Creating Apps That Drive Change | Blake Robinson

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someone quoted Henry Ford saying where when people were build trying to make a faster Horse no one was thinking about building the car and I had this moment of like I'm doing that so me Josh and Rick put our heads together and when points aren't it anymore we're going to do cash now there's a way to get paid just for driving around it's the new app putting cash into your pockets so when you're driving now you are unlocking cents and dollars for every drive that you do Blake

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Robinson is the co-founder and managing director of my drive hero Australia's number one safe driving app will'll automatically record all your trips and from there you'll get a safety score depending on that safety score we'll determine how much cash you unlocked for that specific trip June coming to July we've essentially almost done a full reset I drive here at 1 and two practically stripped and brand new automatic recording brand new UI brand new ux cash automation fear around this yeah

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oh my God their mission is to Pioneer a reduction in Road incidents across the globe while putting cash back in the pockets of everyday drivers how much time do you need to invest in the idea before you hand it over to a development company you are going to burn a bucket load of cash on [ __ ] you did wrong just get comfortable with it like you will make mistakes get happy lighting money on fire yes I would like to welcome welcome my friend back to the podcast Blake thanks man thanks for having me again welcome

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back man last time you were on here we were in the corner in the old set and um everything was painted orange but um yeah welcome back man it's good to have you m this is impressive what an upgrade incredible and the journey you guys have had some epic guest so I'm humbled to be here thank you man yeah we've both been on some pretty outlandish Journeys in the last few years and I think just for the viewers that are not familiar with my drive hero um yeah just a bit of a snapshot of like what it is and and how

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people are getting benefits from this and then I'd like to I guess spend a bit of today's episode diving into like your experience producing an app and for those listening you know that are potentially considering building one what should they expect what should they look for and so on but yeah just a quick snapshot of of what my drive hero is we pay people cash to drive safer so two biggest killers on the road are speeding and distraction distraction being your texting and driving unfortunately a lot

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of people doing it what we do is we essentially track that when you're driving we record every trip we package it up and then we pay you cashless safer that you're driving those two metrics so essentially if you're speeding you're going to get less cash if you're texting and driving you're going to get a very little amount of cash uh but if you don't touch your phone and if you don't speed you're going to unlock the 100% maximum every single drive that you do

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and you make it sound so simple but like that also sounds extremely complicated from a technological perspective how does the phone track whether you're doing that or not whether you're driving safe or not is a plugging into I would imagine GPS coordinates speed of movement things of that nature SP on GP GPS coordinates so we essentially receive those data packets the data packets get sent to them from the server and we will know the speed of every road from our data provider we know there's

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change in every speed of every road and then your phone is a GPS itself so when you're moving if you're doing 67 in a 60 Zone we are right now essentially deducting your score for that speeding ER and then as uh people accumulate points for driving safely they can redeem them with Partnerships so no that's what it used to be okay that's Chang yeah so this is I think something really exciting we can talk about today we were points up until July early uh last year we realized it wasn't 100%

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getting to the level we wanted it to and essentially I took myself away to Barley had a 7-Day Retreat on reimagining the business I um heard a Tik Tok podcast snippet where someone quoted Henry Ford saying where when people were build trying to make a faster Horse no one was thinking about building the car and I had this moment of like I'm doing that I'm I'm trying to make a fast horse instead of the car so me Josh and Rick put our heads together and went points aren't it anymore we're going to do

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cash what do you mean by that so when you're driving now you are unlocking cents and dollars for every drive that you do so you're literally earning money yeah and getting paid directly kind of like you would uh as if you were driving for Uber or something of that nature y spot on just what we do is we have a my drive here exclusive cash card and we are part like we have about 140 retailers coold Willies Andole BP Bunnings Kmart catch Play Store iTunes so rather than redeeming through the

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supplier or the partner they get a card that they can use anywhere yeah anywhere with part yeah and it just gets sent directly to them so they their wallets accumulating and in that wallet you just click withdraw when you get to the level that you want to withdraw and bang it just arrives so transfers the money from the app to the card yep that's fascinating so so when you decided that we're building a horse here we're trying to make a horse faster rather than going in building the like what was the moment

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of epiphany what made you realize this cuz a lot of people in business when they're building a business you know we get so caught in the inertia of our business growing and scaling I've been sucked into this loophole where it's just like week to week cash check to cash check client to client you just get stuck in a rhythm how did you snap out of it and go hang on a second we're we're doing things wrong here even though it sounded like you guys were doing great you were raising Capital the

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business is growing why the sudden change a great question you said something to me when we did our Rebrand 2 years ago Founders get in the way of themselves and it's stuck with me like that has been something I always think about am I getting in the way of myself is my arrogance Josh is the same Rick's the same are we being too arrogant thinking what we built is like it where we're always looking to go is it right how could we do better we've got the data there but this is going to sound

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funny I was we were already thinking about that quote but then I went to Singapore and I watched a movie called Money Ball have you seen Money Ball that's a brilliant movie yeah and it was the same concept you know obviously Brad Brad Pitt's trying to get people to base more rather than getting all the Home Run hitters in and it was just again he went down the car route not the horse route and that was like the last straw that broke the camels back that we're doing this cuz he faced so much friction

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like in that movie I guess the premise of that movie with with money ball is Brad Pit is Reinventing how to look at the stats of the game and everyone's like that's not how we've done it before there's always been a rinse repeat um criteria that we do why change it if it ain't broke fix it hits like TR to get all the big names were you watching Money Ball when you when you thought this that was no I was watch the movie like it came on and I was watching it and I went is this like meant to be is

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there a reason why I'm watching this and I think that was the first time I ever watched that movie and like the timing of it and then I think one of the biggest things being a founder and running a business is your gut instinct you have to trust it every time I've gone against it it's been wrong every time I've gone with it I'd say 99% of the time it's been right and straight there and then I remember messaging Rick and Josh and I was like we are going to change this whole mechanism we are going

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to change it from back when we're on the potty last here we were manual recording app we're now fully automatic now so it does it completely in the background for you it's not press Start press stop convert to points it's fully automatic packages it up for you bang check check how much cash you got and we also now show you where your errors are too on the map right there you can click on it and it will say you were doing 74 and a 70 or you were doing 88 and a 60 you were doing 50 and a 40 Zone like you can

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go back and actually see why did I lose money on that trip right and then instead of again giving that fine slapping people in the wrist it's just this is why you didn't get as much next time let's not do 40 in that let's not do 50 in that so giving people more data points of when and where they are driving safe now did that lead to you guys seeing Trends where and and I guess as a brand we talked about this gone back almost two years ago which is you don't want the brand to punish

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people or hurt people and in most cases when we're looking at safe driving the other organizations Charities fundraisers what have you around self you know um uh safe driving uh it's usually negative like if you do this people will die if you don't break in time kids die like it's gruesome it's dark you wanted to always tilt it toward it's pure dopamine optimism happiness and you believe that was a better route to get the actual result versus trying to punish people 100% there's enough of

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those signs the you see the te signs it's like got the Police gun on the big billboard we're going to catch and I just feel like with the demographic change too as we have the the Millennials and Z's coming up they do not like being told what to do nope so it's like why would I follow that that suit of punish punish punish so no matter what in the my drive here app you will at least get one cent for a trip granted you might miss out on a whole dollar but you'll still at least get

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something for your participation to actually commit into trying to be better and then that's what I said last time on the podcast is I'm not treating every person like they have to be M Mr or Mrs passionate safety everything about safety if they're trying to just make money and save money and earn money through the app we're going to get the result anyway cuz they're the ones that are going to miss out when they drive dangerously when they go back and see so in the app you'll notice we have your

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potential cash and how much you've actually earned so you can always see side by side what you would be on if you were following the rules so it's kind of that constant like game of fight you're like oh I want that cash I could have earned $180 right now but I've only earned 70 yeah wow I've left that much money on the table for my dangerous driving let's let's not leave it on the table cuz it's free and it could be mine so we're just trying to flip that narrative it and we're seeing a huge

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intake which I find interesting because if you go into the psychology of branding it's you know people want to feel good that inherently don't want to feel bad and making people feel bad is not a great way to motivate people to continue to do something so by creating this I guess uh reward for people you're incentivizing them to do the thing that they should be doing even though they don't prioritize that as much as they might prioritize their grocery bill yeah 100% I I think we're like a lot of

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people are in a rush like a lot of people feel like they're running late or they're behind something in life and like when you which justifies I'm going to go an extra five I've done it like I'm running late just an extra five you know save that 10 seconds where if you're an individual and that money could be very helpful for you it's like well would I rather arrive 20 seconds slower but have an extra couple of bucks every single time I do that or do I want to rush right now damn it I've missed

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all that money all that money's been left able spilling does it calculate over time like over a longer period you're like over the last year you could have made an extra 10 grand but you didn't yeah not specifically in time that's probably going to come we like I said was July 15th we brought this new model out so what feels like ages to us it's actually still still quite you know it's been quick like it wasn't that long ago that we we launched it so we will gamify that have that a lot more in your

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face you missed out on this but you can always go to the summary page of the app right there it says how much you've got compared to how much you could have gotten every single trip has essentially a cash earned and a potential cash odometer and on that odometer you see how much you got is it full is it half is it is it almost empty and you can you get that you get that feeling of damn I left that money on the table Yeah so just to I guess go back for a moment like what inspired you guys to start my

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drive hero and what was the predominant problem back then that you were trying to solve yeah and now has that changed no definitely hasn't changed but the the straw that brought the camels back the thing that created the idea was uh my business partner and founder Rick Markham uh unfortunately a workplace uh accident a young lady drove under a 100 ton mining truck uh on a phone texting and driving driver said the last thing he saw was the phone light in the the Ute and there are videos on YouTube of

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if you ever look at a mining truck go over a car watch it and you'll see how serious it is and that was he was I got to do something about this and then went on the journey and we ended up meeting on that journey and turn that Vision into a reality so it it's to save lives is it the goal right now 100 % will it always be the goal 100% even when we raise Capital we bring on Partners we bring on employees advisors if they don't share that same value plain and simply [ __ ] off I'm going to say it like that we are

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not going to cut corners and bring on corporate greedy people that go let's make more money and don't worry about the lives no way the goal is lives to be saved and that will never change not in this business how do you make sure that if someone is investing in a company like this um you know and I understand that as you know as it goes with capitalism or investors they want to put a dollar in and get $2 dollars out how do you prevent that rhetoric taking place as as you guys are raising Capital

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how do you make sure we stick to the values um and not detract from that yeah I think if when you've been around people your whole life and you're you can read red flags quite easily it does make that a lot easier but we have put structures in place where if people are coming on and investing that that's going to help us grow the business if they have no interest in the strategy behind it or they're not really I guess into it we'll do a different share class which would mean that they don't have

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certain voting rights they can't come in the way of the speed of the company they can't come in the way of the strategy of the company so people don't understand when you're raising Capital there's about 20 different shair classes so you don't have to stick to ordinary you can go down the list there's plenty you can choose from so we've done that if there was ever someone not from this world not really into it but we needed the capital to continue growing we make sure that no

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it can't be impacted the decision- making can't be impacted the pace of decision making how do you vet a red flag out with an investor when you're sitting in front of them to be honest it's that it's a great question Rick and Josh always just say to me do you have red flag or green flag and I don't know what it is an employee of ours was wish I knew the book was was reading a specific book around your gut instinct and how it's lived for so much longer than you have and some people just

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straight away just know I would prefer just to walk away from a deal if I get any weird feeling and it might beong I might be wrong but I just truly go off my gut for those things and we just take ages we just meet with people we go out have lunch with them get to know them and we'll we'll fill it out that way yeah I guess people can you know um showcase a bit of a mask for a short interaction I I don't know who said this but I was reading somewhere that you'll know the quality of the person by who's

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around them so if you put yourself in an environment where you can see the investor around their standard Circle or the people that they typically hang out with you can typically judge that person by how they interact with people they already know yeah 100% Richard Branson does this great thing I watched on his master class and me Rick and Josh has spoken about implementing this where he will take someone out for lunch but he will set up that the waiter or waitress will make make a heap of mistakes we

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like spill stuff just like stuff up and see how he treats that waiter or waitress and if he's treating that waiter or waitress any less than how he's treating Richard straight away a know why do you think that is it's genius cuz like 100% I was chatting to my fiance about this like there are people out there that would that literally would treat someone in that role less than them or a colleague it's like straight away I know everything I need to know about that person I'm not

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going anywhere near them I don't know I don't know why because I'll never be like that so that's pretty awesome man like stage a actor to screw up uh as a waitress or genius what have you just to figure someone out how cool always M class and I was like that's what you want for like your executive team for like people that are going to be making big decisions like people can talk one thing but how do they act well I think if a human's response is to to put people into different brackets and

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treat them differently depending on their position or um status then then that says a lot about someone it's like I'll treat you based on how I perceive you versus just a fellow human being big time the person making your Domino's Pizza on a Friday is equal to you because you want that pizza why my book a bit more of a legend so so um I guess for yourself Blake how do you define success that is a good question success is an interesting term because it's like what are we talking about we talking about your success in

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your business I don't think you ever know if you reached success until the day that you die and I've always said I've always strived to be the person that when I die all my mates say he was the most loyal friend and I think that's mine that's beautiful man yeah and do you think that if you were to say in business what how would you define success in business your team I think if if your team says the same about you no matter how many levels you've jumped if they if you're still prioritizing them over the

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money the fame all of that jazz I would say that's success cuz I've worked around I worked in finance earlier in my career and I've been surrounded by some wealthy individuals and sometimes you look in their eyes and they're dead because all they prioritized was the money was the number in the bank and not the people they burn a lot along the way and you can see it you can see the souls taken out of their eyes and that is something I'd never want to be so for me I'd say successes

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people around me and how much I built them up like Josh as an example like I post on my LinkedIn that was my biggest what I would call My Success last year as well as his my most proud moment when he stepped up and went on Sunrise on like the last week of the year and nailed it and like for him to believe in himself that much and to know I had a hand in that like that's success cuz that [ __ ] stays forever um so yeah yeah going on television can be daunting especially if you're not fully media

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trained and you're getting thrown in the deep end and we're talking a bit about this before I guess we started recording today which your first um live interview on television you had a journalist that was a bit of a bulldog uh and was trying to get a rise out of you and um you were explaining to me that you know she had or you had her in an earpiece she was turned all the way down and you're looking at yourself in a camera so it didn't bother you that much yeah yeah to be honest I didn't even truly know it

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was going on at the time that aggressive um and it wasn't until after it I watched it back and had all these messages on LinkedIn like personal text going whoa they were going at you so hard and well done you just weathered that storm but yeah probably thankful that the earpiece was turned down a bit than I was just making sure I was in the center of the screen look good you know like what a great interview you don't know what to do in that in that first instance you walk into the studio and

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you have no idea like what the setup's going to be like what does it look like it's it's a room cameras everywhere B screen behind you and you're just getting count someone's counting you down you're live in 3 minutes you're live in one go and Josh went on Sunrise um because you had uh I guess two meetings that were near the same you going to drive from one location to the next they moved it to the same time so then he was kind of forced to get on there and he crushed it yeah he did he

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was he was like I'll do it I'll put my hand up I'll uh I'll go in and yeah he went into studio in in Sydney and absolutely nailed it okay well shifting gears here a little bit I I want to come back to apps because I think that there's a I guess a a conversation in in business in general and I've been in a lot of workshops with clients and they throw out the idea of an app of like we're going to build this business and yeah we'll just throw an app in there yeah and usually I pump the brakes in

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these strategic workshops because I'm like hang on a second you can't just throw an app in the mix here like what do you mean well we're just going to have an app for this feature for our business and I'm like no apps are famous money pits unless you really want to develop a key function that solves a huge problem like don't even go near it just have a manual procedure or something else you're going to invest a lot less um but yeah what's your opinion of apps just generally

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speaking do you think that you know there are some precautionary measures that people should take before they dive in before they start building one absolutely get a bucket load of capital for one but I reckon if you try by web if you if you can do your project on web first just to see if it sticks you are going to save tens 50s hundreds of thousands of dollars so if you can do it on web there's some businesses that can't like us we GPS based we're location based like you can't really do

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it on web it wouldn't quite work how would you differentiate like web uh for a function for a business versus an app like what is the key difference how do we delineate and how do we know which one we should go with well if you can easy if you can do it on web do it on web like if you can do anything on your website get a website builder to build it and you can have a function in there if you're traling a payment platform or whatever your app is but or web or project is but for us we had to be an

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app there was there's no way had to be mobile Centric it had to plug into pay packets sorry different data packets had to synchronize with the GPS and all the rest of it which is kind of hard to do web based you couldn't do a web and you're also to to have it you go to the website and you'd have to try and redeem and do it all through there it just be really really prickly so we had to go app um looking back on it there would be many precautions I could have taken to save hundreds of thousands of dollars but if

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you play that game in business you're just going to it's never going to end what what if I just did this I guess when you look at a website like it's a it's a portal with um code and design whereas an app you're engineering software and there's a lot more moving parts and you're also then having to plug that into either apple or uh Android and then you have to do updates when there's bugs and then you have to you know engineer it to fit different devices that are either out of date or

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what have you so there's just so many more layers of complexity to develop an app and there's so many things that will come in the way of your business that you have no control over so so as an example we're having an issue at the minute with Samsung's so Samsung did their most recent update about two months go and if you go online and you just just write Samsung new update you'll see people like it's killed my phone it's turning my apps off nothing's working I have a user who thought our

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app was broken and we just gave her a call we're helping her out and we're like do you know are you ever driving and your Spotify just turns off yeah that happens all the time and we go yeah it's your Samsung and there a particular website yeah I thought your like it's it's if it's happening to Spotify the monster company this is why is happening too but their update is essentially cuz an Android's got so many different settings in their device settings it just turns the app off so all of a

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sudden we'll be recording someone's drive and the phone will just go no I'm not recording anymore M then they obviously they come and blame ass and it's like it's the phone so if you're going to build an app you got to take that into account as well do you want an Android cuz like if I could go back now in just Australia from the start would I just do apple and not Android I think I would really yeah think I would but the only problem with that is we want to take this into many other countries

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where the Android is like 90 plus% of the population so on like from a from your perspective like what is the key difference between working with Android and working with apple because I guess if people are deciding I want to go with both I want to prioritize this one or that one like what's the portion of the market and like how do they prioritize or how how do you guys see the difference yeah so right now the last time I checked I think 57% of Australia were Android they're remaining in apple

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the difference being you've got iPhones right that's it but with Android you've got oppos you can grab for like 250 bucks for 300 bucks then you've got okay you might have more premium phones, bucks, 1500 bucks so the technology in the cheaper phone is more often than not going to be far less advanced than an iPhone so there's thousands of variables with the hardw thousands there are thousands of Androids like if you go on and look how many there are it's like you got to then get your app right for

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everyone granted the big chunk is Samsung and Google pixel the galaxies and your pixels but even they have their own problems in them so if I was to go back in just Australia Alone look at the outlay Android outlay that Android has cost the amount of hours that our development team have spent trying to find certain undiscoverable bugs and problems in Android if I looked at the outlay span compared to iOS on that how much money we could have used to invest in other things I would probably go back

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and go no Droid Apple until we make everything stick and once you then built out your team you know your model's working fine it's profiting then all right let's bring on an Android specific team yeah so you would Iron Out The Kinks on a platform that you could predict and have a bit less of a um up and down roller coaster of problems and let's just smooth it out here and then translate that cross yeah big time like that's probably that's probably the only thing I would say if I could go back in

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time and really pick pick one thing with the app it would just be let's just keep it on Apple because it's just far more consistent we don't really see any of our Apple users having any problems it's always Android yeah what what do you think are some of the misconceptions about building an app in the first place that most people tend to have uh and then realize when they're too far in doing too much I think and we did it I think people think in app you've got to have all of this engagement and all

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of these things to keep people in there but actually Simplicity is key and we learned that from a really raw brutal review and it was one of the it was one of the key elements to why we changed my drive hero 3.0 it was was about that long it took up like two pages I can see what they're trying to do here it's a great idea they're trying too much I'm lost in what they're doing here it's over gamified it's over complex and just again ripped us to shreds can you give me an example of of

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how you were doing too much yeah so if you look at my drive Hero 1 to my drive Hero 2 to my drive Hero 3 my drive Hero 2 we attempted extreme gamification when really all we needed was cash and automation we didn't know that at the time that we didn't know that it just we thought what we had was good enough and we tried leaderboards we tried uh doing giveaways with your points as well as getting vouchers and discounts and there were just so many different places you go on the App there was a new

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section and in that new section was the leaderboard as well and then we had a Leaderboard on the homepage we had a reward ad module which we used to monetize the app and people could earn more points so there were all these things but people then were like what is the main purpose of this out like what is it what's the start button I don't get what the start and stop button is people getting lost and yeah it was a it was a hard 6 months of like we thought this was going to be the thing that made it stick and it

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wasn't and me and Josh were just talking about this over the break we our last Christmas break I don't think we moved from our laptop for the whole time like Christmas day like every every day we were there going why is this not sticking like we thought it was and it just been built and then we eventually ired out some Kings and then that's when we went all right to get to the next level we got to go cash and we got to go automation um but yeah misconceptions I think people try and do way too much too

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many features too many functions was this adding weight from the software was this adding weight from management like where were the problems popping up no the problems are popping up in people the drop off the user drop off so if the app is too uh complicated or isn't quite clear as what its key function is don't to use it gone gone like just the drop off rate was like wow I thought we're going to have a huge uptake and it was just people are getting confused we were getting messages from our really loyal users

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going hey guys like I'm it's all becoming a bit too confusing and it was it was really like disheartening to see but you got two options you either go oh how do we how do we lift it or do we sit here and try and make it work so we ironed like I said ironed out a few Kings there stripped it back a bit but again once we stripped it back and we saw it did take off a bit it was again we weren't getting that sticking rate we wanted we just knew like it wasn't there and then that's when that Tik Tok

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podcast popped up and the money ball and it was like Brad Pit inspired you you know yeah Brad Pit let's go Money Ball and again L I always think about that thing you said to me is Founders get in their way like let's step out of body for a second and go okay we built something pretty cool here but maybe the whole thing's wrong maybe that everything is completely wrong let's strip this back to its core it it happens so often and you know it's so easy to do like you're running a company

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and you can justify that um you know you know what you're doing you've been doing it longer than anyone else like you know the customer doesn't know enough or what have you and I think that you know one of the ways that businesses or business owners tend to get in their own way is I think they try to grow too much and there's this really cool philosophy that I've been playing with and you know it it shows up in Buddhism it shows up in Christianity it shows up in a bunch of different religions um but in Buddhism

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in particular they talk about how when you're looking at life or reality there's only really three categories you can put things in either it's growing it's being maintained or it's being destroyed wow and I've been applying this to business because when I talk to a lot of business owners they're constantly like I'm doing this and this and this and they're almost proud of how many things are on there to-do list and when you s simply just go well how many of these are actually substantially

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valuable and what do we just need to destroy and then what do we need to put in the maintenance mode they're like no no no it's all in growth mode and I'm like okay but like how can you Pro possibly prioritize 20 things in growth mode at the same time let's demote a few of them to just purely maintenance we'll come back to them later it doesn't mean we're not going to grow them it just means we're putting them into autopilot as best we can delegate it to someone else um or find another way to kind of

00:31:26 - 00:32:18

demote it what things can we destroy here that are just not helping your business and then let's pick three to five things to focus on growth not 20 yeah and this is usually a hard conversation for people but then when it sinks in they're like yeah this is a lot better you know I I can just do five things really well put these 10 things in the background and autopilot and Destroy these five things how are you finding it I've been doing it myself this past year and and even you know the

00:31:52 - 00:32:43

team behind here on the podcast I think last year I was doing too much you know we did the book we did the podcast we're traveling International I was doing Keynotes we're doing events we're doing boot camps we're doing webinars we're doing interviews uh running a company uh it it just it just it was so much and I think that it was all great nothing was bad it's just you know where are we going to focus on growth and like that's impossible to sustain it's not sustainable and like I'm a dad I'm a

00:32:17 - 00:33:05

partner and I want to have a life and friendships and all the rest of it it's just and I think that you know we can get caught in this inertia that I'm not a successful business owner if I'm not doing an ice bath at 500 a.m. and then you know um doing doing this like extreme regiment for success and I think every person's different but coming back to the Theology of like hey we got to destroy some stuff we got to crack a few eggs and we got to put a few things in the shelf for now and let's just focus

00:32:41 - 00:33:46

on what's important yeah I think we did something very similar not based on that philosophy and it it's the best thing we ever did we go we're just going to focus on we are the only business to pay out cash we are the only app right now tracking your safety and that's our thing Bang nothing and it sounds like well that's not enough so then we over embellish right but you're saying by by radically simplifying the key problem you solve yeah for and therefore what is the benefit it's like well the key

00:33:13 - 00:34:13

problem is you can I guess from the the viewers perspective I drive and make money y That's maybe would you say in their world that's the problem that's that's it I think the problem right now is money well it is the problem's money so we went how do we how do we grow our business by tackling that problem and by tackling that problem we tackle the road safety problem as well just as a byproduct that's our focus our bus the business owners advisors staff we want death toll down people driving on the

00:33:43 - 00:34:30

road they might not care about that but what do they need and that's what I'm going to give you because then I'm going to get what I want which is a great lesson in business because at the end of the day the market don't care about you and your business your interests your mission what's in it for them yep 100% And for the drivers in in you know uh using this app it's like hey I want cash for what I'm already doing yep that's a problem they have so if you own that

00:34:06 - 00:35:05

problem great then then just simplify how we deliver that yeah the one thing I'm learning on this journey too is how angry the world is at businesses yeah like we we give out cash right we have a free it's a free option you can have a free account and if you want the paid account cool there's less ads it's a less friction uh uh experience but if you don't want to pay that's fine you don't have the money to pay that's fine we'll still pay you cash anyway and the amount

00:34:35 - 00:35:38

of aggressive emails we get going I didn't speed here [ __ ] you you're wrong I'm going to take you to the A tric and get my $1 back for that tree like I'm the amount we get and I know I know it's not us that they're angry at they're angry at business as a whole our biggest grocery companies are making billions and these people can't afford bread the everyday Australian can't afford bread I come from a a very very humble family I know what it's like these massive banks

00:35:07 - 00:35:59

are making billions a quarter and people are oh we're now up in the fees on to hold money in your account but we made billions and you're struggling to feed your family I understand why they're angry I get it and that's why we put so much focus in to just I always say to my staff remember someone could had a really bad day you don't know what they're going through don't let's not fire back with any fire let's break him down and then you'll have a you'll have

00:35:33 - 00:36:23

a community for life I remember I taught Josh this at the start and Josh is like every time now he's like yes like a really angry one and he's like by the end of it he's they're going to love me and then like they end up getting reviews I spoke to Josh like this is so great you know I actually realized I was wrong here but then we we might have been at fault there might have been a road that was wrong so what we go in and we say hey thanks for telling us we'll now send that to our provider that'll

00:35:58 - 00:36:56

get updated in 30 days that road will now be correct for everyone cuz it got changed for whatever reason now everyone's going to get paid accurately you're glad you're helped oh yeah I'm glad bang all of a sudden the ones that are the most angry will be your biggest lovers once you break them down but it is sad to see it's actually sad to go what are you going through that you're that angry that you're taking that time out of your day to blast a company that's actually giving you money

00:36:27 - 00:37:18

not not taking it would you say that people tend to collect frustration from a multitude of experiences and then they just at some point lash out at whoever's the person that's ticked him off at that moment similar to Richard Branson interviewing someone at the cafe and the waitress did the wrong thing spilled the water and what do you think it is do you think it's inflation do you think it's the economy the politics what's what's getting people so fired up that's yeah I

00:36:53 - 00:37:58

think case- by case basis is you're always going to find different things but I I think more so than ever right now businesses need to be a just a human being like you need to rip away that corporate sheath you need to just be a person you just need to be a genuine face cuz I have noticed that when we Josh and I got a little bit more in front of the business and got us out there doing videos we did see a bit of a drop in like hastiness from our community and they're just like oh actually just genuine genuine people we

00:37:25 - 00:38:19

still obviously need to get far more deeper in the personal branding and I think we need to strip back like business content's dead right you'd know that better than anyone just posting cool designed images and just content like that we need to strip it back to the person because I think that will calm people down cuz these big companies that are making billions they're almost like robots running those companies you see them in these meetings they're defensive they're they can't answer why

00:37:53 - 00:38:48

they're making so much profit when they don't need to make as much but we all know the shareholders in behind there they want payouts guess what the everyday person's got to pay for that so yeah cuz you you see politicians on television or on news or even in podcast and it's like they're an NPC in a video game they have preset dialogue sequences that they just go to and doesn't matter what question you throw at them they got three responses I think people are tired of this in congruent response or

00:38:20 - 00:39:15

rhetoric we see from public figures and I think from my experience you look at a company and there's classical tropes where it's like all they care about us making profit they're in it for themselves they don't care about the consumer um and for those listening abroad we have a bit of an issue here in Australia where we have predominantly two uh leading um I guess Whole Food um supermarkets that are you know essentially at war with each other but it definitely seems like they work with

00:38:47 - 00:39:44

each other to maximize profit and when you're paying $985 cents for milk you're you're starting to get a little pissed off at corporations for sure oh like you think about the the average income earning family they might have three kids like that's got to be so tough yeah there's a if if I'm getting paid 28 bucks an hour hypothetically for a medium job here in Australia and it's like well half of that hour is just a bottle of milk yeah like it's not it's not worth the hour

00:39:16 - 00:40:17

it's it's not so no wonder why they're angry unless you love your coffee but yeah there's a Tik Tok uh I see and it's he's done it in a very very intelligent way he showed um on like a tracker on his Chrome the price increase and decrease of every product online on Co and Willies interesting yeah and he'll be like on sale 50% off and then he'll go uh I'm not I'm not not saying you're doing this but just having a look it was $9 last week $450 this week the week before that

00:39:46 - 00:40:36

was $9 then it was $450 then $9 then 450 and he goes so someone could say it's not actually 50% off because this is just what happens every week and then he goes to woolies and it's like opposite So when you say like working together you start to go I I love that people are like creating technology to like track stuff and call people out on things I think that's fascinating so if someone's considering hey you know they're in a workshop with me and they're like man let's do an app for this feature that we

00:40:12 - 00:41:02

want you're saying for the most part like definitely destroy that idea unless you're very serious about solving a key function for your business for those that have an idea for an app or are building an app as a key function of their business um a few things you mentioned one which is like you know try to simplify it own a problem keep it simplistic what are some other considerations that you should think about like if there's a laundry list of like this is what you're going to expect

00:40:37 - 00:41:39

if you're building an app these are the 10 things that you should really put your energy into you need that money there and have more than you expect to what would be that number well it depends on it depends on the specific if we just be an average and we we're standardizing this with a let's just say it's a tech company that that the app is the key function um of how they want to hold their minimum really minimum 2 milon get be prepared to spend over the next 36 months comfortably over 2

00:41:08 - 00:42:04

million why is it 2 million because develop developers cost quite a lot of money staff cost a lot of money when you monetize through Apple they're charging you 30% on subscriptions when you're monetizing through Google Play store they're between 15 and 27% if you so 30% of your Equity just work with apple gone so have you ever used whooop before have you ever seen so you know how their subscription is really like it's quite a lot of friction in it for how big they are but they put

00:41:37 - 00:42:28

it through their website so then they don't pay any fees to the app stores while granted I understand their products a bit different they can get away with that if we were to do something like that our users would go oh well it was was a double click now it's not a double click I got to go to this website make an account like too much friction too much friction move on so straight away you got to factor that into your your revenue is oh cool I've done a million in Subs but Apple and

00:42:01 - 00:42:55

Google have taken 30% of that so huge chunk gone so if you did a million Revenue that's 300,000 that goes to Apple gone and then you got then you got your taxes and everything on that obviously depending if you're profiting or not but B 30% gone 300 Grand gone from your inapp subscriptions now if you're advertising if you're using any sort of programmatic advertisers whether it be admob unity all of the main platforms you probably got a 6040 Revenue share when you kicking off so

00:42:28 - 00:43:20

you might be getting a $30 CPM you're only seeing less than half of that to a little bit over half of that depending so there's a lot of Fe that go out on these things that people don't understand see where where can people go to try to guess or gauge what the capital should be is there some way that people can kind of naturally track this themselves or should they go higher an accountant no get good at make I'd say any founder should be able to write a good business model good business plan

00:42:54 - 00:43:52

and you should be deep in that all the time like I'm always playing with ours fiddling it going okay if this lever gets tweaked what happens if I tweak this lever what happens 5 years 2 years one year make a medium growth one an aggressive growth one a really worst case scenario one and make sure you know like what are the outcomes that your and TR track so in mind I have a cash flow statement that mimics a bank account so I can know like if I have the worst year and it's the worst what does the bank

00:43:23 - 00:44:08

account look like every every single month what does it start what does it end what does it start what does it end yeah it's like it's almost like it's breathing it's like money comes in money goes out money comes in money goes out and then if you go all right to put in 700,000 in investment and let's put a worst case scenario over the next three years all your Revenue lines granted you're going to come up with new Revenue lines over the time or some won't go to plan but if you get that as accurate as

00:43:45 - 00:44:40

you can think into a worst case scenario and watch watch that the cells go into negative into red and you go yeah 700k might not quite cut it yeah yeah we recently did you know we brought in a CFO and um we started to do Financial forecasting for the business now is an eyeopener yeah you can have a hunch like we're doing really well with this particular product the CFO is like well hang on a second you crunch the numbers you're like actually it's losing 30% but this other product is gaining 50% profit

00:44:13 - 00:45:03

whatever like I think when when you're starting an app you're saying that you should sit down and have some kind of full cost or some kind of financial model so you can crunch numbers to figure out what spits out at the end of the year big time Big Time like if you can't do it yourself yeah get a fractional CFO pay for someone's time to build your model and then you can go through and edit it but if you're going to be a Founder if you're going to build a business like early on because you

00:44:38 - 00:45:32

don't have spare cash just to pay for a CFO if you're not in a profit yet CFOs aren't cheap right you can't just Fork out startup funds for a CFO to build your model you need to get busy and figure out how to build that thing yourself yeah nothing wrong with going can I have you for 1 hour pay for a CF over an hour check over it if you're really not confident with what you're doing well hell if you're bootstrapping it maybe chat gbt can be like here's a model put it together this way so so

00:45:05 - 00:46:07

one's Capital um so Capital can include a number of things like Financial forecasting um either chat gbt it or getting an accountant or are you copying like are are you doing something something's already done much easier because there's already a blueprint for it right so look out there in the market who done this before like yeah let's uh you got zero if copying zero like it's all there you know how to make that tracking Financial platform like it's it already exists so that's going to be a

00:45:35 - 00:46:42

lot easier but time time is I'm actually going to move Capital to two and I'm going to put time as your biggest adversary time number one time is number Capital number two yeah so talk about time when we first started this Josh teed up a meeting um with the founder of go1 corporate training platform vu and he said one thing again something like you said but he said stuck with me he goes your biggest enemy is going to be time and at the time like it just kind of sounds clich cool cool and you know what else

00:46:10 - 00:47:08

like what else what other information got anything else for me cuz that one's a basic one yeah yeah and but fun boring swipe white right but it's like the first thing I think about like every day is like I've got this many hours and like if I don't use them wisely then it's going to add cost it's going to be waste of money it's going to be like I didn't get anywhere I didn't learn anything new so with app development too you're paying by the hour most likely so if you're running

00:46:39 - 00:47:32

real slow or if you're paying by the hour and you don't quite have your ducks in a row that is going to eat that Capital way real quick because if you look at business right at at the end of the day it's really three things and and I've had conversations with with this kind of same I guess perspective for many people billionaires millionaires what have you where it's it's like it always comes back down to time money people y so do you have the right people are they doing the right [ __ ] do you

00:47:05 - 00:48:07

have enough money Capital to do what you need to do how much are you needing um how long is it going to last you what's the impact do you have enough of it are you running short uh and then the last thing is time I I think you know when I when I go back to a book that I love which is cash flow quadrant Robert kosaki talks about you know how to move um money around to make money for you but he also talks about this in some of his workshops and other books where he's like if you take time and start to think

00:47:35 - 00:48:33

about time as currency y every hour is is a Time token where are you putting that time token per hour and if you're only working 8 hours a day where are you spending those time tokens because if you start thinking like that you start to go well I put 8 hours into this what did I get and if you start becoming Critical with your time and you start thinking about time as as an investment like really seriously think about it as an investment what are you getting for what you're putting your time into yeah

00:48:04 - 00:48:52

I think with like a Founders time is you're going to have your developers who going to go out and do the work right there's a good chance you're probably not a developer right you don't have a code most people that start an app aren't a developer you're not right so how much like research have you done how much planning have you done how is your communication to the developers because if you haven't spent the time building that out you're going to send off a brief to them and you're going to tell

00:48:30 - 00:49:23

them to do something they're going to come back and they spend 100 hours on it and you're like that's not like what I was thinking or actually I didn't really quite go over that in my head all that much or like the financial model you haven't spent 20 30 hours on it and you go oh that actually didn't make money oh I I have spent 100 hours on that like do you think it's because like people haven't tested the idea let's just say I have an idea for an app um I I theorize

00:48:56 - 00:49:54

it and I go through thought exercises and I think about it for a year I hire an app development company for 50 60 $70,000 I tell them what I want they literally take me V batim they're engineering type people analytical type people they build exactly what I ask for and then I see it I'm like oh this isn't quite working the way I'd hoped do do you think that the time piece do how much time do you need to invest in the idea before you hand it over to a development company that's a I don't

00:49:26 - 00:50:27

know if there's ever going to be an answer answer for that question like that that's a very hard what's the dangers of that like explain to me like I think you just as well have to be really prepared you are going to burn a bucket load of cash on [ __ ] you did wrong no like I like just get comfortable with it like you will make mistakes get happy lighting money on fire yes no get comfortable with it because out of that something will form like you will find something why is that the uh the culture of app development

00:49:56 - 00:50:52

because of course so much because like you said a lot of Founders aren't developers you know if you're an accountant you start an accountancy firm you can if something's going wrong you can jump in there and do the books you can meet with a client you can essentially swap your time for money right when you're building an app that's again I can only truly talk from our point of view no one's done it no one's done a safe driving app that pays someone cach that's fully automatic that

00:50:23 - 00:51:28

uses essentially YouTube's model in a way to bring bring it back into a gamified way that keeps you coming back no one's done that before how do you how do you figure that out you just don't [ __ ] care about anything you don't get scared of anything and you just know it's going to work I'm like it might sound Blas but we just again I'll plan I'll model everything to a te quite aggressively and if I'm comfortable that that arm can make money and that idea can make money it's

00:50:55 - 00:51:51

just so so like explain this to me if if I'm looking at building an app but I'm not a developer and I'm an entrepreneur and I think the idea has Merit yeah where would you shop would you go to the top of town would you go to the bottom of town like like what what's the best protocol what should I stay away from and and where should I be careful yeah that's a great question top of town the bigger the company the more headcount they have the more bums that are on seats that you're essentially going to

00:51:24 - 00:52:25

be paying for and it's going to be factored into your cost they move a lot slower as well uh from what I've found from experience if you go to that wouldn't say like absolute bottom of town but maybe one rung up team of two team of three team of four maximum team of six they've got that passion where they want to deliver the best product for their name you're generally speaking with a founder or you're speaking with a director you're speaking with someone who has full passion in the business

00:51:55 - 00:52:58

they're not just there to knock off on a Friday get their paycheck and when it comes to development it is so important you've got someone that genuinely is thinking about your product like you are we have a great team we've worked with this whole time and they will like push back on me and be like n have you thought about this and you go oh cuz he's like we did that for a client six years ago they found this and to have that data is invaluable but it's the speed the speed they move at I can

00:52:26 - 00:53:28

call them at 11 p.m. at night we'll be up sometimes at 1: in the morning doing stuff and they're just dedicated you need that you need that speed because if it's moving too slow it's costing too much money business owners if you're stuck using one platform for every project you're probably stuck in a growth bottleneck more clients means more hires which just adds noise and cuts into profits to break the loop you need flexible tools that don't stretch your resources Wick studio is a smart

00:52:57 - 00:54:06

addition to your business toolkit intuitive by design your team can quickly Master the platform and focus on the work that matters the most then keep up the momentum with a built-in management tool a unified dashboard reusable assets and a figma plugin that turns static design into launch ready websites with robust native Business Solutions like bookings e-commerce and events you can take any project at any scale without the added cost of third party plugins plus Wick studio is a low maintenance platform meaning you can

00:53:31 - 00:54:36

redirect the client budget towards real growth initiatives think more value for clients steady income streams and stronger relationships to get started simply go to wix.com studio so by hiring a big firm that have a big name they might be like we've done 100 apps like this before you're less of a priority cuz you're one of many whereas a small outfit with six less uh people you're saying that your priority cuz you meet the founder the founder is super invested in making sure your

00:54:04 - 00:54:56

project succeeds because they probably don't have 100 clients they've got four uh and they want to keep you on the Rolodex and they want to impress you and they want to build a portfolio so they're incentivized and invested beyond the project spot on and start with your network like reach out to people you know reach out to people that you know that might know someone else that has done an app before and just have a meeting with them you'll find like people like yourself people like me I'll

00:54:30 - 00:55:21

meet with randoms if someone's like hey can you meet with a mate of mine can you meet with a contact of mine they're thinking about starting this and give them a hand 100% I'll take time out my day it's already hard enough like I don't want other people to suffer I want everyone to succeed so I think start by trying to get some info on is there anyone that could give you a referral I think referral base is going to save you Buck a load of cash cuz you know they're already delivering something great

00:54:55 - 00:55:54

that's if I started again I would do the exact same thing and would you say it's unfair to expect that a team would develop the app give it to you and it works uh flawlessly no yeah like no there will be problems there will 100% be problems and and it's not maybe that agency's fault it's just like you got to go test the market right 100% and there will be so many things that we as people we expect someone might know but again what business are you creating what app are you building like I can't ever

00:55:25 - 00:56:24

expect someone out there is going to know how to codee and how to build my drive hero from the ground up no one's done it before so they're learning just as much as we are but if you're coming up with something brand new like our automated recording that was first of its kind I full patience like you need to have patience with your team just like any building any team if you're jumping down their throat and getting angry at them going want work they're going to want to work with you so I

00:55:54 - 00:56:57

think from that regard is it depends on complexity of your app it depends on the complexity of your project or your Revenue stream or the new addition to the app if it's a first time doing something be prepared to spend a bucket load be prepared to waste a lot of time and money but trust yourself that you are making the right call because if me Josh and Rick didn't we wouldn't be sitting here right now yeah would you say that failure is a component of this as well and and not looking at it as

00:56:26 - 00:57:26

defeat but looking at it as okay that didn't work the market did not respond to that we need to Pivot quickly we need to take that feature back out um recently I saw u a quote from Elon Musk where someone was asking him about SpaceX he said if you're not adding things back in you're not testing enough yeah so so do you guys then look at building an app like we got to take this back out you know is is it back to the Buddhism thing where it's like this needs to grow this this is in

00:56:57 - 00:58:05

maintenance mode this needs to be destroyed yeah where're we're at that point now so if you think about it we've gone June come into July we've essentially almost done a full reset we've essentially almost gone my drive here one and two practically stripped and brand new automatic recording brand new UI brand new ux cash automation was there fear around this yeah oh my God like if anyone says that they won't worried or they weren't thinking about it every night they're absolutely li like lying

00:57:30 - 00:58:24

through their teeth we came up with a banking model so you'll see it in the out right there is the banking model which essentially packages up your trip it has a nice gold ring around it it's a nice little gold ring going around a ClickBank trip that's then when we serve you ads when our advertisers can get in front of our users at a very engaged time and then bang once you go through those ads if you're a free user if you're a premium user you go straight through you get to see Gra all your data

00:57:57 - 00:59:08

your safety score where your errors were how much money you unlocked all of that jazz that banking that banking was brand new and like I'd never seen it done before it was just something we came up with on a whiteboard session and it was like if no one clicks that button no one sees ads no one has any reason to subscribe to premium because they don't want ads like that button was I think a lot more crucial than anyone realized and and we were pulling the data last month and we had over 2 million banks

00:58:32 - 00:59:49

for the month and to go like me and Josh we were we were together I went up to Queensland to see the boys and we were just like thinking in July we had like maybe a 100 or 200 banks for the month and have 2 million 6 months later for one month it was like the button worked like all we backed ourselves and and we trusted the process and champagne moment it was it was like it went exactly to plan if not much more than we anticipated and and you can't predict this stuff CU it sounds like developing an app is like champagne one

00:59:11 - 01:00:17

moment and Raisor blades next and and and being okay with both sides of this so so being okay with the the failure piece um investing a substantial amount of time and money um what about when it comes to customer experience like take me into the experience piece like how do you make sure the app is experience Centric not just function to serve the purpose of the business yeah wow that's a great question look we we've utilized a lot of surveys up until this point but you get everything you need online

00:59:44 - 01:00:43

people are [ __ ] vocal they will say everything about the business on all the platforms go through and read every single review I do I'll are these Google reviews or emails App Store reviews App Store reviews okay so if you go through App Store you go through Google you will get people will go there and leave a review when they're just in the be of the moment angry and it's just it's not truthful right we got heaps plenty of reviews that are all lies but if you go through and sift through those reviews

01:00:14 - 01:01:10

you will get key bits of info about your business because you'll go oh there's another one another one another one another one another one that was a big again the leaderboard when we brought the leaderboard out we thought it was going to be so good we we will bring you go through the insights everyone hats the leader board yeah and like it it it takes a bit to troll through criticism feature we brought out and removed we brought out in August on the map it showed people where they were speeding

01:00:42 - 01:01:34

but we also told them how long they were speeding for for some reason people just disagreed with it there was just like this crazy it wasn't for 8 seconds it was it would have been way less than that like I was like well that's beside the point like it was we recorded but it was creating all this friction and we went why don't we just take the seconds out and we just put the speed just just you were doing 67 into 60 on 70 to 60 so on and so forth so it's almost like they're getting too much

01:01:07 - 01:02:04

data yeah and that we we took it we literally I think 3 Days Later 4 days later after we had this just huge influx of support tickets coming through the app and reviews on it wasn't 6 seconds it was three yeah yeah I me it wouldn't be that long like that's how dare you say that I have a baby in the back he's my 2-year-old son son he would never let me do this exactly like you actually are getting reviews like that so we just said okay cool even though we know they're most likely incorrect this isn't

01:01:36 - 01:02:29

great this is creating friction we remove the seconds out of it crickets like just nothing just didn't hear anything more about it you almost can't say what the market should or shouldn't do yeah it just is and how do we respond y we get a lot of support tickets so what we try and do is getting explain a support ticket so when you go on the app a trip the end of on that trip summary page it shows you how much cash you earn how much potential you could have got the map the safety score and at the

01:02:03 - 01:02:54

bottom it's like like a bit of a report card for your trip yeah and then at the bottom it would just be like you know don't agree click here and and reach out to this or do you want to reach out about something we have some pre-filled options whether it was the speed kind of like U like uber when it's like did you get your meal yep was it on time was it fast give us some feedback yeah exactly so essentially we are trying to get the feedback off them through a channel that we can reach out to them much more efficiently

01:02:28 - 01:03:25

when someone goes on to Google Play Store as big Viking 44 and like random these random gaming names and that's might be their game center name or whatever it is and they just leave a review well it's so hard to reach out to them we can't we got to send a developer response so you wanted to build an inapp function that kind of allowed you to go okay it was this user for some reason people in jalong complain a lot whatever it is uh and you can get key insights or key metrics around regions age

01:02:56 - 01:03:51

bracket like what what what what like what are the insights you're looking for like how much of it is useless information what's useful yeah like that again NeverEnding question with app data I think when you build an app one thing you'll learn is is how much data you have and there is more than what you think you're going to have like everything from where are people speeding what are the biggest problem areas you know I could go to Every Council in Australia right now and tell

01:03:24 - 01:04:26

them every speed bum that's incorrect on Road like I can tell them this is where they speed it's not here move it to here like the amount of data that you have to be able to use for good and also timing app you know when we had my drive Hero 2 like we had a dwell rate in the app of less than 20 seconds a day we now have over 5 and a half minutes it's three times a global average the dwell time on average of people in the explain what that means essentially people in the app for a day so like Facebook Tik Tok

01:03:55 - 01:05:01

Instagram 25 hours or 24 hours for some people like unfortunately um dwell rate is that time that they're spending in the app so for us as an advertising business um we have very from like a quarter of a minute to 5 minutes is pretty substantial yeah we have a lot of people in there and the sticking rate too so to to be really transparent I don't think I've really told many people this with my drive Hero 2 we dropped as low as a 23 or 24% sticking rate so like people would come into the app and

01:04:28 - 01:05:34

within 30 days would essentially bang done with it so is the metric uh a month and then it's like how many of them stick around yeah and it was about 24% globally it's 50 globally 59% of utility apps will get deleted in the first 30 days we dropped as low as like 70 74% 76% of people just after 30 days went bang don't want it we only had about a 24% sticking rate people stayed currently my drive Hero 3 is 96.7 yeah what do you think was the the key difference to make that make it so that

01:05:01 - 01:05:59

the app was that sticky cash and automation no cash and automation there's nothing else to it like okay simplified it looks cooler it's a bit it's a bit Slicker like all of that's great but cash automation people need cash we'll give it to you automation you don't have to do anything so like I don't know if you remember the two version you get in the car let's say you put the kids in you go to school you got Press Start M okay oh it's a 2K trip I can't be bothered like I W I won't press

01:05:30 - 01:06:20

start this one I won't bother so you're leaving all those rewards on the table but you don't know they're there right now every trip gets recorded automatically so even if someone hasn't come back into the app whenever they're free so we just say to people you when you're having a coffee sitting watching the Telly when you would maybe normally troll Tik Tok or Instagram or whatever social platform LinkedIn Bank trips just go in and bank bank your trips get in there unlock your cash oh so you're

01:05:55 - 01:06:49

giving them like this um after effect dopamine hit like oh I had 19 Car trips this week it's even interesting to just know what your data was that week how manys did I drive how far did I drive and you're going in there and getting that ding ding ding ding ding okay yeah so like they can go in a bank whenever they want and how does it know that they're driving though how does it how do you know they're not in the passenger seat are they're actually driving great question I love this one so we we

01:06:22 - 01:07:18

deliberated about this a lot and people go to me oh well what happens if I'm a passenger and then I'm going to get I'm going to get paid as well and I have a really great story on this if you're keeping that driver safer by you worrying about your score as well guess what we're getting to the goal like that is a win okay the company pays two times on that trip but rather than two people dying on that trip so we we deliberated this a lot do we invest a buckle load of money into

01:06:50 - 01:07:40

detecting a double trip and then who's who someone said to me oh can you put a button in there that just says I'm passenger and said what and the people that want to text and drive just go I'm a passenger today uh text and drive I see you know people would cheat the rules when the rules are put there to be able to be cheated and I didn't want that so I had a chat with uh a mother recently and she was like oh I think it's a really good idea that we all get paid on a drive and I

01:07:15 - 01:08:01

was like oh why' you say that she's like well I've got two daughters and she's like what we all do now is we actually all put our phones away because we know if one of us are texting and the car's moving like that person's going to lose money on their phone even though they're not a driver we obviously the we're not going to be able to detect where you're sitting in the car you know there's not that level of personal data that would be uh concerning from Apple if they were

01:07:38 - 01:08:38

getting that she goes so what we do now is all four of us are just off our phones we're chatting as a family we're making sure the driver whether it's me or my or my hubby driving we're making sure the drivers staying really focus because we all want 100 out of 100 and I went like what a story that is that's e you got a family like Bond growing you got Rapport building you've got probably more fun in the car less chance that the driver nods off you know it's a long trip and they're having a

01:08:08 - 01:08:59

holiday cuz they're all caring about their money they're they're serving the mission even if they're not necessarily doing the predominant function which is I'm driving exactly and like that's the goal the goal is death told down and if that means all right there's a few extra dollars going out of the business for that guess what it's a business you figure out how to plug that hole and you figure out how to make that back to keep the mission alive interesting I would

01:08:34 - 01:09:30

even say like when when a weakness is exposed like that and a business lean into it so I don't know if you ever saw that that campaign from Rolex um where they were taking photos of fake Rolexes and they put them on billboards and they said even the fake gives you the feeling you know so like how can you yeah so how can you like Leverage that as as a part of the campaign cuz story in and of itself is really funny not that you want to encourage everyone in your fan base to do this but like even as a metric

01:09:02 - 01:10:00

perspective like I can imagine in the boardroom trying to pitch um you know Partnerships it it inflates the fact that the app's being used more it has more time invested so like it's a win for you because you get more data to say more hours used in the in the app well for sure and like at the end of the day is an advertising business like it it's not false you've now got four people who need to bank those trips those four people are watching ads getting served ads by advertisers so like everyone's

01:09:31 - 01:10:27

winning they're getting paid driver's safe they're safe advertisers are happy we're happy like it's yeah it's a win-win win win win so when you're looking at these insights these criticisms um these tickets people are complaining they're emailing you they go on full black belt carrying on you and they're complaining about what you guys are what you guys suck at and how dare a corporation you know you know take money from them for speeding for 3 seconds so so so when when you're looking at all

01:09:59 - 01:10:55

this data how do you calculate okay let's prioritize these criticisms like how do you how do you make sure you're not getting distracted with the wrong criticisms yeah I'd love to have an answer for you on this and and I think people watching this right now need to realize there's not a recipe to everything like like when you're building this business it's moving so quick that it's like these I might be in between doing things and I see four bits of feedback come through and I remember like oh I've seen

01:10:27 - 01:11:28

that four times in the last couple of days and I'll you know Josh what's going on with this it's not like you know at 9:00 a.m. to 10 10:00 a.m. it's fine problems with this part of the app it's not like look at 40 calculate the top five there's no there's no recipe no and like business people on potties and business things will say that there's all these answers to things and it's it's structured this way it's not that's a [ __ ] like a lot of it you are

01:10:57 - 01:11:49

moving at the speed of [ __ ] light and you are figuring these things out as you go and you're grabbing bits of info and things are sticking and and now it's like you know I'm fortunate enough to be able to start to step out the business a bit where I can look at more of it on the field but I have Josh where I'll be like hey I've noticed this problem what's happening with it and then Josh is usually on top of the support team cuz we've just upgraded our support team and upgrading it further and he'll just

01:11:24 - 01:12:21

be like Yep this happened already on it by putting this build in like he'll on top of it it sounds like you quite gut Le so so then big time always have been so then how do you define being gut Le because a lot of people have different interpretations of what the gut is I I tend to have a belief that the gut is a collection of subconscious experiences where you're like I've seen this before red flag or I've seen this before I need to prioritize this or how do you gauge whether your gut is actually right or

01:11:52 - 01:12:53

not the gut the gut will tell me if it's right or not but I think having partners is a really big one like vetting out your ideas like hey I got a hunch what do you think they're like I had the same hunch spot on so we'll we'll go like if it's a big gut instinct you know change of a business it's like's whiteboard session let's go let's put this down does it make sense yeah it actually does like I think diving into the gut thing is so complex cuz I would love to know like deep down like truly

01:12:23 - 01:13:08

where do those answers come from I think it's um it isn't a collection of experiences it's probably a collection of like things that have gone well and things that have gone poorly cuz I imagine when you jump into a new industry your gut reads probably terrible right you might not have enough data points for your gut to be right or wrong you might be a good gauge of like hey this guy's a bit of a snake I don't want to spend time with them versus like my gut is ABS easy to build it's like

01:12:46 - 01:13:47

well actually no that's an incorrect gut check I I don't think you read that deep got like like whole business idea out of out of the blue but hey like you could say to a certain degree Rick you know is the founder of my drive hero early on he outside of being passionate on wanting to make a change there was so many false starts and trials and tribulations where he still was like nah this is right and he's never never broken that like you've always seen he's backed himself that it

01:13:16 - 01:14:09

will happen and then obviously we all met and we've then turned it into reality and he's like something was pushing me there was it gut was it something else but and and for the listeners if you're interested in I guess hearing more about Rick's story uh we'll put the link to that episode where you guys you guys went deep into his story and for anyone that wants context go check out that episode apologies for the background um I want to come back to the app before before we go too deep in

01:13:42 - 01:14:46

into more of the I guess um I guess the story part of the brand which I think we've covered well which is what what value do you think apps now serve in the marketplace if we're if we're looking at the current climate do you think that there's do you think that the the chances of of an app succeeding are decreasing yeah cuz it's flooded but it's convenience that's I think that is everything right now is a convenience outside of obviously your Tik toks and stuff but so you have media you have

01:14:15 - 01:15:18

entertainment I just feel like if your app isn't making someone's life more convenient right now Uber Eats like food delivered to me going great like I don't have to mood do you forecast any challenges coming up for apps and the near future with you know if you look at the Z of Technology everyone's talking about artificial intelligence and AGI you know artificial general intelligence and then you see self-driving cars and technolog is just accelerating at lightning speed at this point do do you

01:14:46 - 01:15:43

guys have conversations around like we predict these to be the biggest challenges for our business in the next 5 to 10 years um not so not that advanced only because a lot of our demographic a lot of the my drive hero Community are everyday people you know might be paycheck to paycheck looking for that extra money so when we start to talk about like driver driver like driverless cars and stuff they're pretty expensive and again if we have a driverless car you can still have my drive here like it's still going to work

01:15:15 - 01:16:30

serves a mission right it's still going to work um but no I don't think I'm worried about any of that everything we do to minimize risk is around the riseing cost of living so for us it's like we we dropped our premium from $14.99 a month and 99 a year all the way down to $333 for the annual so was $39.95 and we did $499 for the monthly for our first six months we recently just upped it to $799 and 5990 which brought it brought that back to $4.99 and it was again like that is so

01:15:52 - 01:16:50

affordable cuz we want people to have the option if they want the less friction and they have the opportunity to make that back great big win but we've I'm building this business right now to go how can I monetize this without really needing the everyday individual because you're starting to see it everywhere even like I play a lot of golf there's a couple of golf courses near me that were just once in pristine condition and you can get on member guest it's dropped and apparently their

01:16:21 - 01:17:16

membership's dropped by like 50% yeah so even like people that were spending 2 and a half Grand on a golf membership they're looking at their finances now going maybe I can't afford that golf membership anymore so if you continue looking like what are people cutting out as well like I need to think about that in my business if we're too expensive well no one's going to subscribe which doesn't help grow which doesn't help the mission so I think the biggest not fear but problem the biggest thing I'm

01:16:49 - 01:17:50

constantly always looking at is that rising cost of living how much spare money do people actually have is is it affordable otherwise yeah there's some stats that came out recently and these are quite concerning and it was like you know the 60s and 70s um were an era where you know I think someone's basic income from like a good job about 30% of that income would go toward Essentials yeah then they would spend another you know 30 40% on like once and then they would squirrel away the rest and and

01:17:19 - 01:18:19

invest it um if if they were the type to do that or just spend it all on boats and cool holidays and stuff whereas right now people are spending about 70 to 76% of their income on Essentials and which is you're seeing this it's eroding people going on holidays uh it's eroding people you know buying those extra treats going to the movies subscribing to these extra subscription platforms like most people I know have one or two subscriptions um you know they don't have subscriptions to every platform

01:17:49 - 01:18:42

they're like oh I've watched everything on Netflix I'm gonna unsubscribe and I'm G to subscribe to Disney and watch some stuff over there and then come back to it so like when when we're seeing this shrinkage of like um spending in those categories it it it then creates a demand for people to try to find well how do I you know maximize my essentials more so would you say that there would be a rise potentially in apps as a category for more essential based stuff potentially because I'm seeing ones pop

01:18:15 - 01:19:09

up like around like you know get savings on your pet products and it just seems like there's a bit of a trend around essential spending well like you you think about um shop back have you have you shop back what's shopback see they part of shopback like we looked at shopback how could we incorporate something similar the reason why we didn't go down the route of copying shop shop back or doing anything similar was the the horse and the the car scenario so shopback if you're not using it like

01:18:43 - 01:19:39

we have no affiliation to them but I just think it's such an incredible business and incredible app so any time I book on booking.com go traveling for work need to stay in a hotel whatever on shop back so if I go to booking.com I can either go to booking.com the app and just book my hotel or I can go to shop back and get either 5% or 10% back in cash just by using their plugin because they have Partnerships with them to drive more sales so I go to shop back I click booking.com it then tracks via an

01:19:10 - 01:20:09

API bang brings up the booking.com app just the same way says your transactions about to be tracked I gone book my hotel bang and then within 120 days that cash just comes into your wallet and you put in your bank account right okay and obviously there their system would be you know hey booking.com we sent you a lead so give us a little bit they give it back to affiliate affiliate based stuff but like those sorts of business models similar to us you know we're super unique in our right I think shop

01:19:39 - 01:20:33

back extremely unique that shopback will just continue to go from strength to strength in my op cuz it's so you think that things that are convenient and things that like cuz I guess if you and you know if you look at Uber we had um a friend of mine on the podcast recently and he was saying that you know when you when you use an Uber you have this flawless experience you open the app you tap where you want to go you hit submit driver a car comes picks you up get in the car get out of the car you don't

01:20:07 - 01:20:54

have to do any transaction like you would with a taxi the car drives off you go into the restaurant but go to the restaurant you got to sit there and wait or you have to scan the QR code and you have to you know so so it's just people are expecting a frictionless experience so so apps that can kind of sit in that convenience space or in the essential spending space uh might have an opportunity right now in today's climate you know it's it's so important in business to pay attention to what I call

01:20:30 - 01:21:29

the Z guys like what's happening what's happening in the economy what's happening in politics what's happening with Trends where is people's attention going and I think if you start to look at you know what's what's the climate or the weather of of the world of business because politics affects business love to hate it the economy and people's predicament affects you know um business like look at golf courses you know dropping in um in in subscriptions this year we are like really focusing now

01:20:59 - 01:21:52

that we've rounded out the model and the the just the sticking rate we know it's working it's how much more can we can we make it more addictive like yeah at the end of the day if you're addicted to driving safer like that's an excellent addiction we want every great justification I love your framework cuz you're like no matter what we do it's all in the good cause to help it is like at the for whatever reason you as a person are choosing to do it but the outcome is safer roads um I'll get into

01:21:26 - 01:22:24

some statistics about the increase on that but I just want to get back Cam said to me about a year ago oh you guys should get a widget right and Uber did it recently have you seen um you seen that widget now on like you get an Uber you might be on your lock screen you got the little car like is tracking your thing like pops up on your um yeah just lock screen home screen any any of them and like I think just that in itself might seem ex sh out to cam the scen here Cam's ahead of the game she must

01:21:55 - 01:22:44

must have spoke to someone at Uber but that that little widget there I think to some people might seem quite insignificant but I think that is so powerful like you can just go I am halfway my trip's halfway I'm halfway there oh I just I I love it I think it's just so and also like prps you to go in and and get your um dopamine hit from like cuz I guess like thinking about like video games I don't know if you've done much Mobile gaming I got stuck on Diablo Immortal for a long time I spent

01:22:20 - 01:23:06

too much money on that game but I remember like opening the app and then there's just red dots everywhere and you're like I get to kill the red dots I got to redeem this redeem that do this thing do the little thing over here and you just get addicted to the red dots and then I realized when I was playing Diablo Immortal I was just addicted to dot chasing same same thing with like pubg dots yeah I was opening pubg cuz me and my fiance we we um especially when we're away it's this cute thing that we

01:22:43 - 01:23:34

do we log on into our mobiles and we like mobile game together and we shoot people and um all the rest of it but like I just remember like opening it up and I think it's managed by 10cent Gaming which is like this Chinese app development company where really good at getting you addicted cuz you want to open the app you get that little dopamine hit from all the redemptions and then I was like why does this one game have like 84 Redemption things it's like you go through this Redemption thing and then behind that there's

01:23:08 - 01:24:17

another Redemption and you're like is this just modern gambling dude cuz I'm addicted and then I had to uninstall these apps cuz I was like I'm just addicted to dot chasing I'm not actually playing these games anymore teu while we're on that talking about apps talking about businesses talking about convenience talking about price the games they have in there on like you've unlocked these credits click this got buy these seven things to unlock this and it takes you on this journey granted that app to me

01:23:42 - 01:24:25

feels like way too much going on sometimes it's almost like at a point where you know they're doing it and you're like I see what you're doing but I'm going to go along for it cuz I remember Christo made he he gestured an insult towards me he's like dude you're accessory game game kind of sucks and I was like oh okay like offense taken so I remember just playing on this for a few months and I was like I got to get some accessories and you know get a cool watch or some rings or stuff so I went

01:24:04 - 01:24:55

on the team I was like let me check it out I was like oh that's a cool ring add to cut and it's like a little window pops up and it's like spin the roulette wheel or whatever it is I'm like spin the wheel it's like you've earned $74 I'm like wow I just have any cool rings I can buy I'm like Chris I'm going to have the best accessory game went down a rabbit hole and I added like man probably 40 rings to my C like it's only 80 bucks so I went from a $5 spend to

01:24:29 - 01:25:32

like an $80 spend and then this bag of Rings shows up to my house and Ellie's like why do you have all these rings I'm like te and the comment and she's like she's like ly went on there and bought way too many beauty products and we bonded um but dude that platform is scary like it it my brain was just running on dopamine using that app the I'm so glad I'm not in like an Ecom game where I have products that are on teu cuz if you go and search it now on Google it's just every ads teu for like

01:25:00 - 01:25:55

first 20 on that that left and right slider like I think if I open my phone now I don't have it but like every time I open my phone teu is there it's like hey it's unbelievable like I've St it away from I used it once I bought 40 rings I'm off it yeah it's it's scary like but what if you okay let's unpack this like if you were to say okay yeah it's terrifying yeah they're taking advantage people what can we learn from an app like te cuz obviously in the world where app development is kind of

01:25:28 - 01:26:35

on the decline these guys have come out of nowhere they're going toe-to-toe with Amazon they purely engineered their platform on on on dopamine and adrenaline what what can we learn from that I don't know if it's app I don't know if the the story is in app as much as it is in marketing and and being in front of everyone's face cuz like the app's okay like in like I don't find it visually that appealing I think it's very just it's almost like Doss in a way like I just it's I don't find it that

01:26:01 - 01:27:02

slick the gambling part of it pretty smart that whole gamification dopamine hit is but it's the marketing it's like they're everywhere they're in they're almost like you go into every other app and their programmatic banners everywhere in every app they're on every part of Google like you'll what do you think of their slogan I always think of you and I read I don't know what billionaire oo I know and it's so true because so good cuz like that was one of the first such the

01:26:32 - 01:27:20

first time I read it I said to myself I wonder what D would think of that that's so good I didn't know I know how I missed there I felt like a billionaire man when my ring showed up I was like damn look at me I'm rich I only spent 80 bucks look at all these rigs it's that's the thing it's like people are like they're fitting out the whole kitchens and they're getting all these things and they SP bucks totally leaning into like the they're like we know we're an

01:26:56 - 01:27:56

addictive platform this is basically a casino it it is and they're just leaning into it it is yeah well dude um you know so when it comes to like what you're developing here with the apps it sounds like you're cooking something up in the background there around is it around the essential convenience space can you tell me that much it's not so well yes everything we do now filters down into that but it's it's about how we can bring families l plers p plers all of this all of their

01:27:26 - 01:28:29

safety interesting back through I'm trying to reverse engineer what you're a very gamified way that again leads to more cash more cash more earnings interesting I'm excited for you man yeah that's pumped um okay so with all of the stuff that you're developing with these apps and these um you know these epic missions you're on to increase road safety and save lives how do you want to be remembered I said it before the most loyal person when when I'm done me I just wanted to be known as the most

01:27:58 - 01:28:51

loyal person just I can see your Tombstone most loyal person loyal person like it just a true legend and a good friend I I've said that from the day I was the day I was born I remember saying that to people as a kid teenager it's just all I've ever cared about and that's what we always loved about you guys is like when whenever we we started working together was like man these guys genuinely want to help people yeah just genuine relentlessly loyal is something I say you'll see it on my Cub profile me

01:28:24 - 01:29:40

Rick and Josh we say it a lot relentlessly everything so it's relentlessly respectful relentlessly loyal and being relentless is also great in many other forms but relentlessly loyal is it like never unwe the no amount of money no amount of anything could could stop me from being loyal I love that Goosebumps what's a quote or a mantra that you've carried with you on this entire Journey that you wished everyone listening to this would immediately Implement wow a quote or a mantra I'm going to I hate to repeat

01:29:06 - 01:30:04

because I've already said it half an hour ago but time is your biggest adversary Vu TR go one like it's so cliche and I know it sounds but that has played on my mind so much and close behind is going to be you with the founders getting their own way well what's your interpretation of that like unpack that a little further how do you how do you on board that if we go cuz we've spoken about the time piece a lot let's go Founders get in there in their own way when you're building something

01:29:35 - 01:30:27

when you spent a significant amount of money on something when you were the one who convinced investors shareholders business partners that it was the right thing to turn around and say it was wrong takes a [ __ ] ton of spine like it's it's hard it's a lot harder than people think you know there's money people's Money's been sunk into that to make that mistake mistaken to turn around and go I may have got in my own way there I was just still going down this path instead of going hey there

01:30:01 - 01:31:15

might have been a whole new road we didn't even think to go down mind the pun um to be able to stop get out of body look in let the world turn once that's that's Founders getting in their own way getting out of their own way yeah you you would think that as a as a Founder that you need to be this bulletproof per you know character that's that's that's got it all together and you know I I I tend to find that the founders that have the ability to stop and go I'm out of my

01:30:38 - 01:31:42

depth here yeah I'm going to bring someone else in I'm going to consult I'm going to find others that can contribute to my problem rather than being stubborn that um I can figure it out myself the the most successful Founders I've met tend to be the most collaborative and the most aware that they themselves cannot solve the issue yep and they might even have a hunch but they're like let me bring some people in that are really good at this to see what the experts think for sure and there's also

01:31:10 - 01:32:02

a timing piece behind that like it'd be really nice to always be able to do that but when you're really early on in a in your project and in your business sometimes you don't have the money the resources to be able to do that so there's this element of I have a really good friend who's about to buy a business and he's he is an absolute killer he's a gun but he doesn't fully know it yet and he always thinks there's someone out there that has the answer and I always say to him I don't think

01:31:36 - 01:32:36

you realize but you have it you just need to trust that voice and not want to hear it from someone someone else but what you're saying is 100% right back into of last year we got to the point with my drive hero where I said to to Josh Rick we need to join Cub obviously all members of Cub cuz it's time to get around people who are 10 years ahead of where we are now it's almost like we were in our pond we became the big fish in our pond let's go be the small fish in a in a way bigger

01:32:06 - 01:33:05

Pond let's get people around us who can already see the problems cuz up until this point we paid for problems now I want to pay for people not problems so that's the theme of this year is like you said transparency I'm going full transparent there's no corporate sheath here I'll tell anyone anyone anything about how hard this journey is and I won't be afraid to do it and two bring people onto the business and essentially give away portions of this business to the right people to ensure we go to that

01:32:36 - 01:33:32

next level and Beyond yeah it's almost like you guys were like we'd rather own a uh a smaller Slice on a much bigger pizza oh way better by partnering with others and I've been a a member of Cub as well and you know um we don't get paid for plugging C but they're great uh it's a great business Network here in Australia but what what happens I think when you spend time with people that are much further on their Journey than you you start to realize that they figured out a few

01:33:03 - 01:33:53

tricks or tropes or ways of thinking that you're not yet adopting and one which I picked up on recently was you should track the financials of everything what's the profitability of each product in each category that we have in our business like what's the profitability of a logo and a website and a brand and a naming system or whatever we're building and and up until recently I was like well we know we're profitable there's margins there's money at the end of the month cool like who

01:33:29 - 01:34:13

cares that much but when we start to scrutinize each one it's like hey can we actually tweak this up a little bit can we make more profit margin here and I've always had this Trope where I'm like I don't want to think about profit and be that capitalist guy that's constantly stressing about money but when you start to apply some kind of math and some kind of metric to it you can identify problems in your business way earlier yeah and you can do a much better job at making everyone's life easier yeah for

01:33:51 - 01:34:54

sure and you just got a CFO recently mentioned I asked an advisor um this question I said when you got a CFO did you realize how [ __ ] you were at tracking the finances or you know what did you learn and he's like good question it wasn't that I realized I was [ __ ] I realized how slow I was oh so he's like what I would take me 3 days to pump out to get data on my business to make a decision or think of a new idea some my CFO could doing three hours so he's collapsing time frames so rather

01:34:22 - 01:35:12

than stressing about a problem for too exactly we solved it in a few hours move on next problem might take 3 weeks for him to do it on his own but instead he's invested the money into that CFO that's pumping that out in three days yeah cuz if you can collapse your timelines around a problem then you can solve them way faster and get it way ahead of them like when we hired a CFO he collapsed a few issues that we had and I was like right well I just need to get out there and start making more sales like

01:34:47 - 01:35:36

immediately and then you know rather than spending six weeks to come to that conclusion he did it in a half a day yeah yeah so good but watching there is a time when you can do that you don't start a business and get to have that overhead just sitting sitting every month coming off if you don't have the problems to solve well you got to find that sweet spot you don't want to over engineer 100 and and um and moved so slow that nothing happens you you don't want to under engineer be so naive that

01:35:11 - 01:36:14

you're running into too many problems um dude when you wake up in the morning what gets you fired up caffeine do you have do you have something that's a bit of a trick that gets you gets you going I I'll always pretty much put music on in the first 20 minutes um and I'll pretty much have music on most most of my time go meetings no I'll change up my music goes through everything from R&B to techno to sco to like doesn't change but music I love music more than anything and

01:35:43 - 01:36:44

nothing gets me in the zone elevates your mood gets blood yeah like yeah I'll just have my put my airpods in usually within the first 20 minutes bang straight into it I I do something similar and and uh I've been listening to a lot of like um like retro um house music love it yeah it's been good fun I the whole morning routine thing I'm I'm not one of those people that is you get I hate mornings more than anything I'm a night hour the day goes on my energy is just building like a big Boeing 747 like

01:36:14 - 01:37:22

I am soaring gy every 5 5:00 in the afternoon Jim and I am just I'm like yeah I'm starting to really take off go 7 8 9 10 p.m. 11: I'm like yeah I'm hit my straps now here we go I'm like a Bezos I'm a slow starter in the morning same um never never liked it never had my whole just even my mom said since I was born just super slow in in the morning just a slow boot up I watch a heaper um Matthew Walker on like huberman podcast he does all the sleep studies and the amount of

01:36:47 - 01:37:41

stuff you learn about your Cadian Rhythm and how like it's set for you so like if your Cadian is essentially your body's meant to be going to bed at 1 and then you try going to bed at like 9:00 at night and your body's better getting up at 9: but you're trying to get up at 6:00 in the morning you're going to feel pretty crap and it's kind of already set for you by the podcast I've listened to I've just figured out not to fight it these days so I'll pretty much go to bed most most

01:37:14 - 01:38:12

nights around 1 1:30 in the morning and my body will just wake up pretty much roughly the same time every day at about 8:35 between 8:35 and 9 yeah and that's when I'm like I can just feel everything's like perfect if I go to bed a bit later if I try and go to bed early it doesn't work I'll just lay there um but it works good in this industry in the tech world you got developers overseas you got people overseas working and it's like you're it's take advantage of it yeah take advantage of it

01:37:42 - 01:38:46

and last thing is what's a door right now in in the world of business that you're trying to kick in um to take your business to the next level uh Advisory Board like building a really good Advisory Board of absolute Killers with experience that share the same values that I could comfortably just have a beer with and chat about life same me Rick and Josh three things we said no interest having a board of people that we wouldn't get along with day-to-day world we don't want those people around

01:38:15 - 01:39:16

our business um so for me that's a whole new world like bringing on people of that experience to have a board and have proper board meetings like that's that's brand new yeah it's a very different world and and one I've looked at recently for a few of our clients and you can get it wrong pretty easily um so yeah I'm just going through my black book in my head there's a few introductions I could probably make for you guys oh cool appreciate that that'd be great a statistic I did want to talk

01:38:46 - 01:39:45

about we haven't SP yeah sh share a couple stats before we close man yeah yeah there's so we essentially at the moment are in what we call tier three of our safety scoring uh essentially how much leniency we're giving to certain lever on your speeding do we give people a little bit of time to notice their problem and back off and come back down obviously we've started at tier one and we going up to tier 2 so it gets a little bit uh harder and harder as the time goes to the point there's no

01:39:15 - 01:40:29

leniency but the leniency is also to counteract any sort of technological error that's in place right now we're in our tier 2 it's pretty from June when we were a point at about 32% of people would score a 100% safety score as of last week 78% of people are scoring a 100% safety score in six months we have overd doubled people's safe driving like 100% not someone progressing from a 20 to a 25 not someone progressing from a 30 that's crazy that's now granted their overall

01:39:54 - 01:40:55

scores would be Progressive if you're looking at the graph it's like this when we're looking at like again this year I am bringing I'm going to bring a data scientist on board to really look at how many accidents are we truly avoiding in my drive era cuz I think when we met last time we're doing a million k a month we're doing 4 and a half million a week how do how are you roughly doing the math on that like obviously there's discrepancy and a bit of a warning label here like this isn't perfect accurate

01:40:24 - 01:41:27

but how do you how do you guys generally gauge the metric like a million miles equals what what we we've never uh in regards to what are you asking so like how do you calculate like the amount of potential um accidents through kilometers we have we haven't yet so we've never really like sat there and gone we you know my drive her has saved 100 accidents we haven't done you you can um it's not been something yet we've really again invested money to cuz I've always said I don't want to be a false

01:40:55 - 01:41:49

Label Company I've seen companies in the states that have similar driver safety stuff no nowhere near to level of ours and they will like make these claims that they've saved 25 lives and I'm like unless I'm it's 100% accurate I'm not going to go on Advertiser we're not that business but that statistic there is the one that when you say how do you get up in the morning and are you pumped when you [ __ ] look at that and you go how many people did we save and again we're

01:41:23 - 01:42:26

at now 4 million k 4 and a half million k a week and that's we're at 2 million about 45 days ago we're at 2 million k a week we'll probably be a 10 million k a week in the next 60 days less probably 40 at this rate when you take that safety score increase and again we're going to make it a little bit tighter so that way people can keep striving to be safer to the point there's not one bit of buffer right now to see see that jump to 77% of our community are hit hundreds like

01:41:56 - 01:42:55

that's is that because of the the direct correlation to the wallet it's the de is it's cash this is beautiful man because you're you're giving people money they're driving safer and that's four and a half million kilometers of people being a bit more conscious even if it's half as much more conscious about am I driving the speed limit y am I taking Corners carefully y who's in the car with me y yeah am I returning home to my LEL ones yeah not rush whether that's

01:42:25 - 01:43:19

driven by money or otherwise the fact is people are driving safer yep that's all we care about and it's working and it's going to continue to work I'm looking forward to being back on it here again in 18 months time and having an actual dat set of how many lives we saved I want to be able to send stuff out to people to go well done you were one of the users that saved one life this year or 0.1 of a life like when you don't have blood you get that I want to have that metric going out to people I want

01:42:53 - 01:43:44

people to get the real life like YouTube you get a million subscribers my drive here you get how many lives saved like something that you can put up interesting yeah yeah sending plaes out to your to your drop drivers would that be that' be cool man sick I want to see that damn well Blake thank you so much big love for me and the team really proud of what you're doing out there and um yeah you're making Road safer for people man something to be proud of I appreciate it thanks for having me yo my name is Dane

01:43:18 - 01:44:19

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