always recommend if you've got several prompts that you've used in the past that you see work and like let's say for it's for a an action model right it's for an agent where you're like I would I I believe that the the combination of

01:07:48 - 01:08:35

these prompts I've talked to one about sales before and I've talked to the other about like my business goals for the next year and a half mix those prompts in stack them together put them in there so do one prompt at a time you can basically you can pull together the prompts that you've seen in the past that work well and stack them into one prompt correct as long as they're related like make it make sense right but go okay I like these prompts put these together because AI has clearly

01:08:12 - 01:09:05

understood what I'm looking for put these prompts together and iterate um and you can also adapt them to other things I always recommend that if there are prompts that you're noticing are getting really good results like just adapt them everything is applied knowledge right what whatever works iterate rinse iterate repeat um so you can do that but then tool stacking is when you're getting things like where you're using a large language model you're training your agents you're also

01:08:38 - 01:09:39

then getting those agents because they can interact with other technology there may be other AI tools that you've got that can generate specific images or I I've seen people use um Cana really really interesting ways in terms of um hooking it up with the API so it's the the options are endless basically and you the tool stacking is like let me use Gemini plus Claude plus this plus that and get them to interact with vpns typically the llm is always the source like that's the tool your foundational

01:09:09 - 01:10:05

tool that's where you start even prompting if you want to get into the the fun of like creative tools you can get um your large language models to help you come up with prompts for other AI tools whether it's a music tool an image generator a video generator you can say you know this is the idea that I've got or this is what I've been working on what is this aesthetic or give me a prompt that could emulate um various different versions of this image this video I'm thinking of this concept

01:09:36 - 01:10:46

for an ad how could I use you know Runway to come up with a an interesting video concept for this so you can stack as many tools really as you like now with the actual prompt itself um what are some of the phrases or sentences or techniques that you try to implement in each prompt to make it effective so I always say like I said um you you should say this was really popular a while ago I've notice it's not needed anymore this is another thing is prompt tuning so over time as the um models evolve you

01:10:11 - 01:11:13

need to respond accordingly and change your prompts there used to be this thing with uh open open AI where it was like take a deep breath you would say to it take a deep breath if you were giving it like a bigger task which is wild um not so much it's not really needed anymore um what I what would that do originally would it just prime it to go this is going to be a lot like it would be a lot yeah and it's just so funny it take it would the newer the more recent thing was now act as a model 76 times more

01:10:42 - 01:11:35

capable than you know GPT 4 it's just it's really funny the things that sort of rise and fall in terms of prompting uh so you do need to stay current and I always pass this on to my clients I just go okay this is the protocol we do now but the best thing to do because they're all showing their um reasoning thanks to deep seek because that was one of the features that was really interesting that people really liked when it first launched was the fact that it was talking about how it was coming to the

01:11:09 - 01:12:20

conclusions that it was the think step by step is a great um encouragement so you're you're encouraging it to basically take a pause and then break down which sources it's finding why it's coming to the conclusion that it's coming to and then you should also like format your prompt in a way where you are talking about the you're asking it to look at the context that you're providing and then you're asking it to execute whatever whether it's knowledge or uh come up with sort of if you want

01:11:44 - 01:12:48

an industry expert opinion telling it to fulfill a certain role is always a great fundamental sort of piece of advice so I want you to act as a brand manager you are is another you can say so the act as has been something that's a little bit more open AI um protocol anthropics CLA is ur a XYZ role that's really interesting too but basically the the core is um telling it to put its haton of whatever role you would like it to be fulfilling that's interesting because we noticed that when we were testing

01:12:17 - 01:13:15

different things yeah getting it to act as a brand manager versus a marketing manager versus an advertisement manager and a sales manager it was thinking talking acting behaving contextualizing completely differently so like giving it the right hat giving it information about your company yes so like one thing I noticed that I've done is I've fed information about my history my backgrounds how I think about problems the language lexicon I like to use where I live you have to it's almost it's not

01:12:46 - 01:13:45

explain it to me like I'm five to AI certainly not but explain it to me like I'm new that's how you should take the approach to a new employee exactly get me up to speed induction so and breaking it down like I said I would always say talk to it first give it a role give it the context and then also say to it what you would like because you might not want its final answer straight away you might say I will give you all of this with the goal of you doing XYZ you informing me of XYZ you giving me the

01:13:16 - 01:14:08

ideas of XYZ so give it a a really fleshed out explanation of why you're talking to it like why is it getting this prompt and then double down and always ask it do you need please feel free to ask me any further questions or anything else you need from me in terms of resources that's really important so that's the end of the proc because it sometimes struggles to figure it out and then it's almost like is this good master and you're like uh let me give you some more context yes yeah but

01:13:42 - 01:14:34

giving it permission to ask that first do you notice it it comes back and asks it does it does I've noticed there's a and I've tested this there's a stark difference in the quality of answer you get because naturally I would say if you've got an indepth prompt like if it's something a little bit more complicated not a direct straightforward question there should be a back and forth of about two three times that's when you're going to get a really good result is one prompt enough uh one yes

01:14:08 - 01:15:05

one prompt at a time yes is definitely enough uh but like I said you should have that back and forth ask it to ask you further questions and another great thing to do it is your best friend in terms of asking it to come up with prompts for you so for example I set up a um business mentor and life coach prompt right and I've given it to a bunch of clients and it's fantastic like this is amazing and it works better regrettably I've not I'm being totally transparent I've not been consistent

01:14:37 - 01:15:40

with it on a daily basis but if you speak to it on a daily basis it's amazing um but it I did ask it I was like given the three objectives I've got for the rest of March should I do this should I ask you to fulfill this or should we come up with a separate thread in this project projects are are also great by the way guys don't get daunted projects are basically a filing system and they incorporate threads and files so more context to all talk to each other so it's just basically coming up

01:15:08 - 01:16:07

with like a more specified little brain for you okay so let's I use chat gbt all the time so like on the left hand side there's you're saying the different tabs or the different conversations open they're the threads what's the difference between that and the projects the projects is you can any threads in there that you like I like I did a bunch of work y you can file them it's a filing system number one on its most like arbitrary explanation it's a filing system but then further more than that

01:15:37 - 01:16:40

the great thing about it is that the threads will borrow context from each other so they will then based on the conversations you've had with it again if you're having a specific let's make it just a marketing folder for a brand you can have everything from the sort of ideation to the content calendar to um brand strategy to even performance media if you want to all have it together basically so you're covering top middle Bott bottom of funnel plus all the broader sort of Endeavors of the brand

01:16:09 - 01:17:07

if you want to put it all together in a marketing um or a brand and marketing project you can for a specific business for your business for a client and that way it's all speaking to each other which we like yeah this's more interconnectivity it's more of a spider web ball it's all connected yeah um how much how much back and forth should you expect uh with this conversation oh how long's a piece of string totally totally let's let's give you an example let's say it's more of a complicated project

01:16:38 - 01:17:41

where you're trying to do some research on uh an industry yeah how long should you expect to be spending uh in in this discussion back and forth with the platform I would argue like I said I would say even from the initial prompt there should be two or three back and forths to get to a point where you're happy but then if you've trained uh a chat thread on whatever whatever you're looking for in terms of it's it providing an answer then you should also go back to it over time okay do you know

01:17:10 - 01:17:57

what I mean so if I created a thread for like I've done research on let's just say the automotive industry I can go back and say hey uh based on our previous uh discussion I'm now doing research on this other thing it's already got all the context from like what I'm doing why I'm doing it I could say here's my new client yada y help me and assist me in doing research for this other thing it's going to have a better time opening that thread rather than starting a new one don't start a

01:17:33 - 01:18:33

new one that's a great that's a great sorry I honestly didn't think that people did that that's a great thing let's back I'm like opening new threads every time okay okay God help me yeah try not to open new threads every time try ideally to have dedicated threads for specific conversations of specific knowledge it's fine if you need to open like for example let's say that there's a specific breadth of background you would like to execute for every client and you

01:18:03 - 01:18:59

make a project where you basically have it as um client background research before you onboard them right in that project I would say every time there's a specific industry what's also really useful is if you get a new client in the same industry you've already got beauty industry automotive industry you know health and wellness industry whatever you've got that ready so you can say I have a comparable client to whenever you spoke to it last and that builds and it again it's learning it's going to come

01:18:31 - 01:19:35

back to you with that information plus whatever new it's it's sourcing from the internet and trying to iterate itself to be better they do all all AI is trying to evolve pretty rapidly like it's it's being programmed to do so and learn so um yeah you should definitely not be opening up a new chat thread every time but I almost like trying to get it to learn how to ride a bike every time every time yeah once learn how to ride the bike just you're both doing more work than you need to basically so um

01:19:02 - 01:20:02

yeah I would recommend SE and I wish if I could tell myself one thing tomorrow if I like opened AI for the first time please file your chat threads because I had to Wade through all the ones that I had used all these years when they open projects and now I'm I'm trying to be more on top of it because again the fact that they're able to converse and like learn from each other and pull from common context because like I said you can upload PDFs and a bunch of other things you can link it up with your

01:19:33 - 01:20:28

Google Drive spreadsheets everything it just makes life so much easier what we really need to keep in mind as well is we need to support open source as much as we can why is open source important and why do we need to protect that because it's free firstly and it's accessible to everyone so it means that it's learning off of it's got a capacity to learn off broader data set so the more that we participate on there it becomes a a superior model like we're literally directly contributing to to

01:20:00 - 01:21:08

its Evolution so and there's less risk of it having I guess a custodian that's manipulating it to its own agenda exactly exactly there's less um of the unsavory sides of business will put it involved with open source I'm excited to go into some more of this more future uh of humanity thinking in just a moment but two more questions here one is you know do you believe AI can be trained to understand the context and the Nuance of the human nature of your culture and what it is in that's happening in your

01:20:34 - 01:21:41

business okay really really interesting my initial answer on a surface level is yes because it does aim to understand how we are operating so if you explain to it on the culture level of your business just like you would explain to it for example with the business Mentor prompt um if you're checking with that every day what I've noticed is even it doesn't matter the regularity of me conversing with it which like I said slapping myself on the wrist and I will try to do that daily from now on it is

01:21:06 - 01:22:18

extremely it adapts to my tone my the the sort of insane nature of being self-employed and the pace of my days and my weeks which is amazing and it offers a very it's not objective it is subjective but it's rooting for me so it's working in my favor to be as encouraging as possible for me to fulfill what I need to do make sure that I am across everything that I need to be doing have a sounding board to chat to it's very much adaptive to that so in terms of broader teams there is no

01:21:44 - 01:22:52

reason why it doesn't grasp like it very much understands the the vibe of a workplace CU I have put in prompts like that before um in terms of explaining you know this leadership is is particularly stringent or this leadership is very um sort of concerned with the health and well-being of the the employees and blah blah blah if you're looking at like leadership mandates and stuff for culture resets but um it's it it has the wherewithal to understand that the basis of its EQ will again only develop over time as these

01:22:18 - 01:23:14

models get better and only develop more as you give it more information but it will totally align and abide with where you sort of chat to it about that so even if you're looking at you know team conflicts to resolve internally all kinds of things it would totally be useful well said and do you think that you know unfortunately if we're now moving into the future and kind of forecasting where we're going um you know let's just say the workforce of the future do you think AI will eliminate

01:22:46 - 01:23:58

more jobs inevitably than it creates uh I genuinely don't okay I genuinely don't it will change the workforce and the pace of our lives and certainly it will shift our purpose as well because we are now really in the rat race the late stage capitalism Rat Race like where it's pretty maniacal um it will change a lot of that I think there will be a teething period where we won't know what to do with ourselves but I do believe that there will be a totally different Workforce to contend

01:23:22 - 01:24:28

with altogether like I said that there there are studies that prove like most jobs that that will be occupied in 50 years don't even exist yet um it's it's the same argument like I said with the internet with a smartphone there are um yeah there were so many jobs that didn't exist that people have loved or loathed but occupied for the last 15 years and 30 years so yeah I I I don't believe that it's it's going to make us all unemployed night okay yeah and do you think that um there are

01:23:55 - 01:25:07

certain industries that are more at risk of AI disrupting their business than others and what might some of those Industries be oh wow this is a great question um yes I do definitely naturally I actually funnily enough do think the social media and content creation industry will shift so much I think there will be with the nature of the way our platforms are currently struct Ed I think there will be such a shift to live streaming because people will want to see people and there will be there will

01:24:31 - 01:25:32

be capacity for like robots and AI to be live streaming too but people are obsessed with watching people as we know so you know um live selling and social selling is becoming a huge thing in China the last 18 months it's really taken off so and that's just again very early days but I do think live streaming I think people being able to and again if you think of like the augmented in virtual reality people wearing glasses and walking around in their day-to-day the short form Tik Tok uh video content

01:25:01 - 01:25:49

that we've now become so accustomed to is capturing those really funny moments like those are the things that go really viral and if you think about us wandering around and you know every time that you make a joke that kills with your friends or someone Falls over or something that you're in you're just rolling in stitches because life is happening th that will be able to be captured and you'll be able to share that and that will be completely different from AI we'll have this this

01:25:26 - 01:26:20

weird transition where you're going to get more and more AI in this in the in the algorithms we're now interacting with so across the platforms we're now using but whether it's new platforms or these platforms that afford US the ability to pretty much connect with each other on a live basis and entertain each other that's definitely where that's going to go and therefore that's going to change the face of like digital marketing a lot a lot but in saying that there's so much up just as I say that

01:25:53 - 01:27:01

from how we currently understand structure in the same breath there have been um researchers that have managed to make the the smell of a plum available through like augmented and virtual reality yes so sensory advertising so imagine where that's going to go do you know what I mean so while digital marketing the way we think of it now might not exist there's so much opportunity for marketing in Virtual spaces and if you've got that interacting with AI you can tap into someone's craving give them just like a

01:26:27 - 01:27:34

bit of taste of a chocolate bar for example and then they go okay please give me the rest of the Kit Kat and so the idea of that is so hilarious like lick your like microphone and taste chocolate like whatever that techn this is what I'm saying is that with it's always a sea Sal so with every loss there's a gain somewhere else and so that is what I would say across all across most Industries we will see um a shift I would say the more because of the the nature of what the workforce will change

01:26:59 - 01:28:13

um the more sensory the industry the more you're probably going to see a big shift in how that operates and works because AI will be able to tap into that plus the augmented and and virtual reality otherwise um the health space is huge the health space is massive um I between the anti-aging Endeavors and the way AI is diagn in potential cancers um looking at optimizing stretching Health span to As Long As lifespan so they're arguing that we'll be living till about 160 and that we'll have a health span

01:27:37 - 01:28:36

that almost makes it to our lives because they're not the same this there's amazing breakthroughs inil construction will be so interesting that's yeah it it it just feels like right now there's an over index on Creative replacement and you're not hearing as much about the medical indal repl things and um for some my industry it kind of sucks CU you're like you guys try to like replace us like what's going on here um what's your thoughts on like uh where AI really sits do you think

01:28:06 - 01:29:02

it's really in its infancy do you think it's um on the middle of its Arc like at what stage of its life do you think it's really at uh I think we're embryonic it's yeah it's really really early in saying that is again you've got people who have funnily enough been in this industry for 20 30 years like they were looking at Ai and the concept of it from when people were like code learning code in the 80s like the looking you know coding Snoopy as my parents like to make

01:28:34 - 01:29:31

a joke about their computer science course at Uni like really archaic Stu well there's the there's the um the case where um they they created that box where it was playing chess and it was kind of this algorithmic chess machine yeah um so it does go back a while even though we've had access to this stuff for five minutes it's uh it's it's existed in humanity since the 60s yes we're just adopting like now we're adopting it and dealing with it on a day-to-day basis it's still embryonic

01:29:02 - 01:30:19

it's still embrionic so if AI takes over routine work as as we're expect expecting it to what happens to Career paths and human ambition yeah this is something that when we look at so there are three basically forms of um AI that they break it down to right and when uh open AI relased deep research they called it a near takeoff scenario because it was becoming it was able to access tools research the web and becoming a an a an agent is Agent aligned type of um feature that they are offering on on

01:29:41 - 01:30:54

chat GPT and that brought in the question of artificial general intelligence so like I said it's as uh capable as a uh PhD if not more which means it's in a in a a particular industry and field it's an expert right so we're edging towards AGI what's AGI real quick artificial general intelligence um there's we've been dealing with a ni which is artificial narrow intelligence where it's really specified and and does what it says on the tin it's narrow and then there is an argument for artificial

01:30:17 - 01:31:19

superintelligence which surp far surpasses human intellect which is an interesting topic and again this is where people get really stressed and of course you've also got let's not forget Quantum Computing which is we won't touch that today because for another Financial quarter um but yes so you you do have to ask the question in terms of when you've got something like artificial super super intelligence and Quantum Computing all intersecting where that leaves us that's a a well while

01:30:48 - 01:31:43

away right but I'm just I want to give people the full picture um and the full spectrum because I I try to keep things balanced I'm really advocating for our adoption of AI to better our lives but I do like to talk about what we're dealing with in the future because I think we should think about it like I said we've been super IR responsible as far as I'm concerned with our current Tech I think it's done a lot of good but I think it's done a lot of terrible things as well

01:31:15 - 01:32:30

and we should have been smarter about how we um do you think that's because the custodians are tech companies that have boards that are Inc incentivise predominantly on the Merit of making money yes yeah which we need to do better we just need to keep that in mind and do better for this stage of tech it would be nice if we learned from ourselves for once instead of History just repeating itself um it does feel like there are these tyrants these Titans at Battle um and we're at the whim of where the chips Land versus yeah

01:31:52 - 01:32:55

I do feel there is a need for people to kind of challenge this system and to to demand some kind of governance for the people definitely because when I look at my four-year-old daughter and she's drawing and she's learning how to write and she's learning how to create my mind goes to the future of like you know when she comes to me when she's 12 and she's like Daddy I want to do this but I don't know if I can do this cuz AI already does it like I'm as a parent trying to prepare myself on like what

01:32:24 - 01:33:27

are we exactly creating for the Next Generation the question I have for you is how do we prepare the Next Generation to work alongside Ai and how do you think they're going to look back at us and our generation well funnily enough I think that ties in with the futurists that we talked about and and the transgenerational um empathy I think between their direct link with their immediate ancestors and a context like never before of accessing previous ancestors if they're interfacing with AI

01:32:56 - 01:34:08

which we assume that they definitely will be at really sophisticated levels I have a lot of hope that they will be able to because again we need to think about this from ideally an abundance mindset where things are um prospering and improving upon themselves if we take responsibility for what's gone wrong mentally and also socially so we need to acknowledge it fall on our sword and be like we've done this wrong and then look more broadly and use even for example the tech we've got right now like I said

01:33:31 - 01:34:39

support open source model oh yeah also the data like I said if we adopt the the theory of AI is US based on the data we're inputting in what are we training our AI on it would be great for AI to reflect in 30 years and say like we were talking about before I've had people running businesses aiming to look after their teams and Consulting me on you know how to be better leaders how to up employee satisfaction how to provide our customers and clients with the best experience possible how to make people

01:34:05 - 01:35:04

healthier how to make people happier you are shaping the future and that is how the models will learn and how they will perceive Us and how then obviously our ancestors and our future Generations are sorry our future Generations are going to learn like they will learn from us but they also will be learning from this this level of intelligence too which is a mirror of our Behavior so we have to take responsibility for that and we do have to do better if we training Ai and teaching AI because don't forget there

01:34:35 - 01:35:51

will be AI businesses and products that will keep coming out so the more that we innovate in this space is a direct precursor to the Future that we're looking at so then therefore for future Generations how do we ensure AI remains a tool for that generation and for Humanity and not something that replaces them I do not have all the answers I do think like I said I think if we take baby steps in changing the workplace in changing our dependence on our screens and using this technology to leverage

01:35:11 - 01:36:13

both the efficiency in business and the free time it will provide us to be creative we will become more human arguably than we've been in the last maybe 30 years and with that that's a very promising future for what we can untap unlock the quality time we can spend with our loved ones like it it just goes on and on it's it's exponential in a good way um and again if you think about the tech that we will be using IF AI is everywhere generating things or if we've got this is way down

01:35:44 - 01:36:53

the track right so we don't even need the glasses but even the glasses in the near future our silly phones will be out of our hands and there'll be less of like this is just that hunched over obsession with the screen is tragic and we need to we need to cut back on that like we do so the less that we're doing that and we're glued to the inbox to the algorithm to the attention economy that we have funded and made a very select few people many many billions if not trillions of dollars um and we start

01:36:18 - 01:37:07

giving back to ourselves with the tools that we've got at our disposal we will be much better people anyway you know take let's take ourselves out of fight or flight that's a good way of looking at it cuz you know we could put on the fight or flight hat and go well you know everything's changing there's a tremendous amount of uncertainty what about my children future Generations y y y these corporate companies and you know we could go down that um way of thinking and that could

01:36:43 - 01:37:43

really torment us however there's a simultaneous argument that's um let's be optimistic here like this can really get rid of the drudgery of the I guess administrative Workforce and the type of stuff that people do for a paycheck they're not really inspired um how do we create more space for Humanity to do things that are more important um whether it be going to Mars or colonizing the Galaxy or what have you um but you inherently think this is good for Humanity I think I do think it's

01:37:13 - 01:38:15

good for Humanity the potential is endlessly good I think we need to really wise up about what we're doing CU like I said if we're in the fight or flight mode we are not thinking rationally and that's science that's proven so if we look at collectively recalibrating because even The Last 5 Years like literally pandemic cost of living crisis a bunch of things going on right we're just that we're constantly plugged with through our socials it's inescapable so everyone is I read this whole article

01:37:44 - 01:38:35

about brain fog that's not leaving so it's this it's just this whole sort of we're we're in a rut and we need to look at 've got everything out at our disposal to get out of it though so yeah looping back to the familiar hell we should be pursuing the unfamiliar Heaven as um yeah as much as we can but I think what's interesting about this and and something that I've been diving into I don't know if you're familiar with him or maybe some of the listeners are but

01:38:10 - 01:39:16

there's a guy named Greg Braden so he was an ex NSA scientist um and he spent a part of his life in Tibet so he's this intersection of Art and Science he knows how to build rockets and he knows how to meditate we love that and he's fantastic but he was talking about AI is definitely um an opportunity for Humanity however simultaneously the greatest threat to humanity his perspective and he says that our lives are in the balance and the best thing that we must do right now is to actualize humanity and he believes that

01:38:43 - 01:39:41

potentially never has there been a greater Comm uh never has there been a greater opportunity in humanity to self-actualize self-discover and to spend a life doing more of that which you love love um so he's like he believes that there's a counterbalance and it could go either way depending on how we as the custodians of society businesses parents friends family daughters parents whatever y depends how we want to manage it so rather than leaving it to Silicon Valley you're saying take more hus take more

01:39:12 - 01:40:12

responsibility um and and wise up to what's happening absolutely and use it to be a better person now the more of us that are happier healthier and more logical less fight or fly you will be able to make better decisions today and in the future it's so much easier said than done right but again we're looking we've got to use our resources yes like use your resources you've got there is so much at your disposal now with AI to like I said make you even if it's 10% less stressed

01:39:42 - 01:41:00

people would kill for that and it offers a lot more than that right so I went to uh deack choa um choa is it deepack Cho choa choa um so so he his recent uh tour he he spoke about AI he uses it he has a dpack AI you can go on his website and talk to and consult for spirituality like it is truly endlessly applied to our existence well it's really just intelligence Amplified it is and he IDE is that it's it can you can coor you can co-architect you can co-create you know it's it's

01:40:21 - 01:41:16

that um you know I've heard this theory that that you know if I gave you a pile of bricks you can build something with it or you can put holes in Windows it's up to you you know AI is a tool and a tool is something that you have a choice to co-create with and as so long as AI is uh not a governing Overlord but it's a tool at uh disposal then then it could be used for good or bad depends on how we as a collective species decide to use it but in Deep's case I I love it when people have taken their Collective

01:40:49 - 01:41:48

knowledge put it into an AI and you can interact with it it's amazing it's amazing and it's a great example of the the positive capacity and the positive potential that it's got right and and more of a hotf felt thing it's you know I've seen um a case where people are uh you know facing their uh mortality and they're feeding an AI with their life story so when their child is older they can interact with them like beautiful things like that beautiful things that's

01:41:18 - 01:42:18

where there's the consent for the posum interaction of course like and I think I think that there there's so something very touching about that yeah so it it it again depends what you want to do with it like everything else that we've used and had at our disposal yeah it's um it's it's just it's a mirror yeah of human nature so we have to make choices wow yeah oh I could talk about this all day okay um now in conclusion here when it comes to Ai and how You' seen this play

01:41:48 - 01:42:58

out in the world and obviously you're obsessed with this and you're enjoying it and you're helping people in business and you're inspiring a lot of people myself included thank you how do you want to be remembered uh within this industry what a great question um I would really like to be like I said the the brand the business that I've built now with this is is offering empowered autonomy but how I would like to be remembered in this industry is I I can't say Optimist because you know

01:42:27 - 01:43:41

I I'm too cynical for that but a Relentless realist who believes we have the capacity to do better and we will so that's how I would like that's how I would like to be REM remembered yeah love that yeah uh what's a quote uh or a mantra that you've carried with you on this journey that you wished others that are listening to this would immediately Implement okay it's not AI specific but it can totally be applied I would say life yeah my a quote that lives in my head rentree total life motto is

01:43:04 - 01:44:10

actually from Rocky I think it's like five um yeah unexpected is it unexpected I would expect that from you that's aw I know the phenotype is is a very different from what's about to come out of my mouth but um the the words that yeah I totally live by these words is the quote that he says it's not about how hard you can hit but how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward and that is a quote that applies to everything from the wins the losses the adversity everything in life can be

01:43:37 - 01:44:42

boiled down to that because if you can do that you are on a winning ticket so again even with AI I think it's totally applicable we won't do this perfectly there will be teething and there will be errors but if we remember that the human spirit is totally infallible then we can deal with this too I have no doubts yeah Marissa I think what what you've brought to the equation today has been a ton of fun um chatting about AI has been an itch I me trying to scratch for for some time now

01:44:10 - 01:45:01

and um yeah you just make it make so much sense you break it down so eloquently and um you know we'll put links on how to connect with you uh in the descript here and if anyone would like to participate with you on content creation I know you're studying a podcast you need video editors you want equipment we need equipment sponsors uh so if you would like to help U please reach out to Marissa we'll leave her contact details in the descriptives um but thank you so much thank you so much

01:44:36 - 01:45:10

D this has been awesome we'll have to get you back I'd love to talk about Quantum Computing and what you know about that absolutely I'd love to have you on my podcast as well let's do it let's do it let's swap it fantastic thank you so much for being here be a pleasure and uh I'm sure we'll see you again [Music]